Submitted by The Real Neal on Mon, 12/01/2008 - 8:24pm.
2 sandwich picks are probably worth $4 million dollars, so the Cubs trade get rid of Ceda and Wood for Gregg and roughly $2 million in savings. It's not shaping up as a good off-season for Hendry. He's going to have to pull one or two of his pattened out-of-his-ass moves to make up for it now.
lumping wood's situation with gregg/ceda isn't very fair, though. wood was destined to go anyway...though i'm surprised they didnt offer arbitration.
wood's going cuz the team doesnt seem to want to put 10m+ into a reliever. i didn't think they'd want to make this damn sure he wasn't going to be on the books, though.
yeah, but the money seems to be driving the whole thing.
i'm a bit blown away by this 09 team construction being this heavily effected by k.wood's possible 10m worth scaring the team from arbitration.
it also makes me think kerry wood could have actually been serious about a desire to stay in chicago for a season.
with hendry's known wishes and this screwed up economy i can't tell if hendry has his eyes set on a high-end bat addition, has his scope pretty tightly on peavy, or there's increasingly more pressure on the team's budget. hell, i would bring "new owners" speculation, but that's even more wildly speculative than the unknown crap i listed before it.
weird situation...fan favorite...we're probably gonna be hearing about this one in the papers soon and for a while.
You hit the nail right on the head there. It seems Jimbo doesnt have a plan. If you couldnt take the chance that Wood accepts arbitration, then why even trade for Gregg or even go after Peavy when we already have as good of a rotation as anyone? He is likely to get 4 mil in arbitration and he is just an average pen arm. The likelyhood is that one of the young guys like Ascanio, Berg, or Guzman given the chance could be just as realible as Gregg for minium wage, freeing up more of our apperently limited dollars on southpawing up our lineup. Given its very likely the Brewers are going to have no Sabathia or Sheets, we are going to start the season likely 10-12 games better on paper than the rest of division given we would have almost the same roster, effectively only bascially trading Wood for a RF upgrade. It would be the perfect sitution to go with a young bullpen and see what sticks and if need be make upgrades in July and August.
Submitted by Dr. aaron b on Wed, 12/03/2008 - 10:25am.
Any chance this is just Jimbo trying to help Woody earn some extra money? Its not out of the realm of possibility that Hendry could do something like that.
Exibit
A)Aramis' one way player option
B)Henry Blanco's 4 million dollar option
C) NTC's in every player of Note's contract
D) The Utter fear that Hendry has shown to go to arbitration
I hope it isn't the case. But I think Jim Hendry showed he has the Nuts of a "Ken Doll" with this move.
Submitted by The Real Neal on Mon, 12/01/2008 - 10:16pm.
Say you get your paycheck and it's $600, which is cool because that's enough for the week to pay all your bills. Then you're walking home and you see a $20 blowing across the street. Do you say 'good thing I got paid today, or I would pick up that $20."? No, you pick up the $20 and put it in your pocket.
It's all the same organization, it's all the same ledger. Protecting yourself from having to pay a superior player $10 million, by trading a valuable commodity (maybe a $5 million value, like Ceda) for an inferior player who you have to pay $4 million for - a player who's probably not worth more than his 2008 salary, makes a shit load less sense, if you throw away $4 million worth of prospects.
It makes even less sense if you don't make Gregg the closer, because that's going to decrease his market value for 2009, when ideally you want to get type A compensation for him as well.
Submitted by The Real Neal on Mon, 12/01/2008 - 10:27pm.
No, it's about assets and liabilities. Giving up assets like draft picks and prospects, and replacing them with no value players won't make any potential owner happy.
Submitted by John Beasley on Mon, 12/01/2008 - 9:15pm.
July 27, 2009
CHICAGO - Desperate to shore up a middle-relief core that's continuously failed to get the ball to closer Carlos Marmol, the Cubs today acquired right-handed relief pitcher Fernando Rodney from the Detroit Tigers for pitcher Sean Marshall, outfielder Felix Pie and infielder Micah Hoffpauir.
Submitted by CPH2133 on Tue, 12/02/2008 - 11:29am.
Scared me a little because I didnt look at the date, just got excited when i saw Rodney..then got sad when i saw what we "gave" up for him...then excited again when i saw the date. very tricky mr. beasley
Submitted by Bleeding Blue on Mon, 12/01/2008 - 9:19pm.
This is just dumb. Really fucking dumb.
Lou even comments about how he'd like another bullpen arm, so why would you ever turn down the opportunity for first round draft picks when the "downside" is having to bring back your (now ex)closer for one year?
Submitted by Charlie on Tue, 12/02/2008 - 12:34pm.
He's cutting salary in the wrong places. Marquis is the guy we can replace, not Wood.
