Delusions of Grandeur
Submitted by Rob G. on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 11:57am
Kansas City is focused on Sean Marshall and Mike Fontenot in talks with the Cubs about Mark Teahen. …
That is according to a Phil Rogers article.
That's great, I'm focused on solving world peace after I cure cancer, which will all happen after I retire at age 35 because the charming widow across the street is really the heir to the Buffett family fortune and appreciates when I roll her garbage can up her driveway on Tuesdays.
Let's just say I don't see either one happening.
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#1 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
I wouldn't give up Marshall alone for Teahen...but maybe Fonte.
#2 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
the Marshall shit is ridiculous, Teahen can play some more positions than Fontenot so I guess he's more of a "NL player" that I could possibly see that happening. Not that I would do it...
If it's both, that's just fucking nuts...
#3 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
Word, my cracka'. I'd probably do Fontenot, because he's really a backup (a good back-up, mind you), and Teahen still has more of that so-called potential. He could still turn into a good everyday player, but if not, he'd be a pretty good bench dude. Maybe.
Someone here also mentioned Hendry's knack for getting guys right before they break out, so I've got that hope.
I'd rather turn Marquis into something...even if it's a loogy...and using Marshall as a 4th or 5th. The other spot being reserved for Harden.
Or maybe we can turn Marquis and Theriot into Hanley?
#4 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
Didn't the Cubs already try Jody Gerut? That went well.
#5 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
He had a great year last year though. If we had him NOW, we might just roll with that as our LH-hitting option.
#19 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
It wasn't like Gerut didn't work out for the Cubs. He was just never here long enough to show what he could really do. IIRC, he was still healing from an injury when we got him.
#31 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
Believe you're right. He was still wearing that big ass DonJoy knee brace under his pinstripes after his ACL tear if I recall properly.
Although I'm a Tribe fan too, so that could have been when he was with them
#6 AFL Finals
on mlb.com
6th inning, Mesa up 4-3 but 2 on for the Phoenix Desert Dogs with one out
#7 Re: AFL Finals
make it 5-4 Phoenix, no one from the Cubs seems to have played yet.
#9 Re: AFL Finals
3-run dinger, Josh Donaldson....that's gonna suck when he's awesome for the A's.
9-4 Phoenix, still haven't seen a Cubbie.
#10 Re: AFL Finals
alright, I've seen 3 or 4 Marlins pitchers, but not a Cub yet.
fwiw, the Marlins pitchers aren't very good...
#12 Re: AFL Finals
Caridad is in...finally.
3.94 ERA, 16 IP, 17 K, 5 BB so far...
bottom of the 8th.
#8 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
i think KC (rumor mongers) might underestimate how much both hendry and lou are fonte-fans.
weird looking and weirder talking little guy.
i could see either/or (fonte/marshall), but both would be a high price especially with cedeno falling flat on his face in winter ball so far.
#11 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
I think the time is right to strike on a Fontenaught trade, if anyone seems him as a full-time major league starter. Keep in mind this is a guy who played in the highest levels of collegiate baseball and then took 7 years to get establihed in the majors. He's got 2700 PA's minor league PA's of .800 OPS on his record and doesn't have much to offer other than a pretty good dead pull line drive stroke.
I'm not a fan of Teahen unless, as I mentioned a few days ago, the Cubs coaches and scouts are sure his power stroke can be fixed.
#14 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
Buy low, sell high. Trade DeRosa, not Fontenot. They're the same hitter, and you get more for DeRosa. And Fontenot's younger, although a lot of people who participate here will scratch their heads and wonder why that should make a difference. Isn't older better?
Strange, Neal, that you think Fontenot is a dead pull hitter.
And speaking of youth, I love the way Billy Beane got Hendry to "throw in" Donaldson as the fourth player in that Harden-Gallagher deal. In public, other GMs rave about what a nice guy Hendry is. I wonder what they say in private.
#16 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
dont think anyone treated donaldson as a "throw-in"
both teams knew his potential i'd imagine.
#17 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
And speaking of youth, I love the way Billy Beane got Hendry to "throw
in" Donaldson as the fourth player in that Harden-Gallagher deal. In
public, other GMs rave about what a nice guy Hendry is. I wonder what
they say in private.
"Damn, I wish we won 97 games last year and made the playoffs 3 of the last 6 years."
except Theo Epstein...who says, "Damn, that Bill James is smart."
Fontenot's hitting chart...too painful to go through all of it, his Wrigley hitting seemed to show a lot more going the other way.
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/stats/individual_playe...
#27 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
I stand corrected. He's a 'tries to be' pull hitter. Teams would be wise to do the Ted Williams shift when he comes up. 8 of his 12 HR' have been to right or right center.
Regardless, he's not a .900 OPS player, so if we can find a team that thinks he is and will trade accordingly for him, make the deal.
DeRosa isn't going anywhere.
#29 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
fontenot has 1.4 years of service time and another 2-3 wikid cheap years left.
and not many people are .900 OPS players...especially low-medium power guys like fontenot. soriano's done it twice.
#33 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
[Did it again. This was a reply to #27.]
I know DeRosa isn't going anywhere. Believe me, I know it. The question is why. There are four right-handed hitters who usually bat ahead of DeRosa in the lineup. Three of them have NTCs and the other is Soto. So if you want to be more left-handed (hitting and pitching), isn't DeRosa the guy you have to trade?
