Game 92 Thread / Reds @ Cubs (3 of 3)

Dueling Game Threads to account for the increased interest in the Cubs following the magnificent first half, 7 all-stars, and the Harden trade. Customer responsiveness, another reason TCR is the best Cubs blog out there!

Ryan Howard puts the Cards behind early. I've been thinking that the Cubs immediate goal should be to bury this division early and set up the rotation for the playoffs and rest Z, Harden, Dempster, Soto, etc. General consensus is the Harden trade was about 08. True, but I think it's more specific than that..it's possible they'll choke (it's still Cubs laundry), but seems very likely this is a post-season team and that the trade is built solely around October 2008. Front-line pitching is so much more important it seems in short series than in a prolonged season.

bah, Rob, you ate the TLFC prediction from your game thread!

Am I the only one getting this weird blank space in the middle of the game threads in Firefox?

(making up for limitted postings by CA-Phil, whose only redeeming TCR quality is having more electoral votes than AZ Phil)...

this lineup sucks..

Is Henry Blanco dead?

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I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me- hst

sorry about the double threads, my contribution was that if Lilly doesn't get the win today, then Z and Dempster would be the first pair since 1977 (Rick Reuschel and Burris)with 10 or more wins at the Break. and will Geovany Soto ever get a day off? sorry about eating the TLFC super computer prediction...hopefully he'll put it back up.

Dare we re post the prediction, isn't that some sort of sacrilege?

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"If you're not a Ted Head, you should be" - God

and dodgers and phils interested in AJ Burnett....

Seeing Michael Wuertz in the third inning is never a good sign.

Should start raining in the next 5-10 minutes anyway. Maybe after the inevitable delay we'll see Gaudin for a long relief spot.

Start the rain dance!!!

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I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me- hst

Seeing Michael Wuertz at any time is becoming iffy.

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Voting for non-Americans since 2008.

is usually scheduled for before the game, right?

TLFCSC sees: 7 IP, 7Ks, 2 BB, 2ER, 1-3 RBI (2b, hbp, sac fly)

...ummm.

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"Gasp... You used Ghostbusters for evil!" ~ Liz Lemon

wow...wuertz and loober work for only the 2nd time in about 2 weeks.

and it looks like they've had 2 weeks off, too.

Sexson released, Bedard goes on DL

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ao9hEEqhMZla...

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I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me- hst

Reds lead in the HR derby 7-1.

C-Pat goes in to play CF in the top of the 8th, then Dusty pinch-hits for him in the bottom of the 8th with the Reds up by 5 runs.

Cold. Very cold.

If you're watching, the Reds were just sitting on that BP fastball of Lilly's - a quick hook by Lou, but a necessary one. Decent outing by our new middle - relief man, albeit with one HR. Looked better than Weurtz, at least.

Dunn's HR cleared the park, btw. Looked like it was still rising as it flew over the bleachers.

Maybe Dusty needed some more base - clogging.

This was like that game Leiber started only we actually had a few shots to get back in the game. Ah well won the series..mission accomplished...now lets do the same with the Giants.

damn...votto has 6 of his 13 homers vs. the cubs.

lou postgame..."we cant stay with 13 pitchers" and he mentions needing an OF'r...

Umm...

Corey Hart? An All-Star? Seriously? Over Burrell and Wright?

Sad.

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Antagonizing TCR posters with my my "assinine" "socialist drivel" and my signatures since 2003.

3:09 PST on July 10th, 2008: the moment in which Willie Bloomquist hits his first extra base hit of the season.

I wonder how he's kept his job the past five seasons.

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The Mexican homeboy.

Cubs go for the sweep as Bronson Arroyo matches up against the Cubs' new #4 starter.

Too bad the new #4 pitched like a #5.

Can't we trade for Glenallen Hill for the righty off the bench? He's the one wearing a Rockies first base coach helmet.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-301795791...

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One week until the Winter Meetings...Woo!

PITT going with the "pitcher hitting 8th" thing...

