Cubs to Offer Arbitration to All Eligible Players, Even Koyie Hill

Bruce Miles writes that the Cubs are planning to offer arbitration to all six of their arbitration eligible players, Geovany Soto, Carlos Marmol, Sean Marshall, Tom Gorzelanny, Jeff Baker and Koyie Hill. As Miles notes, Hendry must be confident that Baker and Hill will accept whatever the Cubs are proposing.

AZ Phil guesses on the right sidebar are:

$4.25M for Marmol ($2.125M last year)

$3.5M for Soto ($0.575M)

$2.5M for Gorzelanny ($0.8M)

$2M for Marshall ($.95M)

$1.25M for Baker($.975M)

$0.75M for Hill ($0.7M)

I think Marmol is easily gonna get over $5M myself, possibly closer to $6M based on Francisco Rodriguez getting $7M in his second arbitration eligible year and Papelbon getting $9.35M. Yes, they were closers longer and I'm not advcocating he'll get as much, but I think he'll get closer to them than Phil is suggesting. Soto seems about right, as Russ Martin got $3.9M in his first arb-eligible year. The rest I offer no opinions on, other than Koyie Hill is worth the cost of a bullpen catcher.

We'll get the official lists soon enough from the rest of the league and that should open up the free agency market a little as well before next week's winter meetings.

Tags: 
Cubs Arbitration
Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 4:29pm
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Comments

Submitted by John Beasley
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 4:37pm

I know this horse is about dead, but Hill is preferable to Castillo or even Chirinos how exactly?

I mean, if the offseason budget is really $5-6M, then the difference of 400K$ between Hill and those guys is a lot of money, right?

More importantly, as far as backup catchers go, I'd like a guy who brings a good skillset in at least one category (OBP, CS%, additional MPH added to fastball, etc.)

Hill is so blah that he should be eating corn flakes and vanilla ice cream with the Spin Doctors instead of playing for the Cubs.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 4:48pm

Hill is so blah that he should be eating corn flakes and vanilla ice cream with the Spin Doctors instead of playing for the Cubs.

win.

Submitted by Tito
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 4:50pm

Lumping vanilla ice cream in with Koyie Hill and the Spin Doctors is an insult to vanilla ice cream.

Submitted by Paul Noce
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 6:23pm

I'm just glad we got rid of Fontenot last year so he's not on that list today.

Submitted by crunch
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 5:47pm

hah...and also, k.hill wtf?

Submitted by Arizona Phil
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 7:32pm

Submitted by John Beasley on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 4:37pm.
I know this horse is about dead, but Hill is preferable to Castillo or even Chirinos how exactly?

=============================================

JOHN B: While most Cubs fans have a low opinion of Koyie Hill, Hill is very popular with the Cubs pitchers, his teammates, the manager and coaches, and the front office. Like it or not, that's what matters.

I was surprised that the Cubs decided to tender Koyie Hill (such that he will ultimately be eligible for salary arbitration). I had thought that the Cubs would non-tender him, and then immediately sign him to a pre-arranged minor league deal (for the same salary he would have gotten if he had been on the 40-man roster, plus an NRI to Spring Training, and with the option to opt out of the minor league contract if he did not make the Cubs Opening Day 25-man roster). That would have opened up another slot on the 40-man roster to be used if the Cubs sign more than one MLB FA this off-season. But apparently they chose not to do that.

Submitted by jacos
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 4:57pm

Worst FA contracts according to Bleacher report

Cubs have 4

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/525302-mlb...

Submitted by Rob G.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 5:02pm

Score and now Bleacher Report, really hitting the high-quality media outlets here today.

Submitted by Tony S.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 8:32pm

Okay, we all know that ANYBODY can write an article for BR, right??

I'd love nothing more than to be the beat writer/radio voice/AZ Phil of even a high A team someday, after I retire from my first or second career, so I've thought about writing a bit, and found BR.

I've never written anything real in my f-ing life, and I've got an article published there, no shit.

It doesn't count, man.

Submitted by jacos
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 9:03am

Sorry didn't know anyone could write on BR.

I thought it was a well done list on bad contracts.

Submitted by Tony S.
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 11:42am

No worries, I enjoy reading there, it's just like here, fan opinion, albeit with prettier pictures!

edit* And if you liked it, make sure you tell the author that (if he's new), he'd love to hear it

Submitted by Rob G.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 5:30pm

on defensive metrics

healthy bashing on UZR in there

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/sit...

Submitted by Paul Noce
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 7:02pm

Berkman reportedly close to signing with the Rockies.

I don't understand that one. If they think he's going to play RF regularly...in that park...huh?

And if the plan is that he come off the bench to backup 1b/corner OF, why would he take that deal over one with the opportunity to be a starter somewhere else?

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/rockes-...

Submitted by Rob G.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 7:05pm

they had Brad Hawpe and Holliday out there for years in the corners, won't hurt them much defensively.

Submitted by Paul Noce
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 7:37pm

You're saying Berkman is as good/better defensively? lol.

Hasn't played OF in 3 seasons. He's old, coming off knee injury, and might be playing in a cavernous OF.

But regardless, I don't see the attraction to him to be a bench player when he could likely find a promised starting job, unless the Rockies are offering more money.