I know he's good. So what? That just means you get something good, or better, for him, but something more along the lines of what you're missing.
#38 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
I am pretty sure that you may be the only person that watches baseball who may believe that Fontenot and DeRosa are the same player, and have similar levels of abilities.
#41 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
These are the things that DeRosa can do that Fontenot cannot (or hasn't shown the ability to).
1. Play SS
2. Play 3rd
3. Play 1st
4. Play RF
5. Play LF
6. Hit Lefties
#52 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
If you have a left-handed hitting right fielder, which the Cubs are apparently looking for, and Fontenot at second, what purpose is served by DeRosa playing third and first and right and left? Those positions are taken.
As to short, according to BR, DeRosa played one game there in 2008 and one in 2007. Fontenot played one game at short in 2008 and three in 2007.
I'm not knocking DeRosa, although it's hard for people to understand that when you suggest trading someone. It's just that he's another right handed hitter on a team that (a) claims to be too right handed and (b) has passed out NTCs like candy to the other righty hitters.
#57 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
If this were the Oakland A's and not the Chicago Cubs, then your recommendation to trade DeRosa would be spot on.
#18 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
I think everyone with a brain thinks Murton and maybe Patterson were the throw-ins, Gallagher and Donaldson were the big losses.
#32 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
"everyone with a brain"--are you excluding TCR regulars? Because I don't recall anyone on TCR lamenting the loss of Donaldson, who wasn't hitting at the time. Or Gallagher, for that matter. The consensus seemed to be that Gallagher was balanced pretty well by Gaudin, and the Cubs had gotten Harden basically for nothing. Poor Billy Beane, trying to match wits with our guy.
(Full disclosure: AZ Phil liked Donaldson the minute he saw him and rated him as the Cubs' best hitting prospect; but that was not part of the discussion after the trade, unless I missed something.)
When Harden was scheduled for a shoulder exam in October, voices on this blog agreed that if surgery was indicated, the Cubs should not renew his option. Harden's Cub career would have spanned twelve games. Shoulder surgery or not, a Harden who lost his good fastball in time for the playoffs was not what we had expected, but I don't recall anyone on TCR saying, Maybe it wasn't such a good trade after all.
Hendry should be called to task for these things, preferably before the winter meetings, because he's getting ready to trade more prospects.
#36 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
What exactly should Hendry be called to task for on this one? Because he didn't rob the A's blind? You have to give up something to get something. In this case Hendry basically gave up Gallagher and the potential of Donaldson for Harden and Gaudin. He threw in two players - Murton and Patterson - who didn't have much of a place in the organization and likely won't be much of anything at the big league level.
He got a starting pitcher with an ERA+ of 252!! for 12 starts during the stretch run in a season in which the team was making a run for the playoffs. This pitcher, when healthy is one of the best in the majors, and he is still under club control for next year, unlike Sabathia, for example. In the same deal he also obtained Chad Gaudin, a long-reliever, spot starter, who is also under club control. And he should not have made this deal because Donaldson MIGHT become something 3-4 years down the road? Because he is having a good AFL season?
Here is a list of prospects that Hendry has traded away to date (I will have all of this uploaded to Wiklifield at some point). He gave up very little and got a lot for these players. This is also not mentioning the many good prospects he has fleeced from others for crappy veterans. At this point I will trust his judgment - even if Donaldson turns out to be amazing a few years from now.
Ryan Gripp
Jae Kuk Ryu
David Noyce
Gary Johnson
Derrin Ebert
Wilton Chavez
Ronald Bay
Jason Dubois
Travis Ezi
Hee Seop Choi
Matt Bruback
Bobby Hill
Jason Fransz
Mike Nannini
Felix Sanchez
Damian Jackson
Jimmy Anderson
Justin Jones
Francis Beltran
Brendan Harris
Sergio Mitre
Renyel Pinto
Ricky Nolasco
Todd Wellemyer
John Koronka
Carlos Vasquez
Jeremy Blevins
Clay Rapada
Buck Coats
Scott Moore
Rocky Cherry
Jacob Renshaw
Sean Gallagher
Josh Donaldson
Eric Patterson
#42 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
That's a remarkable list. Pinto and Nolasco are the only ones on there that I even remotely miss. I'm typically not very ctitical of the deals that Hendry makes, but I do really wish we had that Pierre deal back.
#43 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
There's a few guys there who have had nice season, Harris and Wellemeyer, for instance, but when you consider who those players brought back in return, I doubt there's a similarily tenured GM who could show the same, AND have the same reputation among his peers.
#53 Re: Delusions of Grandeur
Nice prospect list, but they're all pre-Wilken, except for Donaldson, who is the fifth highest pick (#48) in Wilken's three drafts. Wilken knows how to draft position players, so you trade them at your own risk. Before Wilken, the Cubs could occasionally draft a pitcher but almost never a position player, so it was safe to trade a Bobby Hill or a Choi if you could get somebody else to bite. With Wilken, the game has changed. Donaldson and Vitters and Colvin and Flaherty were not drafted to be traded.
How do you build a team around guys like Hamels and Rollins and Utley and Howard except by drafting them?
This Cub team isn't assembled right. It's built for the all-star game, not the playoffs. That's why, of eight teams in the playoffs, only the Cubs fell flat on their faces and embarrassed their fans. Even the Brewers won a game.
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