TCR Tuesday Notes

Nothing too exciting last night, Rich Harden worked out of a lot of trouble his last three innings, but did strike out 9 in 7 innings without giving up a home run. Milton Bradley went 2/4 with an RBI, a ricochet short of going 3-4. Soto and Fox continue to hit as well and the Marmol/Gregg combo actually did their job. Then we all remember it's the Pirates.

- The Southern League annouced their All-Star rosters and the Tennessee Smokies placed six:  Position players Jim Adduci, Darwin Barney and Blake Lalli will join teammates Casey Coleman, Jay Jackson and Brian Schlitter. 

- Barney will be headed to Triple A though along with a number of other promotions yesterday. Top picks Andrew Cashner and Josh Viiters will each move up a level, Cashner to Double A Tennessee and Vitters to Hi A Daytona. Cub Carpenter will  join Vitters on the ride to Daytona. 1B John Contreras makes the jump from Boise to Daytona, 2b Nathan Samson goes to Tennessee and 1b Ryan Keedy has been released.

-  I stumbled across this old Q&A with Bill James which touches on a wide variety of topics, some Cubs related.

UPDATE: Bill James and Joe Posnanski more recently talked about the age 33 fall-off. Cubs that are 33 this season: Derrek Lee, Alfonso Soriano and Ryan Freel. So is Ted Lilly, but the discussion focuses on offense.

- Milton Bradley is going to get a few days off to work on his left-handed swing with Von Joshua. The Cubs will likely go with Sam Fuld in center and Kosuke Fukudome in right field.

- 57% of Cubs fan agree with Phil Rogers that the Cubs should put Carlos Zambrano on waivers and see if anyone will take his contract off the Cubs hands. Probably the same 57% that applauded Mark DeRosa each time he came up in Wrigley.

- Barring any setbacks, Aramis Ramirez will begin a rehab assignment on Thursday, it's unknown which lucky affiliate will benefit from the added gate receipts.  If all goes well, he could be back in the lineup against Atlanta next Monday.

- A poll of players around MLB conducted by Sports Illustrated came up with Lou Piniella as the manager players would least like to play for...Ozzie Guillen finishing second.

- If you're looking for a write-up on Aaron Miles elbow problems from Dr. Hecht...

I'd do an ortho writeup on Miles hyperextended elbow... but honestly, who cares other than Sam Fuld.

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Comments

Harden looked much better last night. Some of the hits he gave up were cheap, including the pop-up that inexplicably dropped between Soriano, Freel, and Theriot. I figured Soriano must have been jogging to reach that one. Harden seemed to throw more fastballs and with more velocity in the first inning than he had in his past several starts. He also was robbed of a couple of RBIs by LaRoche in the second inning - he hit a shot.

Elder LaRoche made a couple of nice plays, he got totally embarrassed at the plated. It was good to see some of our guys hit the ball hard with runners on base, even in one of them was a pitcher.

After Joshua gets Bradley to quit swinging through fastballs from the left side, he can work on Fukudome doing the same thing. Step one with Bradley would get him to quit waiving the bat. It looks like a contrived effort to try to intimidate the pitcher. When you're hitting .200, no one's intimidated.

Rosenthal on what the Cubs need to do.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9748082/Forget-...

"Hateable Losers" is the tag line at foxsports.com

Brenly just on WSCR giving an interview. Of course they asked him about his "desire to get back into uniform and manage" and his response was since there are no opportunities in front of him right now his desire is very low.

Reading between the lines... if he had no interest in managing a ball team he would have said that, but he didn't. In fact he was surprisingly vague. Very interesting.

How about some NEW Bill James, prominently featuring ALFONSO SORIANO age 33,

Bill Posnanski(Sports Illustrated)Talkin' about the age-33 falloff phenomenon, with Bill James

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/joe_...

Unfortunately, I don't see Alfonso adjusting his see the ball hit the ball approach to a more selective one. Maybe he should try lightening his bat.

whoops I posted that yesterday and forgot to mention it...

It (some new Bill James) sure belongs upstairs in your article.

Speaking of Alfonso, even though he's having a terrible time at the plate he still leads the team in the stat by which all lead-off men are measured -- Runs -- with 47. He's scoring runs at a rate that projects out to 104-110 on the season depending on how you look at it. 104 runs is based on the actual number of games the Cubs have played so far. And if he does score 104 that would be the 4th highest total in his career.

