8 Best Words You'll Hear All Day

From Jon Morosi of Fox Sports...

#Cubs announce Mike Quade won't return in 2012.

and adds...

Theo Epstein says #Cubs' next manager "must have managerial or coaching experience at the major league level." Fact: Ryne Sandberg doesn't.

Meh on the last part...more in a bit.

UPDATE: More quotes...

"The managerial search process begins immediately. We are looking for someone with whom and around whom we can build a foundation for sustained success. The next manager must have leadership and communication skills; he must place an emphasis on preparation and accountability; he must establish high standards and a winning culture; he must have integrity and an open mind; and he must have managerial or coaching experience at the major league level.

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Comments

how many prospects will the cubs give up to get the next manager?

mike maddux for andrew cashner...woo.

STL and CHC looking managers...fun fun.

Trib write up.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball...

"The next manager must have leadership and communication skills; he must place an emphasis on preparation and accountability; he must establish high standards and a winning culture; he must have integrity and an open mind; and he must have managerial or coaching experience at the major league level."

Even if it doesn't seem stupid, it feels a bit hypocritical. First black mark on new President and GM... that didn't take long.

so...no in-game chicken and beer parties, eh? lame.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/718...

Hendry has nice things to say of Theo.

"I don't have a blueprint for what I'd like to do. I've had a lot of calls from friends in the game, who graciously said, 'When you're ready to work, let me know.'

That's good to hear. I am sure there's a place in baseball for him - it's just not a GM. I am not sure who was feeding him his information, but he generally had a pretty good feel for major league scouting, Garza, DeRosa, Lee, Aramis, Lily etc etc.

"I don't have a blueprint for what I'd like to do..." Jim Hendry.

------

I thought that was an old quote on his plans for building the Cubs. :)

fwiw, even if ryno has no shot at manager, i think he would agree to be on the Cubs MLB coaching staff (maybe bench coach?)

doubt they'd want that kind of second guessing from the media on the staff...

Ugh:

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Sources: #Cardinals have asked permission to interview Ryne Sandberg for managerial opening. #MLB #Phillies #Cubs
9 seconds ago

of course.

Haha.

Sandberg must be like, "Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with these people?"

The Cubs need to fix their baserunning and fielding... it's obvious that Sandberg couldn't help with that.

I get it..I suppose....but wouldn't you give Sandberg an interview at least? Was Francona that experienced?

managed the Phillies for 4 seasons and then bench coach for Rangers and A's

http://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/fr...

from the day he was hired...

The Red Sox also interviewed Los Angeles third-base coach Glenn Hoffman, Anaheim bench coach Joe Maddon and Texas first-base coach DeMarlo Hale.

Sveum apparently a big believer in advanced stats.

Oh yeah...I must've been blinded by his success in Philadelphia =P
Sheesh....thanks Rob...I must be off my game a bit..

Joe Torre sure didn't do a lot in his first gig either

Heck Bobby Cox in his first go-round in the ATL wasn't that great.... Good players sure help make managers look good.

When's Dusty's contract up?

Just ordered my Sandberg 23 Cardinals Jersey... $265 bucks, and Freese will have to give up the number to accomodate, but it will be worth it.

http://shop.mlb.com/product/index.jsp?product...

Wasn't Sandberg on the bench with the Phillies at the end of the season? If so, would that qualify as major league coaching experience, or I am just grasping at straws?

Logan Watkins tweet from yesterday says he's at Camp Colvin

http://twitter.com/WatkinsLogan/status/131468...

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospect...

1-line on each player in AFL Rising Stars game

Cub Carpenter
Touched 100 mph in last year's Rising Stars game, has done it again this fall
McNutt
Trying to bounce back, showing good fastball velocity (93-96 mph) but throwing little else
Lake
Great arm, but rest of the package hasn't caught up

That is awesome, thanks. Like reading Robert E. Howard and Lovecraft.

be fun to see how he handles McGwire situation.

be fun to see how the 3rd base coach who's been waiting patiently for a decade to be manager handles it...and pujols, too...and y.molina after 2012...

Should make it easier for us to woo Molina with Oquendo as our manager.

If memory serves, Oquendo broke Sandberg's fielding percentage record. I am sure there's still hard feelings.

they're both in the HOF at least...though one only has a joke plague in a utility closet for being one of the best utility players ever.

As to Sandberg for the Cubs, is there any evidence that he is at all a numbers guy, or at least one that would fit with Epstein's understanding of how baseball decisions should be made? I never saw Epstein hiring Sandberg, as I see Sandberg as being an oldschool guy.

Yes, Sandberg's talked about how he keeps up with sabermatics and wants to find any advantage that he can, as well as incorporate some of it in managing.

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this-just-i...

