Game 127 Thread / Reds @ Cubs (3 of 3)

Game Chat | Press Pass | BR Preview

SP Josh Fogg SP Carlos Zambrano
  2-5, 7.71, 38 K, 24 BB, 65.1 IP
12-5, 3.38, 107 K, 53 BB, 157 IP
       
LF *Chris Dickerson LF Alfonso Soriano
SS Jeff Keppinger SS Ryan Theriot
RF *Jay Bruce 1B Derrek Lee
2B Brandon Phillips 3B Aramis Ramirez
1B *Joey Votto CF *Jim Edmonds
3B Edwin Encarnacion 2B Mark DeRosa
CF *Corey Patterson RF *Kosuke Fukudome
C *Paul Bako C Henry Blanco
P Josh Fogg P #Carlos Zambrano

 

The Cubs try to take two of three from a team so bad, they have given more than 250 at-bats to a player hitting less than .200, are granting a 12th start to a pitcher with a 7.71 ERA (ERA+ of 58), and sent an apology letter to their fans...with 35 games still left in the campaign.

Carlos Zambrano goes for his fifth consecutive win against the Reds, hoping to bounce back to #1 form after three unimpressive outings.

Tags: 
Gameday Open Thread
Submitted by Cubnut on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 9:48am
Return to Homepage

Comments

Submitted by blockhead25
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 1:18pm

I think this game is one of the most important of the year. Not in terms of winning. Winning would be nice, but the Cubs earned themselves a margin of error. It's critical that Zambrano rights the ship, and does it now. With the bitch schedule in September and heading into the the playoffs, if he doesn't get his #1 stuff back, that significantly weakens our outlook to get deep in September. Cincy's awful offense can hopefully get him on track. If not, it doesn't get any easier in the remainder of his starts.

Submitted by Raisin101
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 1:22pm

Not game-related but a fantastic read on Cubs 4th rounder Matthew Cerda and LLWS over-age phenom Danny Alomnte: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=...

Submitted by Jace
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 3:23pm

Yeah, it has been awhile since I have been that sucked in by a story. Raisin is right, guys. That is a GREAT article. You'd really be making a mistake not to read it.

Submitted by navigator
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 1:44pm

It's more critical that our offense starts winning low scoring games.

Submitted by 10man
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 4:10pm

dude, if it was up to our offense we would constantly be winning high scoring games, which is what we've been doing. wake up and smell the best run differential in the major leagues.

Submitted by Andrew
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 4:26pm

If Lou can get Lee and Fuku going, though, it'll be that much better. Our run differential's awesome obviously, but it's tough to lose close games like last night's especially when the pitching's been so stellar of late.

Submitted by mattralph
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 1:46pm

Z looks shaky and Double Play Lee does it again. Not a good start.

Is DLee ever going to hit another home run?

I think it's time to experiment with Soriano in the three spot, bat Theriot lead-off and move Lee down in the order where his ground balls to shortstop with men on base will come more often with two outs.

Submitted by navigator
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 2:10pm

We need something else at #3 that's for sure. Derrek Lee ranks last among qualified NL #3 hitters. Hitting him in front of Aramis who ranks 1st in the NL at clean-up seems like a waste.

Perhaps?

Soriano
Lee
DeRosa
Ramirez

or today

Soriano
Lee
Zambrano
Ramirez

Submitted by 10man
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 4:13pm

Lee ranks last in what exactly? Numbers please.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 4:54pm

OPS among #3 hitters in the NL that qualify...

Of course, #3 hitters that had AB's in other spots in the order don't show up on the ESPN.com list, even if hey have enough AB's to qualify for a BA title. For example, see Randy Winn that has 340 AB's in the #3 spot with a .735 OPS but has enough AB's otherwise to qualify.

Submitted by navigator
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 10:38pm

How about Batting Average and OPS among qualified #3 hitters for starters?

Worse, Derrek Lee is even below average compared to the mean average NL #3 hitter.

Derrek Lee #3 .289 .357 .467 .824

NL average #3 .291 .364 .473 .837

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 1:52pm

I'd hate to see this board if we lose a game to the Brewers or Cardinals in September.