By way of comparison, his predecessor, Juan Pierre, scored only 87 runs in 2006 playing all 162 games with 699 at bats.

Good to see a few of the kids progressing. Rob G/Phil - I'm interested in seeing a mid year Prospect update and/or a report card on the preseason prospects. I feel better about a few of the guys after a half season of production. Here is my list:

1. Vitters
2. Cashner
3. Samardizja
4. Jay Jackson
5. Brett Jackson
6. Starlin Castro
7. Jake Fox
8. Tyler Colvin

Also, looks like we may have some serviceable "ball players" who don't have great skills but can play the game in Barney, Aducci, Lalli.

Curious why you have Jackson below Cashner and Samardzija.

I go:

1. Josh Vitters
2. Jay Jackson
3. Starlin Castro
4. Andrew Cashner
5. Jeff Samardzija
6. Hak-Ju Lee
7. Chris Carpenter
8. Tony Thomas
9. Dae-Eun Rhee
10. Dan McDaniel (just beating out Brett Jackson and Ryan Searle)

I'm curious why both of you guys have Brett Jackson even sniffing the top 20.

Solely because he was unanamiously rated as a top 30-40 prospect going into the draft. I don't like him as a prospect (how's a guy with such contact issues with an aluminum bat going to improve his ability to make contact against better, professional pitchers?) but since I don't go out and see all these guys, I have to make assumptions and listen to scout considerations and supplement them with my thoughts.

interesting that you made a decision on searle/mcdaniel there.

___________

Anyhow, my top 12 would go something like

1. Vitters
2. Jay Jackson
3. Cashner
4. Samardzija
5. Castro
6. McDaniel
7. Lee
8. Colvin
9. Brett Jackson
10. Casey Coleman
11. Dae-Eun Rhee
12. Carpenter

That said, after the top 5 guys, you could order the Cubs system in a number of ways, depending on what criteria you are looking for, and probably make a decent case for it.

"Jake Fox"?

You mean the guy playing 3B and batting cleanup for the Chicago Cubs?

Eric Hinske won't pinch hit to end the game tonight.

To the Yankees for 2 prospects

http://twitter.com/Dejan_Kovacevic/status/2404999378

Kovacevic also rumoring a Nyjer Morgan for Lasting Milledge trade being worked on. Huntington is a busy little guy.

I can't say that I blame him... look at it this way, if he trades everyone on the roster, what does he have?

A: Not the Pittsburgh Pirates.

I might be in the minority here, but I really like the job Neal Huntington is doing in Pittsburgh.

-The Bay,Nady,Marte deals have worked out so far.

-They have spent on Amature talent at a much greater rate

-Getting legit prospects for Hinske and Morgan is +++++

-McLouth was a borderline MLB player before last season. Nice to see a GM sell high on SOMEBODY every once in a while.

1:40pm: Kovacevic says the teams have agreed in principle to exchange Lastings Milledge and Joel Hanrahan for Nyjer Morgan and Sean Burnett.

"-Getting legit prospects for Hinske and Morgan is +++++"

I guess one man's prospects is another man's "prospects".

"Considering Hinske's negligible salary and the two "prospects" the Yankees sent to Pittsburgh -- neither was ranked among the Yankees' 30 best prospects before this season -- this might qualify as the smartest deal of the month."

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/sweetspot/0-3-160/Hinsk...

Turning Nyjer Morgan, Eric Hinske, and Sean Burnett into Lastings Milledge, Joel Hanrahan, and any prospects with upside is a good move IMHO.

Hendry turned DeRosa, Wood, Rich Hill, and Felix Pie into less than that Haul combined!

I'd trade Jim Hendry for Neal Huntington right now if it were possible.

You wanted Hendry to trade Wood during July of last year or you wanted him to offer arbitration? Because the first, to me, would have been a bad move and the second would have wound up with Wood still being on the team.

Offer Arbitration.

Worst case: Wood for one year, instead of Kevin Gregg.
Ceda still in Cubs org.

Best case: Cubs get 2 early picks for Woody.

Worst case would have been Wood for a year and 5-6 million less in salary to spread around.

Best Case: Cubs spend $2 million dollars on two more guys who will never see the inside of a MLB dugout.

