Game 158 Thread / Cubs @ Mets (4 of 4)

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SP Rich Harden SP Pedro Martinez
(NL) 5-1, 1.66, 85 K, 25 BB, 65 IP
5-6, 5.50, 78 K, 40 BB, 103 IP
LF *Felix Pie SS #Jose Reyes
SS Ryan Theriot LF *Daniel Murphy
1B *Micah Hoffpauir 3B David Wright
CF *Jim Edmonds 1B *Carlos Delgado
2B *Mike Fontenot CF #Carlos Beltran
3B Casey McGehee RF *Ryan Church
RF *Kosuke Fukudome 2B Ramon Martinez
C #Koyie Hill C Robinson Cancel
P *Rich Harden P Pedro Martinez


The Cubs play their last-ever regular season game at The House That Jesse Gonder Built. In 44 years of play at Shea (the Mets played their first two years in the Polo Grounds), the Cubs have a 146-164 record.

Mark DeRosa and his strained calf muscle will enjoy tonight's game from the bench. Rich Harden makes his first-ever start against the Mets and Pedro Martinez, who is making his first start against the Cubs in 11 years, when he was still with the Expos.

A Cub win will give the team 97 wins for the first time since 1945.

WIth last night's extra-inning battle taxing the Mets' bullpen, Jerry Manuel has said he would consider using starter John Maine out of the pen tonight if/when he has to lift Pedro, who has only won twice in his last 11 starts.

I can't wait for all of these exhibition games to end so we can get down to real baseball.


AAA allstars!

hope this one is fun.

I think that the Chicagiowa Cubs have been 3-1, right? Not too shabby when you consider that they have been going against teams fighting for the playoffs.

Small sample size? You Betcha!

Think TBS/Fox could be much happier?

1 possible NY team (#1 TV DMA)
2 LA Teams (#2)
2 Possible Chicago teams (#3)
1 Possible Philly (#4)
1 Boston (#7 DMA, but huge following in region)

I suppose they could bitch about Tampa instead of the Yanks, but 7 large market teams is pretty damn lucky.

Now just watch the Brewers make the playoffs setting up the possibility of a Milwaukee/Tampa Bay World Series.

i would doubt that both milwuakee and new york jump philly. i would say they are going to the playoffs one way or the next.

yup...I was being technical because they haven't clinched yet.

Question: What happens if tonight's game is rained out? It looks like it will start, but they say once the rain starts, it ain't stopping.

If that happens, AND the Mets finish the season .5 game out, or .5 game ahead of the Brewers, then what?

Does that mean we have to fly to New York, to play one game, against a team that we would probably be better off losing to anyway? (I would rather play the Mets than the Dodgers round 1, wouldn't you?)

And, what happens if the seasons finishes with the Mets and Astros tied for WC, yet there is a game we missed against BOTH OF THEM! What kind of craziness would then ensue?

current radar looks like rain in Philly before it gets to NYC

Is this 3/44? I'd never seen it before.


now this is the way to get back at them for the Victor Diaz game. Did Hoffpauir grow up a huge Mets fan?

trying to get game suspended...

Yeah - CHAD and blockhead are right.

Why let Hoffpaiur have the last roster spot instead of Ward. Its not like he's earned it or anything.

I really, truly, despise people who do what you are doing.
I made one small comment, as the Hoff versus Ward argument is not a big deal to me. Get over it already.

Get this through your head I Don't care.

But obviously your inflated pathetic ego does, so win. You proved me wrong. Congrats big boy. Now shut up about it.

One thing about the internet is you cannot see people's expressions. I wrote the comments to your opinion, totally tongue-in-cheek. This is a place where if you write your opinions - they are always fair game - including facetious comments. I truly, really despise people who take it too seriously. So I'll shut up, and you can kiss my ass. OK?

Hoffpower imposing his will upon the Mets and forcing the pennant race, as an entirety, to look on his works and despair

This series isn't giving me any extra confidence in our bullpen, thats for sure.

Lou must want to face the Mets in the NLDS. Why else does he go with Howry to relieve Cotts in the 8th?

Kevin Hart in a tie game in the 9th...if the Mets can't win this game they SUCK hard and long.

Ok they did what was the Pirates have to do their part.

