The Ides of April
Déjà Vu all over again, Alfonso? For the second time in two years during mid April, Cubs star left fielder Alsonso Soriano injured a leg.
Last year he missed just a week from a mild left hamstring strain on April 16th. He returned to the lineup by April 22nd but was limited in his running as well as his outfield play for a few weeks after that injury.
Here was the immediate reaction to last April's injury on cubs.com:
...his status is day-to-day. The center fielder was injured when he dove trying to catch Clay Hensley's single with one out and a runner at second in the fifth. "I don't like to be hurt," Soriano said. "I like to play every day. We'll see how I feel tomorrow."
This isn't to be confused with his more significant right quadriceps strain last August 6th. I vividly remember seeing Soriano pull up lame after rounding 2nd base against the Mets in the game Tom Glavine got his 300th win. Third base coach Mike Quade helped Alfonso off the field that evening. Soriano returned to action by August 28th.
In last night's game vs the Reds, while making the third out in the top of the 1st inning by catching a flyball from Ken Griffey Jr. and doing his signature hop to make the catch, Soriano once again came up lame. He needed to use CF Felix Pie to limp off the field. In the bottom of the inning he was replaced by Mike Fontenot with Mark DeRosa taking his spot in LF.
Again cubs.com says (Carrie Muskat must have a macro key for her Word application regarding this stuff. Ironically, when she hits the F7 key, the macro spits out something about being day-to-day):
Cubs outfielder Alfonso Soriano had to leave Tuesday's game after the top of the first inning with a strained right calf. His status was day-to-day.
This time the preliminary diagnosis is a strained right calf. To recap the anatomy, the quadriceps is the major muscle in the front of the thigh. The hamstrings are the muscles behind the thigh. The larger muscles that make up the calf are the gastrocnemius which is more superficial and the deeper soleus which blend together as they go toward the lower portion of the leg until they connect with the achilles tendon. They are responsible for pushoff in running activity. Just like any other muscle injury they are graded by extent of injury, rarely need surgery and usually take from 2-6 weeks to heal.They shipped Soriano off for an MRI Tuesday night so the results will be available in the morning. Hearing Lou Piniella on the postgame interview, he didn't sound optimistic with the most recent comp injury being Phillie OF Shane Victorino who was put on the 15 day DL the day after his calf strain on Saturday. Matt Murton, Jake Fox or Eric Patterson...please check your answering machines.
It could be worse. The Ides of April ruined the 2006 Season on April 19th when Scott Eyre fielded a Raphael Furcal bunt. The sooner they get this month over with the safer I will feel.
UPDATE: It's official. Eric Patterson gets the call-up as Fonzie goes on the 15 day DL. Stay tuned for the Patterson brothers reunion deathmatch tonight.
#1 Re: The Ides of April
I'll just say it:
If Soriano is going to the DL...
Barry Lamar Bonds
Sammy Peralta Sosa
Discuss
__________________________"I will ruin this house with my anger!" - Master Shake
#3 Re: The Ides of April
We couldn't do Bonds because Carrie Muskat doesn't have an MS Word macro tied to "will miss several games owing to obligations in federal court."
Great write-up, Doc.
I'm glad we still have Murton and I hope he's the guy who gets the call. DeRosa cannot and should not be in the outfield.
#5 Re: The Ides of April
We'll know if Barry is on his way to the Cub's if we see these things getting installed around the clubhouse:
http://www.gokulamhealthcare.com/images/products/N...
__________________________"Gasp... You used Ghostbusters for evil!" ~ Liz Lemon
#2 Re: The Ides of April
Discuss
Nope.
__________________________The Mexican homeboy.
#4 Re: The Ides of April
Pretty sure we caught "gastrocnemius" in Vegas last year... little penicillin clears that right up.
__________________________"If you're not a Ted Head, you should be" - God
#12 Re: The Ides of April
TLFC,
Can Ted play left? He sure as hell can't pitch but maybe we can get something out of that big contract.
#6 Re: The Ides of April
Bonds-no
Sammy-no
April 2005-Nomar goes down
__________________________April 2006-Dlee goes down
April 2007- Prior is shut down
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me- hst
#7 Re: The Ides of April
Any idea how long it will be before the results of the MRI are known?
#8 Re: The Ides of April
Pinella is already saying Soriano could be "out a while"
Good thing we kept Murton.
#9 Re: The Ides of April
Maybe it's just me, but it always seems like this type of injury could only happen to the Cubs. Could another option for Lou be to play Pie in CF and move Reed over to LF?
#10 Re: The Ides of April
It's just you. This type of injury happens to every team in the league.
