The Lillyhammer Drops

UPDATE: Thanks to reader "The Joe" for finding the video of the collision which is at the bottom of the post.


With the Cubs in desperate need of a dominating pitching performance to take the pressure off the struggling offense, Ted Lilly delivered. 90 pitches, 8 IP, 5 H, 5 K,1 ER and a KO. All good for a 73 game score that could have been a bit higher if Lou didn't curiously go to Kerry Wood in the 9th. Padding save stats is nice and all and I'm sure Kerry's bank account will appreciate it next year, but when your team is in a funk and Lilly retires 11 straight and is only on 90 pitches, I'm not sure it's the best time to just give Kerry some work.

Nonetheless, the Cubs prevailed and our pals at TLFC couldn't be more thrilled with the performance. The other play of note was Lilly knocking over and knocking out Yadier Molina. In the theater of baseball, it was one of those plays that makes you stand up and cheer and hope it riles up the team to reel off 10 straight wins. When you think about the foolishness of your pitcher leading with his throwing arm to bowl over someone who outweighs him by 40 pounds, the shine wears off pretty quick. 

But damn, it sure was fun to watch (Pictures after the jump)...

 

 



Mr. Molina, you're a great ballplayer and I just like to say, your standing on the tracks and the train's coming through butthead

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Comments

Unfortunately, it didn't rile the team up to score any runs after the 2nd inning. Of course, if DLee would stop hitting freakin' ground balls with runners on 3rd, this whole situation would have been avoided.

Geo Soto better watch himself if there is a play at the plate tonight. Also -- Cards will likely be very aggressive trying to break up DPs or sliding into bases (cue the Renteria/Fontenot tape).

Hopefully Harden will just strike everybody out and make these points moot.

wow...molina has the BAD habit of keeping a finger outside his glove.

seen this over the years...didn't think it was still "in fashion" though.

huh? Most everyone I knew did that...granted that was 10-15 years ago. Most glove manufacturers built into the gloves.

There's really no added injury risk. The 1/8 inch of leather back there isn't going to protect you from anything.

Gotta admit that I am with Rob. That is the way I still wear it on those few times I still get out and play catch (with my autographed Larry Hisle mitt). It kinda feels uncomfortable to not wear the mitt that way.

it's not good habit. it's a great way to screw up your hand, too.

it's fallen out of fashion.

it's not about catching a ball or getting hit by a ball as much as it is another physical object (especially a person coming at you or an "immovable" object like the ground) causing the injury.

sure its not a huge risk, but its a needless risk that's fallen out of fashion everywhere but little league and beer league softball.

people thought it was a revolution when the catcher started putting his arm/hand behind his back...now its in favor cuz it makes sense.

here are some photos for you....

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/apphoto/5090e466-d...

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/apphoto/21acd56e-b...

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/apphoto/6ebe6c51-7...

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/apphoto/206c7f7b-2... (has a black glove on but his finger is outside the mitt)

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/apphoto/7e57d619-5...

they taught me to put my exposed arm behind my back when I caught in Little League 30 years ago and I still see major leaguers NOT do it all the time fwiw.

i dont recall saying everyone's doing it why not him...or that no one's doing it...

im saying its a bad practice/habit that's been coached out for a while now.

i know one ex-minor league instructor in particular for whom this is his pet peeve and florida's braintrust (at the time at least) was drilling this out of players.

its something kids tend to pick up in youth and carry with them.

didn't think it was still "in fashion" though.

and the coach/instructor sounds like a retard... 

i have no idea why this matters to you so much.

he has plenty of stories of sprained fingers and a few broken ones by players in the infield making tag plays, catchers in collisions (even one catcher who just caught a ball wrong and sprained the unrestrained finger), and OF'rs rolling over the finger.

its minor, but it happens. how trying to lessen these injuries makes a coach a retard is odd.

we live in an era where soriano gets to go off ballance and hop on a bases loaded, 2 out, everyone running, popup he's camped under and no one gives a shit. its not like a finger out of a glove is even close to horrible or ignorant gameplay so why would it take huge importance? it isnt...its just a minor thing that some coaches want to see less of. no big deal...

personally, i think this ex-instructor who's now a mlb coach is a guy worth a damn and gives a fuck about his job as an instructor of technique to youth.

it doesn't really matter to me.

It's just something that isn't out of fashion and I don't really think there's much of an injury risk there for something that many players find more comfortable. 

