Game 17 Thread / Pirates @ Cubs (2 of 3)

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SP *Tom Gorzelanny SP Jason Marquis
  1-1, 6.75, 6 K, 11 BB
0-0, 5.23, 4 K, 6 BB
CF *Nate McLouth CF Reed Johnson
2B Freddy Sanchez SS Ryan Theriot
LF Jason Bay 1B Derrek Lee
1B *Adam LaRoche 3B Aramis Ramirez
RF Xavier Nady RF *Kosuke Fukudome
C #Ryan Doumit LF Mark DeRosa
3B Jose Bautista C Geovany Soto
SS Brian Bixler 2B Ronny Cedeno
*Tom Gorzelanny P *Jason Marquis











No kidding--starting pitchers' combined K:BB ratio this season is 1:1.7.

The Cubs go for five in a row this season against the Pirates and their eighth overall versus the Bucs dating back to last September.

Chicago-area native Gorzelanny was the starter in the game last week at Pittsburgh which the Cubs wound up winning 10-8 in 12 innings. The lefty was charged with the first 7 Cub runs and was gone by the middle of the third inning. He has made three career starts in Wrigley, however, and in two of them, he pitched a combined 15 innings and allowed just one run.

Marquis is coming off a so-so effort last Sunday at Philadelphia (2 runs, 4 hits allowed in 5 IP), though it was his first game back after a strep throat, so maybe it was more Herculean than I'm giving him credit for.

Miserable weather forecast for Chicago this afternoon.

Murton update: The Cubs officially announced the Murton recall and the E-Pat demotion. In addition to the Pirate lefties in the Cubs' immediate future, the Mets, Rockies, and Nats, the Cubs' next three opponents, are all southpaw-rich, which could create opportunities for the Redhead.

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OBP of .422 for the leadoff man. I can deal with that.

Looks like the Cubs farm system has picked up a nice little player in this McClouth fellah.

Looks to be an Easy win 11-1 in the 7th. I vote we play the Pirates every game :)

What's the word on Lee? Was he hurt or was Piniella just giving him a rest with the big lead?

I haven't been able to watch the game, but according to Yahoo's game notes:


Lou just said DLee was taken out because of "a little stiffness."

I'm watching. Bob and Len don't think so. They said Lou is trying to get D-Ward some at bats in the blowout. Speaking of which - Ward is now on the board with a 2-Run HR. Apparently he got tired of getting ragged on for grounding out to the right side...

Good to hear. Thanks Wisconsin.

Would love an update on Lee. Too bad for the blackout. As a west coast denizen, I get to watch the Cubs mainly on the weekend (they play while I'm at work mainly) at a bar w/ DirecTV or Extra Innings. The wife and I went down to our favorite watering hole for bloody marys and breakfast for the 10:05AM game, only to remember it gets blacked out because FOX and MLB suck ass....sweet.

Hey Rob, the new get up with the mobile phone redirecting broke something for me. My blackberry w/ OperaMini browser always gets a page not found error, while I can surf to just about anything else I desire. Any ideas? Used to work fine, and I actually liked loading the full main page with OperaMini's zoom features.

his neck still hurts

watching the reds lose in 10 innings to the brewers, and the little brennaman plus his color man are pretty baffled as to why dusty would double switch norris hopper into the 4th spot up in the bottom of the 10th when they're already down by two, when hatteberg is still on the bench.

would you rather have a lefty with some power facing gagne as the tying (or winning run) or little righty norris hopper?

doesn't matter, hopper ends the game in the on deck circle, brewers are now 4-0 in extras, all 10th inning wins.

but it's ok, bc CUBS WIN! and marquis looked great.

(rotoworld) David Weathers left Saturday's game in the 10th inning with an apparent elbow injury.

It didn't look good. Weathers clearly felt something in his elbow go while delivering a pitch that ended up well wide of home plate, and he signaled for the trainer immediately. Expect him to spend some time on the DL.

Some time on the DL? His age and an elbow injury? That is a career ender.

he had a "little stiffness in his neck"

--Lou Piniella postgame

Didn't show up until after I posted...check the 3 min difference in post time. Sorry.

