TCR: No Good Will Come of This

Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by Rob G. on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 10:35am

The little LSU engine that could was defeated by the almighty Cubs Inc. today in their arbitration case. Theriot will take home a cool $2.6M instead of $3.4M in his final year as the Cubs shortstop and probably with the Cubs.

"I've known Ryan since his LSU days," Hendry said. "He's a good kid. He'll be an important part of the club this year.
It's a matter of what side of the fence, business wise, you happen to
be on right now. We'll get through it. Ryan Theriot's going to be
playing on Opening Day here, and we need him to play well."

And Lou:

``Everything I've heard, he's a can't-miss kid. But this year,
Ryan will be our shortstop,'' Piniella said. ``Remember, Castro is
young, and there's nothing wrong with putting a good foundation under
him at AAA.''

(H/t to Wrigleyville 23 for the find and formatting)

We'll see if that extra $800K is enough for the Cubs to bring in a reliever. There was some rumors by Bruce Levine if the Cubs won the case they might be able to afford Chan Ho Park, who is still looking for $3-4M.

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#1 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by Ryno on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 10:45am.

They should have just split the middle. Yeah it's more than he deserves, but it's not like Hendry is real thrifty with money.

#2 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by Rob G. on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 11:24am.

maybe the Cubs thought they were being generous enough at $2.6M and weren't even offering $3M?

#3 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by Rob G. on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 11:28am.

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/02/...

"We stand on our track record," he said. "I don't think anybody in that clubhouse would tell you we have not been fair to that player in the arbitration process... It was just a different type of situation."

i.e, we knew we're not keeping him past this year...

#4 Re: we knew we're not keeping him past this year...

Submitted by navigator on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 12:07pm.

...at shortstop.

I think the Cubs balked at paying RT more than $2.6 because his future is at second base (where he doesn't match up well against league second basemen) or the bench as a utility player. But I would be surprised if they don't plan on trying to keep him around.

#5 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by The Real Neal on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 12:19pm.

why keep him around at $3.5 million when you've got Blanco, Castro and Barney who offer the approximately the same skill set at close to ML minimum?

#8 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by Rob G. on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 1:14pm.

Theriot at 2b is not a good idea...unless Castro or whomever is playing shortstop shows 10-15 HR power.

this myth needs to end.

#9 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by Cubster on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 1:54pm.

this myth needs to end.
---
can he play short centerfield for the 16" team?

#10 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by Little Nate Lewis on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 2:08pm.

Well it's definitely not a "myth."

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/02/...

Theriot has already been told that he will eventually be moved to second base to make way for star prospect Starlin Castro. He has no qualms about the move, and said he'd help Castro any way he can.

"If I remember, my first action was in right field," he said with a laugh. "That was an adventure. I don't (have any qualms). But as of now I am the shortstop, and I've been for three years and I feel like I've done a good job. He's going to have to come get it."

#13 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by Rob G. on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 2:53pm.

the myth that it's a good idea...

#49 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by Dr. aaron b on Sun, 02/21/2010 - 2:43pm.

What is the alternative to the Cubs saying he will move to second? Hey Ryan, as soon as Castro is ready were shipping you outta here?

#12 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by George Altman on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 2:22pm.

Theriot's value (i.e. salary) and production (made the routine plays at SS) were fine in 2007/2008 when the Cubs had enough offensive production coming from other spots in the lineup. If we had a GM with foresight, he would be looking to seriously find another team for Theriot to play for by mid summer. It appears Castro may be ready by then and has more offensive and defensive upside than Theriot will ever have. Unless a bottom third MLB team needs and everyday 2B or even SS, his future is a $750,000 to $1.25M backup middle infielder.

Unless they form a high OBA 1-2 in the lineup/defensive keystone stars, I'm not sure how much of a 2B/SS upgrade that Castro/H. Lee would be.

#6 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by artskoe on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 12:53pm.

It occurs to me that Ryan is a victim of his time. That 800K would be his right now if he had been born, oh, let's see...about 12 years earlier. Under the influence, he'd be at 25 HR's a year and slugging .700, and his locker would be right next to Slammin' Sammy. Yes, all that extra money we spent on watching McGuire, et. al., was well spent, eh, folks?

#7 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by Charlie on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 1:00pm.