"From what I'm told, the studies that they have done on past compensation would lead me to believe that they won't get anything significant. I don't think it will be any of the Cubs' better prospects. It might be two minor league pitchers, but not any of the guys that would be considered in their top five or six prospects. I think the whole compensation thing may well be a little overblown here. I don't sense that Selig thinks this is a huge deal.

"I also think that one factor here is it's not like the Red Sox desperately need prospects. Bud has shown favorably on teams that have stuck to the draft slotting system. The Red Sox never have. They've gone above it, and I don't think there's a lot of sympathy there from Bud toward Red Sox ownership because of that."

in case there were any doubts, from Buster Olney

Theo Epstein reached out to Ryne Sandberg today, thru PHI, and explained to him he will not be a candidate for the Cubs' managerial job.

Count me in the camp that says thank you, Theo. Other than those who have a nostalgia fixation on Ryno, I couldn't be happier that this new regime is well on their way to reconfiguring all (hopefully) things currently Cubs. I now look forward to saying goodbye to "Go Cubs, Go", the 7th inning guest conductors, and some more roster fodder (Hill, DeWitt, etc.). I've never believed in curses, day baseball, etc.; the Cubs have been BAD for a very long time because they have rostered mostly players not as good at baseball as playoff teams and front office leadership that wasn't very good at building a winning organization.

You really think Theo's getting rid of "Go Cubs Go" and the 7th inning guest conductors? He just came from a team that plays "Sweet Caroline". Just pray to whatever deity you see fit that he doesn't bring that "tradition" with him.

I doubt DeWitt is going anywhere with a gaping hole at 3B and Barney at 2B.

If Barney is still starting second baseman next year then Epstein is vastly overrated.

So the Cubs are finding new starters at 3B, RF, 1B, and 2B, plus maybe a starting pitcher or two? I'm with you on not wanting Barney as a starting 2B, but finding something better at that position wouldn't seem to be very high on the current (rather extensive) to-do list.

i'd rather see dewitt, myself...barney's D fools people...it looks good, but it's slow...hell, it looks really slick in slo-mo. it gives up double plays and close plays. he's a decent glove man, but his footwork is slow even if it's solid in it's technique.

(and yes, i realize dewitt isn't a solid starting option...barney/dewitt/baker being the current options, though...meh.)

What makes DeWitt better than Barney? Is it the beard?

more power/pop in the bat...it's not like i'd be pissed to see barney over dewitt...i just favor him more.

If we're all good boys and girls, we might just get to see some combination of Dewitt, Barney, Baker, and LeMahieu manning 2B and 3B on a daily basis.

Ugh, I don't want DeWitt as the starter at any position. Heck, I don't really want him on the big league squad. He was rushed by the Dodgers, but still ... the pretty swing that was all the rage in the minors just hasn't led to much productivity and he's a defensive liability.

I'd rather see Kelly Johnson get a look instead of those two, but if it's between Barney/DeWitt ... um ... pencil me in for Barney, then. I think his D outweighs any advantage that DeWitt might give offensively, unless DeWitt makes major steps that he just hasn't shown yet.

Johnson is a type A free agent, so unless we sign two other type A free agents, he's definitely someone to I'd like to stay away from.

Totally agree on Barney over DeWitt. I think DeWitt like Theriot before him has reached the point where what he offers isn't worth what the arbitration process will pay him. He's a decent 24th man, but no need to pay $3 million for that. We can have Flaherty do it for much less.

don't think Johnson will be offered arbitration, he was about to be released.

i was actually just tossing a name out. forgot johnson was one of the two that the MLBTR guy missed.

I do wonder, in this market, if Kelly might decline arbitration. He looks like one of the more intriguing guys out there and might get more security on the open market. From Anthoupolos' side, could see him decide, okay, we either get picks or we get Kelly Johnson for one year, someone he was high on.

I just don't get it. Obviously he has the criteria to be a minor league manager in the Red Sox system and help implment the "Red Sox Way", but he can't do the same thing with the Cubs because he hasn't stood in the third base box and waved his arm at people?

Theo bitch slapped the Chicago press pretty good yesterday on the Zambrano deal, I hope they have the balls to give him some grief over this one.

So allegedly Mike Maddux is a candidate. I wonder if that means Greg would be more involved, maybe as pitching coach. Just idly speculating for the hell of it.

He is not a mentioned candidate from any person in management.

This is pure speculation on the part of the media, which is a lot different than: "...allegedly Mike Maddux is a candidate."

just give it a minute...

that may be the best sign of all (that he is not mentioned), since one of the top priorities now appears to be conducting business behind closed doors in a leakproof environment.

Right. And what candidates has management mentioned exactly? Of course it's speculation. That's why I said allegedly.

