Game 157 Thread / Cubs @ Mets (3 of 4)

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SP Carlos Zambrano SP *Oliver Perez
14-6, 3.77, 128 K, 68 BB, 184 IP
10-7, 4.10, 168 K, 97 BB, 184.1 IP
LF Alfonso Soriano SS #Jose Reyes
SS Ryan Theriot LF *Daniel Murphy
1B Derrek Lee 3B David Wright
3B Aramis Ramirez CF #Carlos Beltran
RF Mark DeRosa 1B *Carlos Delgado
CF Reed Johnson RF *Ryan Church
2B Ronny Cedeno C *Brian Schneider
C Henry Blanco 2B #Argenis Reyes
P #Carlos Zambrano P *Oliver Perez


After a lifetime spent listening to ballgames on the radio, I have come to associate certain parks with a certain tone, a certain pitch in the crowd sound. Obviously, my ear is well attuned to the way that Wrigley Field crowds come across on-air. Same with Dodger Stadium, Fenway Park, and the Metrodome. (Loved hearing all those Twins fans Tuesday night!)

Shea Stadium is another one of those parks. Unlike what you hear over the radio from those other parks, however, the crowd sound that goes out over the airwaves from a raucous Shea isn't one of collective joy. It's much more coarse, much more dangerous, a wild, unruly roar—like the sound of inmates rooting on two guys aiming to shank each other in the middle of the yard.

I was reminded of that while listening to Pat Hughes last night, in the sixth inning, when Chad Gaudin came unglued, the big Mets rally took hold, that awful, awful Shea crowd came to life, and I lost all hope of following a game the Cubs didn't have to win with any sort of detachment.

Goddamn those Mets.

In tonight's showdown before the inmates, Carlos Zambrano returns to the mound after that ghastly, eight-run, 1
2/3-inning outing against the Cardinals last Friday, which led to
renewed speculation about the Cubs' NLDS rotation and the most spirited
discussion of the nature of jet lag in the history of The Cub

Here's Lou Piniella on The Man Who Used To Be Ace:

"He missed two starts prior to the no-hitter (because of tendinitis in
his right shoulder), and the last start was an inning-plus. He needs work, it's obvious. We've got him on his fifth day, and
we'll let him work as much as possible Wednesday."

Sure doesn't sound a description of the guy you're going to hand the ball to for Game One.

Mets starter Oliver Perez hasn't pitched against the Cubs since 2005, when he was a Pirate and he was busy giving up homers to Neifi Perez and Jason Dubois. He has only won once in his last seven starts, but pitched well enough the last time out to keep the Mets bullpen out of the game until the seventh inning as the Metropolitans collected a much needed victory at Atlanta.

Rob G. says that a Zambrano/Oliver Perez matchup takes him back to a particular game in 2004, in which Sammy Sosa made an amazing catch in right-center field with the bases loaded in the last of the 8th to preserve a Cubs win.

Rob G's memory is good. Scary good.

Two last items:

Congratulations to Sean Marshall, who, on the strength of Tuesday night's outing, has assured himself of a place in Lou's bullpen during the playoffs.

And lastly, I would like to take this opportunity to officially endorse the
Milwaukee Brewers as my emotional favorite to win the NL Wild Card. I
thought last night's comeback, walk-off victory against the Pirates demonstrated a lot of
resolve from a team that has played itself into quite a hole. Plus the Brewers aren't the Mets, and that's enough for


"—like the sound of inmates rooting on two guys aiming to shank each other in the middle of the yard."

Fantastic description!

I happened to attend the 2002 Mets-Yankees game at Shea, which was Roger Clemens first at bat following his roid-rage-tastic broken bat assault of Mike Piazza in the previous year's WS.

The fans were unquestionably out for blood. It was as if we were about to watch an ultimate fighting challenge instead of baseball.

As a matter of fact, when Estes whimped out, I thought that half the crowd was going to run out to the mound and pull his arms off.