You can never have enough toolsy athletes who look good in a baseball uniform in your system. How else are you going to aquire those PTBNLers?

Doubtful,

- No way Woody leaves 3/31.5 on the table to go to Arbitration with the Cubs

- Woody make 4.2 last year, Same that Gregg does this year. Doubtful that Woody would have had his salary DOUBLED in Arbitration. Especially since it goes on a 3 year track record. Wood was only healty for 1/2 of the previous 3 years.

Unless I am mistaken Arbitration cases are solely determined by what comparable players are making. Wood would win an award that was appropriate for a 11 year veteran who had whatever, 36 saves and a 12/9 K rate... and the arbitrator just picks the value he thinks is most fair. It's doubtful that the Cubs or Wood would have submitted anything under $8 million.

Sorry not trying to be snarky here, as I really don't have any idea on if these moves are any good, but I just finished reading this before your second post.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/sweetspot/0-3-161/Bucs-...

Rob,

This is the type of situation where you buy low on a "bad character" guy. If he screws up, just dump him.

It's not like the Pirates just gave him 3/30 and a No Trade Clause or anything.

I liked the Milledge/Hanrahan return, but the Hinske deal was eh. That said, Hinske was available, and no one bit, so maybe that was the bes tout there.

FYI - 2B DJ Fitzgerald was promoted from Mesa to Peoria. He's the first 2009 draftee to get to full season ball.

mildly curious by what that means for 3rd base at Peoria. I'd guess Flaherty, but maybe it's Lake. Or maybe they rotate. I guess Macias could figure in that mix as well.

Josh Harrison typically plays 3rd when Vitters isn't in the lineup. Harrison is actually pretty solid at 3rd and defensively is superior to Vitters. In fact, I am quite concerned about Vitters' defensive shortcomings at 3rd. I always heard that his arm was a little erratic, but I was shocked when I saw his footwork and lack of instincts. His defense will need significant improvement if he hopes to avoid a move to 1st or LF.

Any guesses as to who will be the Cubs forced all star rep? I don't think anyone on this team is an all star....this year.

We were talking about that in parachat the other day. Best guess was Lilly. Other names bandied about were Wells and Lee. I just hope the monkeys who are voting for Soriano desist.

Ted Lilly

Agree with both of you gentlemen directly above me that it's going to be Lilly.

But, I'd just as soon they send Fox instead, since he's probably the only guy who could actually do anything to help the NL win the fucking thing. That's never actually going to happen, of course, but I can wish, I guess.

I'll third the Lilly suggestion, but with the rotten year for NL shortstops Theroit being named to the team would not be shocking.

Korean outfielder Dong-Yub Kim ($550,000 bonus) and Taiwanese infielder Pin-Chieh Chen ($300,000 bonus) made their MLBAAP debuts today in Australia.

Kim went 1/3, R, RBI, 2 K in LF and Chen went 0/3, R, SB, E (fielding) at 2B.

On the subject of prospects, here is a trivia question.

Which lefty is leading the Cub organization in K/9?

If you answered John Gaub, you were . . . close.

Today it's Jeffrey Beliveau (Peoria).

Gaub: 30.1 inn, 19 h, 19 bb, 40 k, 1.26 whip, 11.96 k/9
Beliveau: 53 inn, 41 h, 27 bb, 72 k, 1.28 whip, 12.23 k/9
Archer: 53.1 inn, 32 h, 36 bb, 66 k, 1.28 whip, 11.19 k/9

Kyler Burke is becoming a serious prospect. A couple of days ago, half his hits (34/68) were XBH's, including 28 doubles. He was 21 in April.

Also, I'm old-fashioned, I like speed. Since Tony Campana is going to steal 50-60 bases and is hitting, he's on my watch list.

Archer pitches with his right hand, or were you saying 'lefty' as a hint?

From this site which I've never heard of before:

http://camdendepot.com/winter2009_prospects_top20_...

"Beliveau’s arsenal is anchored by a low-90s fastball with plus- life. In fact, he gets so much late action that he has trouble consistently commanding the pitch, particularly in the zone. His curveball is a solid “chase” pitch with tight, late break, most effective when he buries it."

6-1 200, and though he's walking a lot, it's considerably better than last year, and he's playing at about the right league for his age.