Rajah Davis designated for assignment by the Giants apparently. An odd move.

link on latest results takes us to box score from friday, not saturday.

Sorry about that. Should be okay now.

I'm sure most people are still pretty checked-out on Ronny Cedeno, but I've been fairly impressed with him in his admittedly small sample size. I am slightly encouraged by the 3 BB to 2 K he has put up in 15 ABs so far.

If the scouts are correct, and his upside really is bigger than TheRiot's, maybe its not a bad time to see what we could get for TheRiot somewhere else...while he is hitting .302 and playing a solid SS. Of course, maybe the reverse is true, dump Ronny while he isn't completely reverting to his 2006 form.

Ronny looks like he's still got a hole in his swing up and in and he often swings at pitches that he shouldn't (and often makes contact), but overall his plate appearances have looked more deliberate and more patient. He certainly has more pop than Theriot and more range and a stronger if not very accurate arm at SS, but his success at the plate will likely depend on his ability to make consistent contact and take more walks. Theriot will have to either hit for a high average or see his walk rate increase dramatically to be valuable offensively. Cedeno, on the other hand, will only have to hit for a moderate average if he can increase his walk rate because he has more doubles power and will occasionally knock one out. Cedeno is also plenty fast enough to steal bases, maybe faster than Theriot, but he hasn't demonstrated the ability to steal often or at a high percentage yet. I like his upside a lot more than Theriot's because of the tools he has, but I'm not sure why he hasn't put it together yet and I've heard some discouraging reports on his attitude and personality--for what that's worth.

Ronny is almost 3.5 years younger than TheRiot. He is only 25, and could take some time to develop. He does have a similar number of ABs in the bigs as TheRiot. Not sure about TheRiot's development in comparison to Cedeno, but I recall he played through college (LSU?). Not to compare the two directly, but ARam learned a lot after he developed through his 20's. Took him until he was 26 or so to really cut down on his K rate, he had 100 one year w/ the Pirates. ARam came to the cubs when he was about 25, and it was just then that he really started to consistently take walks and lower his K rate. He turned into a much better player than his previous record, except for his one standout season with the Pirates, which might damage my argument a bit.

Either way, I think Cedeno is still *really* young for this game. I'd like to see the Cubs figure out a way to make him useful, or get some serious value for him. Not sure if TheRiot is the answer in the two-spot, but not sure Cedeno fits that bill either.

he had a "little stiffness in his neck"

I understand he took a Viagra last night and it got stuck in his throat....

Excellent points on Cedeno, and I said before the season started he could be the best SS on the roster. I think we should give him an extended look.

I LOVE Theriot on my bench, where his defensive versatiliy, speed, and ability to hit for contact are invaluable. But not in the lineup.

Wish we had a real shortstop, so we could put him back in that utility role.

I think Q-Ball is saying that Cedeno could be that "real shortstop" what would push Theriot back into the utility role, though I know many people would disagree. I myself am unsure.

I would think, though, that if/when Theriot stops hitting, Cedeno will get at least a little time to show what he can do. I liked the Aramis Ramirez comparison that someone made earlier. A-Ram didn't become a consistent hitter or fielder until 2004, and he was older than Cedeno is now. I'm not saying Cedeno will turn into the type of player A-Ram is--they have completely different bodies, swings, and I'm sure they think about the game differently--but it does show that calling someone a failure when they are so young would be a mistake. Heck, DeRosa didn't turn into a decent everyday player until 2006. Of course, he also wasn't given much of a shot to be a starter until 2006.

Anyone want to look into the crystal ball and predict whether Monday's game on ESPN is going to be blacked out in the Cubs blackout territory? Its on WCIU in Chicago so I think there is some hope.

The wife and I are going to be in town on Friday, May 16 and are hoping to take in the Pirates game. We're hoping to score some pretty close seats, but I thought I would check here before forking over to StubHub. Please write to markhaab at if you have seats you want to sell.


Jumbo, did you get my email?