I hate losing to these fucks. I really do, even if it was a reasonably losable game. I fucking hate losing to the Mets.

Personally I'm rooting for the Mets to be the wild card. I think the Brewers have the potential to be a much tougher opponent should we have to face them in the NLCS.

What? We lost with Howry and Hart pitching? Impossoble.

Thought for sure you were going with the always enjoyable Ralph Wiggum "Unpossible." Alas, you duped me.

Also, I couldn't help but scream "GOD DAMNIT BARRETT" on that play at the plate. Just thought it was funny.

Finally, it's unfortunate that Koyie could not get Bob cranked up to 96 this evening. He really needed it tonight.

or as the Mets announcers (XM) called him "KOY-LEE" Hill

Is HowryPower the opposite of HoffPower?

absofrigginlutely. the bench now has "home run hoffy" to offset the bullpen's "home run howry". this must be the year...

Interesting discussion on Chad's part in the other thread about Theriot being shit.

I was just thrilled with the comment about him not being in a slump, rather him coming back to earth.

Yeah, if you can hit for 5 straight months, thats not coming back to earth, that isn't being lucky, that is skill and talent.

The biggest point being missed is what i like to call "best bang for your dollar" which Theriot provides. Unless your the Yankees you can't put All-Stars at every position and the Cubs have some serious cash already invested in Soriano, Lee, Ramirez, and Fukudome. Any organizations goal is to fill out the roster around their stars with players who simply wont embarrass you when they play. Theriot isn't the best, but he holds his own and isn't a black hole of death with the glove or the bat.

We could, and have in the past, wasted millions to find someone below average to cover the position who is either a major liability with the bat or glove or both.

We can look for a SS in the off-season but we arent desperate for one. CF is of more we entrust it to a worn down old vet on his last legs or do we give Pie another chance to figure out how to hit a curveball? I wouldn't trust either option.

Theriot isn't the best SS out there, but there is no way anyone sane could possibly want Cedeno over him. Theriot is the best SS WE'VE had for a long time. To me, the time of the all glove, no bat SS has come to an end in baseball with all the excellent hitters out there, and the Izturises out there are simply no longer worth carrying. There's a reason he isn't on winning teams.

I hope we start looking at getting a SS who might actually compete in the OPS department.

Whole lot of pitchers on the Cubs pitching themselves into Lou's dog house.
Let's hope starters go at least 7 in every playoff game. Our middle relief is no better than the Mets.

No discussion of Harden in this thread...I missed the game entirely--how'd he look? Gameday said his fastball was around 89.

couldn't throw strikes and wasn't letting loose on his fastball. Yet, no one scores on him. The 2-run double off him is a play that Derrek Lee probably makes. Of course, Hoffpauir more than made up for it.

thanks Rob.

Amusing article in NY Times about pilots and Shea Stadium:

Thanks for sharing, Andy. Amazing article -- stadiums are more than we think they are. Even if I think Shea is a dump, some pilots with 1,800+ maneuevers in their career all along the park must think otherwise.

WSux no longer the AL Central leader

The Twins won after being down 6-1, I think. Life makes sense all over again after seeing Denard Span celebrate like a child after hitting a game-tying 3B in the bottom of the eighth. That city deserves a postseason berth.

Perhaps so, but not more than we deserve it

anyone else?

Z, Harden, Dempster, Lilly
Marquis, Marshall, Wood, Marmol, Cotts, Samardzija

like you'd ever want to use Howry, Hart or Gaudin for anything.

I'd at least carry Gaudin. He was effective at times this season and I give him a shot in low-leverage situations (if any truly low-leverage situations emerge) to show whether he's recovered from the injury or not. Howry and Hart, though, seem like the type that should only pitch in blowouts at this point. That's not valuable enough to drop a exclude another position player.

I would like to see the Cubs blow out some people in the playoffs. Better that than those nailbiters.

Even against the B-team (or should I say the H-team; Go Hoff-Power!!), the Mets barely scratched out a win. That doesn't bode well for them.

Gaudin & Howry vs. Pie & Ward. Let's split the difference, one shit pitcher (Gaudin) and one shit position player (Pie). Gaudin has at times looked good this season and Pie can be a defensive replacement/pinch runner. Hopefully, none of this group will see any meaningful playing time in the playoffs.