I played and obviously watched a lot of years of baseball and don't recall it ever happening to anyone. Obviously it has somewhere down the line, but it's like making base coaches wear helmets. 1 in 1,000,000 isn't worth making a stink over. 

all i can tell you is i know 1 guy who works the game who can site enough of it to piss him off.

granted, he's seen 1000+ kids in his day take that field and i can't confirm how many he saw in person...all i can say is he sold me.

One guy means it is out of fashion? Huh?

its more than one...and it is (or was at the time) more than 1 organization-wide concern. it's not a huge concern, but it was on the radar and being addressed...be it ignoring it or doing something about it...it has been on the table for organizations and coaches.

Are we really having this conversation. have you (not you rob) ever caught a hard thrown/hit ball just off the web and have it hit you in the index finger? It sucks. That's why you keep your finger out.

At their best, the Cubs did a great job of raising the opponent's pitch count, wearing him down, and then torching middle relievers once the starter inevitably had to be replaced. The Cubs have had a bunch of games this year where they came up with a big inning late to break open an otherwise tight game.

They need to get back to working counts and drawing walks.

The idea that Lilly banging into the catcher was going to rile up the Cubs' offense is absurd. Getting more guys on base will rile up the offense.

Looper threw 106 pitches in 5 innings yesterday.

The Cubs did do a good job of raising the SP pitch count in the last game. Too bad they did zilch against the bullpen after knocking the starter out early.

i would name ted lilly co mvp of the game
the other mvp would be felix pie
who i think had the biggest hit of the game.

I almost got excited about Pie, then remember it was only 4 plate appearances. Still nice to see, though. I'm still hoping the kid puts it together and learns to at least hold his own at the plate.

Felix ".750 September OBP" Pie?

Kid can't miss.

I thought Pie looked very different last night. In May I called him "the kid who couldn't check his swing," because he started his swing too late to ever check it. Last night in the 8th inning he checked his swing twice (once for a ball) and drew a walk.

I think it's the Von Joshua effect. I hope it doesn't wear off, like it has for Cedeno.

That second picture almost looks like a panel out of a comic book, with the superhero throwing an overly dramatic left cross. He needs a little more twist in his shoulders, though. I wasn't able to watch the game, what was the situation? I'm not sure how I feel about base runners bowling over defensive players who have the ball in their hands.

1st/3rd one out, slow grounder to third I believe (or short). Ball beat him by plenty and Molina set up right in front of the plate.

What's the problem with running over catchers with the ball set up in front of the plate? It seems to be the only time that it is acceptable.

Running over a guy without the ball is when its crap or if he's not really blocking the plate.

Running over a guy who is blocking the plate and doesn't have the ball seems to me the only really acceptable time to do it--he has no right to the base path if he doesn't have the ball.

I don't see the reason for baseball to be football; forcing a fumble is part of being a linebacker, not a base runner. If the ball beats you by a mile and the defender is ready to make a tag, you can try to slide around him, get in a run down, etc., to avoid the tag, but attempting simply to hurt him or knock the ball out of his glove is pretty cheap. Thankful that Lilly doesn't seem to have been hurt on the play.

Just my opinion. Part of me not being that into the tough guy posing of professional sports.

Why would you bowl over a guy without the ball when you can just run around him? Unless you're just an asshole trying to hurt a guy. Now that's pretty cheap.

If the ball beats you by a mile and the defender is ready to make a tag, you can try to slide around him, get in a run down, etc., to avoid the tag, but attempting simply to hurt him or knock the ball out of his glove is pretty cheap. 

well if you're beat by a mile, you're never going to slide around him or avoid the tag and even if you managed to do it, you'll never get the call. Getting in a rundown has as much shot of working as running him over.

Granted, it was pretty dumb for a pitcher to do it, especially leading with his throwing shoulder, but damn what a fun play to watch.

I'm not sure what it has to do with posing, it seems to do with trying to win. 

I don't like the whole blocking the plate thing. What would happen if the first basemen just started blocking first? In theory you have to have the ball, but the catcher never has the ball when he starts blocking the plate, he blocks the plate, then gets the ball.

If they start ejecting catchers who block the plate without the ball, then I think they could eject baserunners who try to hit the catchers. But at this point, the baserunner has to run through the catcher, even if the ball isn't there.

well there's no point for a first basemen to block first since he doesn't need to tag the guy on most plays. If you're talking about pickoffs, most fielders try to put their foot in front of the bag to block it. Same goes for the rest of the diamond...you'll even see them drop to a knee in front of the bag.