__________________________That's Manila with an "L"
#24 Re: The Ides of April
No this injury does happen when running out ground outs, stretching extra base hits, or chasing fly balls into gaps.
Hopping like a retarted rabbit for a routine fly ball and getting injured is a new one.
__________________________I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me- hst
#11 Re: The Ides of April
RE: Discuss
I'd rather have Murton than either one of the them. I'm actually kind of happy for the big friendly red-head. Go get em Orange Guy.
#21 Re: The Ides of April
I really hope Murt gets the call. Soriano's contract is already an albatross and we have 7 more years of the guy. Not only will he likely never again get close to 46 HRs, but we'll be lucky to get 15 SBs out of him. Along with his requisite 150+ ugly Ks we've got ourselves Sammy Sosa circa 2004-05, without the bad attitude but with an untradeable contract.
We know Murt can hit ML pitching. He might never develop huge power, and he doesn't have blazing speed, but we need to keep him since "Glass Leg" Soriano can't stay healthy.
#39 Re: The Ides of April
I like Murt alot, but lets get a little grip on reality here.
Soriano who "can't stay healthy" played in 135 games last year, and that was the fewest games he'd played basically his entire major league career. Now he might be out for a couple weeks -not a couple of months- maybe a couple of weeks. If he's made of glass, then you can certainly say the same thing about ARam, and about 50% of the league.
And Soriano's contract is hardly an albatross at this point. When Torii Hunter and Andrew Jones are making $18 million a year as Free Agents, Soriano's contract starts to look very affordable.
__________________________Not affiliated with some guy named Al or any website with a similar name
#49 Re: The Ides of April
You're right. I definitely overreacted a bit, and obviously Soriano is a better player than Murton. I think the frustration over all these leg injuries and the poor start is catching up to me.
I really dont want this happen, but Soriano is turning into one of those players that I hate to watch. A) He doesn't belong at leadoff but somehow he's convinced that's the only spot in the lineup he can produce at, B) He can't steal bases anymore, which was a huge reason why he got the big contract (Power + Speed = Big Contract), C) He swings at TERRIBLE pitches and strikes out constantly, D) He gets injured doing idiotic things like hopping unnecessarily for fly balls.
He seems like a generally good guy, and I'm sure a hot week or two will cure me temporarily of my disdain for him, but I just can't see how this will look like a good signing in years 5-8 (and I hope it doesn't turn horrible even sooner than that).
To summarize my thoughts:
Soriano > Murton
Murton > Most LF bench options
It's damn good we didn't trade Murton, because who knows how many more leg injuries Soriano's got in store for us.
#23 Re: The Ides of April
lol @ TCR and it's man-crush on a mediocre AAAA player.
__________________________"Gasp... You used Ghostbusters for evil!" ~ Liz Lemon
#13 Re: The Ides of April
Wait someone wants to play Felix "Oh shit its another curve" Pie AND put Reed Johnson in LF? Wow just wow.
#16 Re: The Ides of April
#14 Re: The Ides of April
top IOwa Cubs hitters right now...
Bobby Scales: 304/360/652
Murton 294/442/294
Andre Torres 292/393/542
Jake Fox 261/261/565
...
...
...
Epat 222/282/444
#15 Re: The Ides of April
Based on Lou's comments at the end of ST, I think it's quite obvious Murton gets called up to replace Sori.
__________________________That's Manila with an "L"
#17 Re: The Ides of April
Ohh and Rich Hill's next start will not be pushed back now. Which means Hill's starts wont be skipped if he was the #5 guy.
See, nothing more than Lou doing his version of motivation.
#18 Re: The Ides of April
Lou is a motivational juggler in this circus of a team.
__________________________That's Manila with an "L"
#19 Re: The Ides of April
if it is not matt
murton now it will
never be matt murton
#20 Re: The Ides of April
"Wait someone wants to play Felix "Oh shit its another curve" Pie AND put Reed Johnson in LF? Wow just wow."
I wasn't suggesting that should be what the club should do here, but was it a viable option. And what if the club had succeeded in finding Murton a new home before the end of ST? You don't think they had considered what their options would be in that case if Soriano had gone down with another injury?
#22 Re: The Ides of April
"Soriano's contract is already an albatross"
Climb back off the ledge Doug.
__________________________All right, all right, all right....
#52 Re: The Ides of April
Duly noted, and see my response above to Bleeding Blue.
#25 Re: The Ides of April
I wonder if the Cub's could make an offer good enough to net David DeJesus from KC.
Pie, Murt, and Hart for DD? Fuck yea, I'd do it.