The Abbreviator is gone; that's a good start...

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20111102/s...

“Theo called me 10 minutes after they issued the press release (on Mike Quade) and told me that they have a list of guys and I'm not on it,'' Sandberg said Wednesday afternoon. “He wished me good luck and said he hoped I got a chance somewhere soon.

“He didn't owe me that at all. He didn't have to do that. It was a classy move and I'm very appreciative of the phone call. In the end, I wished him and everybody there good luck.''

Sandberg shows a classy attitude himself in this article.

while I'd certainly love to root for Ryno as manager, I don't have any idea if he's the right guy and let's face it, his top qualification for the Cubs job is his name and playing career. You have to trust they know more about him than we do and if he'd be a fit with what they want to do.

It's also certainly understandable that Theo and Co. don't want to come in as the franchise saviors that are gonna turn thins around and their first big move is to hire a guy because of nostalgia for the 80's Cubs. If they interviewed him, the circus and public pressure would intensify and if they were already pretty certain on a direction (and you have to think they are since Theo and Ben already started a Red Sox manager search), it's best to get it out of the way right at the head.

"Let's face it, his top qualification for the Cubs job is his name and playing career."

I thought it was a proven minor leauge track record, and his unprecedented level of humility is a pretty good qualification as well.

right, there's all those folks pining for Pat Listach as well.

love the player, would love for him to manage the Cubs, I can totally understand a new regime wanting their own guy and not being pressured into a popular fan decision.

Mike Quade had a "proven minor league track record," one which was more extensive then Sandberg's.

Also, how does "humility" qualify one to be a MLB manager? Clearly, lacking humility is not a disqualifying characteristic. (See LaRussa, Tony.)

Managing a major league team requires a different skill set than managing a minor league team, in my opinion. Not saying certain guys couldn't do it, just making an observation that the jobs are different.

Agreed. And managing a team requires a different skill set than being a batting instructor or a major league (not minor league) 3rd base coach.

It smacks more of Theo wanting to be a credit whore, than doing what's best for the organization.

I think its more of not wanting the criticism that would come with firing Sandberg if he wasn't successful.

Theo knows he needs a transitional MGR at this point. Why burn the Sandberg bridge on THIS ROSTER?

That may be true Doc...and a good point. But isn't one of Sandberg's selling points that he knows players coming up through the Cub system? Players that might be here in 2012 and 2013?

I think it's because he knows the system, and the system's changing

Fact of the matter is that there really aren't any/many legit Major League prospects currently in the system. So Sandberg isn't much of a plus from that perspective.

The chances are that the guy who Theo hires to manage next year ISN'T likely to be successful or have a winning record.

Theo is probably going to get a Dale Sveum or DeMarlo Hale who can instill some fundamentals and hold a place for 2 years while Theo shapes the roster going forward.

The ideal time to hire a Sandberg will be about 2015 when hopefully the roster and system are in much better shape.

Ok...that may be true, but while the Cubs are transitioning, won't some of those players get a shot to show if they are MLB players or not?

Ideally, sure..but what if sandberg goes to St. Louis and has success...why would he leave there?

Eh..maybe this really doesn't matter in the long run...I guess we'll have to just wait to see who they hire.

I'm guessing Theo doesn't give a shit about Sandberg. He's just another minor league manager to him. Probably no intention to bring him here ever, unless he is the best person for the job, which he is not.

Agreed. His appeal is just nostalgia. No one is pining for any other candidates with 5-year minor-league managerial experience. Ryno may be a great manager (two minor-league manager of the year awards is impressive), but if Theo & co. want to go another route, it's hardly indefensible.

Unless they offered Sandberg a job last year, then it seems petty.

for Cubs job...poor Ryno.

Side note, I have a man-crush on Davey Martinez and no idea or logical reason why. I dig that idea a lot

Cindy Sandberg had a lady-crush on him.......allegedly

-him +them

what a mess...i was impressed when ryno actually proved in the minors he can be a leader. he spent a long time being straight up walked on.

Good point Crunch.

I wonder if the scrutiny of the Cindy Sandberg situation has any bearing on Ryno's Managerial prospects in Chicago?

Surely it would be dredged up if he got the job?

If the rumors are true, I am not sure how much he got walked on. Was it Sandberg who got traded out of town?

It's probably happened to some of the readers here. What did was he supposed to do, tie his wife up? To me it's one of those "walked a mile in his shoes" deals.

I think someone else tied his wife up.

Eww, well, that's over

Z for player/manager...Z in RF...spend saved money on fielder, boo-ur-lee, and a jumbo-tron that points a camera at Z full-time during games.