2 on, 2 out...pitcher strikes out. that's a shock.

With Lou Piniella saying in the post-game presser that the Cubs can't stay at 13 pitchers post-ASB (and it sounds like he would prefer to have the 13th pitcher replaced with a position player immediately), one thing to keep in mind is that if Michael Wuertz is optioned out for at least 20 days, the Cubs buy another year of control over him.

If Wuertz continues to accrue MLB ST without losing anything to time spent on optional assignment to the minors, he will hit 6+007 MLB ST at the end of the 2010 season, and he can then be a FA. But by going out on optional assignment for at least 20 days, he cannot get credit for a full season of MLB ST in 2008, and in fact would enter the 2009 season with no more than 3+159 MLB ST, meaning the earliest he could hit six years would be early in the 2011 season, rather than late in the 2010 season. And that would delay his becoming a FA by one year.

Wuertz has one minor league option left, and although he would have to clear Optional Assignment Waivers in order to be optioned out, these particular type of waivers are almost always just a formality because they are revocable. Most teams place all of the players on their 40-man roster who would require Optional Assignment Waivers in order to be sent to the minors on waivers at the beginning of each waiver period just to get it out of the way. And then once the player clears Optional Assignment Waivers, the waivers are good for the entire waiver perioid (the current one runs through July 31st).

As for which positon player the Cubs might bring up until Soriano is ready, I would think Felix Pie (326/370/488 in nine games at AAA Iowa since returning from his "rehab" at Fitch Park) and Jake Fox (288/370/522 with 6 HR and 28 RBI in his last 35 games at AA Tennessee) would be easy moves that could be undone without difficuluty.

The problem with bringing Jason Dubois up from Iowa is that he is out of minor league options, so sending him back to the minors would require getting him through Outright Assignment Waivers, which are irrevocable. It may be that the Cubs would be willing to take on Dubois while he's hot (he hit three more HR last night), and then just risk losing him on waivers to another club once Soriano returns. But recalling Pie or Fox and then optioning them back to the minors once Soriano returns would be easy.

I assume Dubois is there for a potential Sept. call-up to bring a power (although quite iffy) RH bat off the bench in Sept.

I also assume they would want to see more out of Felix than a good 9-game stretch -- probably depends on Sori's time frame.

Looks like we get Cain Friday and Lincecum Sunday. Nuts.

Speaking of pitching matchups -- the Reds wills send Fogg to the mound tomorrow vs. the Brewers. A quick look at Fogg's career stats begs the question "How the hell is this guy still in MLB?" Truly amazing.

I think we saw Wuertz pitch his last game in a Cubs uniform today. From the postgame comments Lou wants another OF and Wuertz just doesnt have a role. Lou doesnt trust him in close games and you have Lieber, Marshall and now Gaudin to work long relief. I think he will be DFA'd before tomorrow's game and Torres will take his spot on both the 25 and 40 man roster. Wuertz then will likely be traded to the Marlins for one of the prospects that was involved in that aborted JJ trade last year.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?arti...

for those of you who get baseball prospectus, here is the link to C Kahrl's Transaction of the Day column. It's a detailed take on both the Oakland and Cub sides of the trade. Pretty scathing in spots, mostly ranting about why Oakland/Beane would make this deal:

excerpts...

Why make a deal with the Cubs, who just don't have all that much to offer?
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On some level, I segregate this deal into two segments, because I'm merely human and I create patterns where none might exist. First, I put Gaudin for Gallagher to one side as something of a push, where the benefits are pretty straightforward: Gaudin's getting expensive through arbitration, where Gallagher's five years removed from free agency and three years younger. Consider it an exchange of an established fourth starter for a potential fourth starter, with the attendant cost savings. The problem is that this leaves you with Patterson, Murton, and Donaldson for Harden. Somebody would bite on that? Billy Beane would bite on that? Where's Felix Pie? Where's Rich Hill? Where's... well, something or somebody with real upside? This is it?

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One week until the Winter Meetings...Woo!