__________________________"Gasp... You used Ghostbusters for evil!" ~ Liz Lemon
#26 Re: The Ides of April
"we've got ourselves Sammy Sosa circa 2004-05, without the bad attitude but with an untradeable contract."
The biggest Myth Cubs fans readily believe. Based on nothing more than Sosa is an Ass-Hole because he couldnt keep hitting 60 HR's a year.
Sosa is just as nice and fun loving as Soriano. Soriano will likely end up with the label of a "bad apple" by time he leaves Chicago as well.
2002, 2003 people were calling Sosa a bum because he hit a shitty 49 and 40 HR's. I never saw a player take so much crap from a fan base for doing nothing more than being human.
Ohh but it was because he sucked with RISP those years. Yeah i guess a 1.000 OPS sucks.
#54 Re: The Ides of April
You can get away with a lot when you're hitting 60+ HRs a year. I don't know Sosa personally, and I expect neither do you, but it seems that anecdotally most of his teammates thought he was a prick.
#70 Re: The Ides of April
Be interestign to see who smashes Fonzie's boom box when he leaves.
#27 Re: The Ides of April
DeJesus is Murton with a slightly better glove, less power, and way more injuries. How exactly is he worth Murton/Pie/Hart?
#28 Re: The Ides of April
Oh no you di-int!
Murton is a 4-A player who will be really good in the outfield... for the Iowa Cubs. David DeJesus on the other hand is the perfect mold of a baseball player and would instantly give the Cub's that big-time feel. CF... lefty... awesome... he has it all.
__________________________"Gasp... You used Ghostbusters for evil!" ~ Liz Lemon
#29 Re: The Ides of April
This is satire, right?
#30 Re: The Ides of April
lol... NO! Okay, maybe I'm playing up my DeJesus enthusiasm a little bit, but he would be a great fit for the team and doesn't he have family on the coaching staff, too?
And yes, I think Dejesus is far better than Murton.
__________________________"Gasp... You used Ghostbusters for evil!" ~ Liz Lemon
#37 Re: The Ides of April
Careers, majors:
DeJesus: .282/.358/.414 OPS+: 102
Murton: .296/.365/.455 OPS+: 108
Careers, minors:
DeJesus: .301/.383/.464
Murton: .312/.383/.467
DeJesus is a lefty.
Murton is two years younger.
So how is DeJesus better than Murton?
And even more, how the hell is DeJesus worth Murton, Pie, and Hart?
Seriously... I know you hate Murton, but David DeJesus? Seriously?
__________________________Antagonizing TCR posters with my my "assinine" "socialist drivel" and my signatures since 2003.
#44 Re: The Ides of April
I would put $5 virtual dollars on the fact that DeJesus will out hit Murton in the bigs this year... that is if Murt sees any playing time.
__________________________"Gasp... You used Ghostbusters for evil!" ~ Liz Lemon
#46 Re: The Ides of April
I would take that bet.
But even so... lets say that DeJesus is slightly better, which I don't agree with. But for the sake of argument, lets say it is true.
Do you really think that DeJesus is that much better than Murton that you would also give away Pie and Hart for him?
__________________________Antagonizing TCR posters with my my "assinine" "socialist drivel" and my signatures since 2003.
#32 Re: The Ides of April
I think that is a haiku that's gone through the Cubs PR department.
__________________________That's Manila with an "L"
#31 Re: The Ides of April
I didn't realize that a player who has hit .297 in a full season and has a career average of .295 with good OBP and acceptable slugging qualified as a AAAA player. Just because he's not a big-name star doesn't make him worthless. Isn't a AAAA player a guy who performs well-to-great in AAA but stinks it up in the majors? Like Jason DuBois.
Assuming Murton gets the call (regardless of current numbers in AAA, he's the best overall option), how does this change the Cubs top of the order? Theriot to the leadoff spot? Does Fukudome make a move to the #2 spot?
What if the Cubs call up Patterson in search of a lefty-hitting leadoff option? I'm not saying he's ready to produce at the major league level, but if you're looking for prototypical leadoff guys, E-Patt is probably at the top of the list.
#33 Re: The Ides of April
"Based on nothing more than Sosa is an Ass-Hole because he couldnt keep hitting 60 HR's a year."
No, based on said asshole acting like the prima donna he is and blasting his farkin' boom box 24/7, despite repeated requests from teammates to take it outside. Then said asshole bails on the team at the end of the season, sulking and whining all the way out of the ballpark. Ernie Banks or Andre Dawson, he ain't.