Jamarillo, Strode and Listach under contract for 2012 as well...imagine they're next.

http://www.mlb.com/mlb/fantasy/free_agent/y20...

they changed it around this year, just 10 and each correct pick is worth 1 pt rather than using confidence points.

Bell, Beltran, Fielder, Ortiz, Papelbon, Pujols, Ramirez, Reyes, Rollins, Wilson

Congrats to Aramis...

NL
McCann, Fielder, Phillips, Tulo, Ramirez, Braun, Kemp, Upton, D. Hudson

AL
Avila, A. Gonzalez, Cano, A. Cabrera, Beltre, Granderson, Bautista, Ellsbury, Ortiz

Miguel Cabrera robbed.

sidenote, I pre-filled out the list just for yucks and got everyone but Miguel Cabrera. I almost rule.

pines for Bobby Valentine because an egomaniac like that is what Theo and Co. seem to be all about.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnis...

Oh dear god. I am working with a theory that Bobby V is a) Phil Rogers' brother-in-law, b) best friend from grade school, or c) both. Stumpin' For Bobby is as reliable a PhilMeme as Wherever This Guy's From, That's Where He Should Work.

Rogers covered the Rangers while Valentine was there manager.

Yeah but that doesn't go all the way to explaining the serious, deep love on display. Let's see, Rogers also grew up in Texas, though I doubt Valentine did...hey, wait a minute! By Phil's own logic, if he grew up in Texas, he should work there!! /begins e-mail campaign

A manager isn't all that important in terms of filling out a lineup and managing a bullpen. For a lot of guys, it's formulaic and not difficult. The hard part of a MLB manager's job is 1. managing personalities and 2. dealing with the media. A manager has to act as a lightening rod for the media and protect guys, like, oh I don't know- Starlin Castro. I like Theo's position on demanding a big league manager with experience. If that excludes Ryno, so be it. Go for the best guy for the job, not the feel-good story.

The CW is that a manager only loses games, and rarely is responsible for "winning" them.

Like...I don't know...JOHNNY B. BAKER.

I like Theo's position on demanding a big league manager with experience.

A couple problems with that. First of all, he's not demanding a big league manager with experience. The second is, do you think they're ever going to promote a player from the minors to the majors? Because, they will all be unqualified, and not prepared, being that they've never played in a big league game.

The simple truth is that Sandberg knows more about being a Cub than any candidate does. He knows more about the pressures of being a star in Chicago than anyone who will be on Theo's list. He's more familiar with the players in the system than anyone the Cubs are likely to bring in. He also knows more about "The Cubs Way" than any Cubs manager is likely to, since he showed a generation of Cubs fans how to play the game properly.

Newsflash: "The Cubs Way" of the past 103 years doesn't work.

Newsflash "The Cubs Way" that you're referring to is how Sammy and Aram played the game. You obviously never saw Sandberg play.

Newsflash Ryne Sandberg was my favorite player ever as a kid, I wanted to BE Ryno when I grew up... But how many rings did he win with the Cubs again? The point is winning it all, and if I were in Theo's shoes, I wouldn't want even a chance of Cubbery tainting my organization if I could help it. The very fact that Ryno was/is such a Cub hero is precisely why (and probably the only legit reason) he's not being considered, whether I/you/we agree with that decision or not, and frankly I don't mind that mentality from Thed (or is it Jeo?).

And mostly because I wanted to say 'Newsflash'

How many rings did Terry Francona have before getting hired by the Red Sox?
How many did Joe Torre win before going to the Yankees?

But they both had ML coaching and/or managing experience, Ryno don't, which was part of the point.

Newsflash: Dale Sveum never even played in a playoff game, his managerial career consists of a 1-3 playoff record and Theo doesn't believe in curses.

The most obvious answer is usually the correct one. In this case Theo wants his drinking buddy to be manager, just like Hendry did.

I am tired of fucking drinking buddies. I want the best people for the jobs.

Understood, but funny you didn't make that strong argument about Hoyer and McLeod, who the fuck are they but drinking buddies? And is it seriously that fucking horrible an idea to want a guy who's at least coached in the show before as your first managerial selection, ESPECIALLY after Q's faults last year?

They are drinking buddies. Just like Hendry surrounded himself with drinking buddies. The fact that Theo wants to hire another one isn't a good thing.

And is it seriously that fucking horrible an idea to want a guy who's at least coached in the show before as your first managerial selection, ESPECIALLY after Q's faults last year?

Q-Ball meets Theo's listed qualifications, Tony. Sandberg doesn't. That's scary to me.

The unlisted qualification, may well be drinking buddy. We'll see. It better fucking not be Dale Sveum, though.

Q-Ball meets Theo's qualifications, Tony. Sandberg doesn't. That's scary to me.

Thats a silly comment, considering that Q-Ball was just fired. Pretty sure that would mean that neither Q-Ball or Sandberg meet Theo's qualifications.