I assume you mean fully standing in front of a bag to apply a tag though, but there's just not too many fielders willing to take the punishment without the catching gear.

And yeah, it's SOP to put your foot in front of the plate and wait for the throw for a catcher. There's no reason to try and a run a guy over in that situation. But when the catcher catches the ball well in front of you and sets up his whole body in front of the plate like Molina did yesterday, I don't really think Lilly had many options. It's either give up on the play or try and score. 

Who said anything about ejections?

 

If the catcher doesn't have the ball, shouldn't that be obstruction? He is blocking the runner's path to the base.

Never understood why it's OK for a catcher to block the basepath without the ball.

As I think Lilly said -- may be more injury risk sliding with the catcher blocking the plate -- could get a leg banged up or twisted.

Neal -

Apologies -- I was typing while you were posting.

That's what separates the men from the boys....

Apropos of nothing, I remember when Maddux bowled over some catcher...I believe it was in '89 and he was pinch-running at the time. That gave you an indication of what kind of baseball player he was/is.

Greg Maddux: American Hero. Fuck Yeah!!!

The scenario I'm referring to about running over a catcher at the plate who does not yet have the ball is essentially this, or slight variations on this: running coming down the third base line, ball coming from outfielder, catcher gets in blocking position, leaving little room for the runner to get around him without thus making it more difficult to beat the ball to the plate, as the ball is on its way from the outfield. The catcher is thus slowing the run by blocking his route to the plate, not waiting for the runner as he has the ball. In my mind, if the runner and catcher come into contact on the base path before the catcher has received the ball, that is obstruction. Furthermore, I don't like the catcher setting up on the base path as he waits for a throw if the runner has a chance of beating the throw. I'd prefer the runner not bowl him over, but if he must in order to beat the throw (by taking the shortest route to the plate) then I can see why he'd do it.

In my opinion, Ted Lilly should've either gotten into a run down or given up on scoring; he was beat.

Some fans and players insistence that knocking people over (and on other occasions brawling) is an important part of baseball is the posing I referred to, though granted that was probably out of place in that post.

Actually... it was runners on second and third, but for some reason Soriano decided not to advance to third on the play.

Brenley's response was something like this: "Well... that has been happening a lot lately. Soriano likes to watch what is happening.?"

right you are...that was pretty weird by Soriano.

Finally found the video here:

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2008/09/11/ted-lilly-not-m...

Damn, what a badass.

This video is never gonna let you down. Just kidding, it's the real thing.

From StL Post-Dispatch:


Molina thought Lilly's play clean because he gave him nothing to slide at. La Russa said, "We're going to play hard. That's how we play anyway. As long as when we play hard, they know it goes both ways."

Ted Lilly says:
When I step up to the plate
ay yo I step correct
Woo-Hah
got you all in check

Yadier Molina says:
Well, everybody hurts sometimes,
Everybody cries. And everybody hurts sometimes
And everybody hurts sometimes. So, hold on, hold on

Click on 'No Love Lost".

Despite the presence of Ronnie Woo-Woo, it is a very nicely done summary of why we put up with all this.

Killer ending on not having won the WS in 100 years: "We'll wait. We'll wait for our parents, and their parents. And when our time is up, our children will wiat. Go Cubs."

I want to mourn happily as Richard Savage leaves the world the way he entered it, as a witness to a World Series victory.
I want to hear Helen Keiling's daughter go hoarse.
I want to know that tears of unfathomable joy have run down the cheeks of Betty Maute.
I want to get in invitation to join the Emil Verban Society from Bruce Ladd.
I want to see Ronnie Woo-Woo Wickers undergo successful brain surgery.
I want to have Dr. Jordan Grafman perform that brain surgery.
I want to sing along with Billy Corgan during the 7th inning stretch, with the Cubs up 12 runs in the deciding game of the World Series.
I want to eat bar-b-qued goat with David Diaz.
I want to catch a game with Kurt Evans.
I want to be friends with the man who marries Anna Patras.
I want to buy Jerry Fields a beer.

I have always wondered why it was OK to bowl over a catcher but not, say, an infielder if you're caught in a rundown or something. Remember when Albert Belle did it to Vina? I don't think he was ejected or anything, but many thought it was dirty. Many thought it was perfectly legit.

I think that he did get fined or ejected, and maybe even suspended? I still think that was absurd. If Vina was in the basepath, and I seem to recall that he was, then why is that different? He was called out, and that was fair.

This would be a great debate among the baseball cognoscenti.

