Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

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SP Adam Wainwright SP Carlos Zambrano
9-3, 3.20, 84 K, 26 BB, 121 IP
14-5, 3.41, 127 K, 65 BB, 182.1 IP
       
CF *Skip Schumaker LF Alfonso Soriano
LF Ryan Ludwick SS Ryan Theriot
1B Albert Pujols 1B Derrek Lee
2B Felipe Lopez 3B Aramis Ramirez
3B Troy Glaus CF *Jim Edmonds
RF *Adam Kennedy RF Mark DeRosa
SS *Aaron Miles 2B *Mike Fontenot
P Adam Wainwright C Henry Blanco
C Jason Larue P #Carlos Zambrano

 

In his post-game press conference Thursday, a giggly Lou Piniella implied he was planning to go out last night to tie one on in celebration of the spectacular comeback victory. (I believe the exact quote was, "This is going to be a bad night for me.") It's a relief then, looking at today's lineup, to see Lou didn't stumble into the lockerroom still drunk and blindly pencil Koyie Hill into the leadoff spot as his second baseman or give a spot start to Michael Wuertz.

Geovany Soto gets the day off owing to irritation of a joint in his left hand. He is listed as day-to-day.

Our man Zambrano makes his first start since last Sunday's no-no at Milwaukee. I took a look at the last ten National Leaguers to throw complete game no-hitters before Zambrano to see how they fared in their very next outing.

First of all, the ten pitchers constitute a fairly motley crew, with luminaries like Randy Johnson, A.J. Burnett, and Kevin Brown mixed in with much lesser lights like Bud Smith and Jose Jimenez. In other words, the ten are hardly are a perfect list of comparables for Zambrano.

Anyway, in their first, post-no-hitter starts, these pitchers averaged a little over 6 IP, with about 6 hits and 3 ER allowed, for a cumulative ERA of 4.18. Combined they won 5, lost 3, and had a couple of ND's. Also, these 10 NL pitchers, who averaged 112 pitches in their respective no-hit games, averaged about 104 pitches in their first games following.

I'm not sure how instructive any of this is—as I said, it's not a great list of comps for Zambrano. What's more I don't know that any of these pitchers was fresh off a bout with rotator cuff tendinitis, which raises what is probably the most important aspect of this afternoon's game as it relates to the Cubs' World Series-winning prospects: gauging how well Zambrano has bounced back after a 110-pitch start.

One other thing to keep your eye on in this series: whether or not Tony LaRussa, who strikes me as being insane, decides to exact "revenge" on the Cubs and Ted Lilly, Saturday's scheduled starter, for Lilly's clean takedown of Cards catcher Yadier Molina last week in St. Louis. (I put revenge in quotes because I don't personally understand why a completely fair home plate collision would beg for some sort of vengeance, but I believe in TLR's world, it just will.)

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Today be clinching Day...

we hope....

Go Cubs Go!

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

Get well Geo, we need you.

He should have the day off anyways.

LaRussa is a douche.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

Add Z to the bad list after a no-hitter.

Yikes.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

They need to start carrying tranquilizer darts in the clubhouse for when Z comes unglued. It never bodes well.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

In case you're wondering, Zambrano was just as bad as that quick five-spot in the first indicates.

He had ZERO command of the strike zone.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

gameday shows mostly low 90's on Z, a couple in the 94-95 range though.

Fuck.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

Time for another shot, Carlos.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

why is he so bad? what is happening?

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

wow. this is impressive suckage.
Guess you gotta shut him down until the playoffs and hope he is strong out of the gate.

My hope is this is just the result of a week of crazy giddiness and too much off the field distractions following his no hitter.

Can you start Z in game 1 after an outing like this? I wouldn't think so.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

This is a particuarly curious comment.

"Guess you gotta shut him down until the playoffs"

"Can you start Z in game 1 after an outing like this? I wouldn't think so"

Do you want to shut him down, or have him make another start to 'right the ship'?

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

Not sure what the confusion is with that particular post you responded to.