#45 Re: The Ides of April
How come nobody seems to remember the extra inning night game at Wrigley against the Expos earlier in the 2004 season when Sammy went home during the game? Sammy was hurt but could pinch hit (I think it was his back that kept him out of the lineup for a few days, but I don't remember all of it now), but the game went extra innings and Dusty started looking for Sammy to pinch hit and they found out he left the park several innings earlier. That's a great teammate.
When he left the park during a game at the end of the season it was the second time that year he had done it.
I also want to ad that he was the sniper shooting at Hillary Clinton.
#34 way off topic
Anyone remember the details of when Glenallen Hill stepped out of the box, wasn't granted time by the ump, then stepped in as the pitch was on the way and got a hit?
Details, as in who they were playing, whether the hit was a single or a double, etc. Thanks.
__________________________Voting for non-Americans since 2008.
#35 Re: The Ides of April
The GREAT BOOM BOX SCANDAL!!!! OMG!!!
Thats all you got? No pushing old ladies down? No not hustling on the field?
During that great 2004 meltdown everyone on that club was acting like a self-important jerk than worrying about winning games, except one person....Sammy Sosa. He went out played hard everyday and kept his mouth shut. People forget that. Who was the bad apple again?
Sure as HELL wasn't Sammy Sosa, but he was the one who took all the blame. I have always believed he walked out at the end of that season because he was sick of how that team acted (and how it played down the stretch). Sosa NEVER EVER took his personal baggage onto the field and let it get to him unlike the scrubs of the 2004 team.
Sosa went out every day and gave it 100%....not many on the 2004 team can say they did that. Not many during his entire time with the team can say that. I will take a whole team of Sosa's who play their ass off everyday.
#38 Re: The Ides of April
You're conveniently forgetting the whole lineup controversy with Sosa in '04. And while you dismiss the boom box thing, it's probably a good indicator of how his teammates (you know, the ones who were actually around him constantly during this time, unlike you or I) felt about his attitude and hustle.
But either way, Sosa's downfall was his waning ability on the field. Cubs fans will put up with bad attitude/behavior (they forgave him for corking his bat, for Christ's sake), but the guy was steadily declining in just about every offensive category from 2002-2004 (and back to 2000 if you set aside '01 as an outlier), and that was very obvious by the end of his tenure here.
#140 Re: The Ides of April
Dude, there are about ten seasons in all of baseball history that wouldn't represent declines from Sammy's '98-99 seasons. And one of them is the one you would have us ignore (Sammy '01).
__________________________djchi
#36 Re: The Ides of April
Mike is right in that there was always a faction of fans that hated Sosa pre-boombox, pre-2004 meltown, pre-cork, etc.
I never understood it then, and I don't now.
__________________________Voting for non-Americans since 2008.
#40 Re: The Ides of April
"Sosa went out every day and gave it 100%....not many on the 2004 team can say they did that..."
And I for one would like to add that Sammy Sosa is a great American, having stormed the beaches at Normandy and helping his fellow comrades - in - arms at great peril to his boom - box.
"I have always believed he walked out at the end of that season because he was sick of how that team acted..."
Right - as usual, none of it was Sammy's fault. Not one iota, not his problem, it was everyone else, just doin' his job, always a team player, the rest of the team was dogging it all the time.
Your Sosa Man - Love is duly noted.
#41 Re: The Ides of April
So let me get this straight Vorare....Sosa's downfall was getting old? Wow, you just proved my entire point about Sammy Sosa and why people like you hated him.
If he wasnt a 60 HR machine, he was washed up.
And there was no lineup controversy. You the fans and Dusty started that crap. Sosa had a .933 OPS hitting in his normal spot at #3 in the lineup. .275 BA, .365 OBP. Sosa said he would like to remain in the spot he has batted virtually his entire career.
When he was moved out of that spot he had a .773 OPS in the #4 and a .824 OPS in the #5.
Like i said most of the Sosa hatred is based in myth, lies and bullshit.
#42 Change of Subject
Sorry to derail this lovely Sosa conversation, but I caught a little nugget from the Herald regarding lineup construction this morning.
If Pie does start hitting, Piniella said he'd like to move Pie up to second from eighth in the order and move shortstop Ryan Theriot down to eighth.
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=173590&src=15...
A great idea IF Felix wants to hit. Also, if a frog had wings, it wouldn't have to bump its ass on the ground all the time.
#50 Re: Change of Subject
There's nothing wrong with Pie that a few hundred ABs won't fix. It's been pretty obvious lately that he's been working on fouling off pitches that are low and away that he can't tell will be a ball or strike. His game winner was one of those kinds of pitches and he reached down and got it. He's still striking out a lot but that happens when you're trying to rework a kid's approach at the plate. Let him hit 8th for awhile, for christ's sake.