Submitted by navigator
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 2:13pm

Losses to the Cardinals or Brewers are honorable.

Losses (and I think we already have 5) to crap outfits like the Reds are ridiculous. The Iowa Cubs could sweep the Reds.

Submitted by big_lowitzki
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 2:30pm

You are right... we really should expect the Cubs to NEVER lose a game against any team not named the Cardinals or Brewers.

Submitted by navigator
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 3:31pm

Yes, you're right. The Reds are a powerhouse. We should expect to lose to them.

Submitted by Tito
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 3:37pm

That's not what he said.

Submitted by big_lowitzki
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 3:39pm

Huh?

Where did I say that?

The Cubs should win series against bad teams. It is unrealistic to expect any team to never lose to a team, regardless of how good or bad that team is. And you know it.

I see this is your new soap box.

But good thing that Marmol gave up that run - this way the Cubs were able to win a close and low-scoring game. Does 3-2 count as low scoring?

Submitted by navigator
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 10:43pm

Where did I say that?

and where did I say "we really should expect the Cubs to NEVER lose a game against any team not named the Cardinals or Brewers" ??

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 10:49pm

"Losses (and I think we already have 5) to crap outfits like the Reds are ridiculous."

Submitted by navigator
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 12:59am

That cannot be emphasized enough!

The 2008 Cubs have no business losing to that bunch.

Next crap outfit up is Washington--worst team in major league baseball. 1-9 in their last ten games.

2-1 vs the Cubs.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 2:08am

Tampa Bay is 2-5 against Cleveland. Than Angels are 3-2 versus Kansas City. The Red Sox are 2-6 against Toronto. The White Sox are 3-2 versus Baltimore. The Twins are 1-2 versus Baltimore. The D Bags are 1-2 versus Cincy. The Dodgers 2-4 versus Atlanta. The Brewers are 3-4 versus Colorado. Tge Cardinals are 3-4 versus the Giants. The Mets are 2-5 against the Padres. The Phillies are 3-3 versus San Fran.

The Cubs have the best record in baseball, with the widest run differential. They're one of the top four teams, without a doubt, and have fewer flaws than the Angels, Red Sox and Rays.

Submitted by Chad
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 4:05pm

I got some bad news for you friend,

if the Cubs play .667 baseball against the bad teams and .500 against the good ones, we clinch with 5 - 7 games left in the season.

2 out of 3 is perfectly acceptable. Not idea. But acceptable.

Submitted by jacos
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 4:07pm

If you want perfection and blow outs watch the US Women's softball team.

Ooops.

Scratch that.

Submitted by mattralph
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 1:57pm

If the Cubs can beat teams they're supposed to beat, like Corey Patterson and the Reds, Washington, etc., losses to the Brewers or Cardinals in September won't matter so much.

Submitted by jacos
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 1:58pm

DEATH!!! FIRE!!!! PLAGUE!!!!!! CATS AND DOGS WALKING TOGETHER!!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!
(wilhelm scream)

Submitted by Tito
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 2:11pm

Saw this Harden shirt outside the park last night:

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.ph...

The resemblance is uncanny.

Submitted by dcf
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 2:26pm

Dear DLee,

Please stop hitting ground balls to the shortstop.

Thank you.

Submitted by Brick
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 3:06pm

GameDay is malfunctioning. It says "Corey Patterson walks." Can anyone set me straight on what's happening?

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 3:10pm

it's alright, he did the honorable thing and got caught stealing, so as not to clog the bases.

Submitted by Timmer
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 6:07pm

Classic.

Submitted by Tito
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 3:16pm

I'll take this "shaky" Z the rest of the way, thanks.

Submitted by dcf
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 3:39pm

Rejoice! We triumph.

Submitted by Andy
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 3:39pm

W00t!

Submitted by navigator
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 3:41pm

Yeah! We Win a Close Low Scoring Game!

feels good

Submitted by nohit
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 3:51pm

Shouldn't have been close. :P

Submitted by Dmac
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 4:27pm

Nice win, have to hope that this is just another annual August hiccup for Z. Gotta love that it never effects his batting, though. That tater was crushed.