We should probably have 11 incase somebody gets shelled and you have to use the pen for 6 1/3 innings in a game. The safe spots are likely:

P (10): Demp, Harden, Z, Lilly, Wood, Marmol, Cotts, Shark, Marshall, Marquis
H: (13): Soto, Dlee, Dero, Theriot, Aram, Sori, Edmonds, Fukudome, Johnson, Blanco, Cedeno, Fontenot, atleast one of Hoff (my pick)/Dward

So thats 23 of the 25 spots. The only hitters who have a chance are Pie or the other of Hoff/wardosourous. I am assuming the only other P they would think about is Gaudin. I dont think he would be any worse a pick than either Pie or Ward. I would go with Pie and Gaudin for the last 2 spots myself. I wonder why Jimbo did not get a RH bench bat at some point its about the only glaring weakness on this team as an October team. I mean really the Rangers were practally ready to dump Nelson Cruz at points this season, we could have probably had for a Randy Wells type.

This is going to sound nuts but how about Jason Marquis for the 7th inning?

i would definately put marquis in relief and let him
pitch this weekend possibly on friday and sunday
lets get him use to his new role

Not only do you get to first base slower when diving, but you also risk injurying yourself:

"Backup middle infielder Ronny Cedeno was scratched from Thursday's lineup because of a shoulder strain he suffered with an ill-advised dive into first base trying to beat out a grounder. He's expected to miss at least tonight's series opener in Milwaukee."

Baseball retarded.

Right-hander Randy Wells, who was recalled from Class AAA Iowa when rosters expanded this month, has a stress fracture in his right forearm and has been shut down.

That's a shame. He did a nice job in Sept.

Best middle-relief Sept. callup, for sure.

Sorry if this is 3/44, but this video of the Vedder song is pretty good:

Not that this really matters to the Cubs, but in the 8th inning when Church scored, why wasn't he called out for running out of the baseline? He was a good 6-8 feet into foul territory. I don't think I've ever seen that called on a play at the plate, but why not? The umpires call it appropriately in the other basepaths. And it's strictly enforced on the first base line when the catcher hits the runner on a throw to first. Just wondering.

Good question. You are right, it is rarely called at home plate.

The relevant rule is 7.08(a)(1)

Any runner is out when --
(a) (1) He runs more than three feet away from his baseline to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball. A runner’s baseline is established when the tag attempt occurs and is a straight line from the runner to the base he is attempting to reach safely;

So I don't think you are expected to always be within 3 feet of the chalk. They anticipate that by "rounding" square bases you sometimes end up outside. When Hill caught the ball and made the tag attempt, Church was already running on the grass just off of the dirt. He didn't move 3 MORE feet into the grass off of the imaginary line from where he was then to home plate. In fact, if you watch the video, he pretty much runs straight the entire time, Hill was just too far inside to tag him.

Agreed - you're not always expected to be within 3 feet of the baseline. I never knew the second sentence in the above rule; that's interesting.

According to the way the rule reads, I would agree, Church didn't go 3 more feet out of the way to avoid the tag. However, when he got to home plate, he was probably 5 feet away, as evidenced by the fact that he needed to dive back to touch the plate. So if you draw that imaginary line from where he was when the tag attempt occurred, it ends at the plate, right? So then he's 5 feet away from the line, and therefore, out of the baseline.

I'm really nit-picking here, and sort of playing devil's advocate, and it doesn't matter at all to the Cubs. But what else is there to talk about today, right?

Oh, I guess we could talk about how Hart and Howry have proven they don't belong on the postseason roster. Or how Hoffpauir has proven that he clearly does.

I did like the idea about using Marquis as the 7th inning reliever. Outside of Marmol and Wood, he's the best non-starter (in the playoffs) we have.

Yeah, I'm not sure I understand it completely either. Your first point is the most important I think - they never call it at home. First base is easy to call it on. And you will see them do it if a runner is running into a tag on a ground ball and clearly tries to run around a guy on his way to 2nd or 3rd. But on a play at the plate - rarely. No one wants to make that call, especially at home in a crucial game like that.

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    John Beasley 34 min 54 sec ago view
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    Baseball Reference

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    Traditional stats


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