No, I threw Archer in because he and Gaub have gotten a fair amount of attention, whereas Beliveau is a stealth candidate with similar numbers.

The other lefty in the org. with a high strikeout rate is Ryan Buchter (Peoria), with 40 in 30.1 innings. That's a K/9 of 11.96, the same as Gaub's!

Here is the leader board in K's per inning. I'll list innings, K's and K/9.

Chris Huseby (Peoria), 28.2, 40, 12.77
Jeff Beliveau (Peoria), 53, 72, 12.23
John Gaub (Iowa), 30.1, 40, 11.96
Ryan Buchter (Peoria), 30.1, 40, 11.96
Blake Parker (Iowa), 30, 39, 11.70
Alberto Albuquerque (Daytona), 34.2, 44, 11.58
Greg Reinhard (Iowa), 42.1, 54, 11.54
Chris Archer (Peoria), 53.1, 66, 11.19

If he can iron some things out, I think Beliveau could be a solid LOOGY guy that moves fast. That said, I'd take his K/9 with a grain of salt. Plus breaking balls in the lower levels tend to skew the numbers. His curve is legit by most accounts, but how his overall arsenal plays as he moves up, only time will tell.

Given all the blowback from the Dero trade, I would have thought they would have called up Stevens before Shark because:

A) If Stevens performs up here it makes the trade more tolerable as we have atleast someone useful at the MLB level for him .
B) Stevens AAA numbers are better than Sharks
C) Sharks should be developed as a SP for as long as it can feasible to do. Having on the Iowa Stater/Cub bullpen train all season is not going to help that process.

i believe the scouting report on Stevens is he's a one pitch pitcher which is why Samardzija got sent back down.

Well I hope A is not a concern. It could be something as simple as starting Steven's MLB service time clock, but performance wise, there's not much separating the two of them... they've both been slightly disappointing. Mike W said earlier this season that Stevens wasn't using his secondary pitches and the Cubs weren't happy about it, so that may be another issue.

3.72 ERA in his last 10 games...Levine says a more effective slider is coming with him.

Ascanio too walkie... hopefully shark has learned something or at least is more useful than Hart

it wasn't official until today but now it's official...

game rescheduled with the WSux, Thursday Sept 3rd at 1:20 pm

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/press_releases/pr...

Pray for Shark to come back w/ his slider, splitter and heat w/ control as the Cubs desperately need a reliable bullpen arm.

On that note, can we officially dump Patton and bring up a real arm.........do they expect us to believe he's going to be on the roster all year? We'd be better off having Cotts up to pitch to one lefty for god sake. Nothing against Patton, but he's very average at best and I doubt we'll be letting go the next Johan Santana by sending him back to Colorado.

Having Patton around all year has been ridiculous, but we're well past the point of no return. Unless the injuries get twice as bad as they were in April/May, you pretty much have to keep hiding him til Sept. 1 at this point.

I wasn't a big fan of the Patton plan, but as far as I can tell all the contending teams in the NL have a guy with innings pitched in the 20's and a mid 5 or higher ERA.

never been that upset about this Patton thing, if you're going to carry 12 pitchers, someone is going to be the mop-up guy. Occasionally there's a 14-inning game and he can be good for a couple of innings.

 that being said, I wish they would have just stuck with Wuertz instead or just go with an 11-man staff and had Fox up here sooner.

I agree, and I think Lou & Larry are willing to let Patton get his sea-legs here in the first half because that knuckle-curve is absolute filth. That thing is a crippling out pitch. I think (and I imagine this is what they think) if he can make that fastball a little less hittable, he will be a very valuable piece to have down the stretch.

Down the '09 stretch or down the proverbial stretch, as in sometime in his Cubs' future?

I meant down the stretch this year, and no, I don't think that's a crazy thing to believe. I understand he's not pitching very many valuable innings right now, but he does have a 2.70 in his last 5 outings.

If you make the decision that you're going with a Rule 5'er (an entirely different debate), then you've got to give the kid time to learn how to pitch in the big leagues. Patton has the stuff to be a legitimate late inning reliever. It just takes time. The kid's previous career highlight is mowing guys down in the California League.

Nobody thought this kid was taken to be the 7th inning guy right away. I see progess in the way he's pitching. He's getting better. As long as he has the knuckle-curve, he can be a big part of this bullpen this season.

