Are Cubs Silently Waving White Flag?
You can't say that Jim Hendry isn't trying to still do his job. Reports came out today that Aaron Heilman and Rich Harden have both been claimed on waivers, Heilman definitely by an NL Team and Harden most likely by a pitching-starved NL team. Rosenthal's report says the Cubs have until Monday afternoon to complete a deal, but that seems longer than the normal 48 hour window to complete this type of transaction.
Heilman is owed about $270K on his contract this year, might as well just save it if you're the Cubs and let him go to whatever team claimed him if a deal can't be worked out. I highly doubt any team that did claim him was trying to block him from somebody, since you know, it would probably actually hurt most teams that he joined, so there must be some interest there or maybe some drunk GM'ing. Since the Cubs aren't going anywhere with Heilman on the team and they're not going to offer him arbitration this offseason, hopefully Hendry can take advantage of this opportunity and send Heilman on his merry way...where he can win a World Championship and then go broke in the offseason.
Rich Harden is owed about $1.2M on his deal, but his true value will be beyond this season. The Cubs could try and resign him to a long-term deal, although that's doubtful. With a pretty bare market for starting pitchers, Harden will likely snag some sort of multi-year deal, so offering him arbitration is a no-brainer and if he does happen to accept it, I'm sure not going to complain about getting him back in a Cubs uniform for 2010. If Hendry does work out a trade, he will have to get back something resembling two 1st/2nd round talents from whatever team claimed him and in this case, I could see the Giants trying to block the Dodgers here and they're probably not looking for starting pitching right now.
And while teams generally put the bulk of their roster through waivers during this time period, it's somewhat interesting that the Cubs waited until the end of August here to put one of their most tradeable pieces in Harden. If Hendry can squeeze out two top prospects, preferably at higher levels in the minors, he can avoid the arbitration and paperwork headache in the offseason, avoid any potential late season injury to Harden that we're always worried about and hypothetically pick up two prospects closer to the show. A prospect in the hand is worth two in the draft so to speak....
UPDATE: Bruce Levine has a source that says the Minnesota Twins put in a claim, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were awarded it. On cue, Paul Sullivan says it was an NL team that won the claim but does not specify which team. Baseball Musings cites Andrew Kneeland saying it's probably the Rockies, but the link goes to the Paul Sullivan article which does not mention the Rockies at all, although the Rockies, Dodgers and Giants all had scouts at Harden's last game according to Levine's article.
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#1 Re: Are Cubs Silently Waving White Flag?
Heilman, eh...
will it be a 25 year old AA'r having a decent season or a kid in low-A ball who no one cared about until recently?
should be fun. wee.
him and fontenot i expected a lot more from this season...meh...
#2 Re: Are Cubs Silently Waving White Flag?
I remember me and a certain Rob G arguing about the uselessness of Hielmann during the off-season, sadly I was proven correct. I don't think we'll get anything for him, though if we do it's a nice job bluffing by Hendry.
I am not sure I agree with Rob on taking the prospects (and I guess cash) for Harden. It would depend on the prospects, I guess. When you take a guy in the first round, he always winds up on next year's top 10 list (usually top 5) for that organization, so that is where I would start as an asking price for Harden - a top 10 guy, preferably a 2nd basemen, SS or SP and then a 15ish guy or a couple of 20 to 30 guys.
If Hendry is really white flagging - he should tell Lou to put Gregg back into the closer role. Actually he should do that anyway because Marmol sucks, but he should be trying to get him a type A rating and hope someone signs him before the arb deadline rolls around.
#3 Re: Are Cubs Silently Waving White Flag?
Gregg as a type A is not a good situation, since you wouldn't even want to offer him arb. What team pays up for Gregg and gives up their first rounder?
Gregg as a type B is actually a better situation, though I'm still not sure you can safely offer arbitration.
Is this realistically up in the air now, though? I don't know the math on the Elias rankings.
Hendry also ought to be shopping Aaron Miles, Jeff Baker, and John Grabow, if only to see what can be had in return (if anything).
#4 Re: Are Cubs Silently Waving White Flag?