Plus--trading Ceda for Gregg costs an extra $4 million or so. Combine that with Marquis's salary and acquiring Gregg and keeping Marquis costs about $13 million, whereas signing Wood and keeping Ceda would cost a little over $10 million, probably.
Hendry is handcuffed by Lee, Ramirez, and Soriano's salaries, but Marquis is probably tradeable (if he doesn't ask for anything but salary relief in return) and Marquis is also replaceable (Marshall, Gaudin, Samardzija, etc.). It's a really poor use of the team's resources.
Sure, he's tradeable but not in late November. Marquis will be of much greater interest once the FA pitchers start signing and teams find out where they are. To trade him now, you'd have to eat half his salary and then what's the point of doing it? Wood's situation as a FA and Marquis' as a signed pitcher are completely different.
Right. Unfortunately Wood's situation was always going to have to be resolved before Marquis' otherwise the story might have played out completely differently.
Submitted by Jim Hickmans Bat on Mon, 12/01/2008 - 9:52pm.
I'm sorry, but I disagree with the Hendry bashing on this one. He simply could NOT risk the chance that (a) Wood accepts arbitration, and (b) gets $9-$10MM in the hearing. That would destroy Hendry's budget, and it sure seems like he wants to go after a Bobby Abreu or maybe Jake Peavy.
I love Woody, but closers just aren't worth the money they are paid for pitching 60 innings a year. That kind of money is much better spent on an everyday position player or a starting pitcher. I agree they now need a setup man, but those cost a fraction of what Wood will get.
BTW, Yanks did not offer arbitration to Abreu, so you see it cuts both ways. That would seem to be an even bigger no-brainer than Wood.
Submitted by The E-Man on Mon, 12/01/2008 - 10:18pm.
Indeed - John Smoltz was not offered arbitration, either. Yep - he was injured that last half of 2008, but the Braves will certainly offer him less money on a 1-yr deal.
I wonder if this is completely out of the question with Woody, in light of the current economic conditions now?
Submitted by The Real Neal on Mon, 12/01/2008 - 10:25pm.
If the Cubs are running out of room in their 2008 budget, who's fault is that?
In 2007 they spent, what, $7 millon on Wood, and another $6 on Howry and Eyre? Howry and Eyre are gone, so where is that money going to? Well it's going to Dempster, Gregg and Marquis and a to be determined LH hitter. It's not Wood's fault that Hendry struck out on Fukudome, or that he gave Marquis that backloaded contract, or that he traded for yet another $4 million setup man.
"There has been speculation that Cubs manager Lou Piniella became exasperated with Wood last season when he missed about a month with a blister on his right hand."
2010 CUBS MLB PAYROLL: $134.8M NOTE: Total does not include performance bonuses not yet earned, and signing bonuses are only included if all or part of the bonus is actually paid this season
+ Player has "NO TRADE" rights NOTE: Byrd, Grabow, and Nady have "no trade" only through 6/15/2010
SIGNED FOR 2010
+ 12 Alfonso Soriano, OF - $18M
+ 38 Carlos Zambrano, RHP - $17.875M
+ 16 Aramis Ramirez, 3B - $15.75M
+ 1 Kosuke Fukudome, OF - $13M
+ 25 Derrek Lee, 1B - $13M
+ 46 Ryan Dempster, RHP - $12.5M
+ 30 Ted Lilly, LHP - $12M
52 Carlos Silva, RHP - $6M (see NOTE)
+ 22 Xavier Nady, OF - $3.3M
+ 43 John Grabow, LHP - $3.25M
+ 24 Marlon Byrd, OF - $3M
+ 29 Jeff Samardzija, RHP - $2.5M
49 Carlos Marmol, RHP - $2.125M
17 Mike Fontenot, 2B - $1M
28 Jeff Baker, INF - $975K
45 Sean Marshall, LHP - $950K
37 Angel Guzman, RHP - $825K
32 Tom Gorzelanny, LHP - $800K
55 Koyie Hill, C - $700K SUB-TOTAL (SIGNED PLAYERS): $127.55M NOTE: Mariners pay $5.5M of Silva's $11.5M salary in 2010.
OTHER:
Aaron Miles - $1M (traded to A's) SUB-TOTAL (OTHER): $1M
SALARY ARBITRATION:
2 Ryan Theriot, SS ($2.6M - $3.4M) PROJECTED SUB-TOTAL (SALARY ARBITRATION): $3M
AUTO-RENEWAL:
63 James Adduci, OF
60 Mitch Atkins, RHP
64 Justin Berg, RHP
13 Andres Blanco, INF
33 Esmailin Caridad, RHP
72 Welington Castillo, C
21 Tyler Colvin, OF
66 Rafael Dolis, RHP
27 Sam Fuld, OF
48 John Gaub, LHP
34 Jeff Gray, RHP
6 Micah Hoffpauir, 1B
62 Marcos Mateo, RHP
47 Mike Parisi, RHP
58 Blake Parker, RHP
54 David Patton, RHP
18 Geovany Soto, C
44 Jeff Stevens, RHP
36 Randy Wells, RHP PROJECTED SUB-TOTAL (AUTO-RENEWAL): $3.25M (includes estimated $1M in split salaries for players on 40-man roster who are on Optional Assignment to minors) NOTE: An auto-renewal player can have his contract automatically renewed by the club during the first week of March if an agreement is not reached by that time.
