Game 103 Thread / Cubs @ Reds (3 of 3)

Game Chat Carlos Zambrano vs. Matt Belisle Christian here...Not sure if anyone at TCR Central is going to be able to post lineups before game time, but here are the probables. After yesterday's win and the Brewers' doubleheader loss, the Cubs are 1 1/2 games out of first place, the closest they've been to the top this late in the season since 2003. AZ PHIL UPDATE: Hiya Ruz! Despite the RHP starter for CIN, both Cliff Floyd and Jacque Jones get the day off. Maybe Jones has been (or is about to be) traded. Also, Koyie Hill is getting the start at catcher. Here's the lineups... * bats left # bats both Lineups:
Alfonso Soriano, LF * Scott Hatteberg, 1B
Ryan Theriot, SS Ryan Freel, CF
Derrek Lee, 1B * Ken Griffey Jr, RF
Aramis Ramirez, 3B Brandon Phillips, 2B
Mark DeRosa, RF * Adam Dunn, LF
* Mike Fontenot, 2B Jeff Keppinger, SS
# Angel Pagan, CF # Javier Valentin, C
# Koyie Hill, C Edwin Encarnacion, 3B
# Carlos Zambrano, P Matt Belisle, P
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Comments

they weren't this close late in 04? hm.

why the hell did the astros trade wheeler for wiggington? i know it's deck chairs on the titanic for both those teams right now, but wouldn't you rather have blah bullpen arm than a blah corner position player?

couldn't you at least get a "C" prospect for wheeler instead of someone who is a known, and crappy, entity?

Floyd gets the day off, yet Murton is not in the lineup.

Soriano 7
Theriot 6
Lee 3
Ramirez 5
DeRosa 9
Fontenot 4
Pagan 8
Hill 2
Z 1

damn u dusty!

hell, the kid is probably on his way to KC for jimmy gobble.

=p

sad that the best RF'r on the team is the best 2nd baseman on the team, too.

...not that the bench's full coverage this year isnt nice...its been damn nice.

Wiggington is an above average offensive second baseman. With Biggio retiring and Burke not very good this is a good pickup for Houston if they play at 2b. As a corner guy he is average (actually would be a vast improvement in RF for us), but honestly Wheeler is a average pen guy. Wiggington is more valuable than some C prospect.

Nice to hear from you again, Ruz. We all wish it were more often, but heck, Cubdom is happy nowadays and not much to complain about.

Dear Cubsfanswhowroteoffthisseasonbeforeitreallybegan,

I just have 2 words for you: EAT CROW! Don't worry, though, it's the sweet kind of crow that goes down easily. It's called winning baseball. Let's keep this up for the remainder of the season. Go Cubs!

Impressions from GABP last night:

* Could not believe it, but there seemed to be a 1:1 ratio of Cincy fans and Reds fans. I can only assume there are a lot of Cub fans in the Cincy & surrounding area. I know some of them came from Chicago, but I have a hard time believing all of them did. I drove from Ft. Wayne, In.

* Jacque Jones made up for his lack of offense by making some pretty amazing plays in the OF.

* This might be a "duh", but Cincinnati fans are not thrilled with Adam Dunn one bit.

* Cub's base coaching is really sloppy at 3B. I can't see the Cub's going into the playoffs with such sloppy base coaching. You just can't do that.

* It's always good to see an active HOF player who everyone still respects. Jr, one of the game's "good guys". The ovation he received was well deserved.

* GABP itself was nice (never been there before), but I had a couple points of contention with the experience there:

1. Re: the cheerleaders, I've always been on the side of the fence of, ahh whatever, if they want to do that, fine. I was there with 4 buddies of mine and it just didn't seem right. There were a ton of kids in the crowd and it was just kind of awkward. Two thumbs down on the cheerleaders. I've decided it's not for baseball, especially the Cincinnati area.

2. Re: the jumbotron. I've always thought if they wanted to put a jumbotron up at Wrigley, that would be fine with me, but I'll tell you I was watching the jumbotron when Soriano hit his 2nd home run. Not only is it distracting, but the animations they use at GABP on the jumbotron were cheesy and generally terrible. The most amusing part was the Kiss-cam.

Everything else was really nice there. If anyone goes, I highly recommend hitting Nicholson's, it's an Irish pub a few blocks away from the park.

"Floyd gets the day off, yet Murton is not in the lineup."

So it looks like Murt is on the block.

ratio of Cincy fans and Reds fans.