EDIT: looking at the Rockies' roster, I guess Berkman would be considered a starting corner OF. They have Gonzalez in CF, plus Fowler, Smith, and who knows. Berkman would start over Fowler or Smith. I also read a rumor earlier that Fowler was on the White Sox' list of players to check into.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 7:38pm

I'm mostly saying that Brad Hawpe was really fucking awful in the outfield and I'm sure the Rox have some plan here with Berkman or a feeling that he's healthy.

They could be wrong, they could be right, but nice place for Berkman to go if he's healthy and bring back his value.

Submitted by Paul Noce
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 7:39pm

Hey, he might be our new 1b!

Submitted by Rob G.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 7:47pm

I would venture a guess that it's going to be Pena or come through a trade.

Submitted by Arizona Phil
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 8:27pm

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 7:47pm.
I would venture a guess that it's going to be Pena or come through a trade.

=========================================

ROB G: Actually Brad Hawpe sounds like somebody the Cubs might sign.

He'd be cheap, and he can play 1B-LF-RF and be a LH PH.

And (most importantly) he would be the missing piece from the Cubs Collection of LSU players from the 2000 College World Series championship team.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 8:30pm

Hawpe as a bench guy is perfectly fine with me, but I think it's the Cards now collecting those LSU players.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 8:28pm

You could have also pointed out that Berkman used to log time in center field.

Submitted by Arizona Phil
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 7:11pm

Actually the Cubs aren't offering anybody arbitration (yet).

What happens is that clubs are required to submit a Central Tender Letter (CTL) to the MLB office on December 2nd (formerly December 12th) listing all unsigned players on the club's MLB 40-man roster, and whether the player is being tendered a contract or not being tendered a contract for the following season.

If a player is listed in the CTL as not being tendered a contract, the player immediately becomes a non-tendered free-agent. (A non-tendered free-agent can sign an MLB or minor league contract with his former club, or he can sign an MLB or minor league contract with a different club, and if the player signs with a different club, his previous club receives no compensation).

When a player is listed in the CTL as being tendered a contract for the following season, the club must list the elements of the contract being tendered (MLB salary, minor league split salary, bonuses, etc). The salary offered must be at least the MLB minimum salary ($400K) and at leat 80% of the player's salary from the previous season. (NOTE: The salary does not have to be at least 80% of the player's salary from the previous season if the player was an Article XX-B FA who was offered arbitration on 11/23 and accepted by 11/30, or if the player was awarded a contract by an arbitration panel the previous season).

The player can sign the contract tendered by the club, or can refuse to sign, and negotiate for a different salary.

Players who are not yet eligible for salary arbitration have basically no recourse but to ultimately accept the club's offer. The player could refuse to sign and sit out the season, but in practice that just doesn't happen. A club can automatically renew the player's previous season's contract if the player is still unsigned on March 1st (which is why they are sometimes called "auto-renewal" players).

But players eligible for salary-arbitration do not have to accept the club's offer.

If the club and a player eligible for salary arbitration cannot agree on a contract, either the player or the club can request salary arbitration over a ten-day period beginning on January 5th.

Once arbitration is requested by the club or the player, the player and the club are required to submit official salary figures to each other (cc to the MLB office and MLBPA), and a hearing is scheduled before a three-person arbitration panel sometime during the first three weeks of February.

While waiting for the hearing, the player and the club can negotiate with each other and attempt to reach agreement on a contract, even right up until the hearing officially begins. (Typically if an agreement is reached in the weeks, days, hours, or minutes prior to the hearing, the salary ends up being somewhere near the mid-point of the two figures).

If no agreement is reached prior to the scheduled hearing, the player and the club present their cases and the arbitration panel decides (based on comparitive objective statistical evidence only) which of the two salary figures to award to the player. The panel cannot "split the difference" between the two figures. The panel chooses either the player's figure or the club's figure.

All contracts awarded by an arbitration panel are non-guaranteed one year contracts with no minor league split salary and no performance or incentive bonuses. Because the contract is not guaranteed, the player can be released during Spring Training and receive only a percentage of his salary as termination pay.

If the player who is awarded a contract through the salary arbitration process (hearing) is released 16 or more days prior to Opening Day, the player receives 30 days salary (about 1/6 of his salary) as termination pay. If the player is released 15 or fewer days prior to Opening Day, the player receives 45 days salary (about 25% of his salary) as termination pay.

However, if a player who has been awarded a contract by an arbitration panel is released during Spring Training, the MLBPA will always automatically file a grievance charging the club with cutting the player for financial reasons, tendering a contract without having any intention of paying the player what he is awarded by the arbitration panel etc.

To defend the grievance, the club just has to provide the grievance arbitrator with Spring Training stats which show that the released player was outplayed statistically by the player that took his job. This actually happened to ex-Cub Todd Walker a few years ago when he was with the San Diego Padres. Walker went to an arbitration hearing and won, but then was released by the Padres prior to Opening Day. The MLBPA filed a grievance, but lost because Walker had a bad Cactus League and was outplayed (ststistically) by other Padres infielders who were competing for the same spot on the SD 25-man roster.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 7:36pm

http://www.newser.com/article/d9jrdrf00/mlb-a...

as Passan notes, at around 9% of the league being diagnosed with ADHD, that's twice the national rate.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-stim...