The 2010 MLB mimimum salary is $400K, with a $65K minor league split minimum ($32.5K minor league split minimum for players with no MLB Service Time who are on 40-man roster for the first time), and minor league split salary must be at least 60% of what player was actually paid in salary the previous season.
SPRING TRAINING NRI:
70 Andrew Cashner, RHP
79 Casey Coleman, RHP
20 Thomas Diamond, RHP
78 Jeff Kennard, RHP
68 J. R. Mathes, LHP
53 Vince Perkins, RHP
76 James Russell, LHP
71 Robinson Chirinos, C
74 Steve Clevenger, C-1B
73 Blake Lalli, C-1B
75 Chris Robinson, C
65 Darwin Barney, INF
57 Matt Camp, IF-OF
67 Starlin Castro, INF
4 Bryan Lahair, 1B-OF
Kevin Millar, 1B-OF
15 Bobby Scales, IF-OF
9 Chad Tracy, 1B-3B
61 Josh Vitters, 3B
59 Brett Jackson, OF
56 Brad Snyder, OF
#1 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
2 sandwich picks are probably worth $4 million dollars, so the Cubs trade get rid of Ceda and Wood for Gregg and roughly $2 million in savings. It's not shaping up as a good off-season for Hendry. He's going to have to pull one or two of his pattened out-of-his-ass moves to make up for it now.
#12 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
meh.
lumping wood's situation with gregg/ceda isn't very fair, though. wood was destined to go anyway...though i'm surprised they didnt offer arbitration.
wood's going cuz the team doesnt seem to want to put 10m+ into a reliever. i didn't think they'd want to make this damn sure he wasn't going to be on the books, though.
#13 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
when I was bitching about trading Ceda, some said we'd get some draft picks for Wood....
I understand Gregg is the fallback for losing Wood, but I think I'd rather have Wood/Ceda over Gregg, Cotts, Wuertz and Gaudin to be honest.
#15 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
yeah, but the money seems to be driving the whole thing.
i'm a bit blown away by this 09 team construction being this heavily effected by k.wood's possible 10m worth scaring the team from arbitration.
it also makes me think kerry wood could have actually been serious about a desire to stay in chicago for a season.
with hendry's known wishes and this screwed up economy i can't tell if hendry has his eyes set on a high-end bat addition, has his scope pretty tightly on peavy, or there's increasingly more pressure on the team's budget. hell, i would bring "new owners" speculation, but that's even more wildly speculative than the unknown crap i listed before it.
weird situation...fan favorite...we're probably gonna be hearing about this one in the papers soon and for a while.
#27 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
You hit the nail right on the head there. It seems Jimbo doesnt have a plan. If you couldnt take the chance that Wood accepts arbitration, then why even trade for Gregg or even go after Peavy when we already have as good of a rotation as anyone? He is likely to get 4 mil in arbitration and he is just an average pen arm. The likelyhood is that one of the young guys like Ascanio, Berg, or Guzman given the chance could be just as realible as Gregg for minium wage, freeing up more of our apperently limited dollars on southpawing up our lineup. Given its very likely the Brewers are going to have no Sabathia or Sheets, we are going to start the season likely 10-12 games better on paper than the rest of division given we would have almost the same roster, effectively only bascially trading Wood for a RF upgrade. It would be the perfect sitution to go with a young bullpen and see what sticks and if need be make upgrades in July and August.
#108 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
Any chance this is just Jimbo trying to help Woody earn some extra money? Its not out of the realm of possibility that Hendry could do something like that.
Exibit
A)Aramis' one way player option
B)Henry Blanco's 4 million dollar option
C) NTC's in every player of Note's contract
D) The Utter fear that Hendry has shown to go to arbitration
I hope it isn't the case. But I think Jim Hendry showed he has the Nuts of a "Ken Doll" with this move.
#14 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
Say you get your paycheck and it's $600, which is cool because that's enough for the week to pay all your bills. Then you're walking home and you see a $20 blowing across the street. Do you say 'good thing I got paid today, or I would pick up that $20."? No, you pick up the $20 and put it in your pocket.
It's all the same organization, it's all the same ledger. Protecting yourself from having to pay a superior player $10 million, by trading a valuable commodity (maybe a $5 million value, like Ceda) for an inferior player who you have to pay $4 million for - a player who's probably not worth more than his 2008 salary, makes a shit load less sense, if you throw away $4 million worth of prospects.