Doh, I mean Cincy fans and Cub's fans.

"Two thumbs down on the cheerleaders. I’ve decided it’s not for baseball, especially the Cincinnati area."

Also not recommened for the Milwakee area either.

I just noticed that Cubster is officially on board already. About time. I won't complain though if the good doctor spends the rest of this season talking about other teams injuries. Let's keep that bug away from Wrigley for the rest of the year.

The Reds Lineup:

The Pickin Machine
Freel
Griffey
Phillips
Dunn
Keppinger
Valentin
Encarnion
Belisle

((“Floyd gets the day off, yet Murton is not in the lineup.”----So it looks like Murt is on the block.))

Generally speaking, when a player is on the block they showcase him on the field, not the bench. Do they not?

while i would like to see murton play, i wonder how much of this has to do with the poor defense that seemed to annoy lou earlier in the year. i remember murton making a couple of really bad plays just before he was sent down.

Agree with CWTP. Maybe Pagan is on the block.

Put it another way, Pagan is certainly on the block. But maybe someone is interested.

Pagan hitting .280/.290: trade him while he's hot.

Only trade Pagan if you can't trade Jones. Pagan is the perfect 4th OF. Jones would be the perfect 4th OF except he gets paid like a starter.

"Generally speaking, when a player is on the block they showcase him on the field, not the bench. Do they not?"

When a trade is immient the player in question usally sits to advoid injury. With his late scratch yesterday and not playing today when Lou said coming into this series that Murt would get a start leads me to think he is in escrow.

A more innocent explanation of who's playing/who's not is that Jones in oh-for-Cincy, so Pagan is playing, and DeRosa is ahead of Murton on Lou's depth chart for RF. Murton was penciled in last night because DeRosa was already playing at third. Then Floyd asked in.

chifan3887 — July 29, 2007 @ 10:03 am
Wiggington is an above average offensive second baseman. With Biggio retiring and Burke not very good this is a good pickup for Houston if they play at 2b. As a corner guy he is average (actually would be a vast improvement in RF for us), but honestly Wheeler is a average pen guy. Wiggington is more valuable than some C prospect.

==============================

CHIFAN: Looks like the Astros got Ty Wigginton to be their everyday 3B, since they just DFA'd Morgan Ensberg.

Also, Dan Wheeler's days in HOU were probably numbered after he got into that one-way shoving match with Chris Sampson a couple of weeks ago (Sampson was just trying console Wheeler after he blew Sampson's lead, and Wheeler went off on him). And of course the D-Rays are absolutely desperate for bullpen help.

Lou just said that Murt will get plenty of playing time next week. He wanted Fonty's left handed bat in the lineup today, moving DeRosa from 2B to RF and Murton to the bench.

RUZ!

Welcome back! It's great to see you. The writing staff here is incredible these days in case you haven't been following very closely. Having you post on occasion would really be icing on the cake.

Some observations:
*I have to pinch myself that there's a chance we could be a half a game out at day's end.
*Big Z could have 14 wins before August. Really?
*Two days until the deadline. I'm guessing Hendry does not make any moves that qualify as more than minor tinkering--at most one reliever and one bat off of the bench. *The reliever may not even be necessary if the pitcher who shall remain nameless (Let's just call him Carey Would) actually can contribute to the team this season.
*Rocky Cherry has a future with this team it's just probably not this season in any pivotal situation. I'd love to be wrong.
*We now have the RallyRuz. Playoffs here we come.

Could our offense be more mediocre this year?Here's the average line (for players and teams) in the National League as of this morning:

.262 .329 .412 .741

the Cubs line

.269(5th) .329(8th) .411(8th) .740(8th)

correlating perfectly with our OPS is our runs scored: 476(8th)

VAPHIL: "Put it another way, Pagan is certainly on the block. But maybe someone is interested."

I do not agree with this. He is a wonderful 4th outfielder, fast, nice in the field, and has pop.

In hearing two interviews with Mark DeRosa (what a cool, engaging, funny guy) he went out of his way to compliment Pagan on his overall skills and feels he is underappreciated.

He is too valuable to the club now and has earned a spot on the roster to go in a marginal trade. Imo, it would be Murton who'd be shipped in a deal.

Welcome back Ruz!

I do not agree with this. He is a wonderful 4th outfielder, fast, nice in the field, and has pop.

Pagan is fast, but not nice in the field. His defense is actually pretty lousy, but he is able to make up for some things with his speed/athleticism. He takes TERRIBLE routes to balls and has at times looked quite silly out there.