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 8:31pm

"My reaction is the same as last year and the year before that," said Dr. Gary Wadler, chairman of the committee that determines the banned substances list for the World Anti-Doping Agency. "It seems to me almost incomprehensible that ADHD is so pervasive in baseball to a degree that it requires medicine."

It seems truly incomprehensible that someone has given a MD degree to someone who doesn't recognize the fact that people who have the physiology which enables them to be major league ball players don't represent the general public at all.

This man should be shot.

Submitted by Tony S.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 8:57pm

(not sure if this is sarcastic?)

If not...

No, he shouldn't.

The point (although poorly worded) is that it's un-f'n-believable that THAT many pro ballplayers have ADHD so bad that they need meds.

He's right.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:04pm

fwiw, the number of exempt MLB'ers allowed to take ADHD drugs went up from 28 to over 100 once amphetamines were banned.

That being said, millionaires will have access to better doctors and better treatment than the public.

Submitted by Tony S.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:06pm

Ah, but do drugs = better treatment? Maybe, but me says no.

(Also, isn't that all moot with the new health care bill?? ;)

Submitted by Rob G.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:08pm

I suppose I should have said more thorough diagnosis which could lead to better treatment.

Submitted by Paul Noce
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:51pm

Abortions for everyone!

Submitted by crunch
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:55pm

BOOOOOOOOOOO!

Submitted by Jumbo
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 4:13am

Very well, abortions for none!

Submitted by The Joe
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 6:08am

There are two types of people in the world: those who love abortions and those who hate women. Which side are you on?

Submitted by Dusty Baylor
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 8:34am

Abortions for some...little American Flags for others?

Submitted by crunch
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 11:10am

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Submitted by Jumbo
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 11:30am

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!

Submitted by jacos
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 11:31am

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:13pm

Say you had undiagnosed ADHD that you treated with stimulants... and they said you couldn't take the stimulants anymore... would you maybe go to a doctor, and would the doctor maybe I don't know, proscribe ADHD medication, otherwise known as stimulants?

Take another example. Say the US outlawed recreation alcohol consumption again, what would happen to the amount of anxiety proscriptions? I would bet it would be an increase of at least four fold.

Submitted by Tony S.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:19pm

Um, understood. WTF does that have to do with pro baseball (and the discordant higher numbers)?

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:22pm

Seriously? Dude, if you can't add 1 + 1, I don't know if explaining it with more words will help.

Submitted by Tony S.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:23pm

Yes, seriously.

Maybe I'm left out because I'm neither hyperactive nor a professional athlete.... type slower?

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:31pm

If you have an illness that you can treat without going to the doctor, would you go to the doctor for it?

Now, say that you can no longer treat the illness without going to the doctor, what would you do?

Ever heard of something called "chewing tobacco"? Is it illegal? Do you see 65% of MLB players using it anymore?

At some point you should learn to distinguish correlation from cause and effect. Ice cream doesn't create murderers.

Submitted by Tony S.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:42pm

ADHD is also traditionally difficult to diagnose.

It is often mistaken for a shitty batting average.

You say a lot of players suffer from ADHD, and need meds to function as people.

I say a lot of people need meds to function as players, and need ADHD scripts.

Potato, potato.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:48pm

Actually I am saying that I don't know. I am just not jumping to conclusions. We know that ball players for a long long time have relied on stimulants. What we don't know is if they are good at baseball because of the stimulants, or being good at baseball makes them pre-disposed to needing stimulants, and neither does that jackass "Dr" who got quoted in the article.

Submitted by crunch
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:54pm

whether they're good or not with or without the speed, it's banned because too many people are going out there 1/2 killing (or killing in soem cases) themselves self-medicating speed and playing the game.

it's more of a player health issue over something that's been an epidemic so f'n long that it's become a social institution.

why do baseball players chew tobacco (though it's way less now)? ...because that's what baseball players have done for a long time.

there's more than a few speculative people who think Z's issues over the past many years has partially been him trying to get his legal stimulant mix right...he's not alone.

guys like neifi perez ended up addicted to the stuff and he pretty much killed what was left of his career and left him without coaching opportunities.

stimulant abuse is just too prevalent at too many levels for too long.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 8:05am

Tobacco is a stimulant.

Submitted by Tony S.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:59pm

Fair enough, but I think my point is ball players relying on coke and hookers (or adjusting their batting gloves between pitches for that matter) being aligned with what is, to some, a serious illness and using medication to treat it is a bit much.

It's also, say, "convenient" that the same meds improve your performance. It goes back to the PED argument--should there be an asterisk next to Doc Ellis' no hitter because he was all f'd up on LSD? You don't hear that argument, because in theory the LSD didn't directly help his performance.

A better, more interesting study would be how many of those players were diagnosed with ADHD as kids (it's usually diagnosed before age 7) and how many still suffer from it after retirement.

And that jackass is the guy who makes the anti-doping regs (according to your quote, I haven't read the article yet), probably makes him an important jackass to somebody.

This website http://www.mpccares.com/add-athletes-autism.htm mentions the higher proportion of pros with ADHD but also talks about alternatives to meds and only using meds if the symptoms are "severe".

It also mentions Babe Ruth, which I found funny. He "coped" with Cubans, hot dogs and beer. Y'know, the old fashioned way.