__________________________-- old and blue
#58 Re: Change of Subject
A few hundred?!?!? How many hundred? 200? 400? 800? One full season? Two full seasons? I'm a patient fellow and I'm willing to let him work through some problems for the next month or so. I've said that several times. Give him until the middle or end of May to try and get this thing figured out. He can still turn it around. But, we're now 230 AB's into his pro career and his OPS is right around 560. He hits straight ball very much. Curveball, not so good.
And you're telling me that you think it requires another few HUNDRED PA's to fix that? Come on, dude. That's never going to happen. We're not going throw this season away so Felix can strike out 40% of the time with a 339 OPS in 500 AB's. That's just having your priorities in the wrong order.
#75 Re: Change of Subject
maybe i'm wrong here but...Didn't the red sox do just that last year with Dustin Pedroia? And didn't it turn out great for them? I don't follow them that closely, but I recall announcers during the playoffs talking about how they gave him the entire year to work it out and he pulled thru. (they did mention though that because the sox were winning, it removed pressure to on management to find a new solution. they had the luxury to let him figure it out) 2 seasons is out of the question though. If he hasn't figure it out by the end of this season its time to either recognize we have a weak hitting but great defensive CF, or look elsewhere.
I for one could care less. There are no better choices (that the team will consider at any rate) than letting him play unless a big trade is made. A platoon will work nicely for him. He'll get lots of at bats without being a 100% liability to the team. Not only that, he plays fantastic defense which is a great thing.
Finally, whether he hits or not, he will not be the sole reason this team will lose the division. Bigger reasons right now will be Soriano batting leadoff and a starting pitching staff that looks clueless.
#79 Re: Change of Subject
In his first 200+ AB's a certain player was so bad he hit in the .220's with an OPS in the .500's and struck out over 30% of the time (pretty much what Pie is hitting now). If you were in charge, then this player would never have gotten a legitimate shot to work out his problems. Congratulations, you just prematurely ended the career of Alex Rodriguez.
While Pie may never turn out to be another A-Rod (or maybe he could; the point is we don't know), we should at least give him a season to find out what he is or is not.
__________________________That's Manila with an "L"
#90 Re: Change of Subject
Read it again. I didn't say bench him tomorrow. Or next week. For the second time in this thread, we still do have to give the kid 200 or 250 ABs or so to figure it out. If he doesn't get it, he's got to go down. Does he have anything to learn down there? Not really, but that would be a large enough sample to convince me that it isn't working for him right now. The 30 ABs he has right now isn't a big enough sample. 100 or 130 probably isn't either. If it doesn't happen this season, does that mean we need to dump him for a couple rosin bags and a bucket of BP balls? No it doesn't. We can still continue to let him progress and try it again in '09. He's still very young.
This isn't a development league. Wins and losses do count. This isn't AAA. This franchise's #1 priority is not cuddling its top prospect and nursing him along. It's to win baseball games. If Felix isn't going to hit, there's no point in playing him in the second half of this season (note: this season. 2008 only) in the middle of what ought to be a tight pennant race.
#91 Re: Change of Subject
ARod sucks. What's your point? :)
#43 Re: The Ides of April
...and why people like you hated him.
Nice strawman. Want to point to where I said I hated him? I wasn't sorry to see him go, but that isn't the same thing as hatred.
That said, I think you're very much looking at his tenure here through rose-colored glasses. There were contract issues, there were rumblings of trade demands, there were issues with his teammates. There was cheating. There was the "gladiator" BS in the face of his plummeting abilities. He left here on a bad note, and a lot of that was his own doing.
#96 Re: The Ides of April
Damn right the glasses are rose colored. He hit 500 home runs for our ballclub. That's a good player, not a bad one.
#47 Re: The Ides of April
Soriano hurt.
Murton gets some time in left.
Ward will play some, too.
#48 Re: The Ides of April
Sosa was selfish.
Corked his bat. Juiced his body?
Wished he'd gone sooner.
#51 Murton
If called up where should Murton hit?
__________________________That's great in practice, but how about in theory?
#53 Re: Murton
If called up where should Murton hit?
Second.
#55 Re: The Ides of April
Still hatin on Sosa because he grew old. Would you like to keep provin my point vorare? Because your doing an excellent job.
We get it Sosa sucks because he couldnt keep hitting 50-60 HR's. I guess doing it for 5 years straight (and then finishing up with 2 40+ HR seasons) wasnt enough.