I thought Heilman would bounce back a bit, relievers are a fickle bunch. I also thought the Cardinals would be tough this year...
win some, you lose some
I'm with Charlie that I highly doubt anyone is going to give the Cubs a draft pick for Gregg at this point.
As for Harden, yes, it has to be for quality talent comparable to what they'd get in the draft. Where exactly they rank on a prospect list isn't that much of a concern, but I'd take two guys somewhere in the top 20 if they're closer to the majors and the Cubs scouts really like them, over a 1st round pick who by default gets put in the top 10 list even though it's more buzz and upside than performance.
#5 Re: Are Cubs Silently Waving White Flag?
Levine: Harden claimed by Twins
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=44...
#8 Re: Are Cubs Silently Waving White Flag?
in fairness, it says may be the team that claimed him and it's possible the source just knows that the Twins put a claim on Harden but were not awarded it.
I find it hard to believe the Dodgers wouldn't put a claim in for example....
Articles says Cubs want legit prospects for both...good luck with that on Heilman.
#13 Re: Are Cubs Silently Waving White Flag?
check the update on this article....Sullivan says it was an NL team that was awarded the claim.
#6 Re: Are Cubs Silently Waving White Flag?
I am pretty sure weekends don't count for the 48-hour window, so a claim on mid-day Thursday has until mid-day Monday to be resolved. Or it's a 72-hour window and Sundays don't count. I am not sure, but either way Monday should be right.
#7 Re: Are Cubs Silently Waving White Flag?
I'll call it now: Hendry pulls back Heilman but trades Harden for a couple AA ball pitchers with upside but middling results thus far. Probably sketchy control as well.
Woohoo.
#9 You Gotta be Kidding Me
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs...
And now, with his(Bradley's) latest comments creating an integrity issue, he has to go. You will hear some talk about a trade, but Hendry should summon the spirit of Mike Scioscia, circa 2004, or Josh Byrnes, circa 2005. He needs to punt Bradley, as Scioscia and the Angels did Jose Guillen and Byrnes and the Diamondbacks did Russ Ortiz.
These were decisive management acts -- and perhaps not by coincidence the perennially solid Angels won more games the next season and the Diamondbacks stunned the National League West (and the Cubs) in '07 before going back into hibernation.
2 years after removing Russ Ortiz the DBacks made the playoffs? Clearly they're connected...
#21 Re: You Gotta be Kidding Me
phil rogers has passed into the retardation zone.
"My recommendation: Release him."
this guy is suggesting the cubs eat 20m bucks rather than have an at-worst (barring injury, which he'd be gone anyway if that happened) RF/CF who has a decent arm with a dependable .370+ ob% that's capable of a double/homers...
...and his reasoning behind it is pale, bland, and "recent comments" evidently is enough to push this all over the edge.
there's some real NY Post style shock-GRRRRRRRR style sportswriting going on in chicago lately.
#32 Re: You Gotta be Kidding Me
"phil rogers has passed into the retardation zone"
Passed?
He resides in the retardation zone with a summer house in lobotmy land.
Phil also suggested releasing Z this year too.
Sounds like he doesn't like his players being to uppity because he votes for Harold Baines every year for the HOF.(true)
#73 Re: You Gotta be Kidding Me
Who has the authority to send Rogers back to Logic 101 to learn the logical fallacy post hoc ergo propter hoc? Hmm. Maybe the problem is that he learned it, but thought that it was a sound rhetorical/logical tactic? Your average 12 year old can identify this logical fallacy 75% of the time. Okay, I made that percentage up. I can't convince any legit researchers to do that study, because they consider it unnecessary.
#10 Round 3 from Bradley
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090827&c...
"I'm always the story, whether I hit .500 or hit .100," Bradley said. "Somehow, someway, everything revolves back to me. I guess I'm kind of a big deal or something. People like talking about Milton Bradley. Not to my face, always behind my back."
#11 Re: Round 3 from Bradley
Reading all these Bradley quotes make me want to give myself brain damage.
#25 Re: Round 3 from Bradley
Reading all these Bradley quotes is already giving you brain damage.