We're talking about that listed qualifications, try to keep up.

Hard to keep up when you edit your post after the fact. I copied directly from your comment.

I am pretty sure Rob didn't assign me edit historical comments ability.

Okay... well at some point you edited the comment.

"It better fucking not be Dale Sveum, though."

Or else what?

Was Hendry drinking buddies with Dusty and Lou? Was McPhail drinking buddies with Baylor? (I think he hired him, or was that Lynch?)

I would've been perfectly happy with Sandberg getting a shot. I guess I don't understand the angst over this so-called cronyism, though in the end, I don't have to understand it.

No, but Hendry was buddies with almost everyone else he brought in. Dusty and Lou were "proven winners" aka safe picks. When Hendry decided not to go with a safe pick, who'd he get? His drinking buddy.

Good point Neal!

How exactly did ARam and Sammy play the game, other than very successfully.

A guy who took grounders at his position every day for his lengthy big league career? A guy who knew not only to hit to the left side with a guy on second, but to try to get a hit? A guy who had an almost infallible knack of knowing when to take the extra base, and after his first couple of years only stole bases when it was important to steal bases, despite everyone in baseball hero worshipping "30/30" players?

If you honestly think that describes Aram and Sosa as ball players there's no hope for you.

If you honestly think that describes Aram and Sosa as ball players there's no hope for you.

Ummm... where did I say that?

I want productive players. Sosa and Ramirez are/were very productive players, and if the Cubs had more players as productive as those two, they would win more games.

Jesus, I had never thought of that.

What we need to do is fill the lineup with $20 million dollar players, who hit home runs, but lack in every other aspect of the game.

Yes, we'll win with a $300 million dollar payroll. Good catch.

Just how did Sosa lack "in every other aspect of the game"?

I am talking about his entire career, not the end of it.

He was generally considered as a 4-tool OFer until the last couple years.

I had major issues with Sammy Sosa, but claiming all he did was hit home runs is some major, major revisionist history. I'm actually surprised how good his OBP was looking back at his numbers, especially 1998 to 2002. OPS+ of 160, 151, 161, 203, 160 in those years. In 2001 and 2002 he had an OBP over 100 points higher than his BA.

He was a steroid user, used corked bats and seemed like a punk at times but he did far more than just hit HRs.

Good to have Johann back!!!

Good to be back! Now the Cubs better do something to warrant my excitement:-/

Yes, post 96, Sosa started to get some "respect walks".

Sandberg started to get them to some degree as well around '91.

The points remain. Am I seriously the only person who noticed that Sammy stood on the same spot in the outfield, for every batter, for every game?

So after he hit all those HR's in '96, he got respect walks. Therefore, my entire point is invalid.

One time Aram went first to third on a single... why not bring that up?

Obviously I am being too obtuse for you guys.

Sammy Sosa was a very good player. Sammy Sosa could have been a better player if he did the little things to help his team win, instead of trying to hit HR's in basically, every situtaiton. If he ran the bases as hard as he could, if he moved to where the coach told him to move when he was playing outfield, if he hit situationally on occasion, if he hit the cutoff man, etc etc.

Error-Miss Ramirez was a very good player. He could have been a better player if he did the little things to help his team win....

This "Well, he was pretty good, so we should look overlook all their obvious flaws, that didn't come from lack of talent, but just lack of comprehension about what wins baseball games and just plain old laziness" mindset is the Cubs of the last 103, years.

Just like I didn't like the managers and GM's who empowered these players to do what the felt like, I don't think it's a good idea for the fans to worship them.

What we need to do is fill the lineup with $20 million dollar players, who hit home runs, but lack in every other aspect of the game.

Wow... so now Sammy Sosa was one dimensional? Are you delusional? And while ARam is not nearly the all around player that Sosa was in the prime of his career, he isn't just a home run hitter either.

He's not delusional. Just always right.

"A guy who knew not only to hit to the left side with a guy on second, but to try to get a hit?"

I think you mean right side. Sosa had no problem remembering to try to pull the ball for a hit.

Haha, yeah. Was thinking from the infielder's perspective.

Aramis actually did this very well for most of his years with the Cubs.

i am so damn burnt out on the "offseason of suit shuffling"...or whatever.

get a new manager, complete these prospects-for-suits trades, and get to signing/trading players...hope this is over really really really quickly.

You realize that calling them suits repeatedly in attempt to devalue them doesn't automatically make it so right?

it's a term i didn't invent...it's "shorthand" for anyone who doesn't have a numbered uniform.

To be fair, it does eventually start to sound a little bit like, "Where did _______ play ball?" I get where you're coming from, but it does sound a little simplistic/dismissive.