Also people forget, and this goes the for lots of players in baseball. Sosa was paid for those fantastic seasons in his new contract. Because he was essentially underpaid. He wasn't being paid that large sum of money for the future.
I liked Sosa because he played hard, had a hall of fame worthy career, and never went out of his way to lose games to settle personal scores. If the biggest complaint is a bunch of self important pricks who couldnt carry a team if their life depended on it didnt like his radio, then who really cares.
Maybe if someone actually stepped up and carried some of the offensive load instead of worrying what song Sosa was playing they would have won more games.
#67 Re: The Ides of April
You can like Sosa as much as you want, I don't have a problem with that. But some of what you are aruging is a bit much. It's not like Sosa just had 20 less homers in 2002 and 2003; the rest of his stats dropped precipitously. I mean from 2001 to 2004 his batting average dropped 75 points!! He tailed off quite a bit towards the end of his career. I can respect what he did in his career, but I am in no way obligated to always feel he should be playing on the team. Many people, in 2004 especially, simply felt that the money could be spent better elsewhere and that the team might have been better without Sosa. We are perfectly in our right to think that, whatever his stats during the late 1990s were. I don't hate him and I'm greatful for what he did for the franchise, but I was not happy to see him come to the plate during the end of his tenure with the Cubs.
The idea that he was carrying the team is simply not true. His teammates did just fine. In 2004 Sosa was 5th on the team in runs, 6th in hits, 6th in doubles, 3rd in HRs, 4th in RBI, and the only starter he hit for a higher average than was Ramon Martinez. Lee, Ramirez, Alou, and Patterson all had better seasons, and even the 2B tandem of Grudz and Walker outperformed Sosa. Paying $16 million for the 5-6th best offensive player on the team - who could not run, whose defense was not great, and who struck out nearly 30% of the time he batted - was simply seen by many fans as a waste. Let's not forget he hit .174 during the last 17 games of 2003. And he hit only .227 in September 2004. In the same period Ramirez hit .333 with 9 HRs. Alou hit .342 with 20 RBI!! I don't think they were worrying too much about Sosa's boombox to hit.
#100 Re: The Ides of April
Not to get bitchy, but picking on drop offs from 2001 is the cheapest attack against Sosa. Pick a player's career year, then pick a year after. Yes, there will be a drop off.
Your other points are pretty legit. It just peeves me when people talk about how his totals or percentages lowered from his best year ever.
#68 Re: The Ides of April
Still hatin on Sosa because he grew old. Would you like to keep provin my point vorare? Because your doing an excellent job.
Okay, I'm going to try small words and simple sentences so you can understand this.
1. I don't hate Sammy Sosa.
2. Sammy Sosa was no longer able to play baseball well by the end of the 2004 season. (See: Baltimore, '05.)
3. Keeping a player because he used to be good is stupid.
#74 Re: The Ides of April
MikeC--
I never hated Sammy but I wasn't sorry to see him go by the time he left. I got tired of the missed cutoff throws from the outfield and his falling in love with the home run and his "showmanship" to the detriment of his hitting approach after 2001. Hitting 60 homers covers a lot of sins but when he's no longer hitting 60+, the sins became more glaring. By the time he left, I was just tired of him.
__________________________JoePepitone
#56 Re: The Ides of April
epat to be called up if sorry goes on dl, according to wscr
#57 Re: The Ides of April
I guess this means DeRosa to left and Fontenot at second.
__________________________That's great in practice, but how about in theory?
#62 Re: The Ides of April
WTF? Seriously?
Was that actually quoting a source? Or just the Score making stuff up again?
As I often ask, as the Score ever been right on a story that they broke first?
__________________________Antagonizing TCR posters with my my "assinine" "socialist drivel" and my signatures since 2003.
#59 Re: The Ides of April
Wow-
Epatt over Murton?
Don't know about that
Fbomb
Murton
dlee
aram
Dero
Soto
Pie
Theriot
If I had a vote.
__________________________I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me- hst
#60 Re: The Ides of April
Could mean DeRosa to LF and Epat to 2nd (and leadoff).
__________________________All right, all right, all right....
#61 Re: The Ides of April
That would get my vote. AZPhil is EPat's defense ready for every day play in the majors?
__________________________That's great in practice, but how about in theory?
#63 Re: The Ides of April
If it is EPat, I would be quite surprised of EPat moved into the starting lineup.
Would he really jump over Cedeno and Fontenot at 2b?
Doubtful.
__________________________Antagonizing TCR posters with my my "assinine" "socialist drivel" and my signatures since 2003.
#64 Re: The Ides of April
Paul Sullivan is also reporting that it's more likely to be Patterson than Murton.