A little bit off topic here, but I found this amusing. Check out the Cubs team page for the Japanese version of mlb.com here: http://mlb.yahoo.co.jp/team/profile/?c=24

I know most of you don't read Japanese, but check out the section in the middle of the page with the pictures. The heading says "Principal Players". There is a certain #22 in an I-Cubs hat. Priceless.

You'd think that's because they haven't updated in a while, but Soriano's right there with him. They also have "owner" as "Andy McPhail," though. That site needs updating big time.

AZ Phil,

I read that speculation in the Chronicle today and its just been made offical:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-astr...

He looks like Barney Fife

Sad to say, but rather than tradebait, right now, Matt Murton is in danger of becoming another Bobby Kielty.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?p...

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/23/232132m...

MLB needs a weight and age limit for its umps. West has in horrible postion to make that call.

Koyie Hill needs to watch some video of himself trying to hit the ball by jumping at it.

It's amazing he ever gets a hit.

FWIW Jay Payton is not playing today for the Orioles.

So was soriano's hit a HR without fan interference?

The umpires just robbed Soriano of a 2 run Home run but they called fan interferance. Because Zambrano was not hustling around the bases the umpire would not award him home plate on (according to the umpire) a ruled double.

Z was almost walking from 1st to 2nd...that lack of a run was his own fault in that specific part of the situation.

2 outs, Z...should be running anyway.

ESPN 1000 is reporting that a deal that would send Murton and a couple of prospects to the Reds is taking shape. The cubs are said to have "no interest" in acquiring Adam Dunn and ESPN is speculating that the Cubs have made a "strong push" towards acquiring Griffey Jr. and have offered the Reds a "very attractive package of players" that could send Pie along with Murton and a couple of pitching prospects. They also speculated that this could be a three way trade or the Reds could be offering Arroyo up if the Reds get Hill, Pie, Murton, and a prospect but that seems unlikely. If the deal goes thru it wont be finalized until after the Reds/Cubs series which ends Sunday.

the reds wouldnt dare pull anything like that til the cubs left town...but then again look who the reds GM is...hey, he got hamilton right.

fwiw...which is almost notta given how late in the year it is...the cubs do play @cin one more time this season to close out sept.

ooof...3 K for Koyeeee Hill today. He looks dreadful at the plate. Maybe he should face Belisle from the right side?

Any more from those ESPN 1000 reports?

"His defense is actually pretty lousy, but he is able to make up for some things with his speed/athleticism. He takes TERRIBLE routes to balls and has at times looked quite silly out there."

Well, Mark DeRosa, as well as Cubs beat reporters would strongly disagree with you. Unless you see him in-person often, I would take your "route to balls" theory your own. Of course, you did not want the DeRosa signing to even happen, right?

Z is batting .291

Isn't there a stat for adjusted ERA given a pitcher's offensive ability, or lack thereof?

Gameday just said "Injury Delay" and then "Coaching Visit to Mound" and then Ohman replaced Z.

Someone please tell me it wasn't something horrible, like his arm falling off. I'm on biz in southern Oregon and I need to know these things!

Nothing big Jordan, someone grounded a ball off his ankle I think. He wasn't even hobbling around or anything, Lou just took him out as a precautionary measure and because he'd already thrown 113 pitches anyhow.

He took the ball off his ankle in the 5th or 6th Inning, no word on broadcast, like shef said he appears ok

They also speculated that this could be a three way trade or the Reds could be offering Arroyo up if the Reds get Hill, Pie, Murton, and a prospect but that seems unlikely.
----------------------------------------------------

Which Hill?

Ah, must be Rich. Meh.

Cards down to Mil 3-0 early, but threatening with a duck on every pond and Nooooooooooooobody out.

Forget anything I just posted, it's what I get for relying on Sportsline. I think it's 6-1 Mil, but who knows.

IT COULD HAPPEN

Brewers are up 5-3 in the bottom of the 5th

It's also starting to rain pretty hard in st. Louis.

Thanks Lou.

IT COULD HAPPEN

lol, at my foolishness, I thought it would be nifty to put the newest slogan that I read about in SI at the bottom of each post, but was just as inaccurate as CBSporstline.

IT'S GONNA HAPPEN

5-4!

IT'S GONNA HAPPEN

Milwaukee's lead down to 5-4

Brewers 5-4 over St. Louis going into the 6th. The rain has also slowed.