Some thing doesn't add up.

Mets Yanks World Series 2000
Yanks Snakes 2001

oops. you are right.

I donno, I guess I was there in 01.

fwiw -checked, Clemens didnt pitch when the Yanks came to Shea in 01, and therefore didnt come to the plate till the O2 series.

not as senile as I thought I was.


I also have to say that Shea is by far the worst baseball venue that I have ever been to.

I haven't been to Shea, but I've been to games at the Oakland Coliseum and woo-boy was that place a stinker.

Speaking of ballpark acoustics - Hawk Harrelson has made it official - he's fucking crazy. Many had supposed as much for many years, but this has proved it beyond any doubt.

"According to Hawk, who stated that he has been formulating this theory for thirty years, the subconscious 'eats whatever the conscious feeds it,' and when the sound waves in a stadium "bounce around" the inside of a player's skull, it creates "positive vibes" or "negative vibes," depending on whether that player is home or away. There you have it folks--the science of home field advantage."

I recommend the entire read. Very enlightening for those among us who wear tinfoil hats.

Anymore questions on who the game 1 starter should be?
1 awesome performance, does not make up for the 8 bad to awful ones that have surrounded it.

Headline of the lead story on right now:

"Cubs try to be unwanted Big Apple of Mets' eye"

That is some lousy, lousy copy.

No way they should risk this great season on the instability of CZ. Game 1 and Game 5 pressure would be in his head. Big time.



Well CHAD and BLOCKHEAD25, you guys still want to go with the "veteran" WARD who popped out again, while Hoffpaiur had a key single this inning?

The 28 year old kid is outplaying the veteran, in my opinion.

He deserves it, and no, in my opinion DWARD will not be 2008's Randall Simon

Honestly, Ward vs. Hoffpaiur is the absolute least of my concerns going into the playoffs. If you want Hoff, I'll support Hoff to make you happy.

i will not.

wow sutcliffe on espn was calling all of samardzjas

could cedeno be playing his way off roster
or is he safe due to the righty lefty numbers
on bench?

Ward and Howry are old and bad.

Experience without ability doesn't get you much.

Cedeno is safe...

As for the bullpen I don't trust any of them except for Marmol :(

Wood and Cotts are 'ok'.

Marshall is in according to Lou.

After that...hmmm Gaudin can be either really good or really bad

Samardzija will walk anyone if you take a few pitches...had a nice debut but he's not ready.

Howry is worse than Samadrzija.

Hart won't be there.

Remember in 03 when Dusty had Veres on the roster as dead we have a whole bullpen of dead weight.

We're going to need some truly studly starts to get this done in the playoffs.

If you don't have Cedeno, that means either Fukudome or Fontentot start vs. LHP, which has not been Lou's MO for the past month.

Thank god for the days off in the playoff schedue -- Marmol is going to have to pitch every game (or at least the ones they have a chance to win).

The Mets are so bad they can't even beat a team that has nothing to play for. I WANT them in the first round lol...who's going to cough this thing up for the Cubs....errr 'close' the game?

Mets had the winning run at third, no outs, David Wright at the late, Bob Howry on the mound....and couldn't score. Then....BOOOOOM! go the Cub bats.

This game could wind up being payback for September 2004.


I am 2 and 1 when I watch a game at Wrigley this year.

I am 4 and 0 when I watch a Cubs game at a certain sports bar/restaurant in town.

I am 0 and 3 when I wear a Cubs t-shirt I bought a month ago. One of those losses was the one loss I saw at Wrigley.

Before the playoffs, I think I should wear the t-shirt to the restaurant, so I can see which magick is stronger.

Am I being too much of a dork about this? Or is this serious business that must be taken care of?

Keep in mind, your very happiness may depend on what I wear, and where.

To be on the safe side, you should wear no clothes to the restaurant.

That is what I was hoping you'd say. Consider it done.

