Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
Submitted by Rob G. on Sun, 05/11/2008 - 12:34pm
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| SP | Edgar Gonzalez | SP | Sean Gallagher |
| 1-2, 7.20, 11 K, 12 BB | 0-0, 4.50, 1 K, 1 BB | ||
| 2B | #Augie Ojeda | LF | Reed Johnson |
| LF | Eric Byrnes | SS | Ryan Theriot |
| CF | Chris Young | 1B | Derrek Lee |
| 1B | Conor Jackson | 3B | Aramis Ramirez |
| RF | Justin Upton | RF | *Kosuke Fukudome |
| SS | *Stephen Drew | C | Geovany Soto |
| 3B | Mark Reynolds | 2B | Mark DeRosa |
| C | *Miguel Montero | CF | *Felix Pie |
| P | Edgar Gonzalez | P | Sean Gallagher |
The weather is bleak enough in Chicago to force both managers to change their starting pitchers for the game. Instead of the Big Unit vs Big Z, it's going to be Gallagher vs. Gonzalez. That is, if they get this in. The radar map actually looks like it should clear up relatively soon.
Either way, Z will be pushed back tomorrow. Let's hope he still breaks out the pink shoes and pink batting gloves when he does pitch.
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#1 1965 highlights
"Jim Maloney just threw his 177th pitch of the game...."
#2 Re: 1965 highlights
I caught that, too. Incredible.
But what was Banks doing swinging at the first pitch? Maloney had walked 10 and went 3-1 on Williams in the previous at bat. Ernie, what were you thinking?
#3 Orioles News
Freddie Bynum named the starting shortstop, Alex Cintron just called up from AAA, and Brian Roberts is day-to-day with an injured foot.
#4 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
From Rotoworld:
Though Corey Patterson was supposed to be at the plate, David Ross batted out of order in the ninth inning of an 8-3 loss to the Mets on Sunday. What is this, Little League? Per MLB rules, Ross has to complete his at-bat to be ruled out, and the outcome of his at-bat is then discarded with no runners allowed to advance. The Mets allowed him to do so, and since he lined out to right there was little harm done. Ross was the batter listed in the order after Patterson, so he was forced to come back to the plate for his 'real' at-bat and Patterson was charged the out. Ross singled after returning to the batter's box. There's almost too many jokes here for us to enjoy. Corey Patterson making outs even when he's not at-bat is just one of them. As if their wasn't already overwhelming evidence that Dusty Baker is a horrible manager, this just adds more fuel to the fire.
#5 Re: Double-Switch Dusty
happens to the best of him...wait, nope, just the dumb ones...
#6 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!!!!
#7 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
i love a box score which reads:
wuertz 1.0 ip 3 batters faced
marmol (w, 1-0) 1.0 ip 3 batters faced
wood (s,7) 1.0 ip 3 batters faced
small sample size; let's hope they reproduce same frequently.
#8 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
anytime you can scratch Z, play Theriot, Pie, and Reed and still get a win is a good day indeed.
p.s. Good to see Kerry keep his head.
#9 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
Yeah, because it's a bad thing having the guy leading your team in batting average in the lineup.
#11 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
And he's 5th in OPS among starters, which isn't bad for a guy with no power. Now if he'd just never, ever steal I'd be very happy.
#10 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
Prior felt discomfort today. Isn't it time someone just take him out behind the shed and put him out of his misery? http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080510&c...
#39 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
3/44.
This is so 2005.
#42 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
Only Prior can call "discomfort" an injury. Heck taking a crap is discomfort but i never had to get MRI's for that or take a day off from that.
#12 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
Yeah, we are nearly 1/4 of the way through the season. Theriot is hitting .326 .400 .416. And he's already gone through a big slump, starting the season 8-36 (.222). The legions of Theriot bashers should at least acknowledge that he has been much better than expected.
#13 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
Well, I like Theriot, but we also have to acknowledge Fontenot did the same thing last year and hasn't done much since. Theriot probably isn't going to be great and is benefiting from a tremendously high BAbip right now. Still, I do think he has some talent and is better then a lot of other options we've had to endure here.
#18 Re:Well, I like Theriot, but we also have to acknowledge
no we don't.
#24 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
His BABIP is not tremendously high. He has a history of high BABIP, all through the minors.
This is a great, well-balanced article on him: http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/fantasy/article/...
#29 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
theriot is patient? what's he waiting on? patient with? we still in the minors here? walking 60 times in 600ab is patient? who's pitching tricky to him screwing around? who's pitching him to anything BUT contact most of the time?
i dont see him up there waiting on anything, personally....this "9% patience". i think its a pretty raw deal to give him a "patience" tag without even acknowledging his ability to adjust what's being thrown to him. he's a singles hitting contact hitter who's learned to use both fields when he was at one time highly dependent on RF. all they got to say is it's because he doesn't try to be a power hitter and he uses speed with contact hitting. the data is real, but the interpretation of it i don't like...it ignores a pretty major part of why his game works to begin with.
still, its just a fantasy baseball article...and if you're looking a .280+ hitting 30sb guy who's gonna get his runs, you got him there below market value.
#33 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
Ok, if they are pitching to contact as you say and he is getting walked 10% of the time, then that is pretty good. So either you are wrong and they aren't pitching to contact, or you are right, and he's patient. Also, he is seeing 3.70 pitches per plate appearance - what the hell more do you want?