If Patton pitches any meaningful innings down the stretch the Cubs will be toast.

Fans are going to have high expectations for this guy now after wasting a roster spot on him all year.

Please provide some.... any... level of analysis of why this is, other than just insinuating that I'm stupid.

I'd have to agree.

The team is betting that his potential now is better than having Gaudin, or Vizcaino on the club, which were the options in ST. However, Hendry's betting is not to be trusted per se, after this off-season, either.

Seeing as that I am not crazy about either one, I am ok with it.

The team may honestly be 10 games out of it by August 1st and it could all be a moot point.

Patton and Vizcaino made the club out of ST.

you really need to get some glasses.

i did not write that they didn't make the team out of spring training. the three were vying for spots. gaudin did not make team, whom i actually mention, and vizcaino was gone shortly after the season started.

stop spreading malicious lies.

"Gaudin, or Vizcaino on the club, which were the options in ST."

You need to learn how to properly construct sentences. The options in spring training included Ascaino and Guzman, but you did not include them. By including just three players and saying "which were the options" you're implying that those three players were the only ones up for debate and that Patton was kept ahead of the two others. Patton was kept as an option over Gaudin, not over Vizcaino who made the team and was released for off the field reasons.

I understood E-Man just fine. He doesn't need to list everyone in the bullpen. His point came across.

Nevertheless it was factually inaccurate.

I'm also not condoning the decision of putting a Rule 5'er in the bullpen of a team that thinks they're a contender. I think that's stupid.

But, if you're going to go with that, then you've got to do it the right way. You can't throw a kid who has never pitched at AA into high pressure situations in the show in April and June. You're going to screw him up so much mentally that he'll never recover.

He's already starting to pitch better. He has the arsenal to continue to improve and continue to understand where you can't throw pitches. That fastball was probably lights out in Modesto. Guys would miss it if it was over the plate. These guys won't. You've got to locate. He's learning, and if he continues to learn, he'll be fine.

If Lou and Larry didn't believe that, they would have made Hendry send him back a month ago.

Not insinuating you are stupid. Just from what I have seen Patton looks nowhere near a pitcher that I would put in a close game down the stretch. If the Cubs do then there would have been major problems with many other relievers to get Patton in that role. And likely if that all happens the Cubs won't be playing very meaningful games in Sept.

There have been a lot of pitchers who struggled in their first two months in the big leagues. A heckuva lot more who did struggle than those who did not.

I'm not going to debate you on it all night long, because it just isn't that important to me. But, his peripherals are showing drastic improvement. April was a disaster, but in the 10 games he's pitched since May 1, he's got a 2.70. His WHIP is down around half a point. His K/BB ratio is climbing. He had six walks in April alone but seven walks since. He gave up two runs in June and they were both solo homers.

I understand he's not pitching a ton of innings, and I understand that they aren't all that important, but he's growing. That's my point. He's not the kid who had a 9 ERA with a 1.70 WHIP in April. He's starting to pitch like a big leaguer. I'm not advocating that he starts pitching the 7th tomorrow, but if he continues to work over the next 45 days or so, he CAN get to be the 4th arm to go with Gregg, Marmol, and Guzman by the time we get to the end of August. Call me crazy if you want, I guess, but I see a ton of promise in Patton's stuff.

Seconded. It's not like he's Hendry's son-in-law or something. There's a reason the Cubs picked him up and want to keep him. And you're seriously misguided if you think David Patton is going to be the reason this team doesn't make the playoffs.

Thanks Wes.

I don't get to watch nearly as many games as I'd like and so it helps to hear what other people have seen lately. I agree that the knuckle curve looks pretty nasty.

sori, fuku, lee, fox (3b), hoff (rf), soto, font (2b), riot, lilly.

looks like rain.

Ramirez will start rehab on Friday in Peoria and should be back in the lineup on Monday.

That's too soon IMO. He said several times while he was out that he might need 10-14 days in the minors to be ready. Then yesterday Lou says ARam will get 20-25 ab's before they activate him, and now he's on track to play only 3 games in the minors. He's been out two months, I can't picture getting his timing back that quickly. But watch, he'll hit 6 hr's this weekend and prove me wrong.

I've never heard of a 10-14 day rehab...Lou may have said it, but Lou is going senile.