Didn't we find out that Crane Kenney has a numbered uniform?

+1000

except for the numbered part...can't throw those +'s around like they're worthless...wait.

thank god this site doesn't have post voting.

either way...players, coaches, managers...roster-assigned numbers for being ID'd on/around the field and dugout. hell, coaching assistant dave keller has a uniform number...most people don't know he exists. technically he's coaching staff...*shrug*

I wonder if Brenly will get a thought?

My guess is DeMarlo Hale because he's very much unknown to me (from Chicago, also has a ton of minor league managing experience and a big Red Sox connection), but it's interesting that in the Wiki writeup on Hale...almost all the candidates mentioned except for Mike Maddux are listed

Before the 2006 season, Hale was named by the Boston Red Sox as their third base coach in replacement of Dale Sveum. Hale had worked with Red Sox Manager Terry Francona before, when Francona was the Rangers bench coach in 2002. On November 23, 2009, Hale was named the new Red Sox bench coach.
During the 2010 off-season Hale was rumored to be one of four finalist for the Toronto Blue Jays managerial job, along with Brian Butterfield, John Farrell, and Sandy Alomar Jr.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeMarlo_Hale

The Cubs Way of the past 104 years works for me.

Once.

I like Sandberg. I wouldn't mind him as coach and I wanted him over Quade. But I also think we need something completely opposite from the Cubs way at this point and I can get behind Theo wanting to move a completely direction. Sandberg also isn't some lock at being a good coach so I don't feel there should be hand wringing he isn't coming here.

At the risk of going all Manny.... "The Cubs Way" is playing good baseball. These Cubs teams since '98 haven't done that. They've on occasion out-talented the other teams in the NL central, but they haven't hit situationally, they've haven't worked counts to get starting pitchers out of the game, they haven't played good defense, they've been attrocious baserunners.

Can anyone think of a manager who when he played did all those things? A guy who took grounders at his position every day for his lengthy big league career? A guy who knew not only to hit to the left side with a guy on second, but to try to get a hit? A guy who had an almost infallible knack of knowing when to take the extra base, and after his first couple of years only stole bases when it was important to steal bases, despite everyone in baseball hero worshipping "30/30" players?

Now, say you had a guy like that, and he was so determined to learn the craft of managing, to help this franchise, that despite retiring with millions in the bank, he took a job in A-Ball and rode busses for six years so that he could have an opportunity to help the players in his favored franchise to play the game the right way.

And you seriously think that Dale Sveum, who is just another Epstein Crony is the better answer?

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Agree with all, except the new/old. The strike against the man you're referring to, in Hoystein's eyes, is that he WAS a Cub. It's the only thing that even remotely makes sense, to continue the 'overhaul'. Hell, Moreland might be in danger of losing his job, too.

Is it throwing out the baby with the bathwater? In my mind, yes, a little, and no, I don't agree with that decision. But it's a price I'm willing to pay, pending seeing who they DO bring in

And you seriously think that Dale Sveum, who is just another Epstein Crony is the better answer?

Are there any general managers in baseball that don't bring in their own people? And often their own people are people that they have worked with before?

I don't know the answer to that, but allegedly Theo was willing to bring in Sandberg to the Red Sox just last year.

Really the more important follow up question is "Should general managers only bring in guys they worked with before?" To that, I think the answer is a resounding "no". Part of the appeal of Theo and crew is that they're not supposed to be doing it like it was done before, right?

I'm sure he is willing to bring Sandberg to the Cubs. However, his next job here would have to be either bench coach or hitting coach. As far as I'm concerned, if Theo's manager fails to bring Sandberg in to one of those two jobs, the guy is immediately starting off on a bad foot (assuming Ryno doesn't get the St. Louis manager job).

But as for wanting someone with MLB experience? It's too hard for me to fault Epstein for that.

I thought that too (Ryno coaching), but one of the posted links said Theo told Sandberg he 'wasn't in the team's plans'.

That sounds like 'no' altogether to me, but a couple things, new manager could 'insist' (lightly), and if Ryno doesn't get offered mgr's job, he'd probably be willing to coach to get in the show.

It would definitely amp up the media to try to stir something up, but I doubt Ryno would handle it any less professionally than he ever handled everything else.

It is very rare that all-star players are also all-star coaches. All-star coaches have many times been mediocre players, but almost never good ones. Maybe Ryno could be the exception at the major league level, but I think it's silly to get bent out of shape that Theo isn't willing to take that chance.

And I'll repeat, I'm not opposed to Ryno as coach. I would have preferred him over Lou. I just think there are multiple good options and I trust Theo to make one. I'm not sure if having a Cubs icon is the best choice for our manager, especially if we're gonna go through rebuilding and a potential for really tough decisions being made player wise and maybe not a great product on the field while things get redone.