Charlie, I made the ARam comparison, and I think its equally applicable to the situation Pie is in. Pie and Cedeno are VERY young, and still raw. We need to think about these kids who are on the cusp of the big leagues and understand that we aren't witnessing the zenith of their baseball ability right here. Its pretty easy to pan a lot of these guys for their "unintelligent" play, or the various holes in their swings. They are still a work in progress. Not everyone comes in like Pujols (still don't believe his age is real).

Pie is 23, Cedeno is 25, and Ramirez is almost 29. Ramirez was given almost 600 ABs of suckitude with the Pirates before his first really decent season in '01, with a huge regression in '02 before getting shipped mid-season to the Cubs in '03. We would all have given up on him here in the TCR threads well before he actually hit 36 HRs with a .951 OPS in '04.

A-Ram didn't become a consistent hitter or fielder until 2004

Ramirez came into his own as a hitter at age 23 in 2001, his first full year in the majors (158 games, 603 ABs). He hit .300/.350/.536 with 34 HRs and 112 RBI.

His stats were way down in 2002, but that was because of the ankle injury he suffered in April that year.

We may quibble over the definition of 'consistent,' but I wouldn't say he followed up his poor 2002 with a return in 2003, the year he came over to the Cubs. He hit an ominous .666 OPS in 375 ABs before the Pirates shipped him to the North Side. I would wager my car that people were bitching that '01 was an aberration at that point. I would also argue that few people, if any, were calling him a "consistent hitter."

I welcome your point of view, but I'd have to disagree with his emergence taking place anywhere other than the North Side.

I did and I contacted her. Thanks

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  • Hi Arizona Phil,

    Has there been any news on Oscar de la Cruz' health?

    Raisin101 34 min 5 sec ago view
  • bruh...

    crunch 1 hour 48 min ago view
  • O&B: Cease was apparently working on his off-speed pitches in his first & thrd innings, because in his second inning of work he just blew the D'backs away with high-velocity gas (that's when he hit 99-100 and struck out the side). 

    Arizona Phil 2 hours 7 min ago view
  • Wow, Lyin' CTSteve? He was just BEGGING for my endorsement last year!  Lame!

    Transmission 2 hours 12 min ago view
  • 1. I did not say the thing I insisted that Trans write down and attribute to me, or it was taken out of context.

    2. Trans and his "roast" (aka, a Salisbury steak TV dinner by Swanson) are very low energy.

    3. Make TCR great again.


    CTSteve 2 hours 18 min ago view
  • Yeah, I'm fine if I don't hear another one, furlong time.

    Transmission 2 hours 20 min ago view
  • nice recap, horrible game...i hope to never hear another horse pun/joke for at least a decade.

    crunch 2 hours 32 min ago view
  • Recap posted.  ~sigh~

    Transmission 2 hours 50 min ago view

    MY GAWD.

    crunch 3 hours 13 min ago view
  • Ok, fine. I'll do a recap.

    Transmission 6 hours 17 min ago view
  • Thanks for the post AZ. That's a huge attendance. Scouts must be excited about somebody.

    Would you say Cease's performance was a result of working on his change or was it just a bad outing? And isn't Ademan some ridiculous age, like 17 or something?What are your thoughts on him?

    Old and Blue 6 hours 25 min ago view
  • LOL and yes. No need to even be that formal, can just say "Trans, keep my name out of this abomination of a discussion."

    Transmission 8 hours 57 min ago view
  • Carrie Muskat Verified account
    [email protected]

    Shane Victorino was released. Will have more details later. He was on Iowa #Cubs roster

    QuietMan 9 hours 41 min ago view
  • *tumbleweeds*

    wonder if he was released to retire or to try to latch on with someone else...

    crunch 9 hours 43 min ago view
  • Tommy Birch [email protected] 4m4 minutes ago

    Shane Victorino's locker at Principal Park is cleared out. #Cubs #MiLB

    QuietMan 10 hours 6 min ago view
  • So, let me just make sure I understand... I could say something like the following, for example:

    ryno: Off the record, I think that play was literally worse than Hitler.


    Ryno 10 hours 15 min ago view