Wow, Houston is making a game of it. Now 15 to 11. That is a very insane game there.

I'm watching the rest of the Cards game in parachat if anyone wants to come in.

So, is Jr. Griffey a Cub yet?

Instead of using Hill, Murt, and Pie to get Griffey maybe we should wait to the offseason and see if Schuerholtz would take those guys for McCann if the Salty/ Tex trade talks fall through. Lou is noted to be tough on his catchers and I wonder if its because how close he was to Munson (he gave the eugology at his funeral) that he wants his catcher to be a reflection of Munson. McCann is the one MLB catcher who is a Munson clone. Hits for a high average with some pop, great defender, and a team leader. With ATL's money issues maybe if they think Salty and McCann are near equal talents they will take a drop talent at C to add 3 quality cheap players.

Arroyo for Rich Hill and Pie?

MEH!!!!!
Not a good trade in any way.....none.

St. Louis with men on 1st and 3rd, nobody out in the ninth, trailing by one.

meh, meh, meh
Kennedy strikes out

Rolen, base hit, career RBI 1000 and the game is tied.

#59 should have read "top of the eighth" inning not ninth.

ball four!

6-5

wow the brew crew bullpen is really blowing the deal these days..its weird rooting so hard for the cardinals.

and Pujols clears the bases

9-5 Cards
another Brewers meltdown

Time to start keeping an eye on the b@stard Cardinals as well....

They don't have the overall talent that the screwers do, but they have a lot more of the things that don't fall into categories like experience and desire.

GO CUBS!!!!!!!!

Should we be concerned that the Breweres have woken up a sleeping giant in St. Louis.

Technically, the Cubs may have awakened the giant in question a couple games ago.

Brewers lose! Go Cubs!

if anyone knows the Heimlich manuver, you should really head to Milwaukee, there is a team that is choking!!!!!

they are under the crest of chad. next stop .500!!!

we win tomorrow 1st fucking place!!!!

w00t! 1/2 game back... big home stand coming up. Go Cubs!

The schedule favors St. Louis right now. It's going to be tough to keep the Cardinals from picking up some games on us. Their next six are against the Pirates and Nationals while I believe we play the Phillies and Mets.

nothing is impossible but the cubs would have to really melt down and the cards will have to catch fire to get back in this. if the cubs went .500 from here on out, we win 85 games. the cards woudl have to go .600 here on out. As long as we play above .500 baseball, we will stay ahead of the cards.

my point? my point is that as long as we keep winning, its too late for the cards to 'out win' us.

My sister met the Piniellas. Maybe 3 or 4 weeks ago, Mrs. Sweet Lou seemed to think that Griffey Jr. really wanted to come to Chicago to play for Lou again. I think it will happen. God's honest truth. She also said that ARod didnt want to leave the Yankees.

I think Griffey would be fun in RF, but a liability and injury risk due to the difficult playing conditions out there.

Wow. I just worked on something, peeked at the MIL-STL score, and yelled "Yes!" loud enough to scare my cat. The Brewers blew another one?

I can't believe I'm looking forward to this week against Philly and the Mets...

imo, the cards are not on the radar until they get to .500.

How much teeth is there to that Griffey trade rumor? Or is it just sports radio dipshits talking out of their collective ass?

IACUB,

I think that there is no question that the CUbs are trying to get grif, i just don't believe the reports about who else is involved.

Chad, who do you think Hendry is willing to give up for Grif?

Oh, and have you been starting any shit over at brewcrewball? There's someone over there who is a Cubs fan with maximum snark and smackdown. It's pretty fun to watch the meltdown there.

Good grief. Can we get excited about the season yet? 1/2 a game out of first? This team has some serious moxy...and I don't mean moxygoshthisitchesherpes. At least I hope they don't have herpes.

Next stop first place!! Go Cubs!

Sheesh. I haven't felt this excited since 2004 before the meltdown. I really like the attitude Sweet Lou's team is giving off these days.

i go by that site but i don't post cause i don't want to be a troll. would we want some brewer fan or cardinal fan here?

I'll keep my fighting and snarkiness to the guys here. oh, i'm an even bigger ahole over at that other Cub blog. those ass hats desereve it.

Good grief. Can we get excited about the season yet? 1/2 a game out of first? This team has some serious moxy

I'll tell ya one guy who isn't excited (probably because he was just here to peddle tickets).... Mr "this is a .500 team" mannytrillo.