Mets still only a game and a half behind Phils. Best thing that could happen is those two battling to the wire with Mets on top. Then let the Brewers have their fun this weekend - with the Phils out of playoffs, only LA with Manny and their pitching is threatening. Obviously, the Cubs could lose or beat anyone but as long as I'm wishing, I think I'd like Philly to stay home.

Of course, the Mets and Brewers are so bad, I'm not sure they can beat even half a decent team. Brewers had two hit tonight.

i realize that the cubs are 6-2 when i wear
my sergio mitre autographed cubs hat.

but i never did like him except for one
game vs. roy halliday
where he out pitched halliday

Which MFA program are you in, Rok, and how do you like it? I'm looking around for poetry programs right now.

yeah philly definately scares me the most

I was listening to discussion on XM about the upcoming weather approaching NY and Philly. Tomorrows game, if a washout might have to be played on monday (since the chance of the gave vs Houston is pretty small now, but not zero).

Having to travel before game 1 on Oct 1st (Wed)...will be a bizarro conclusion to the season. Hopefully it gets sorted out by sunday, as in The Marlins or Cubs putting one of those two teams (but not both) out of their misery...

Of course the entire weekend in both Philly/NY could be wiped out by rain from what I'm hearing. Two doubleheaders? Last game at Shea celebrated by mudwrestling match? That might even delay the start of the NL playoffs...Fox forbids that.

according to, rain should hit in the evening. Shouldn't they just move it to a day game? It's a get away day as is...

Chicago Cubs right fielder Mark DeRosa had to leave Wednesday's game against the New York Mets after suffering a left calf strain during an awkward slide into second base.

"I'll take two or three days off and see what happens," DeRosa said. "It's not something I'm too worried about."

He was scheduled to have tomorrow off as is for some lingering shoulder issue.

Rather than push the whole schedule back, they could eliminate the days off after games 2 and/or 4.

btw, what's wrong with DeRosa...something about a strained left calf...I didn't get to see what happened (please provide more details if there are any)...rotoworld says DeRo is day-to-day...aren't we all?

"...rotoworld says DeRo is day-to-day...aren't we all?"

How appropriate (and philosophical), coming from a man who practices in the Healing Arts. I suddenly feel the urge to assume the lotus position and meditate on this for a while....

Thursday night forcast for NYC looks bleak...Friday/Sat not so dry either.

NYC weather forcast:

Thursday Night...Rain. Patchy fog after midnight. Rain may be heavy at times after midnight. Lows in the upper 50s. Northeast winds 15 to 20 mph with gusts up to 30 mph. Chance of rain near 100 percent.

Friday...Rain with areas of fog. Rain may be heavy at times in the morning. Highs in the mid 60s. Northeast winds 10 to 15 mph. Chance of rain 90 percent.

Friday Night...Rain likely. Areas of fog. Lows around 60. Northeast winds 10 to 15 mph. Chance of rain 60 percent.

Saturday...Rain likely. Patchy fog. Highs in the lower 70s. Chance of rain 70 percent.

Saturday Night...Cloudy with a 40 percent chance of showers. Lows in the lower 60s.

if the cubs get rained out tomorrow, and the met's win the last three while the brewers lose 2 of three, the Cubs will probably only play 160 games.

damn, the Mets are terrible.

you couldn't gift wrap a game anymore than that for them.

gee another day of cedeno on thursday

lets hope a there is a fontenot siteing

That was a fun win, especially when it meant nothing to us, and everything to the Mets.
BUT, I would have rather lost that game 3-2 then win it like that.

- Zambrano with another bad outing..his last before the playoffs. (13ER last 6.1 innings)
- Smardjiza throwing several bad (0-2 double) or errant pitches (walk), and basically choking under the pressure of the situation.

Our bullpen is really a mess...Wood makes me nervous, but I think our 6th-7th inning relief is a major question mark.