You're missing cause and effect in your logic there. There's a reason all-star players don't come back to coach (hint, it has to do with $$).

You know what's really very rare? That a Hall of Fame player comes back to coach, and the team he played for doesn't give him a shot after 7 seasons. Has that ever happened before?

Sandberg certainly has all the character boxes checked. Theo admitted that when he said, "I see what you see." The question about Sandberg is is he smarter than the guy in the other dugout. If you think he is, what makes you think that?

If he's not. Hire a bench coach who is.

What he does have is work ethic, knowledge of the level of commitment it takes to succeed in MLB, a perspective of what it is like to be a star player in Chicago, and he knows how to play winning baseball. All things we could use as a manager.

Besides the Chicago player experience, maybe one of these other guys have all that too. But why bother?

"If he's not [smarter than the other manager], hire a bench coach who is."

It's not like football, where Lovie, for example, manages the red flag while others make decisions about the offense and the defense. Baseball dugouts are autocratic. Only the manager matters.

You have the oddest ideas. What do you think Zimmer did with the Yankees, keep Torre up to date on statistics? Having a bench coach to recommend in-game strategy is pretty common practice.

They make no pre-game or in-game decisions--lineup, who to warm up, pitching changes, pinch-this or or pinch-that--so I would imagine they are mainly kibbitzers and (in Leo Durocher's case) gin-rummy players.

One thing a bench coach might do is count the players on the bench to see how many of them have snuck into the clubhouse. In that case, the Red Sox need a new bench coach.

The manager makes the decision. Many of them take advice from their bench coaches for this.

The position of bench coach is relatively new in baseball. On most teams, the bench coach is the closest thing a team has to a second-in-command. The bench coach serves as an in-game advisor to the manager, offering situational advice, and bouncing ideas back and forth in order to assist the manager in making game decisions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coach_(baseball)#Bench_coach

The bench coach's job is also to remind the manager to get relievers up, to remind them about possibly ph matchups, etc. They don't make the final decision but they do impact the managers decisions, if only to help make sure the manager is on top of the game. Another set of eyes and thinking. It's not a meaningless job at all.

Did you just cite Wikipedia? Jesus fucking christ. I should use this as an example to my students for not doing this. FYI, if you don't know, Wikipedia is user edited, meaning any user can put anything they want on there, accurate or now, citing correctly or not. Follow the link at the end of that sentence. It takes you here:

http://www.thestlcardinals.com/roleofbenchcoa...

The sentence in Wiki that you bolded is just some reader's interpretation of an interview with Joe Pettini. One could easily read that interview and come to an entirely different opinion. For instance, does Joe Pettini say that he is a second-in command? No. Instead, he says: "Mainly my responsibility when first getting here is to help set up the day’s routine, as far as the BPs, get the stretch times, set up the groups." And then "The main job I do during the course of the game is help set up the infield positioning."

That bolded sentence means absolutely nothing. That might as well just be your opinion on what a bench coach does, and you have already given that. The reality is that A) none of us have been there to really know, and B) it varies a lot depending on the manager-bench coach combo.

Have you ever actually tried to edit a wikipedia article? I have and the editorial scrutiny is pretty strict. you CANNOT just put whatever you want on there. There are editors and accredited users who routinely review it. I've had many changes reversed and in one case, a whole article removed.

I think it is safe to say, that the bench coach has a slightly different role on each team and so that link you posted is also not the be-all-and-end-all definition of what a bench coach's role is.

Any idea how that 20 something year old Wikipedia editor got Tim Wilken's page erased based on reason A7?

A7. No indication of importance (individuals, animals, organizations, web content).

probably lacked significant sources/citations. who is tim wilken anyways? ;)

I watched a guy at work go to Nancy Pelosi's page, went all the way to the bottom, then added: "Plus, she is a stupid bitch."
It certainly was taken down at some point, but who knows how long it's there or who sees it while it is there.

Actually, the article you listed is for LaRussa who didn't use his bench coach like that. It's an example of poor citation, not an interpretation of the citation. I weep for your students, that you can't figure that out without me explaining it to you.

I know that you and VA Phil know much more about the intricacies of how a major league clubhouse is operated than Joe Torre, but for us novices, can we go by this?

"Schoendienst was the closest I had in St. Louis. He'd come up to me and remind me of something from time to time. When I sat with Zim, he sort of brought me along. I was a little bit more on the conservative side and he was more on the aggressive side. We met somewhere in the middle.
"You know what's great about a bench coach? The fact you can bounce stuff off somebody instead of laying in bed at night, second-guessing what you did."

Wikipedia is fine for when you want a quick a dirty resource. I am not going to troll all over the internet every time someone doesn't know some basic thing about how MLB works.