It would be strange to have different rules for different bases, but then again I hate the DH.

david kaplan on wgn radio said at 3 oclock cubs may
return home after tonites game and go to houston and
play on sunday and monday

seems like a Sunday doubleheader and Monday game would be wise as well. Both teams have Monday off...

My understanding from Little League onward was that if the catcher's blocking the entire plate and has the ball ahead of you, he's fair game for being run over.

"Looper threw 106 pitches in 5 innings yesterday."

I believe that they also extended him to over 40 pitches in that one inning. Nice.

My understanding from little league on was also that if you are the catcher and someone tries to run you over while you have the ball that you should tag him in the face (my coaches and parents may have been a little aggressive).

You're right, there is nothing in the rules that forbids the base runner from bowling over the catcher. But is it really something that we should admire?

ps. One of my first years of organized ball I ran over a second baseman once. Got a double out of it. But I mostly just did it because I was confused. Maybe Ted lost his train of thought too?

MLB should tell McClayne to forget about his take and that they'll reimburse him for the lost revenue - latest forecasts show Ike for a possible bulls - eye on Houston. That would be utterly ridiculous for the Cubs to play in that series.

It looks like they are still determining where and when the games will be played this weekend.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3581523

c'moooooooooooon t-ball field at the white house...

This seems like the worst possible solution.

Has anyone been to Houston? I used to travel there quite often, and the entrance from the direction where a hurricane would most likely come in from the ocean is mostly marshland, which gives way to low - lying areas leading to the city. If that thing hits near the center, forget about make up games on Sunday or Monday - the players will be the only people in town, along with the emergency personnel. This sounds like madness.

houston basically sits on a table of watery sediment...it's sinking.

along with rising oceans and sediment issues in the bays in galviston/corpus...this could be VERY bad for them.

...not to mention the amount of pollution the state (and those upstream/beside) dumps into the gulf (organic and inorganic) along with legacy pollution in houston that's gone uncleaned even though theyre on clean-up lists. this stuff is gonna run in the streets and eventually settle all over the city.

texas seems to have a long legacy of taking a long time to do anything environmental and then not bothering to fund it.

houston, itself, is littered with buried metals from decades of manufacturing and legacy or illegal waste disposal.

stupid decision i also have traveled to houston and if
this is a direct hit there is no way they play on sunday
and monday (which is the only common day off until after
the season i wonder if they looked at alternative sites
kc and atlanta for two of them sell the tickets for
ten bucks like they did in milwaukee a couple of years
ago give the proceeds to the astros.

I don't know why the aforementioned alternative sites have not been discussed publicly at this point - you have to wonder what the Astros players think as well. Can the Cubs players request a change in location via their union, or is it that whatever the MLB says, goes? Can the Cub's management request a change in venue?

Cubs wanted to play the games in St. Louis but the Astros turned that down.I would assume both teams would have to agree on any change of venue and the home team I'm sure doesn't care to lose the revenue especially if they can still get at least 2, if not all 3 games in between Sunday and Monday.

gabe kapler torn shoulder...probably out for the year.

"People in the greater Houston area and Harris County have been encouraged to stay home...
-----

Why? To sit on the roof and watch their houses blow/float away?

more detail on the Kapler injury...a torn latissimus dorsi muscle

An MRI scan Thursday revealed a torn latissimus dorsi muscle, but according to assistant general manager Gord Ash, it's a similar but less serious injury than the torn "lat" that ended Ben Sheets' season in 2005.

http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...
--------------------------------
The lat. is a posterior chest wall muscle that attaches to the proximal (upper) humerus (arm). This injury rarely needs any surgery. It's somewhat analagous to a quad or hamstring muscle strain/tear in that it takes a few weeks for the soreness to quiet down but a few months to fully recover.

Picture...

http://www.goworkoutmom.com/wp-content/uploads/200...

Nice butt.

This all comes down to the Astros not wanting to give up the money from three home games. But if a hurricane directly hits Houston, who the hell's going to a baseball game a day later? Better have a little more respect for Mother Nature. AS mentioned here earlier, Houston, aside from being an ill-conceived hell hole, is also a sitting duck for a major hurricane. A lot of people don't realize how close to the Gulf it sits.

A real commissioner (and not an owners' puppet) would step in and say, "Screw it, we're moving the games to St. Louis. "

Nice butt
----------
Gluteus Maximus

(porn star from the 80's?)

#60
you said a real comissioner would say your playing
in this city andlive with it.
could not agree more

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