Submitted by blockhead25
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 4:40pm

That game didn't do much to pacify my worries about Z. He was behind everyone the first 4 innings. It was certainly and improvement o0ver the last 2 outings, but something is still clearly "off".

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 11:31pm

The difference between Z last night and Z the previous two starts was the competition, not the pitching.

Submitted by Cubster
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 5:19pm

78 wins is the most for ANY team in baseball. Woo.

Submitted by Chad
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 6:11pm

The magic number should be posted should, tomorrow, the Cubs win, Brewers lose or (God willing) both.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 6:43pm

Magic #'s are 30 and 27.

Submitted by Chad
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 6:51pm

thanks smart ass. And I meant front page.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 7:32pm

start a blog, douchebag.

Submitted by blockhead25
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 7:11pm

eh...even at 29, you are still talking close to a month to clinch.
I remember in the 80's, the Trib used to start counting down from 20...that seems like a good point to really pay attention to Magic #s.

You know what would be a lot of fun. Clinching the Division against the Cardinals, on the final Wrigley weekend of the year (Or at least, officially knocking them out of the playoffs)

Submitted by Chad
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 7:34pm

Why wait? We're not tempting fate.

Submitted by blockhead25
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 6:16pm

so, with 4 more wins, Cubs will have a winning record for the 5th time in 8 years (2001,2003,2004,2007,2008)....versus only 5 winning seasons from the 29 years from 1972 - 2000

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 11:32pm

Fire Hendry! ?

Submitted by jacos
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 6:39pm

Z cracked his mollar(tooth-sp?)during warm ups today.

He said he did it by chewing gum.

Yikes.

Submitted by crunch
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 7:35pm

cracked a tooth by chewing gum?

i wonder if he's getting training supplements from neifi these days.

for a guy with dehydration issues he's been showing up on the mound so hyped this year...whether its coffee, redbull, pills, or whatever...he's putting too much of it in him it seems.

at least he's not overthrowing on the mound.

-edit-

speaking of...from ye old world o' roto...

someone forgot to tell j.sosa that they drug test a bit more harsher and a lot more regularly in the minors...

"MLB suspended RHP Jorge Sosa 50 gamesfor testing positive for amphetamines.
Sosa, who opened this year in the majors with the Mets, had spent the last month with Seattle's Triple-A club. He'll miss most of April next year, so the interest in him on even a minor league deal figures to be pretty limited."

Submitted by Doug Dascenzo
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 9:43am

I'm sure TLR and the Cards will take a flyer on him.

Submitted by Hobart Mike
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 7:29pm

Dusty - "We just came up a run short of winning the series"

The Cubs were a run short of sweeping your sorry-ass team, Dusty.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=280821116

Submitted by billybucks
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 9:26pm

Oh, man, H Mike -

I was laughing at Dusty for saying that one run would have won the game (no, doofus, it would have only tied it)....but then you matched him. Yikes.

Submitted by Hobart Mike
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 11:14pm

I noticed what he said ... I just thought I'd talk his language ... :)

Submitted by Chad
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 12:37am

he actually came up 2 runs short.

Submitted by Dmac
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 7:54pm

But he's still happy - little of that pesky base clogging to annoy him this series.

Submitted by Barry M
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 8:02pm

Sorry about being off topic. Could anyone tell me what I can expect to pay for decent seats at this saturdays game. Thanks all

Submitted by jacos
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 8:11pm

Whats decent?
How many?

Submitted by Jumbo
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 8:54pm

One... million dollars (Dr. Evil touches pinky to cheek)

Submitted by Barry M
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 8:16pm

2 tickets, not obstructed, maybe bleachers.

Submitted by jacos
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 8:39pm

Bleachers will be pretty expensive.

And you have to buy them early which will be in scalper advantage.

Just walk around the park and talk to the guys with tix and try to wait right up to game time to get them desperate. You still our going to pay at least $ 50 a ticket.

But another disadvantage is there is only two more Saturday games left this year and one of them is the Cardinals.

Good luck and watch out for counterfeit tix.