Thanks for the research, Neal. I thought your definition of bench coach was fine. I liked my definition ("kibbitzer") as well, plus it had the virtue of being briefer than "[a guy who'd] come up to [the manager] and remind [him] of something from time to time," etc.

I think in general managers ought to look for bench coaches who might see things, know things, and think things that they themselves do not. This is not just a guy who notices stuff the manager would have seen if he had the time and energy to focus on that particular thing, but a guy who might disagree with the manager at times. There ought to be dissent at time among the various coaches, and the manager ought not to autocratically overrule on every occasion. If that's what he does, he has no reason to hire a bench coach anyway. The backup catcher or the 25th man or yesterday's starting pitcher can flip through the folders and remind of him of the matchups.

I kind of equate it to having a good caddie in golf - looking for nuances and using experience to help their manager/golfer succeed. Sometimes you are there just to agree and other times you need to be the voice of reason, or help calm things down a bit...

managers choose bench coaches.

they all do different things for different managers, especially in this era.

we have our own Cubs example of how job lines are blurred these days with this new front office...people would probably be surprised to know how much power m.scioscia has in LAA (he has theo-like powers over the "real" GM).

dusty used dick pole (lolololol) in a more traditional way in-game...pole was in charge of the stats folders and cross-checking matchups/etc. dusty asked about. lou didn't use trammel as much in that manner in-game...lou kinda liked flipping through them himself it seems. trammel was also a lot more active pre-game working with players...he was a true coach, whereas not all bench coaches have as much to give as tram. they do all kinds of other crap, but they all do different stuff for different managers from pre-game prep to in-game usefulness.

Trammell also had the vital duty of posting the lineup card in the clubhouse.

I think the 2008 squad did a lot of the positive things you list there.

The "real" Phil Rogers story...nincompoop

http://tinyurl.com/3sbtw9f

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-pass...

rather impressive list of all FA's

ranks Murton #58 and Fukudome #64.

i wouldn't mind m.cuddyer or j.kubel in RF for 2-3 years.

Hasn't Kubel been just a part-time OF in Minnesota? With no DH to split his time with, I'm a little leery...

Kevin Kouzmanoff and Betancourt would be on my wish list if they could be had at a reasonable price.

Kevin Kouzmanoff and Yuniesky Betancourt?? Uh....aren't the Cubs trying to get players who can get on base, AND field? Isn't Betancourt below average defensively almost every season?

Kouz career: .255/.300/.420
Betancourt: .268/.292/.381

allegedly the short list is M. Maddux, D. Sveum, P. Mackanin

I count 1 crony.

Let's see who gets the job.

Well if they were bringing in people just for show, they'd have brought in a minority candidate.

I wouldn't be surprised if they do that as well. I don't think the three is the entire list. Even if it is, one of them is probably going to get hired by the Red Sox.

What's Dusty's contract sitch?

Listen Sir, there's some shit you just don't joke about...

your reply was a lot funnier

LOL

SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
#redsox, #cubs both have asked for permission to interview mike maddux for manager now. terrific candidate.

@ESPNChiCubs: Phils bench coach Pete Mackanin on his way to Chicago for cub manager interview.

Olney tweets, Cubs to interview MacKanin.

http://tinyurl.com/3mgjde8

Heyman tweets, Cubs asked permission to interview Mike Maddux.

http://tinyurl.com/6x9b3jf

MacKanin tidbits:

He is a graduate of Brother Rice High School in Chicago.

He was interim manager for the Reds before they hired Dusty Baker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Mackanin

Red Sox reportedly interviewing Sandy Alomar Jr., can Theo-loogy be far behind?

Why not hire two and share them (Bob, Carol, Ted & Alice)?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064100/

our luck we get dead Natalie Wood and Kerry.

Great idea CUBSTER. Maybe Alomar, Jr. could work for the Sox until the ASB, while we have Maddux, then we swap.

Forget the manager search, we should pick the best Real Neal-created nickname:

Skinny Dick
Fountainout (never did understand that one)
Error-Miss
Cyarza

Surely I'm forgetting some.

The Fontenaut
Fontenaught (I mixed these two up a lot)
AramRam
Re-Quade

The Fontenot was like a fountain of outs when he stood in at the plate. Like one of those chocalate fountains, all the outs you could possibly want.

I am sure I'm forgetting some as well. Q-Ball is a much better one for Quade, though it doesn't quite imply the level of incompetence I'd like it to.

think it was desipio that always called Aramis...E-Ramis

that amused me.

i think it was The Farm System for Garza

Fountainout is the only one that ever gave me a chuckle.

Forgot the classic Pinhead.

2 Best Words:

Q-Ball Scratched

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