The two things I said were not in contradiction with one another.
1. Shut him down until the playoffs.
2. Don't start him in game 1. (meaning start him in game 2 or 3)

However, after thinking about it more...I think maybe he should get one more start to make sure he has some confidence going into the playoffs.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

2nd inning

It's hard to believe this is the same guy who pitched that gem in Milwaukee.

It's like Z caught Howry disease. Over-the-middle-of-the-plate-itis.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

Hurt? Bad? Both?

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

definitely bad, not sure about hurt.

Had no command whatsoever...

Anywhere from 90-95 on his fastball, so I don't know.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

Kennedy asked for a trade today. I guess he was trying to help increase his worth.

A little showmanship

from Lou...

Z tries to walk off the mound before Lou gets there to take him out and Lou points to the mound and tells him to get back the fuck up there.

Then proceeds to take him right out.

Re: A little showmanship

Z is a mental midget.

God this is our # 1 for the playoffs.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

Was Z out partying with Lou last night?

The no-hitter was great fun, and I guess you had to let him go for it, but pitching a complete game after 2 weeks on the DL seems a bad idea, in hindsight.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

What the Fungus? If it's physical, I am concerned and could understand, but if it's mental, I am concerned and annoyed. Someone tell El Toro38 he can take his mental health break in November.
I just hope and pray that Carlos and the rest of the Cubs have the Mental tenacity to see this thing through. I'm not so sure they do. I would feel better if they went back to working pitch counts at the plate. Oh yeah, they have to actually be AT the plate, not hte deadbirds.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

Not good, but Z should get another start before the end of the year. Let's see how his arm feels and whether he can put a good effort together then.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

The one good thing about this game is that I didn't buy tickets to go to it.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

So... Z threw the OPPOSITE of a no-hitter today? Neat.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

You gotta wonder if maybe, after the last start, he came out today a little tight, as if he were trying to continue the streak. He puts a little forced heat on the fastball and it straightens out and catches the plate.

Reaching for straws, probably. Definitely discouraging. Considering recent results, but minus the no-no, I'm almost tempted to go Dempster, Harden, Lilly for the playoff rotation.

Re: He puts a little forced heat on the fastball and it straight

C'mon, the game is being televised AND it's on gameday.
Speculating that his fastball was "straightening out" when it actually was breaking 4-7 inches is just wasting time and probably killing brain cells all over the country.

Z had no command of the strike zone. His pitches were just sliding into the middle of the plate with alarming regularity.

And speaking of crap pitching. What is Guzman doing on the active roster? We already have one Howry.

Re: He puts a little forced heat on the fastball and it straight

Yeah, that fucking Guzman with the 0.00 ERA really is crappy. I mean, if he were any good his ERA would be like -6.00 or something. When you put him in the game he should take runs away from the opposing team.

Re: He puts a little forced heat on the fastball and it straight

Guzman has a 0.00 ERA? I'm missing the joke, or you are very confused.

Angel Guzman has a 9.63 ERA

Re: He puts a little forced heat on the fastball and it straight

What Guzman are you talking about?

I mean... 0.00 and 9.53 are pretty close, but come on.

Angel Guzman's WHIP is also 1.77 and his ERA+ is 47.

Pretty sure all of those would meat the definition of crappy.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

A bad start after an amazing one, and there's at least one suggestion to take him out of the playoff rotation...

Nice sense of perspective.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

Nice sense of perspective.

If that's aimed at me, I said I was tempted not that I would necessarily do it.

You have to admit though that Lilly, Dempster, and Harden have all been better than Z for the last 5 or 6 starts now, so it's not as if it's just this start alone. Something's wrong, whether's it more tendinitis/dead arm, something worse, or something mental (which is maybe worser still). Still, you can't discount his propensity to pitch big in big games and his status as our perennial ace. Let's see what his next start brings before any rash decisions are made.

P.S. One way or the other, I hope we're beyond the idea of starting Marquis in a playoff rotation.

Re: Game 152 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs

I can't second guess Lou for leaving Z out last start, you just don't pull a guy who is 6 outs from a No-Hitter.

I would like Z to be skipped a day, and pitch next Thursday. Marshall can make his scheduled start Wednesday. We have the bullpen arms to go to a 6-man rotation. If anyone else needs to make a start, we could use Randy Wells.

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