Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla" or "The Rumble In The Jungle," It's "The Reunion At Wrigley!"
Do you remember that supercharged night back in 1999 when former Cub manager Jim Lefebvre, then manager of the Brewers, returned to Wrigley Field for the first time as skipper of another club, in a much anticipated showdown with Jim Riggleman?
I don't either.
But Johnnie B. Baker, Jr., is no Jim Lefebvre, and Lou Piniella is no Jim Riggleman. These guys are managerial heavyweights, and as much as Baker and Piniella claim there is nothing special about Baker's return to Wrigley beside the fact that both the Reds and Cubs will be trying to get a leg up on an NL Central rival, we all know much, much better.
Here, then, is a comparison to help you distinguish the combatants:
| THE TALE OF THE TAPE |
||
| Dusty Baker | Lou Piniella |
|
| Age | 58 | 64 |
| Ht. | 6-2 | 6-2 |
| Wt. | Way more than 187 lbs. |
Way, WAY more than 198 lbs. |
| Playing Record |
19 yrs., .278 BA, 242 HR |
18 yrs., .291 BA, 101 HR |
| Managerial Record |
15 yrs., 1168-1048 (.527) 3 times NL Mgr of the Year 3 division titles 1 NL Pennant |
21 yrs., 1611-1502 (.518) 2 times AL Mgr of the Year 5 division titles 1 World Series |
| Record as Cubs Manager | 4 yrs., 322-326, .492 |
2 yrs., 92-82, .529 |
| High Point |
Almost reaching '03 World Series |
??? |
| Low Point |
Almost reaching '03 World Series | ??? |
| Endearing Quirk |
Toothpick-chewing |
Base-throwing |
| Commonly Used Noun |
"Dude" |
"Fellas" |
| In His Corner |
Chris Speier Dick Pole Darren Baker |
Matt Sinatro |
| When He's On The Defensive |
Brings Darren into post-game press conferences |
Gets loud and sarcastic |
| Quote | "My name is Dusty. It's not Messiah." |
"What the hell do you think isn't working? You see the damn game!" |
____________________________
If you liked this article, consider supporting us during TCR's April Pledge Drive.
#1 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla" or "The Rumble In The J
I remember the Lou quote. What was it, his 10th or 11th game as manager and you already got the feeling the honeymoon was over between him and the local sports media.
That was awesome to see after years of a manager who, if you didn't know any better, looked like he didn't care.
- Great post, btw... very funny.
__________________________Ryno
http://wolf-report.blogspot.com
#3 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla" or "The Rumble In The J
Thanks. Yes, the eruption came after his 9th game (4/13/07), when the Cubs dropped to 3-6. Here's the box:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN200704130.shtml
#2 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla" or "The Rumble In The J
So far the Angel Pagan face-off between Charlie and the Big Lowitsky is tilting pretty heavily towards Charlie.
Angel Pagan is looking pretty good so far but there's a lotta season left.
__________________________Let's hug it out, bitch.
#11 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla" or "The Rumble In The J
I had a face-off over Angel Pagan?
__________________________Ranting my "assinine" "socialist drivel" on TCR since 2003.
#18 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla" or "The Rumble In The J
Oh... and if you really believe that Pagan is going to maintain a 159 OPS+, I have a bridge to sell you.
__________________________Ranting my "assinine" "socialist drivel" on TCR since 2003.
#19 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla" or "The Rumble In The J
Is it in New York? I hear they've got good ball players there!
__________________________Let's hug it out, bitch.
#26 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla" or "The Rumble In The J
Yea... it is called the Pagan Bridge. It is is Queens somewhere.
And they do have good baseball players in New York. And good Angels. And good Pagans.
But Angel Pagan is not not one of the good baseball players.
__________________________Ranting my "assinine" "socialist drivel" on TCR since 2003.
#44 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla" or "The Rumble In The J
Yeah, that OPS+ is not likely to last. But I still suspect that Pagan trade will look dumb, if only because the guys we get will turn out to be absolutely nothing and Pagan will turn out to be roughly the equivalent of Reed Johnson. Roughly.
Ps. When I saw that a "face off" I was involved in was referenced I realized that I need a better moniker. "Charlie" is just totally over-matched by "The Big Lowitski."
#4 from ESPN
from ESPN
After tossing six more scoreless innings in Class-A Monday, 19-year old Korean right-hander Dae-Eun Rhee is now 3-0 with a 0.56 ERA. Rhee has good stuff and is advanced for his age. He's establishing himself as one of the Cubs' top pitching prospects.
A.Phil - this guy good then?
#5 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla"
I would disagree with the low point of Dusty Baker. I would say it would be everything from the Met series at the end of '04 until he was fired.
#7 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla"
Just to be factual, Dusty was not fired.
__________________________Fire Hendry!!!
#8 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla"
lol
That's just manny being manny.
__________________________Ryno
http://wolf-report.blogspot.com
#13 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla"
before Dusty was told his services were no longer required by this organization.
Fixed.
#45 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla"
How 'bout the entire '06 season when the Cubs finished behind, uh, everybody?