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?arti...

also in baseball perspective is the Joe Sheehan take on the trade (some of this is pretty funny...love the Sirotka'd line!):

exceprts...

Yet with all that, well, this is basically a free Rich Harden. If you’re the Cubs, the risk involved in making this trade is so low as to make it a no-brainer. The package of players they gave up will not be missed.
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This is not to say that Harden is damaged goods, that he’s going to get hurt, that the Cubs got Sirotka’d. This is to say that no one in this deal, and no one breaking it down on the internet, has a firm grip on what Rich Harden is. He could be one of the 10 best pitchers in the National League. He could also be to the 2008 Cubs what Mark Prior was to the last two editions—a potentially great pitcher who never takes the mound.
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Eric Patterson is Ray Durham Lite
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We can say with some certainty that Murton is the biggest winner in the trade, given that the Cubs have done everything but sign Andre Dawson and exhume Hack Wilson to play in front of him.
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There’s an argument that the Cubs didn’t just get the best player in the deal—they got the two best players.

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One week until the Winter Meetings...Woo!

I think Wuertz should have trade value. He's experienced and has hot streaks were he does excellent work. Just not this year. He's been erratic but so infrequently used that he's not gotten into Lou's regular bullpen rotation.

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One week until the Winter Meetings...Woo!

once again i say that m. wuertz needs to go
the sooner the better, was it not stated
on a earlier post that he does have a option
left?

now that was a platoon!

billybucks:
Speaking of pitching matchups -- the Reds wills send Fogg to the mound tomorrow vs. the Brewers. A quick look at Fogg's career stats begs the question "How the hell is this guy still in MLB?" Truly amazing.

Wasn't Fogg & Kip Wells in the same rotation at one point? Scary stuff.

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"Gasp... You used Ghostbusters for evil!" ~ Liz Lemon

Rumor Alert~
I have a contact in MLB circles who talked to a Cardinal scout that Matt Holliday will be traded to Cardinals in next couple of weeks.

Take it for what its worth.

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I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me- hst

Not even two full years ago the Chicago Cubs contained such gems as:

J. Pierre
M. Murton
J. Jones
J. Mabry
B. Coats
A. Pagan
F. Bynum
S. Moore
M. Barrett

Anybody miss Freddie Bynum? I didn't think so.

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"Gasp... You used Ghostbusters for evil!" ~ Liz Lemon

Not even two full years ago the Chicago Cubs contained such gems as:

Neifi
J. Macias
M. Lawton

(don't remind me of this EVER again)

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One week until the Winter Meetings...Woo!

I wonder what the conspiracy theory represents here - do they think the club's employing pitch spotters in the CF scoreboard? Shades of the Bobby Thompson Giants? A bit paranoid, perhaps? Patriots haters? Mulder, Scully?

I just took a second to look at the AZL Cubs stats, and there are some players that are really kicking butt down there. 19-year-old Julio Pena has started off really well as a RHP, with a 0.52 ERA, and a 0.72 WHIP. There are also several position players lighting it up - Jericho Jones, Sean Hoorelbeke, John Contreras, and Nelson Perez. I am very aware that it is early, and at this time of year, there is quite a logjam in the low-level minors, due to all the draft picks just starting up. I wonder how long these guys will stay down in AZL if they keep up at this rate....

"Barrett is considered bad?"

It wasn't just his defense behind the plate that annoyed some - his handling of the pitching staff was suspect as well. Notwithstanding the connection with Hill, he didn't appear to have a lot of confidence from the staff regarding calling a game (but perhaps the manager/pitching coach do that primarily these days) - and you don't get into fisticuffs with your ace on the bench. That pretty much said it all, didn't it?

If Barrett could've played the OF, perhaps he'd be a more valuable player. But the predominate view around the leagues are that you go for defensive ability first in a catcher, and any additional offense you get is gravy. Thank goodness the Cubs don't have to worry about either talent regarding Soto. Best player at that position (so far) since Jody Davis.