One week would be tops.

It's really pissing me off how much they decide to talk about the Pirates' auction on mlb.tv. There is no analysis or even good commentating, just charity this and that, I'm probably a bad person for being so cold-hearted.

you're not the only one sick of it...especially since it's my only feed on EI.

at least it's once a year and over now.

"57% of Cubs fan agree with Phil Rogers that the Cubs should put Carlos Zambrano on waivers and see if anyone will take his contract off the Cubs hands. Probably the same"

I think it's fairer to say "57% of people who read the article agree with him". You're going to get a large group of people who tend to agree with him, and thus will vote accordingly.

I think it's even more fair to say "57% of people who read the article and felt so strongly about it that they had to vote agree with him."

Most normal, rational fans don't bother to take the time to vote in some stupid Tribune online poll.

Was that deja vu or did the Cubs just get shut out again? This time by the Pirates...UGH!

This whole season is like deja vu all over again.

Watching the Pirates play I get the sense that these two clubs (Cubs & Pirates) are very evenly matched.

That's hard to argue when you look at the results of the last two games or the standings.

"57% of Cubs fan agree with Phil Rogers that the Cubs should put Carlos Zambrano on waivers and see if anyone will take his contract off the Cubs hands.
---
actually 57% of the people that responded to the article voted to agree with Phil Rodgers and most of them were WSux fans trying to be funny or vindictive...Cub fans thought the article in question was to stupid to consider voting on it.

Rotoworld: Indians released RHP Luis Vizcaino. Vizcaino cleared waivers after being designated for assignment last week. The Rangers reportedly talked with him before he signed with the Indians, so they could be his next landing spot. The journeyman reliever walked 12 batters in 11 2/3 innings in his month plus with Cleveland.

Seriously -- it's time for Lou to go.

There is a grotesque level of under-achievement throughout the team that makes no sense.

I just don't see it happening this year. he could resign, however, which might happen imo.

Could patton be put on dl with no consequenses?

2nd and 3rd no outs defense giving us a run 30 million dollars a year worth of ball players and we cant score
nice job soriano and fukodome.

Soto base running out at third nice play smokee.

Can we see fukodome on bench tomorrow?

"Smokee??"

Where's "The Bandit"?

"Fine, trade me to Boston," Zambrano said.
------------

Any other team in the National League he would consider being traded to?

"The Dodgers," he said.

Why the Dodgers?

"Can you see me in Hollywood?" he said. "Me and (Sylvester) Stallone? Rocky VI."

Zambrano then began shadow boxing in the middle of the clubhouse. Very strange, this Cubs bunch.

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/spor...

An 80's sitcom with Z and Bradley as roommates would be fantastic...

that is funny as hell.

yow...saw this in the links on that one

"Now, in the upcoming issue of Sports Illustrated, Piniella has been voted as the manager major league players would least like to play for. Ouch.

In a poll of 380 players, conducted in May, Piniella received 26 percent of the vote, followed closely by White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen at 21 percent. St. Louis' Tony La Russa finished third at 10 percent, followed by the Dodgers' Joe Torre (4 percent) and Cleveland's Eric Wedge (4 percent). "

cold. chicago hate.

Whoops. Guess giving your own player a beat down leaves you with a bad rep. I don't think it really matters in the long run, though. Good teams are good teams, shit teams are shit teams.

this is starting to seriously piss me off...

Marquis 2 hit shutout vs Dodgers, record 10-5 (probably the Rockies All-Star rep)

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2009_...

While it was seriously stupid to throw Marquis away before the All Star break, I've got to hand it to Jason. He knew he had to make some adjustments or he was going to be a pariah on the free agent market. So he changed his delivery even though he sucked all through spring training and pissed his new manager off.
Quote, "Marquis tweaked his delivery to improve his release point by staying over the rubber longer in his balance point, allowing his arm to catch up, resulting in a 2 to 3 inches longer stride, and leaving him throwing downhill."

I wonder if he wanted to do this as a Cub but they wouldn't let him.

This is the same Marquis as last year. He hasn't drastically altered anything or changed.