Submitted by garsky
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 8:15am

Proscribe: forbid

Prescribe: advise, authorize or recommend

Just sayin'

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:08pm

Would it also be unbelievable that twice as many NBA players suffer from sickle cell anemia as the average populace?

Asking this guy if MLB players are cheating is like asking Bill Gates if Windows is better than Linux. His answer is self serving, and shows woeful ignorance regarding his chosen profession.

Did it occur to you that having ADHD might, I don't know, be related to having the freakish fast-twitch reflexes needed to hit MLB pitching?

Submitted by Tony S.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:21pm

No, because I don't labor under the belief that you need to be super-human to play pro sports. Call me crazy, I think you have to have some physical talent and work really fucking diligently. I don't think you have to be some sort of genetic freak with a side effect of "needing" drugs.

As a side note, they could drink fucking coffee. Just sayin.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:28pm

You probably labor under the belief that there's green men soaking in formaldehyde tubs in New Mexico, that doesn't make it true.

Did you ever play sports with anyone who played professionally?

Submitted by Tony S.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 10:15pm

No, but I have been to the 'museum' in Roswell, $3, worth every penny.

And nope, never even shaken hands with one. You?

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 8:16am

I ran track and graduated high school with someone who played basketball at UT, then went on to play in the pros, got voted to a couple of all-star teams and won a couple of gold medals.

I was a pretty good athlete, who probably could have gotten a soccer scholarship if I had stayed with it. This person didn't work very hard at track, but could beat me in the 100 and 200, and would essentially single handedly win track and field team events for our school. She could jump higher run faster, and I never tried but I wouldn't be surprised if she threw the shotput farther than me to.

There's a huge difference in athletic skill between someone who is reasonably coordinated and these professional athletes. The very shittiest of MLB players, were most likely better athletes than the star on most high school football teams.

To me it's totally in the realm of possibility that having the amount fast-twitch muscle fibers and hand eye coordination required to hit MLB pitching could also make you more prone to suffering from ADHD. It's also possible that there's no link, but there's no evidence on either side of the discussion because it's never been studied.

Submitted by jacos
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 9:02am

"The very shittiest of MLB players, were most likely better athletes than the star on most high school football teams."

totally agree

Submitted by Paul Noce
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 10:46am

Totally agree, except the shittiest MLB players were often also the star on their high school football team.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 10:58am

And basketball teams and track or soccer if they had time to work a third sport in...

Submitted by Tony S.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:24pm

And what would be unbelievable about sickle cell/NBA is if it happened to be treated with a "banned" substance that players have been taking since the fucking 1970s. Get real.

Submitted by George Altman
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 10:12pm

As a friend once said to me, "Medicine......it's a dark art."

Submitted by Tony S.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 8:59pm

Fact: People (especially very, very rich people) simply do not let the law get in the way of them getting what they want, laws-be-damned, when they are creative, smart, or creatively smart.

See marijuana, medicinal.

Submitted by Mornington Crescent
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 8:42pm

Here's an example of how an arbitration figure is arrived at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urcsxzXAUeA

Submitted by Arizona Phil
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:03pm

And here is a clip of the Cubs front office arriving at Ryan Theriot's arbitration hearing last February.

Submitted by Tony S.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:07pm

AHAHAHAAHAAA to both.

Well done.

Submitted by navigator
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 10:59am

And here's an analysis of Ryan Theriot's scrappiness.

http://www.kfns.com/joesportsfanblog/Story.as...

You can decide for yourself whether it's funny or not.

Submitted by Jumbo
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 11:35am

I give it a 3 on the funny scale
10 is good

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 11:58am

The McGwire head thing got a honest chortle from me.

Submitted by Tony S.
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 11:49am

Semi-humorous. I also didn't like the race thing, primarily because Chone Figgins is scrappy as hell, and I'm sure there are other examples...

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 11:59am

Bobby Scales. I was surprised he's not white. He's a black man in a caucasian's slow-twitch body. Sort of like Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder.

Submitted by Tony S.
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 12:00pm

Bobby Scales knows who he is. He's the dude playing the dude disguised as another dude

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 12:21pm

YOU PEOPLE?

Submitted by Tony S.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:04pm

For AZ Phil (or whoever)--

Is Gorz really worth more to the team than Sean Marshall?? I don't see it.

My other question, I guess I don't mind Baker, but wouldn't somebody at league min (Barney, hell, Bobby Scales) be just as "versatile" or "good"? Especially on a team that's realistically shooting for, what, .500 next year?

(Realize for that second question, "good" means something completely different in Cub-ese than it does in the rest of the english language)

Follow up--(pretty much specifically for AZ Phil)-- Say the Cubs sign Baker to a "reasonable" contract, can they then immediately flip him to a "contender" for a (semi-) decent prospect? Or does that fall into the "not until May 15 of the following year"? (I don't remember...)

Submitted by Arizona Phil
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:23pm

Submitted by Tony S. on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:04pm.
For AZ Phil (or whoever)--

Is Gorz really worth more to the team than Sean Marshall?? I don't see it.

My other question, I guess I don't mind Baker, but wouldn't somebody at league min (Barney, hell, Bobby Scales) be just as "versatile" or "good"? Especially on a team that's realistically shooting for, what, .500 next year?