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/spor...
#65 Re: The Ides of April
The Score may have gotten the E-Pat rumor from this Rotoworld write-up:
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playe...
Rotoworld got their information from this Tribune article:
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/spor...
After quickly scanning through the Sullivan article, I don't see anything concrete concerning E-Pat. Appears to be pure speculation at this point concerning an "infield prospect" after this statement concerning Murton:
It appears that the obvious choice to replace Soriano -- Matt Murton -- isn't the one on Jim Hendry's radar.
__________________________All right, all right, all right....
#72 Re: The Ides of April
Haha... Sullivan wants Fontenot to hit 5th.
And yea... it would seem that Sullivan's comments on EPat/Murton are more speculation than anything else.
__________________________Antagonizing TCR posters with my my "assinine" "socialist drivel" and my signatures since 2003.
#76 Re: The Ides of April
He hit the ball off the top of the centerfield wall yesterday!!! Doesn't that qualify him!?!?!?
And if the wind wasn't blowing in.....what? it was blowing out straight away center at 25 mph????.....nevermind.
__________________________I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me- hst
#66 Re: The Ides of April
If Soriano is a few weeks, I think it makes sense to bring up EPat & Murton (send Fontenot down--or out...I'm not impressed) and platoon the pair. EPat can do the flip/flops at 2B that arise with late inning pitcher changes, as well.
#69 Re: The Ides of April
I'm guessing if EPat does come up, he's going to be in LF, not 2B....because if I recall correctly he's a butcher in the infield.
#71 Re: The Ides of April
At least check, E-Pat had only been playing 2b in the minors this year.
__________________________Antagonizing TCR posters with my my "assinine" "socialist drivel" and my signatures since 2003.
#77 Re: The Ides of April
You are correct--only one start in CF this season and eight starts for E-Pat.
Both Fuld (.100/.217/.250) and E-Pat (.222/.282/.444) are off to slow starts, so Murton is the only one they could plausibly call up.
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#73 A Proper Soriano Haiku
If you're gonna haiku Soriano/Murton, make it a proper one that mentions the seasons..
'Tis Spring, watch him hop!
__________________________The blue-legged left fielder
Makes room for Orange.
Back from my tour of Europe, Scandinavia, and the sub-continent
#78 Re: Felix Pie
Ok...so his OPS sucks. He has has 203 AB's so far.
Please, I'm looking at you Wes, and I can't believe I am, we all know for a hitter in baseball, rhythm and timing, as well as self confidence are crucial to success. Pie has some playing time, several stretches last season of consistent playing time. This is true. He was then demoted, yanked in and out of the line-up, he had basically half a month of play in April, and the month of June, and that's about it. This season, he went 3 for 11, had a couple of hitless games, and now he's in and out of the lineup like a yo-yo.
Sitting against some lefties? Sure...but geez...by "getting a few hundred at-bat's," maybe that'd be playing consistently, not sporadically.
#80 Re: The Ides of April
Wasn't A-Rod 19?
#82 Re: A-Rod
The point is not to compare A-Rod with Pie. The point is not to make premature judgments and give young players enough time to show what they got.
__________________________That's Manila with an "L"
#81 Re: The Ides of April
A-Rod also hit 36 HR, drove in 123 runs, hit. 358, slugged .631 and had a .414 OBP in his first full season.
Are you suggesting Pie could even approach that?
__________________________Voting for non-Americans since 2008.
#83 Re: The Ides of April
I think we all see your point, but I don't think it was the best example you could've used.
__________________________Voting for non-Americans since 2008.
#85 Re: The Ides of April
Actually it was a damn good example, cos like I said the point is not to compare players, but to show that they should get enough AB's before making a premature evaluation on what the rest of their career holds.
__________________________That's Manila with an "L"
#87 Re: The Ides of April
No... it really isn't a good example.
Pie and ARod are and were nothing alike. ARod was a can't miss prospect who was 19 years old.
Pie isn't and wasn't a can't miss prospect.
They are not anything alike, and in turn, it doesn't make sense to use their experiences as such.
__________________________Antagonizing TCR posters with my my "assinine" "socialist drivel" and my signatures since 2003.
#89 Re: The Ides of April
Barry Bonds hit in the .220's his first 400 AB's.
Sammy Sosa hit in the .230's his first 1000 AB's.
Gary Sheffield hit in the .240s. his first 400 AB's.
You want more examples? Go look them up. By the way, there is no such thing as a "can't miss prospect". That's what they called Billy Beane when he came up as a player.