#12 Re: Are Cubs Silently Waving White Flag?
Reading all these Bradley quotes make me want to give myself brain damage.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EFRSjBSeZc
#14 Since this...
is probably the most exciting thing left for the Cubs this year...if it is the Rockies...
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?arti...
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/12/17/696067/c...
(remember those are from the beginning of the year, things change quickly)
Jhoulys Chacin seems like the most legit pitching prospect, 21 years old, good year in AA...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cg...
I doubt they'd give up Fowler...maybe we can get Matt Murton back? Casey Weathers was a big name until TJ surgery knocked him out this year. Eric Young Jr. might be neat, I think he can play 2b/CF (don't ask me how well) and a leadoff type guy.
#15 Re: Since this...
but if they just want to throw in Troy Tulowitzki and call it a day, I'm good with that...we'll sacrifice Theriot if we have to....
#18 Re: Since this...
I say the Cubs acquire Pujols in a complicated, 8-player, 6-team deal that ultimately sends Koyie Hill to Japan.
#19 Re: Since this...
Fowler would be optimistic. Cubs probably don't get shit and that's okay.
#17 Re: Since this...
reading up a bit, looks like Young's defense at 2b is his problem and Rockies have been playing him in CF since they just called him up. He did play mostly 2b at AAA this year though...
#16 Re: Are Cubs Silently Waving White Flag?
I know there's a month left, but I for one have no problem with them waiving the white flag if it can better posture the organization going into the off season. Of course, you don't want to just do shit for no reason, but I think most of the core fans understand it's over.
#20 Re: Are Cubs Silently Waving White Flag?
I don't trust Hendry to pick up good prospects.
I don't know why. I just don't.
So a Harden fire sale, while apparently necessary, is not gonna thrill me.
#22 This is Getting Sad
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/17393...
The Royals? Hmmmm. They have Gil Meche for two more years, Zack Greinke coming off a breakout season and at one point this year thought they might be moving up in the AL Central. They probably could use an outfielder and definitely need a hitter as the worst-hitting, worst-slugging and lowest-on-base-percentage team in the AL among teams Bradley hasn't played for. Maybe.
The Blue Jays? They would seem to have room in the outfield. The fans like their beer as much as fans at Wrigley, but there are far fewer of them and they generally don't care enough about baseball to focus or put pressure on a single player.
And considering how badly he seems to want out of Chicago, what better destination than another country?
POSSIBLE DESTINATIONS
KAUFFMAN STADIUM: ROYALS NEED A HITTER
ROGERS CENTRE: BLUE JAYS FANS DON'T CARE
#24 Re: This is Getting Sad
yeesh...while everyone wants a f'n Cal Ripken Jr. to roll up into chicago and give everyone pep talks and high fives...some of us enjoy a player that's not all gee-shucks-golly (or hopping in the OF...or jogging to 1st watching long doubles/triples turn into singles/doubles...etc). everyone's bitching about milton except his teammates. milton bitching isn't doing it any good at this point either, but whatever...he don't own a newspaper or get a 500+ word column...he plays baseball.
the 70s were full of them...the 80s, too. sometime in the 90s+ being some Captain America baseball hero who "does the right thing" and rah-rah's everything in front of them brings tears to some fan's eye.
even with this shit season bradley loosely projects to be a near-30 double, 18+ HR guy with a .370+ ob%. god knows he's got upside beyond that even if he's a mid/high 20s homer guy at best. his D and arm are good even if he forgets how to count to 3 occasionally.
#26 Re: This is Getting Sad
a little loose with that doubles projection there...
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?play...
#28 Re: This is Getting Sad
i meant on whole, not in an abbreviated-by-injury season or the remainder of this season. i was clear as mud about that, though.
if he showed up next season with 18-25 homers, 30-ish doubles, and a .370+ ob% i wouldn't be shocked...hell, it's pretty much what i expect.
stay healthy and quit driving the ball in the ground milty.
#30 Re: This is Getting Sad
...annnnnd we're assuming Milton can stay healthy for a full year based onnnnnnnnnn......?
#36 Re: This is Getting Sad
2008 and 2009?
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