OH MY GOD.

Are you saying that some people benefited financially from the use of performance enhancing drugs during the 90s? And that some of those people were baseball players? Is that the implication here?

Let's all us fans file a class action lawsuit against Sammy Sosa for delighting us so much that we bought tickets! Then we can give some of that cash to the scrappy, skinny guys that are screen surrogates on WGN.

#11 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by Wes on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 2:19pm.

Indeed. Needs more scrap.

#14 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by Rob G. on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 3:06pm.

another piece on Dempster's kid

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/20...

#15 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by Rob G. on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 3:15pm.

http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2010/02/chicag...

impressive detail in the comments on the arbitrators in Theriot's case and their records.

#16 Re: Lineup Tool

Submitted by Rob G. on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 3:35pm.

http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/Lineup...

using the 1998-2002 method (no idea the difference) and CHONE 2010 projections:

ideal lineup: Fukudome, Lee, Fontenot, Ramirez, Soto, Soriano, Byrd, Pitcher, Theriot

2nd best had Byrd and Fontenot flipped

Putting Baker in:Fukudome, Lee, Byrd, Ramirez, Soto, Soriano, Baker, Pitcher, Theriot

the 1959-2004 method (no idea): Fukudome, Lee, Byrd, Ramirez, Soto, Pitcher, Baker, Soriano, Theriot

I used the composite 2009 numbers for Cubs pitchers.

#19 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by Charlie on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 4:09pm.

Fontenot or Byrd as the options for #3 hitter AND extra PAs for the pitcher? That's an interesting tool, there.

#20 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by crunch on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 4:25pm.

don't argue with the spreadsheet. it knows baseball better than any of us.

#22 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by Rob G. on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 5:10pm.

yeah, not sure where the pitcher batting 6th is a good idea, although I guess they only get up 2, maybe 3 times a game before being pinch-hit.

A long time ago when Dusty was fucking up lineups every day and I cared, I read something that your best hitter should bat 2nd, not 3rd (worked for the Cubs with Ryno for awhile)...but don't recall the articles now or the reasoning.

#23 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by crunch on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 5:15pm.

following your "best" hitter with fontenot or byrd is a great way for your "best" hitter to see something not worth swinging at.

these kinds of projections that treat players as if they play in a single batter vs. pitcher vacuum are flawed right out of the gate.

#24 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by Rob G. on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 5:21pm.

Byrd's not too bad, he'll be (likely) batting behind Ramirez to start the season, so we'll see.

#25 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by crunch on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 5:25pm.

im just saying what was spit out by that process is flawed...

i don't think byrd is horrible...i think people that thought j.jones was the worst thing since hitler won't be pleased with him, though.

i don't think him or fontenot belong anywhere near the 3 slot. it's odd something had to churn stats to arrive at that decision.

...and this...

"...Pitcher, Baker, Soriano, Theriot"

i'm not touching that.

#27 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by Sweet Lou on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 6:00pm.

The explanation is simple. It's broken.

#32 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by The Real Neal on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 6:47pm.

The only problem, to me, with the ideal lineup is the pitcher/theriot thing at 8/9, but when Z plays that wouldn't bother me. I think the Brewers manager went with this logic but then realized that the impact to the 7th hitter wound up screwing up the spreadsheet math.

#17 MLB Network

Submitted by Rob G. on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 3:51pm.

showing a 1969 game between Cubs and Phillies; Fergie vs. Rick Wise

#18 More good news for the Cubs

Submitted by Rob G. on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 4:02pm.

Ed Wade extended for 2 seasons by the Astros...

#21 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by crunch on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 5:03pm.

college baseball on MLB Network?

laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.

well, i guess it's cool as hell if you're a fan.

*ting* *ting* *ting* *ting* *ting* *ting*

#26 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by QuietMan on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 5:39pm.

Does Starlin Castro not being in camp yet say something about the kid?

His first invite to big league camp with people saying he's going to push Theriot. And he doesn't show up early like the majority of the other players.

#28 Re: Cubs Win At Something

Submitted by crunch on Sat, 02/20/2010 - 6:01pm.

they most likely have a spelled-out plan for him and he did play the offseason in 2 leagues. dunno if it was up to him to report and when, but i imagine they know where he's at and why he's there.

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