We have a good offense that we can expect to score runs. We can't throw a pitcher out in game 1 who can potentially have a breakdown on the mound and give up 6 runs before you can blink.

"That was a fun win, especially when it meant nothing to us, and everything to the Mets.
BUT, I would have rather lost that game 3-2 then win it like that."

And losing 3-2 gives us a perceived advantage how, exactly?

We still have shitty middle relief. We know this.

Zambrano still has issues. Check.

This is "audition time" for the bubble players and actually I would rather they duke it out to see who is deserving of a roster spot (one reason why you may not see Daryle Ward on the roster, CHAD Gaudin, et. al.).

3-2 would mean that Z and relievers pitched a good game.
Duking it out is good....but I would much prefer having too many players playing well at the end of the season then too few.

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  • trevor clifton (high-A) could be interesting in a couple seasons...could even become a high/middle rotation guy. he's got a lot of pluses in his pitching except control.

    eric leal's (high-A) progression through the minors should be worth watching even if only projects to be an mid/end-rotation starter.

    we also gotta keep a long-distance eye on guys like jose paulino (ss-A) and preston morrison (A).

    crunch 18 min 13 sec ago view
  • As Johnny Bach used to say when it was time for the MJ Bulls to crank up the defensive pressure: "Release the Dobermans!", and Jordan, Pippen, Rodman and Harper would just suffocate the other team.

    I'd love to add Carl Jr. to that group - he's got the stuff.

    billybucks 38 min 6 sec ago view
  • Historically, the Moneyball guys have been great at identifying productive hitters. Not so much with pitchers.

    billybucks 39 min 17 sec ago view
  • Wow - Pierce Johnson with an ERA of 8.01 in 42IP!

    What a stud prospect! Must be pitching with a pierced johnson.

    Looks like Ryan Williams is the only legit prospect there. That is sad...

    The E-Man 41 min 28 sec ago view
  • Well it would seem that's all they need now. "Stropy" can have his moments, but he's been more consistent post-asg.

    The E-Man 50 min 15 sec ago view
  • Take THAT, Cardinals -- you beat Fernandez, we beat Sale.

    I really like Lackey as a 6-inning pitcher.

    billybucks 1 hour 17 min ago view
  • Three amigos? Because the Dominican, the Venezuelan, and the Cuban?

    Maybe the three-headed dragon?

    John Beasley 1 hour 32 min ago view
  • Who says Contreras can't frame? Stone cold robbery of Eaton with that called third strike for the first out in the eighth

    Eric S 2 hours 3 min ago view
  • Three amigos time?


    jacos 2 hours 18 min ago view
  • he should hit more of those. that would be an ideal outcome. /moneyballs

    crunch 6 hours 34 min ago view
  • Russell with 19 RBI in July so far. Grand Slams help.

    billybucks 7 hours 16 min ago view
  • ...and Familia with back-to-back blown saves. Blows a one-run lead vs. Rockies today, gets his 2nd consecutive loss.

    I am OK with the Mets missing the playoffs and suffering crushing losses at home --- just want them to beat St. Louis.

    He played with fire twice agains the Cubs -- unfortunately, the Cubs couldn't stop swinging.

    billybucks 7 hours 20 min ago view
  • How about Kyle Farnsworth? I know he was consistently upper 90s.

    videographer 9 hours 14 min ago view
  • If he puts up Soriano numbers I will be ecstatic

    jacos 11 hours 2 min ago view
  • I think Javy is learning--but he's learning to make contact, not learning to lay off pitches out of the zone. A quick glance at his plate discipline numbers on Fangraphs shows that his contact rate is up, especially his contact rate out of the zone, but his swing rate is up too, especially his swing rate out of the zone.

    Charlie 11 hours 37 min ago view
  • I definitely saw ballpark radar guns go up to 102 on Kerry Wood back when he was still a starter, but who knows how accurate they were.

    Charlie 11 hours 50 min ago view