__________________________That's Manila with an "L"
#92 Re: The Ides of April
First of all, I don't feel like doing the research, but one's ability is related to more than batting average.
For example... Pedroia, who was mentioned earlier, had a batting average below .200 through April last year, but was still able to show the patience to have an obp over .300.
Second, I never said that Pie was a bust. My biggest issue with this conversation is that you think comparing a 19 year old Alex Rodriguez (first pick in the draft, very, very few holes, etc) to Felix Pie is somehow relevant.
Third, I am not sure what point you are trying to prove by giving a few batting averages of the early careers' of superstars. Can Pie turn out to be a good baseball player? Absolutely... and I still think that can and will happen.
__________________________Antagonizing TCR posters with my my "assinine" "socialist drivel" and my signatures since 2003.
#94 Re: The Ides of April
Because the whole point is not to compare any of the mentioned players to each other, but to show that you cannot pre-judge a players career based on how badly he begins it. The point is just to let the guy accumulate more AB's so that he has a chance to show what he can or can't do.
__________________________That's Manila with an "L"
#98 Re: The Ides of April
I don't disagree that you need to let a player play long enough before you can make a judgment.
But how long do you let a struggling player hurt your team's chances of winning?
That is the bigger issue to me. The Cubs are built to win, and win now. Can they really afford to allow Pie to play through his struggles?
__________________________Antagonizing TCR posters with my my "assinine" "socialist drivel" and my signatures since 2003.
#104 Re: The Ides of April
But like was mentioned earlier, Boston did the same thing to the struggling Pedroia on a team that was built to win now. And win it all they did. We should give Pie till the all-star break at least.
__________________________That's Manila with an "L"
#113 Re: The Ides of April
But again, as I mentioned earlier, Pedroia was showing other things at the plate in that first month. His OBP was 126 points higher than his ba, and he only had six strikeouts (in 65 pa's).
Pie hasn't shown anything. And already has 10 strikeouts in just 26 plate appearances.
Again, you can't just look at batting average. Pie has not shown much of any ability that would help the Cubs offensively.
__________________________Antagonizing TCR posters with my my "assinine" "socialist drivel" and my signatures since 2003.
#119 Re: The Ides of April
I'm not sure that I follow most of this. Exactly how long was Pedroia struggling? He was hitting over .300 already by the end of May and never looked back. Pie's current average is lower than Pedroia's ever was during the year. Pedroia basically had the last two weeks of April where his BA sufferred. That's it. His OBP was only under .300 for 2 days the ENTIRE SEASON. Did you know it took Pedroia until June 5th to get is 10th strike out - Pie's current total in only 26 ABs?
Also, put Pie in a lineup hitting 9th in the AL with the likes of Youkilis, Ramirez, Lowell, Ortiz, and I'd say play him too. The Red Sox were 16-8 in April last year, they could afford to let Pedroia ride out a couple of rough weeks. Especially since their alternative was Alex Cora, career average of .245.
We have one less hitter in our lineup, don't have as potent of a lineup otherwise, Soriano was struggling and is now injured, and we have Reed Johnson with a career OBP of .344.
#84 Re: The Ides of April
I agree that Pie should be given a little more time, but keep in mind that A-Rod had 645 minor league at bats. Pie has had 2,190.
#88 Re: The Ides of April
He's done pretty well in those 2190 at bats, too. My main motivation for wanting to see him play more at this point is that we could have gotten a lot for him in a trade awhile back. It's too late for getting real good value for him now, so play him for awhile. If after 300 ABs he sucks, throw in the towel and move on to plan X.
__________________________-- old and blue
#86 Re: The Ides of April
Of course you think it was a good example, it was your example.
A-Rod was also more of a sure thing as a prospect, so naturally they were going to be patient with him.
And by the way, I would be fine with just sticking Pie in CF and letting him succeed/fail (as painful as it is to watch him hit right now), so I don't disagree with your premise. I just think any comparison using A-Rod isn't that great, given the situation and the talent involved.
__________________________Voting for non-Americans since 2008.
#135 Re: The Ides of April
How about a comparison to Ryne Sandberg when he started with the Cubs? There was no hype for him in 1982 or 1983. He started one of those seasons really slow. Maybe it was 1982 because he led the club in outs at 494. Real horrible start actually. He ended up with a .260 - .270 avg. for the year because they let him play through it. The difference was that the team didn't really have high expectations that year, so it was probably easier to let him play through it.
OK last edit...he started the season batting 1 for 32 in 1982.
#93 Re: The Ides of April
BTW, fella's, the wind is INSANE in the Chicago area today, way stronger than yesterday. And it's blowing out again.