2009 (to date): 4.22 ERA, 1.41 WHIP, 9.4 H/9, 4.3 K/9
2008 (Cubs) : 4.53 ERA, 1.44 WHIP, 9.3 H/9, 4.9 K/9

And those 2008 stats include his second-half tank. When he does the same in Colorado this year he could end up even worse. W-L record is meaningless. Yes, he's 9-5, but he's pitching just the same.

Sorry, your numbers are wrong. e.g. His ERA is 3.87 . His WHIP in April, his WHIP in May and his WHIP in June are all below the number you give.

His pitches/inning pitched and OPS against are at career lows.

He's pitched ten games of 7 innings or more including two
complete games. He's got one complete game shutout and an 8 inning shutout.

As for tanking in the second half, we'll have to wait to see won't we? But the fact remains, it was terminally stupid not to keep Marquis and then peddle him at the break.
He always has good first halves.

Those numbers are accurate as of Baseball Reference an hour ago, they didn't have last night's game up yet. You can go to the gamelog and look at his stats before last night and you will find that I was correct. Here is the link if you don't believe me.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n...

The fact remains, you and others only bring up Marquis after one of his good games. Where were you on May 13th when his ERA was 5.40 after his wonderful 3.3 IP 9 ER game? Or again on June 24th when he gave up 7 ER un 3.1 IP?? This is how Marquis has always been, he pitches well for a few games and then has a game where his team has no chance to win.

Also, "he always has good first halves"? Like last year, when on July 1st he was 6-5 with a 4.78 ERA? You would want to pay him $5 million for that, and then try to trade him? What would you get? Who would even want to eat the other $5 million he would have coming?

Marquis is having a great year. How can you argue otherwise?

The thing you can always count on Jason Marquis for is not surprising you. A. He'll be more than serviceable, especially as a 4th or 5th starter, B. He'll have a rough second half, and C. He'll give his offense a chance to win plenty of games and have roughly a 500 WPct season.

Everyone knows what you get with Jason Marquis. It's part of his charm.

Dude you got /pwned by Navigator. By the way, win-loss record is not meaningless.

By the way, no I didn't, and by the way, if someone else said that W-L was important you would just come back with a thousand stats about why it is not. So if you want to debate yourself on this, go ahead, but I am not even going to bother to engage.

To Arms! To Arms!

'Meaningless' is not the opposite of 'important'.

The thing is if people repeatedly repeat things that are incorrect, and aren't challenged then other people start to accept them as gospel. 'Dusty Baker makes teams walk more.' 'Lineup construction has no bearing on run scoring" etc etc.

Here's the top 10 active pitchers in W/L %.

1. Pedro Martinez (37) .6837 R
2. Roy Halladay (32) .6746 R
3. Johan Santana (30) .6743 L
4. Roy Oswalt (31) .6617 R
5. Tim Hudson (33) .6547 R
6. Randy Johnson (45) .6474 L
7. Cliff Lee (30) .6349 L
8. Mark Mulder (31) .6319 L
9. Andy Pettitte (37) .6307 L
10. C.C. Sabathia (28) .6169 L

Wins and win loss records are not meaningless stats.

You mean when people say incorrect stuff like this: "I suspect with his chosen lifestyle it's very useful to have a refined gaydar" they should be challenged on it? Duly noted.

No, I don't mean that at all. I said 'repeatedly'... What happened to, "I am not even going to bother to engage"?

I am not engaging you on the relative importance of win-loss records. But you are right, I don't want to engage at all. I've never liked how you respond to myself or to other commenters on here, and now after seeing you try to insult someone by calling them gay, and then following that up by accusing someone else of being a racist bigot, I'm done. I enjoy the baseball acumen of the commenters on here, and I like a nice, friendly, respectful debate about baseball and the Cubs. I learn a lot and tend to refine my own arguments. But reading most of what you write and engaging in these arguments with you where you have to be right, is just taking away from my enjoyment of following the Cubs. It's simply not worth it.

But you keep doing it. And it's funny how you accuse me of 'having to be right' which I will admit to, when you won't even admit that you fucked up on Marquis's stats, when the truth is right there in black and white.

I honestly think that Big Dave is gay, and didn't mean it as an insult.

I honestly think that Big Dave is gay, and didn't mean it as an insult.

And what makes you think that? Is it my beautiful wife and kid? Or do you just think that all folks with progressive politics are gay?

This could be interesting...

no good will come of this...