Chad, with you on that. Trolls suck, indeed. Do you remember that psycho Seahawks fan after the first Bears playoff game coming over to WCG? Also hear you on The Other Cubs Blog Which Shall Go Nameless. Some real dickweeds over there - any time you express snark over a stupid f'ing play by the Cubs they get all pissed off like you've insulted their mommy and daddy. I love the Cubs, but damn, if they make a dumb play I've got to talk about the elephant in the room.

I measure my Cubs mania by how frequently I go looking for news articles. It's been ramping up the past few weeks, and with us only being half game back and with the trade deadline, it seems like I'm now constantly scanning the newswire.

We're now ahead of MKE in the loss column. Far freaking out.

"Should we be concerned that the Breweres have woken up a sleeping giant in St. Louis."

check out that pitching and breathe easy.

outside of duncan/pujols there's not a lot to fear in the lineup aside from some interesting mid-level lineup pieces like encarcenon/rolen (sorry, rolen just isnt what he was) and a buncha singles hitters like eck/miles/kennedy...

that pitching, though...phew...wow...ugg...

La Russa has a way of taking crap and turning it into a team. Still with their rotation, I can't see them being a real threat of anything. Kip Wells? Seriously? Isn't he a Pirates cast-off?

from ye olde world o' roto...via cubs.mlb.com

"According to MLB.com, Matt Murton was supposed to start Sunday, but was scratched because manager Lou Piniella felt he had too many right-handed bats in the lineup and wanted to insert at least one lefty."

LA and Arizona both on the verge of losing.

Cubs will be 1 GB in the Wild Card from both teams, who share the virtual tie for the NL West lead. SD is 0.5 GB in that race as well.

I know the division is more exciting, but I just wanna get in the p*******.

Bears acquire Darwin Walker for undisclosed 08 draft pick.

Color me excited about the acquisition. Hope the pick isn't too high.

Been a good sports day. :D

re:#87

via roto? via MLB.com?

see #20, Lou Piniella said it in the pre-game show on WGN Radio

FWIW, Rosenthal said this evening on the national Fox Sports radio feed that he didn't think Griffey would get dealt.

Actually, he didn't even mention the Cubs in any trades, instead focusing his "Cubs time" on us getting Wood back to bolster the pen.

ZHL: I know the division is more exciting, but I just wanna get in the p*******.

John Steinbeck once wrote "it is not good to want a thing too much. It drives away the luck." I'm cool with that, though, because I'm not a big believer in luck.

Besides the fact that they lost both games of the double-header last night, and lost a 4-game series with the struggling Reds, the Brewers have suffered some heartbreaking individual losses at a time in the season where they are expecting to perform.

Exhibit 1 -- The comeback win the Rox staged on the first game back from the ASB.

Exhibit 2 -- The dramatic 5-2 win the DBacks took on July 18. The score remained 2-2 nearly the entire game until the 8th when youngster Mike Reynolds hit a 3-run shot.

Exhibit 3 -- The comeback win SF took on July 20th.

Exhibit 4 -- Valentine's dramatic walk-off single in the 12th to beat Milwaukee on July 23rd.

Exhibit 5 -- The walk-off home run Jr. hit to take the 3rd game of the series from the Brewers on July 26th.

Exhibit 6 -- Despite being up 5-0 against the Cards today, the Cards come back and win it 9-5.

It's been a heart-breaker ever since the ASB for Milwaukee and it can't feel good if you are a Brewer.

It’s been a heart-breaker ever since the ASB for Milwaukee and it can’t feel good if you are a Brewer.
-----------------------

Sure as hell feels good if you are a Cub !!

Grif would be a nice addition, but I still feel Dye will be packing up and moving to the northside.

Seems as though our old friend W will pitch on Tuesday evening at AA Tennessee when the face the D-Jaxx. The plan is to come in during an inning and then pitch the entire next inning.

If that goes well, it sounds like Thursday may be the callup day.

Little Nate Lewis — July 29, 2007 @ 5:37 pm

FWIW, Rosenthal said this evening on the national Fox Sports radio feed that he didn’t think Griffey would get dealt.

Actually, he didn’t even mention the Cubs in any trades, instead focusing his “Cubs time” on us getting Wood back to bolster the pen.

===========================

LITTLE NATE: I agree with Rosenthal.

If they couldn't complete the Zambrano extention because ownership is in limbo, how can the Cubs hope to take on Ken Griffey Jr's mega-contract?