(Realize for that second question, "good" means something completely different in Cub-ese than it does in the rest of the english language)

Follow up--(pretty much specifically for AZ Phil)-- Say the Cubs sign Baker to a "reasonable" contract, can they then immediately flip him to a "contender" for a (semi-) decent prospect? Or does that fall into the "not until May 15 of the following year"? (I don't remember...)

======================================

TONY S: Because everything is based on comparable salaries for players with similar service time who play the same position, starting pitchers make more than relief pitchers (non-closers) in the arbitration process. That's why Sean Marshall keeps saying he wants to be a starter, and why Tom Gorzelanny doesn't want to be a reliever. So while you and I wouldn't trade a Sean Marshall for a Tom Gorzelanny, the fact is Gorzelanny will make more money than Marshall as long as Gorzelanny remains a starter and Marshall remains a reliever (unless he becomes a closer).

As far as whether the Cubs can sign and then trade Baker, they can. Per the CBA, the only players who get "no trade" rights through June 15th are Article XX-B MLB free-agents who sign a major league contract after the conclusion of the "Free-Agency Filing Period" (even if the player signs with his previous club).

Prior to this season the "Free-Agency Filing Period" was the first 15 days following the conclusion of the World Series, but now players eligible to be Article XX-B MLB free-agents automatically become a free-agent the day after the conclusion of the World Series (they don't have to file), and so I don't know whether free-agents get a "no trade" if they sign anytime after the World Series or if it's still only after the first 15 days (even though there is no longer a "Free-Agency Filing Period"). This will have to be clarified in the new CBA (the current one expires next December).

Submitted by Tony S.
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:27pm

AZ Phil, thanks as always.

That still sucks, as Gorz is a mediocre starter while Marshall is a mediocre spot starter/good swingman/very good setup man (based at least on this past year)

Submitted by Mike Wellman
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 9:58am

for some reason [his shades?] i DO mind baker & am all for getting rid of the mediocre players that ARE moveable...

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 10:57am

Especially guys who you can NRI to spring training for ML contracts and MLB minimums.

Example 9582674916 Why Jim Hendry sucks

Submitted by John Beasley
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 11:45am

Disagree. He's a great platoon player. And since the team's broke, finding another half of his platoon is a lot easier than finding a good full-timer.

Submitted by Tony S.
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 11:58am

Disagree your disagree. While your point is spot on, it's moot when you're 'rebuilding' and not a foregone conclusion as a 'contender'.

Going cheap and loving it means you don't pay guys like J Baker in 2011.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 12:00pm

But he's a short-side platoon player who isn't very good in the field.... wait, who are we talking about again? I just realized I'v described 2/3rds of the Cubs roster.

Submitted by Tony S.
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 12:01pm

ha.

Submitted by The Joe
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 7:55pm

I don't like Baker's face. It's, like, 2-dimensional. Creepy. I don't care how good he is (he's not) I just don't want to look at him.

Submitted by Cubster
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 10:00pm

stimulant abuse is just too prevalent at too many levels for too long.
---
Peanut Butter and Banana sandwiches. I miss Elvis.

ADHD meds got Stevie Eyre to the World Series too.

Submitted by crunch
on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 10:17pm

there's guys that need the stuff...and part of more people needing it has to come from the generations that have grown up more aware of treatments...

i got nothing against the meds...

stimulant abuse in baseball was (and still kinda is) kinda stupid high, though. even during roid-gate it took a back seat.

some things just need to be scrubbed from the culture of baseball, imo, and this is one i don't mind seeing go bye-bye...performance enhancing or not.

Submitted by Matt
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 12:13am

Ok, the whole ADHD issue... As a child I was diagnosed, but my parents refused to put me on medication, regardless of how many teachers begged and pleaded. After about 5 years in the Navy, I decided to go get checked out on my own. Wife and kids, working, and going to college in the evening creates quite a distracting environment. I was put on Dextroamphetamine. Needless to say, I was locked in, all the time. Dropped from 230 to 190 in 6 months, Hit my first 5 homers in slow pitch sofball, and destroyed two doors at home. (It didn't help my anger issues) I decided to change to a different medication shortly there after. Homerless and back to 220... I can see why MLBers are getting on ADHD meds. I am just saying from my own experiences...

Submitted by Tony S.
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 11:51am

Wow, thanks for sharing that, I love first-hand accounts!!

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 12:01pm

Well we know Sabathia and Fielder aren't taking Dextroamphetamine... I wonder if I can trick my doctor into proscribing it for me so I can lose these last 10 lbs.

Submitted by Tony S.
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 12:27pm

Just tell him you have ADHD, it works for baseball players!!! (*ducks)

Submitted by QuietMan
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 9:38am

Berkman looking for $8 - $10 million. At least from the Rockies.

http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/statuses/1035...

Submitted by Tony S.
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 11:55am

Let me first say I LOVE the idea of Berkman at 1B for us. I like his body type, his age, his desire to prove he doesn't totally suck, etc etc.

That said, I don't see any way the Cubbies afford him. So moving on.

Am I the only one who thinks Pena is a good idea? He'll be pretty cheap, he's somewhere between passable and good defensively (?? Don't ask me, I've read all kinds of crap, actually from he's not that good to super-awesome), and it's almost impossible for him to hit below the mendoza line AGAIN. And he'll be cheaper.