Submitted by Doug Dascenzo
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 9:48am

I bought some Upper Deck Box seats a few Wednesdays ago from a scalper for $65/seat. At first I thought it was a littly pricey, until I realized fucking face value was $55. The price of seats these days is really getting out of whack.

But yeah, if you wait until right around game time, they'll unload for at least close to face. Unfortunately, tix are in such high demand this year I've been a few times where the only seats they have left are singles or those dugout box seats for $300 a pop. Better Craig's List than sorry on a Saturday, me thinks.

Submitted by big_lowitzki
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 8:48pm

Look on Craigs List.

I bought 2 bleacher tickets for a Sunday game a couple of weeks ago at face value through Craigs List.

Submitted by jacos
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 8:50pm

There you go.

A Sunday game might be easier. Saturday noon game, big drinking day.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 8:24pm

the NL Cy Young and MVP's

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?arti...

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?arti...

Lincecum and Pujols if you can't read it, although they figure that Brandon Webb will end up winning it.

Submitted by crunch
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 8:37pm

what on earth was his excuse for picking cliff lee for AL MVP?

hamilton and quentin aren't exactly runaways...and hamilton isn't on a contender...

great year...great pitching...great consistancy...but mvp?

btw...that stuff is all subscription.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 8:50pm

hence, the "if you can't read it" comment...

Cliff Lee leads the AL in WARP-1 would be the argument. Kinsler and Mauer were 1 and 2 for position players in WARP-1. 

My vote goes to Joe Mauer. 

Submitted by crunch
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 8:54pm

my vote goes to travis hafner.

thnx, btw.

Submitted by Chad
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 12:35am

MVP on a team that finishes in last place (or close to)? Yes there is precedence but it's totally stupid.

Second, he only plays in 35 games a season.

Submitted by johann
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 8:31am

Pitching wins games and seasons.

Submitted by Chad
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 12:44pm

That has nothing to do with it. How are you the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER when you didn't add that much value?

You take Cliff Lee off the Indians and they still suck.

Submitted by johann
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 12:57pm

They just suck a lot more then another team would suck taking their best player off the team. I'm not even having this argument because it's been had before. My bigger point is that a great pitcher to me adds more value to a team then a great hitter despite the every 5th day thing.

Also, a great pitcher can win you a World Series, a great hitter generally doesn't.

Submitted by Chad
on Sat, 08/23/2008 - 8:34pm

Totally wrong. I would an Albert Pujols or an A-Rod long before I took any pitcher. and as far as the MVP award goes, the World Series is meaningless.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sun, 08/24/2008 - 2:37am

"Also, a great pitcher can win you a World Series, a great hitter generally doesn't."

Somebody better tell Reggie Jackson.

Submitted by big_lowitzki
on Sun, 08/24/2008 - 9:52am

"Generall" would mean that it typically doesn't happen. Not that it never happens.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 11:34pm

The season's not over.

Submitted by Barry M
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 8:41pm

watch out for counterfeit tix? how can i tell?

Submitted by jacos
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 8:48pm

selling cheap, ticketmaster tickets. Only tix scalper has.

Never happen to me, heard stories. You should be okay

Submitted by Mitterwald
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 9:11pm

I'm surprised by how many people want style points attached to wins. Would it have counted more if we had won 13-2 instead of 3-2?

Submitted by blockhead25
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 9:34pm

well, considering how run differential is such a popular stat these days, yes, it would have counted for more.

I am mildly concerned about our offense...aisde from a couple gappers in Florida, the offense has really not been on all cylinders since leaving Atlanta. Lee's power has completely dissapapered, Aram isn't far behind, Fukudome looks more lost at the blate everyday. Thankfully, 1-8, the team is deep so there are enough people to drive in runs, but I'd feel much better if Lee and Aram could start hitting the ball out again.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 10:30pm

what the hell?

aramis has a 1.315 OPS over the last 7 days entering today..and a 1.116 OPS in August. If you discount the one pinch-hitting  appearance in Florida, there's only 2 games in August he doesn't have a hit. 

Submitted by VirginiaPhil
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 10:08am

I don't think Lee is a power hitter at this point. Look at his swing. Inside pitches, even middle-in, befuddle him. He has 380-390 power to center and right-center, so he hits a lot of doubles, not many HRs.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 10:47am

What was the first clue, 4 HR's in his last 277 at bats?