Or how 'bout the press conference when he talked about putting Matt Murton in a platoon with Freddy "Boom Boom" Bynum? Or how 'bout the week or two when he actually did put Matt Murton in a platoon with Fast Freddy "Boom Boom" Bynum?
#6 Somewhere there should be a
Somewhere there should be a mention about allowing your starters to throw until their arm sockets pop out, contrasted with Lou's ominous visit to the mound when Dempster was on the verge of blowing an early season game in the last innings last year.
#33 Re: Somewhere there should be a
number of starters in entire managerial career sent to surgery: 1, mark prior.
...and that wasn't solely his work nor can it be placed directly on him.
go figure.
#34 Re: Somewhere there should be a
Tell Mariotti that so he'll shut up.
__________________________Voting for non-Americans since 2008.
#36 Re: Somewhere there should be a
hell, who doesn't spout it?
it's his rep, deserved or not. public perception owns the statement, true or not.
he's got a hell of a rep. for not playing kids that's pretty unfounded based on 1- what those "wasted kids" ended up doing 2- how other managers who don't have that tag do the same thing but get a pass (bobby cox, for instance...he's played a lot of kids, but look at what j.shur. had to take away from him for that to happen).
and while people love to talk about dusty and kids...dusty and pitchers...no one wants to talk about how dusty has given a lot of young pitchers chances who HAVE gone on to have long careers.
#35 Re: Somewhere there should be a
I don't care to get into this one today...but Kerry had some surgery too.
Livan, Russ Ortiz, Jason Schmidt...not the same pitchers they once were. Clement had some surgery eventually too.
Who's fault? whatever...
some articles of people willing to do the research.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/dusty-ba...
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63038
#37 Re: Somewhere there should be a
i wouldnt give you livan, ortiz, or schmidt, myself...wood, no.
btw, having guys like livan and ortiz around isnt gonna help anyone's arguement about pitch counts seeing as they're guys who are built for that kinda work.
also those guys pitched for years after leaving SF and hey, those new/bright/non-dusty managers sure used them as hard or harder...for years.
no, i dont think kerry wood throwing an extra 5-10 pitches here and there did more damage to his arm that wasn't already inherently there.
#38 Re: Somewhere there should be a
well maybe they'd get injured anyway, maybe they wouldn't of if someone showed some restraint early in their careers. Is it Dusty's fault? probably not...could be though.
Definitively claiming Dusty isn't at fault is as equally absurd as claiming that he is...
best to err on the side of caution though with young pitchers...no one can argue that Dusty did that.
#39 To further clarify
it's probably got everything to do with the luck of the draw, but I'll take four pitchers making 30+ starts last year and Lou pulling guys early, over keeping them in over 120+ and injuries year after year.
it just seems smarter...
#43 I particularly remember this gem
Where Mark Prior, just comming back from his 2nd injury shutdown of the season. Was painfully to watch, circa 2003 Bartman game.Made to go 130 plus at a point where the cubs needed a Roadmap to find a playoff race. Whether it was direct correlation or just a random occurance. Dusty had a moral obligation to keep his pitching healthy. And he forgot to do it..... Dude.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN200...
__________________________Rooting for Laundry since 1987
#40 apologies to Livan
thought he K'd more guys early in his career, but I was mistaken. Just a huge loss in velocity, but rather consistent career when you look at the numbers.
I was just throwing a few names out there, I really don't think Dusty is any different than 90% of the managers out there.
#41 Hello, Jim Riggleman
Everyone knows Dusty was calling Riggs from his SF dugout to tell him to keep Wood in games to achieve BS K records.
__________________________I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me- hst
#9 Jeff Weaver is a Brewer
http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2008/04/...
#10 Re: Dusty
Manny is technically correct. However, when your contract runs out and you're not asked back (and Dusty apparently asked for a one-year "final chance" deal), it's a matter of semantics at that point.
__________________________Voting for non-Americans since 2008.
#12 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla"
CUBNUT: Thanks for this. However, I really think you could have done a bit more with Dusty's - ahem - Bench Coach while here: : "Dick Pole"
Who is the largest, Dick Pole, Matt Sinatro, or Antonio Alfonseco?
__________________________Disappointed by "Cubbery" since 1966
#15 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla"
#14 Paul Sullivan's Revenge
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cs-080413-dus...
Sullivan, clearly trying to get back at Lou for ditching some press conferences which means he actually has to think to write an article, takes a look at some of the "fiction" behind Dusty....
Kidding around...pretty good piece although just relying on players quotes isn't a fair analysis. But at least we know the players don't blame Dusty...
#17 Re: Paul Sullivan's Revenge
Or were they just being "professional"?
#21 Re: Paul Sullivan's Revenge
It's a good question. If I'm paid a lot of money to do a high end job by a company and media comes sniffing around looking for dirt on a member of the management team no longer employed and if I want to make sure my value doesn't decrease significantly, I sure as hell don't talk smack.
This is an era of huge contracts, agents, and corporatism in MLB. I think people forget that when they assume a manager is beloved because no one has anything bad to say about him on the record.