My biggest surprise is that nobody's talking about him coming from the dreaded AL East. Am I the only one who thinks he gets 10-20 pts on his avg. from that move alone? Hell, with the Cubs, he'll probably hit at LEAST .240 (methinks more like .260), back to 40 or so bombs, etc.

I think it's almost a no-brainer, if he's cheap enough....

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 12:28pm

Not much of a Pena fan. Numbers are trending the wrong way, and his power was weak last year.

If we aren't going to get a difference maker (Dunn or Berkman)at 1st. Then it really signals that we are punting on 2011. In which case we should pocket payroll monies to rebuild in 2012, IMHO.

Which is all the more reason that offering arbitration to Hill, and to a lesser degree Baker. Is such a head scratcher?

If you are pleading poverty, why overpay borderline MLB talents? Its like multi-year deals for Glendon and Neifi all over again.

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 12:32pm

Also known as the.....

We thought it was crazy to give 13 million to Raffy Furcal. We'd already spent 12 million on Neifi,Glendon,Scott Eyre and Bob Howry offseason.

Luckily for us Jim Hendry never learns and has the shortest memory on the planet.

Submitted by Paul Noce
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 1:04pm

Baker signed for 1.175 mil.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/cubs-av...

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 1:12pm

such a bargain

Submitted by crunch
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 1:28pm

baker/dewitt R/L combo intact...

Submitted by jacos
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 1:32pm

fart

Submitted by crunch
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 1:36pm

fart = darwin barney

Submitted by Tony S.
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 1:58pm

I'm still hoping that looks like a good deal to somebody who cares, and we trade him and replace him with league minimum paycheck talent

Submitted by Mike Wellman
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 3:13pm

drat!

Submitted by Charlie
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 4:37pm

I think Pena is fine as long as Colvin and Soto don't lose too many at bats because of that. But then, I would have been fine with Hoffpauir, too. I think the Cubs should go very cheap this year.

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 5:02pm

I'm starting to lean that way. I just hate ownership making that kind of presadent. This is going to be one heck of a punchless offense for the forseeable future.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 5:10pm

should be $130Mish payroll, as long as it's top 3 or 4, that's in line with their revenues.

Submitted by Sweet Lou
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 5:51pm

The payroll is $130 million, but the value is only about $70 million...

Submitted by jacos
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 1:54pm

Cubs missed Eyre and Marquis??

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/12/...

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 2:05pm

"In '07 and '08, we had it. We had a different cast of players. We had Kerry Wood, we had (Mark DeRosa), Scott Eyre, Jason Marquis (we had white guys I liked).

Submitted by jacos
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 2:08pm

I see an embellishment

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 6:27pm

Eagle eye

Submitted by big_lowitzki
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 7:15am

hah... I thought the exact same thing. All the white guys.

Submitted by QuietMan
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 2:28pm

Cubs signed Brad Snyder to a minor league contract with a major league invite to spring training.

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/4931

Submitted by crunch
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 2:56pm

woo! organizational depth! =p

Submitted by Charlie
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 4:40pm

This is a good move if the Cubs decide to actually go cheap. But I feel like Hendry is going to end up half assing that, which is pointless.

Submitted by crunch
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 2:54pm

wow...it took til the afternoon for the daily "yankees bid against themselves derek jeter update"

if they don't sign him soon they'll bid against themselves all the way up to paying him 25m a year.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 2:57pm

that Dunn will end up with White Sox.

http://twitter.com/susanslusser/status/104299...

they better lock down Hendry in the Wrigley Field bunker to protect him from aaronb.

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 3:02pm

If I could get to him I would

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 3:21pm

you would be doing us all a great turn.

Submitted by navigator
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 3:03pm

Plan B:

I understand Jermaine Dye has played a game at first base...

Submitted by crunch
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 3:00pm

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...

decent fluff piece on dominican development and the cubs by c.m. with a decent amount of direct quote interviewing...

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 3:23pm

A's seem to be close on Beltre and still focusing on Berkman
Heyman echoes Dunn to WSox sentiment
Bobby Jenks non-tendered

Submitted by jacos
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 3:35pm

"Bobby Jenks non-tendered"

The team asked him to clean out his refridgerator.

Submitted by crunch
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 3:45pm

niiiiiice.

Submitted by The Joe
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 7:59pm

Ha! That literally made me laugh.

Fart.

Submitted by Rob Richardson
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 4:14pm

The Chicago White Sox have finalized a four-year, $56 million deal with free-agent slugger Adam Dunn, according to a source familiar with the situation.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/st...

Submitted by jacos
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 4:19pm

Good for them, they are going to need all the runs can get with that bullpen and rotation in decline.

Submitted by Rob Richardson
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 4:24pm

I guess he is a pretty good fit for the White Sox, but I think the Cubs will have better opportunities to spend that kind of money in the coming years.

Submitted by crunch
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 4:39pm

14m a year...finally he finds his payday.

Submitted by Jace
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 4:40pm

Great! Now everyone can stop wishing the Cubs would get him. He belongs in the AL. Moving on, people!

Submitted by Paul Noce
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 5:16pm

Dr. Aaron B. will be pissed/heartbroken.

I am glad Dunn is finally off the board.