It makes even less sense if you don't make Gregg the closer, because that's going to decrease his market value for 2009, when ideally you want to get type A compensation for him as well.
#17 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
well if you wanna go straight by the money you need to re-do your original cash savings to 10m rather than 2m.
it's about money and the 09 vision of the team...at least it seems that way.
#19 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
No, it's about assets and liabilities. Giving up assets like draft picks and prospects, and replacing them with no value players won't make any potential owner happy.
#2 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
Fuck you Hendry.
#4 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
Fuck you Hendry.
+1
#8 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
Wrong board for "+1" stuff...
#3 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
Hendry's 2009 budget must be a lot tighter than we originally thought.
#5 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
Howry also not offered.
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/13084...
#6 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
July 27, 2009
CHICAGO - Desperate to shore up a middle-relief core that's continuously failed to get the ball to closer Carlos Marmol, the Cubs today acquired right-handed relief pitcher Fernando Rodney from the Detroit Tigers for pitcher Sean Marshall, outfielder Felix Pie and infielder Micah Hoffpauir.
#42 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
Scared me a little because I didnt look at the date, just got excited when i saw Rodney..then got sad when i saw what we "gave" up for him...then excited again when i saw the date. very tricky mr. beasley
#7 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
This is just dumb. Really fucking dumb.
Lou even comments about how he'd like another bullpen arm, so why would you ever turn down the opportunity for first round draft picks when the "downside" is having to bring back your (now ex)closer for one year?
just fucking dumb
#9 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
Lou not only wants a reliever, but experience matters. Wood only has 10 years of that.
This makes no sense at all. Losing Wood and gaining nothing while also still needing an effective relief pitcher.
#10 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
$$$$$$$$$$
#55 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
He's cutting salary in the wrong places. Marquis is the guy we can replace, not Wood.
Plus--trading Ceda for Gregg costs an extra $4 million or so. Combine that with Marquis's salary and acquiring Gregg and keeping Marquis costs about $13 million, whereas signing Wood and keeping Ceda would cost a little over $10 million, probably.
Hendry is handcuffed by Lee, Ramirez, and Soriano's salaries, but Marquis is probably tradeable (if he doesn't ask for anything but salary relief in return) and Marquis is also replaceable (Marshall, Gaudin, Samardzija, etc.). It's a really poor use of the team's resources.
#59 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
Sure, he's tradeable but not in late November. Marquis will be of much greater interest once the FA pitchers start signing and teams find out where they are. To trade him now, you'd have to eat half his salary and then what's the point of doing it? Wood's situation as a FA and Marquis' as a signed pitcher are completely different.
#74 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
They're different but they're also interdepent - or rather they were.
#81 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
Right. Unfortunately Wood's situation was always going to have to be resolved before Marquis' otherwise the story might have played out completely differently.
#96 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
Since Crunch is apparently asleep at the wheel, I'll step in.
Marquis is an excellent #5 starter. People that believe we need to jettison him are valuing him incorrectly.
#11 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
I'm sorry, but I disagree with the Hendry bashing on this one. He simply could NOT risk the chance that (a) Wood accepts arbitration, and (b) gets $9-$10MM in the hearing. That would destroy Hendry's budget, and it sure seems like he wants to go after a Bobby Abreu or maybe Jake Peavy.
I love Woody, but closers just aren't worth the money they are paid for pitching 60 innings a year. That kind of money is much better spent on an everyday position player or a starting pitcher. I agree they now need a setup man, but those cost a fraction of what Wood will get.
BTW, Yanks did not offer arbitration to Abreu, so you see it cuts both ways. That would seem to be an even bigger no-brainer than Wood.
#16 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
Indeed - John Smoltz was not offered arbitration, either. Yep - he was injured that last half of 2008, but the Braves will certainly offer him less money on a 1-yr deal.
I wonder if this is completely out of the question with Woody, in light of the current economic conditions now?
#20 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
Is the 'no play until May' deal still in effect? That would probably have less impact on Smoltz than Wood.
#24 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
think they got rid of that...
#18 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
If the Cubs are running out of room in their 2008 budget, who's fault is that?
In 2007 they spent, what, $7 millon on Wood, and another $6 on Howry and Eyre? Howry and Eyre are gone, so where is that money going to? Well it's going to Dempster, Gregg and Marquis and a to be determined LH hitter. It's not Wood's fault that Hendry struck out on Fukudome, or that he gave Marquis that backloaded contract, or that he traded for yet another $4 million setup man.
#21 Re: Cubs Don't Offer Kerry Wood Arbitration
Fred Mitchell apparently talked to Baker who said he'd like to have Wood on the Reds.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs...
"There has been speculation that Cubs manager Lou Piniella became exasperated with Wood last season when he missed about a month with a blister on his right hand."
Haven't heard that one before.
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