And you dissing the article because it's a fantasy baseball article is a poor way to discredit its findings and conclusions. I think most teams - not just fantasy teams - would be happy with a shortstop who hits .280+ with 30 SB, scores a ton of runs, and plays solid defense. And the fact of the matter is he is doing a hell of a lot better than that right now - isn't he?
#34 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
i dont accept patience as a -edit- huge -edit- theriot attribute...esp. when we're talking 50-60 walks in 600abs, nor do i see it as remotely as important to his game as his ability to see the ball and adjust his swing.
1- i dont see him selecting anything, though i do see him not offering at junk often
2- more importantly, i dont see pitchers pitching him any way BUT for contact most of the time
i dont see him up there picking his situation and his hit...i see him up there taking what he's given and trying to do something with it.
i'm dissing the article cuz i dont like the way they went about attributing to why theriot's hitting. it seemed mailed in as hell.
and i like theriot, that's not the issue.
my issue with with their assumptions they derived from stats totally ignoring one the most important and skilled parts of his games. this guy is just a singles hitter...he needs all the skill he can be accredited with. this guy dont make his living the same way juan pierre does.
#35 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
Did you even read the article? The article was not about his patience. It's barely mentioned. Hell, the subheadings are - power, contact hitting and stolen bases. The article describes his extra base hits stemming from doubles and a few triples, discusses his high stolen base attempt rate and good success rate, and focuses on his approach of hitting line drives and ground balls with a good BABIP. Which article did you read?
#37 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
my points are pretty clear...
"While Theriot lacks power, his contact rates are always very good and he has a very good history of BABIPs. He manages to keep them good because he doesn't try to be something he isn't.
He isn't a power hitter, so he hits very few fly balls. Instead, he hits a lot of line drives—the most likely batted ball type to fall for a hit—and ground balls. Ground balls are more likely than fly balls to become hits to begin with, and Theriot can use his speed to beat out even more of them."
...and that's the ENTIRE contact hitting portion and is 1/2 redundant from the "power" part of the article. i covered it and i countered it. it was the main point of my issue with the article along with a few minor ones.
--edit--
also, since this was just an article about why you'd want him on your fantasy team i don't see much of an issue with it...but as far as why he's the hitter he is it's ignoring a pretty big part of his game.
#38 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
"He isn't a power hitter, so he hits very few fly balls. Instead, he hits a lot of line drives—the most likely batted ball type to fall for a hit—and ground balls."
that doesn't seem to be a bit rudamentary and taken for granted, btw?
he just chooses to hit line drives...and its because he doesn't have power?
1/2 of baseball isnt up there swinging for the fences, but it doesnt result in .280-.330 hitting.
there's more to how theriot became the hitter theriot is and it's a lot more to do with his skill of adjusting to what's being pitched to him rather than him deciding to juan pierre hits with his speed or not trying to be corey patterson.
it's just too simplistic view of a contact hitter.
#40 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
As if that thread didn't go on long enough, you answered your own post. Nice.
Rob, did I mention how much I love the threaded comments. Love them! [scroll....scroll....scroll].
#41 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
i already edited once and it was a separate thought, though related.
probably should have just added to the edit.
probably shouldnt have written this, too.
doh...
#45 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
Actually no, you are not being clear. Your first rant was about patience: "theriot is patient? what's he waiting on? patient with? we still in the minors here?" And now you are complaining about line drives vs. fly balls. At least I think.
The bottom line, as I read it, is that YOU think that Theriot's success is due to him adjusting to pitches. That's fine if that is your opinion. But, to echo your comments about the article, it's pretty obvious that every hitter is trying to adjust to pitches and that all good hitters succeed in doing so.
#46 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
i ranted on more than 1 thing...i thought the patience thing was covered and his hitting style was what you wanted to tackle.
it was presented to TCR as a representative and fair annalysis of him...i dont think it is. i think its rudimentary and some of the conclusions reached weak in nature.
theriot's stats are being studied as if he hit the game playing 1 way and stayed that way. it isnt the case.
i just simply do not think that article spells out anything about what theriot the hitter is other than the obvious...he hits singles and linedrives...i dont see any method of the analysis in that article that says he's different from any other contact hitter. there's generalities given for reasons of his success and i think it's a copout.
#47 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
If you refer to my original posting, I was merely pointing out the history of high BABIP for Theriot. I used this article, which covers this fact, to substantiate my point. I also noted that I thougth the article was well-balanced, unlike much of the crap we read on here about Theriot.
You don't think the analysis is sophisticated enough. That's fine. I never said it was the most sophisticated statistical analysis of Theriot's performance on the internent. I simply said it was a good, well-balanced assessment of his skills. I stand by that. You are free to disagree. This thread is too long, I suggest we tie it off.
#52 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
it's all semantics...we're both right or wrong to some degree depending on how much we wanna get into it. it's one of the drawbacks of having convos like this on broken apart text bursts rather than in person where it can be hashed out real quick...whether we agree or not.
im not trying to get into a pissing contest because he's getting the results no matter how its broken down how he's getting it. we're not talking about signing the guy to a 5 year 50m deal or anything, so its not worth getting into on that level, either.
i didnt see where you were coming from there. i do now. hope you see where im coming from, too.
#53 Re: Game 37 Thread / Diamondbacks @ Cubs (3 of 3)
All good.
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