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 6:17pm

Just bummed that management doesn't want to compete. Id give early odds on getting Agonz or Fielder next offseason at less than 10%.

Hopefully one of our prized Latin infielders can hit a Sosa-esque growth spurt over the next couple of years.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 3:59pm

Dunn apparently told Bowden on XM that he'll play LF, 1b and DH.

Submitted by crunch
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 4:08pm

as scary as it sounds...him in LF probably won't be as bad as him at 1st.

he just has no reaction time or range at 1st and he's slow/clumsy to recover. he could use the extra time to read the ball off the bat.

he'll probably take his usual funky routes and his speed has been robbed by bulk and age (though he's neither fat or too old he's always been a really big dude and that ain't easy to haul around). i wonder how his arm is these days... he used to have a decent arm, but it lost it's luster.

Submitted by Mike Wellman
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 4:27pm

Jon Heyman of SI.com hears that the Cubs are in on Konerko

Submitted by jacos
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 4:37pm

Of course, he's righthanded!

I bet Dodgers for him.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 4:49pm

See post #80.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 5:12pm

just bring back Lee

Submitted by Tony S.
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 10:00pm

Ah, but did he hear Konerko is right-handed?

Submitted by The E-Man
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 5:09pm

Latest in Chi is Sox are working on signing Konerko too...

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 5:15pm

rotoworld blurb has Williams saying he doesn't think Konerko will sign until after Winter Meetings

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 6:44pm

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2001/04/pote...

1b - Fielder, Gonzalez, Pujols
2B - K. Johnson, R. Weeks (A. Hill, R. Cano, B. Phillips have options)
SS - not bothering, but there's some decent names
3B - A. Ramirez, C. Blake, DeRosa
OF - Beltran, C. Hart, (Abreu, Swisher, Sizemore have options)
SP - CJ Wilson, Wandy, Meche (Cook, Carpenter, Oswalt have options0

Submitted by John Beasley
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 10:36pm

It's a strong class.

Add Buehrle to the list of guys who I'd be interested in signing. I'd be surprised if Pujols hit the market. If he does, Cubs had better land one of the three.

Submitted by Tony S.
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 8:32pm

I'm betting Pujols doesn't, but I'm betting even more that AGonz doesn't. He just doesn't seem the type, I think he gets traded by the deadline and extends with new team

Submitted by Paul Noce
on Sat, 12/04/2010 - 12:29am

I would like to see Scott Boros represent both Pujols and A Gonzalez and then have to juggle his presentations to teams on which one is the "greatest superstar in the history of humanity".

Submitted by Tony S.
on Sat, 12/04/2010 - 9:05am

Nice, agreed.

Submitted by Cubster
on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 10:12pm

Pierzynski 2/8, back with WSux

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/10532...

Jose Lopez off the board too, from Seattle to Rockies for someone named Chaz Roe. I wasn't interested in Lopez but he has been discussed here recently.

Mo Riviera reported near Yankee deal, 2/30.

Submitted by John Beasley
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 5:40am

George Sherrill nontendered; could be a bounceback candidate.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 1:00pm

http://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/107691855...

Nats & Cubs "stepping up their pursuit" of Brandon Webb.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 1:22pm

ADHD is the same family as Asperger's and autism and drugs used to treat it, focus on brain chemicals. I have a hard time seeing how that makes anyone's muscles react faster*. A matter of fact, untreated ADHD is associated with slower reaction times.

The severity of ADHD obviously varies in individuals, but it can be pretty debiliating and I have a hard time believing that professional baseball player would have made it that far without a diagnosis. Also, I have a hard time believing they would have made it to pro-ball if they truly had untreated ADHD, unless they are pitchers and catchers, because waiting around and not being part of the action would be unbearably difficult. Either you would have been labeled a troublemaker or they would have tried to figure out why you can't stand still and you would have been diagnosed already. The athletes would have more likely veered towards a more fast pace sport (football, basketball, tennis, soccer, etc). I also find it difficult to believe that players were self-medicating themselves, cause as far as I know just taking a stimulant isn't going to make it better and I have my doubts they were on Ritalin or Adderal. But I'm not there, I can't say for sure.**

Also, since these are exceptional athletes, they were likely given more chances and people find ways to cope even if they don't know what's going on. Now it's possible, some of these cases of ADHD are just ADD and the reporting is lazy. I think it's more likely that many of these millionaires are trying to beat the system.

That all being said, a jump in numbers should be expected once testing went in place, I find it difficult to swallow the jump being so drastic.

----
*disclaimer, I'm no doctor and I don't play one at home. I would be interested in Dr. Hecht's take even if this isn't an area of expertise for him.

**looking forward to Neal's respectful and gracious reply

Submitted by crunch
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 1:36pm

imo...speed in baseball as "something that's done" wins out over the competitive value it actually gives. it's been "done" a long time.

it used to be "greenies" and now it's Adderall. there is a near-amazing amount of adderall abuse in baseball on all levels.

that pumped feeling from the speed goes right along with the culture that chewed tobacco at a larger amount that the normal population as well as the new "sunflower crew" (can't get it? stick to gum, rookie). imo, it's needless and useless...and kids really get in trouble when they decide to use it for weight control as well as getting pumped.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 4:11pm

Correlation is not causation.