__________________________Let's hug it out, bitch.
#23 Re: Paul Sullivan's Revenge
however anyone cares to try and spin this one, I think Dusty is well-respected and liked by most of his ballplayers.
Same goes for Lou...
the same does not go for Larry Bowa or Ken Macha though.
#24 Re: Paul Sullivan's Revenge
Rob G... you let me have my fun. It's much more cathartic to blame '06 on Dusty.
__________________________Ryno
http://wolf-report.blogspot.com
#27 Re: Paul Sullivan's Revenge
Yeah, whatever Dusty's faults are, his players tend to love him.
#20 Re: Paul Sullivan's Revenge
I lost respect for Theriot for this quote: "Neifi was a great player, and a proven veteran, a guy that did a lot of good things for a long time."
That might be taking "professional" too far.
#22 Re: Paul Sullivan's Revenge
How professional is it to be high during an interview?
__________________________Let's hug it out, bitch.
#25 Re: Paul Sullivan's Revenge
The truth will come out later that Theriot was actually talking about Neifi's poker-playing abilities.
__________________________Ryno
http://wolf-report.blogspot.com
#46 Re: Paul Sullivan's Revenge
Who is Theriot allowed to talk smack about? Slap-hitters should compliment everybody until they win an MVP. Then they can say what they want.
#16 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla" or "The Rumble In The J
More Tale of the Tape:
Pet Player:
Dusty: Neifi!
Lou: The Riot!
Lineup strategy:
Dusty: Speed and contact in the 2 spot; OBP need not apply
Lou: Whoever the fuck is hitting, gets to play
Thoughts on rookie position players:
Dusty: Vermin
Lou: If they can hit, they can play
Thought on rookie pitchers:
Dusty: Those arms have a lot mileage, let's use it all up
Lou: Throw a fucking strike already!
162 game strategy
Dusty: It's a long season, pace yourself
Lou: A win today is one less win later on (except Game 1 of the NLCS)
#28 In the meantime...
Whack-A-Dusty
http://www.pictogame.com/play/game/GMJEY2kk6885_sm...
or Whack-A-Lou
http://www.pictogame.com/play/game/qBv9xrrmBAxQ_lo...
or this crappy baseball game where you can't throw a strike
http://www.shockwave.com/gamelanding/fullcountbase...
yea Internets...
#30 Re: In the meantime...
It is freakin' impossible to throw a strike in that Shockwave game. Holy Cow, now I know how Rich Hill feels.
__________________________Back from my tour of Europe, Scandinavia, and the sub-continent
#29 Weather forecast...
#31 Anyone see Hendry and Zell stopping by to chat w/ us...
http://www.beantownwest.com/2008/04/bloggers_leave...
#42 Re: Anyone see Hendry and Zell stopping by to chat w/ us...
Not the same, but Hendry was on ESPN 1000 for an hour today at Morton's Steakhouse for the appropriately named(Hello Manny!) "Lunch with a Legend". :-)
It's part of a series on ESPN1000, each month they have a Chicago Sports "legend" on the air to take questions from Mark Silverman and former Bear tackling dummy Tom Waddle.
After the people stop gorging themselves with meat and various cheeses they can ask said legend questions.
I didn't hear the whole show today, but here is the podcast-
http://stations.espn.go.com/stations/espnradio1000...
__________________________I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me- hst
#32 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla" or "The Rumble In The J
what, no love for CPat's return to Wrigley?
__________________________Chill, it's the offseason. How many days to the Winter Meetings?
#47 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla" or "The Rumble In The J
Well, who are we going to match C-Pat up against, Pie, Reed, or Fukudome? I think most of us would like to avoid anymore C-Pat to Pie comparisons, no?
Actually, I just think most of us who liked C-Pat (though even I was disappointed when he never learned to take a walk and when batting average plumetted) would like to pretend he wasn't booed out of town. And I think most of Cubdom, regardless of whether they liked C-Pat from 2004 onward or not, would like to forget that can't-miss prospects can end up valueless.
#48 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla" or "The Rumble In The J
I hope Dempster drills Dusty in the head with the first pitch. Screw Dusty.
The best outcome for this series would be for the Cubs to sweep Cincy, and everytime we score a run we run over in front of the Reds dugout and moon Dusty's retarded ass.
#49 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla" or "The Rumble In The J
Somebody sounds a little angry....
__________________________JoePepitone
#50 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla" or "The Rumble In The J
Heads up to out of towners who aren't aware of the weather in Chicago. It's pretty windy today. Tom Skilling, WGN weatherman, this morning predicted sustained winds of 25-30mph tonight blowing out to dead center and 35-42mph tomorrow night. I don't think the wind is blowing that hard out where I live but I'm a long way from the park. We could see some high scoring games tonight and tomorrow.
#51 Re: Bigger Than "The Thrilla In Manilla" or "The Rumble In The J
Whoa. That's some wind.
Thanks for the info.
__________________________Quit arguing about non-baseball stuff yall.
#52 Re: Spelling!
Great post indeed, but I'm officially protesting the spelling of Manila. See my signature.
__________________________That's Manila with an "L"