Such an interesting dynamic how there's always a board pariah. One recedes and another one jumps in to take his place. I'm really fascinated by this trend.

Are you ashamed of me?

Of course... but that has nothing to do with whether I am gay or not.

I am just ashamed that they let people like you become Mennonite. :)

Sorry, I watched the latter half of Legally Blonde with my wife last night. Luke Wilson tricks the pool boy into admitting that he was gay, who then says "No, I was confused, Chuck is just a friend". Then Chuck shouts out "You bitch!" and storms out of the courtroom.

Mennonite: It's all in the blood. They had no choice. Sometimes they wish they did, though.

Real Neal is ashamed they let people like you become Mensheviks.

Hey, if you're not gay, you're not gay. No big deal. Plenty of gays have wives and kids... well one wife. You definitely has something that sets off my gaydar. The socialism undoubtedly has something to do with it. You don't see a lot of gay pride flags at Republican rallies.

There aren't many gay pride flags in the Middle East. No gays there either.

You definitely has something that sets off my gaydar.

And what would that be?

The socialism undoubtedly has something to do with it. You don't see a lot of gay pride flags at Republican rallies.

Right... there are no gay Republicans. Seriously, wtf? They don't have gay pride flags are Republican rallies because Republicans have to hide the fact that they are gay.

Bingo! The question at hand is... why do you?

Huh? Why do I what?

People are just dicks on the Internet, in general. Maybe because they don't have to see other people face to face or maybe they weren't hugged enough as a child, who knows. You're better off just shrugging it off if you can.

I just realized that sounds kind of condescending. I'm not saying I'm never a dick... I am sometimes. It's a problem, I'm working on it.

Try to forget about Real Neal. He is not the majority of the great folks involved here. He is truly more interested in noticing - then correcting - every possible detail, correct or not of other's posts - to try to make himself seem more important.

The minute details are really significant to him in his own mind, and he will try to descend on people like a hawk, just to try to make himself feel more intellectually superior. Even when he is wrong, he will interpret your words just the way HE wants to.

I enjoy the WISCGRAD posts, so pay no mind to the Real Detail Neal

rocked again...3.1 IP, 9 H, 7 ER. 3 K, 3 BB, 1 HR...didn't get the loss though.

Pie had a nice game 2-4 with a triple and 2 RBI's subbing for Jones after he tried to run through the CF fence.

Pie also nailed a runner at the plate who would have been Boston's 11th run. But Pie watchers have to hope he gets out of Baltimore soon.

Most of them hoped he'd be in Norfolk by now.

milton bradley for gary mathews jr ?

I'm holding out hope for Damon Buford.

CLICK! "Good Morning Mr. Phelps. Your Mission, should you decide to accept it, is to take July into new heights. Tighten Soriano's swing, screw Fukudome into a a rubber band hitter, and make Aramis Ramirez into an all star in 2 weeks with 20 RBI's.

"As always, should you be caught or captured, the Secretary will disavow any of your actions.

"Good luck, Mr. Phelps."

(tape sizzles)

(que music, match lights and scoring highlights, background "Go, Cubs, Go").

(Bud light drinkability commercial)

(Bob Brenly appears in CUBS uni, D-Back's series ring gleaming in Wrigley sunshine)

(Lynda Day George walks slowly by in a mini - Brenly grins knowingly into camera) FADE TO BLACK...

DeRo injured his wrist on a swing leading off the 4th last night and had to leave the game...

unclear whether it's significant yet, said he "tweaked" it and didn't feel right afterward

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090630&c...

2009 is stupid.

Has he had a hit yet as a redturd?

Has he had a hit yet as a redturd?
---
not yet...I hear he's saving em up for the weekend before the all-star break in chicago

2009 is Stoopid

Mildly interesting explanation of how director Steven Soderbergh destroyed the Moneyball script and any chance of the movie being made right now.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/the_big_picture/20...

Thanks for this. I am wondering if ROB G found anything in Variety recently, either?

sounds like the last revision was looking to be a type of American Splendor type flick.

Mitch Atkins with his fifth strong game in a row, took a no-hitter (again) into the seventh. 8 innings, 3 hits, 1 run, 0 walks, 7 strikeouts. Cubs lose 1-zip. (Tough to win with that Iowa lineup right now.)

Yes, but the I-Cubs are only 3.5 out.

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