Submitted by billybucks
on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 9:36pm

I was at the ballpark today -- very weird atmoshpere. No real excitment in the crowd -- first run was on a DPLee DP, which was more a cause for grumbling than cheering, then 2 solo shots from relatively unexpected sources (DeRo and Z) in the 2nd and 3rd -- no anticipation or build up. No offense at all after the 3rd inning. Z seemed mediocre against a crap lineup -- never really seemed in control (I mean, when you walk Corey...) and the crowd seemed frustrated by his mundane outing. Thank goodness for Henry Blanco's throwing.

Only real excitment in the crowd was for Kerry's final K.

Weird. Nice win, but weird.

I think Lou should sit Fukky all weekend. Something needs to change -- we can't have RF be an offensive wasteland for the rest of the year.

Submitted by Ryno
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 8:59am

So the Cubs only won the Cincy series because Z pitched well and hit a home run?

Ground control to Cubs offense? Are you there?

Never in my life have I felt so "blah" about a team with the best record in baseball in August. I completely relate to the crowd's "weirdness".

Maybe it's that we're all so used to losing that we don't know how to handle a dominant Cub team. Or maybe we're jaded from what transpired in the '03 NLCS, so we're like, "yeah, the playoffs, who cares".

Submitted by billybucks
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 9:10am

Part of the feeling is that nobody is hot right now, so there's not much anticipation when the big hitters come up. Theriot is the only regular hitting over .290 (and he only hits singles), DLee has hit 2 HRs since June 21st and is a DP machine, Fukky is a disaster, Soto's and Edmonds' power have cooled, Soriano had a blah series, Rammy hasn't yet had a really hot streak, etc...

..and yet, it's the best offense in MLB.

Submitted by The E-Man
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 10:42am

I have been to 15 games so far this year (14-1 and probably the first and last time this will ever happen).

I'd agree that most times the fans are pretty lethargic. Until there is a home run, or something else really exciting happens.

The exceptions are for the rivalry games - Milwaukee, Cards, Sox, and other division leaders - in my view those games people are much more attentive and into every inning.

I have noticed that for the "dog teams", many people around the park could care less what is happening on the diamond, and it a point of annoyance for me when someone at a loud pitch is talking about cell phones during a key AB, but that's just me perhaps.

Submitted by billybucks
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 11:16am

In the games I have been to this year -- there seems to be more energy at night games than in day games. My searing insight -- beer helps.

Submitted by Ryno
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 12:25pm

Lee Elia approves.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 12:27pm

Part of the feeling is that nobody is hot right now,

poor Aramis, Soto and DeRosa, a 1000+ OPS during the month just isn't what it use to be...

 (Reed, Z also over 1000, Blanco in the 950's for August) 

 

Submitted by Ryno
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 12:32pm

Yeah, I'm not sure I buy into that too much either. The team is playing fantastic, and has all year except for a few small stretches.

Yet, it doesn't feel like it. I'm convinced that most of us Cub fans are simply miserable beings and when the Cubs finally win the world series we'll all, collectively start bleeding from the ears as our brains explode inside our skulls.

*sigh*

Submitted by Cubster
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 5:08am

Next crap outfit up is Washington--worst team in major league baseball.
=========
still, I'm glad the Gnats ended their 12 game losing streak thursday...now they can relax and start another one.

Submitted by billybucks
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 9:55am

How in the world does Josh Fogg still have a job as an MLB pitcher? He has a craeer ERA of 5.07.

Submitted by nohit
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 10:58am

So they'll let some kid throw out the first pitch just because his old man named him "Wrigley", but they won't let the world's oldest Cubs fan throw one out?

Granted, the dude didn't move to Chicago until 1920 and has no recollection of the 1908 Cubs, but I still smell Cubbery!

Submitted by Andy
on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 12:38pm

looks like

soriano
theriot
lee
ramirez
johnson
soto
derosa
cedeno
marquis

There, everyone happy? No Fukudome :)

X
You may login with either your assigned username or your e-mail address.
The password field is case sensitive.
Loading