You are also baffled by why NBA players suffer from sickle cell anemia at twice the national average, I suppose?

You didn't refute the self-medication theory. The treatment is stimulants. Baseball players have always used stimulants. If you take away some of the stimulants that they relied on to self medicate, like people with anxiety self medicate with alchohol, they're going to look for something else which may include prescribed medications.

Which part is inplausible to you?

Submitted by Rob G.
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 4:23pm

completely inplausible? no

highly unlikely? sure

You didn't refute the self-medication theory. The treatment is stimulants. Baseball players have always used stimulants. If you take away some of the stimulants that they relied on to self medicate, like people with anxiety self medicate with alchohol, they're going to look for something else which may include prescribed medications.

if you take away the legality of stimulants in the league, they're going to look for a way to get past the rules too.

You are also baffled by why NBA players suffer from sickle cell anemia at twice the national average, I suppose?

I'm not.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 3:39pm

close to deal with Padres.

Arroyo signs 3/35 extension with Reds.

Submitted by Paul Noce
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 5:43pm

SD will be a good place for Harang. I've always liked him, hopefully he rebounds.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 6:09pm

to Red Sox getting some buzz

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb/news/sto...

While their pursuit of free agents Carl Crawford and Jayson Werth has grabbed most of the attention, Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein has quietly been laying the groundwork for what could be the team's biggest offensive acquisition since Manny Ramirez.

Submitted by crunch
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 6:22pm

-edit- was musing about k.youk maybe being a part of the deal...meh...forgot about BOS's 3rd base need...

whatever this is it should be interesting...wonder if they're crazy enough to give up j.lester...

Submitted by Rob G.
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 6:47pm

Hoyer's is one of Epstein's disciples of course, so he knows the system.

I'm gonna guess Bucholz, L. Anderson and Casey Kelly are at the top of the list.

Submitted by crunch
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 6:59pm

i'm so sick of hearing about l.anderson...meh.

sounds like a legit list, though.

Submitted by Arizona Phil
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 7:51pm

Submitted by Rob G. on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 6:47pm.
Hoyer's is one of Epstein's disciples of course, so he knows the system.

I'm gonna guess Bucholz, L. Anderson and Casey Kelly are at the top of the list.

=================================================

ROB G: I would think RHP Casey Kelly, SS Julio Iglesias, and 1B Anthony Rizzo would be the package. They are considered to be the Red Sox top 3 prospects.

Submitted by John Beasley
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 8:23pm

AZ, do you think the Cubs would do a package where they offer any three prospects, such as McNutt, Archer, and Vitters, or maybe a Jackson? In your opinion, would it be worth it for one year of Gonzalez's service in a year where the team will still have big holes?

Submitted by Arizona Phil
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 9:03pm

Submitted by John Beasley on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 8:23pm.
AZ, do you think the Cubs would do a package where they offer any three prospects, such as McNutt, Archer, and Vitters, or maybe a Jackson? In your opinion, would it be worth it for one year of Gonzalez's service in a year where the team will still have big holes?

====================================

JOHN B: I don't know if Hendry would do it, but I would at least offer the Padres a package of three young players for Adrian Gonzalez, as long as the Cubs are committed to offering Gonzalez salary-arbitration post-2011 (so that they can replace two of the players traded) if they can't sign him to a contract extension and he leaves as a free-agebt after next season.

While I think the Padres are probably partial to Red Sox prospects, an offer of Tyler Colvin (to immediately replace Gonzalez in the lineup), Andrew Cashner (who would be a 2011 rotation starter with SD), and either Brett Jackson, Chris Archer, Josh Vitters, Trey McNutt, or Hak-Ju Lee (for the future) might be more appealing than a package of three top Red Sox prospects (Kelly-Iglesias-Rizzo) whare all three are at least a year away.

If the Padres trade Gonzalez to the Red Sox for their top three prospects, there is no way they will be a contending team again in 2011.

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 10:10pm

I'd offer Colvin, Cashner and Hak Lee in a second for AGonz. I'd even toss in Vitters if we could frame an extension with him going forward.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Sat, 12/04/2010 - 2:06am

Jed Hoyer don't seem like the type that would want Colvin imo.

Submitted by Paul Noce
on Sat, 12/04/2010 - 12:26am

And the Pad's new minor league director also just came from the Red Sox, so he and Hoyer know those prospects inside out.

Submitted by QuietMan
on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 10:23pm

CUBS also after Gonzalez per Rosenthal.

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/10892...

Submitted by Rob G.
on Sat, 12/04/2010 - 1:59am

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Adrian-Gon...

Robothal's article on it, says Padres would ask for Cashner but not much else in there.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Sat, 12/04/2010 - 2:01am

http://www.bleachernation.com/2010/12/03/luke...

you can see the source by reading the comments

Submitted by John Beasley
on Sat, 12/04/2010 - 7:08am

Boston has a deal in principle, and Gonzalez is going to sign an extension.

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb/news/sto...

Submitted by Tony S.
on Sat, 12/04/2010 - 9:07am

Ugh. Oh well, I don't think they (cubs) were too serious anyway, 'specially this year.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sun, 12/05/2010 - 5:33pm

Giving up just Cashner from the ML roster and landing Gonzalez would make the Cubs contenders.

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