Junior is making $12.5M per year through 2009 (or a $4M buy-out for '09). So he's owed about $4M for the rest of this season, $12.5M next year, and at least another $4M (if the contract buy-out option is exercised for 2009 post-'08).

If Hendry does indeed have the OK to commit that kind of cash post-2007, then why wasn't the Zambrano extention completed?

what's the worst winning percentage on the road, by a team which made the playoffs? Maybe the Brewers are going for that mark

They can't dave cause they ain't making the playoffs.

I sense some sympathy for the Brewers death spiral. I'm too old and blue for sympathy on any level for any team. Not after what this team has put me through.

Besides, the Brewers are the team of the future. It's pretty much a lock they'll win the division within the next three years.

It's a really good young ball club.

O&B:

That team is a lock for nothing. They have 2 stars in Braun and Fielder and out side of oft injured Ben Sheets their pitching sucks. The got lucky for a couple of months but now the mirrors are shattered and the smoke has cleared. JJ Hardy is showing that he's NOT going to hit 30+ homers ever (18 in the first half) and Ricky Weeks and Bill hall are good players but nothing special.

They still have GOFF (sic) Jenkins and Corey Hart in the outfiled and excuse me if that doesn't excite me.

This was their one year and they lost it. Turbow is turning back into the pumpkin he is and Cordero is a decent closer but far from the guy he was in texas.

I got news for you, the team that is going to win the central for the next three years is the Cubs.

Chad, I'd feel better about saying that if Zambrano was signed.

Chad, the last time you confidently predicted doom and gloom for the Brewers (ie Crest of Chad day), Milwaukee went on a tear for about 2 weeks.

In other words, stop jinxing us...

I sense some sympathy for the Brewers death spiral.

none here,

they have sucked on the road all year and I suspect they drug the sausages on the visiting team's buffet table at home

Chad:
I got news for you, the team that is going to win the central for the next three years is the Cubs.

That's pretty ambitious. Actually, it's kind of depressing the Cub's are having as much trouble as they are trying to win the division.

I keep hearing the rumor that Pinella does not like Murton: however Matt is the Cub player that most closely resembles Lou as a player. Both featured pretty good offensive skills and limited defensive ability.

Old and Blue:
I sense some sympathy for the Brewers death spiral.

Absolutely not. When I wrote the post about the heartbreaking losses, my point was these losses have to effect a young team in a bad way. No way they walk away from these last few weeks pumped up a ready to play Tuesday.

Advantage Cubs.

I didn't even mention the loss of Sheets.

Dave in Pit:
what’s the worst winning percentage on the road, by a team which made the playoffs? Maybe the Brewers are going for that mark

They say good teams play well on the road.

Whoever is posting as here we come on Brewcrewball is hiarious. Keep it up whoever it is!Those Brewer fags are actually offended by his use of internet lingo. HA!

ZHL: I know the division is more exciting, but I just wanna get in the p*******.

p*******, P*******???? You want to talk about P*******?????????

IT'S GONNA HAPPEN

i would say that i don't think its cool for that guy to be trolling like that. its one thing to go there to talk about the brewers and cubs and such and another just to talk shit. i think he's pretty rude.

Rynox, my comment was directed at you specifically, and I didn't mean it as criticism anyway. There's even something to be said about a team that is winning the way they have been.

That said, I'm in a take no prisoners type of mode, and I am hoping the Brewers build some character by going down in flames.

Umm, I meant it WAS NOT directed at Rynox specifically.

As the guy who ran out to punch Randy Meyers said...

"its gonna happen."

FWIW, it's not exactly a death spiral by the Brewers, although I'm sure to BrewersFan it feels like the wheels are falling off.

For some perspective, here are some charts of how the NL Central teams are tracking against the .500 mark: Season to date and Since June 1.

So was this ESPN 1000 report (see post #35) simply a one-time B.S. statement, or have they been mentioning this rumor throughout the day?

Anyone had the station on today?

Good question, LNL. I've been wondering the same thing. That's kind of a big time rumor for ESPN 1000 to report and then apparently drop. Is there more news?

Dont know if this was mentioned but this is from espn.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=27...

Zambrano left the game with cramps in his right calf after striking out pinch-hitter Norris Hopper leading off the eighth inning.

"Any time I can do anything -- hitting, running the bases, kicking the ball -- I've got to use my God-given ability," Zambrano said.

well the one thing the Brewers haven't missed so far is Ben Sheets...

Griffey would look good in RF and solidify us there, but it depends on who is included in the package.

Regardless of his recent injury history, the guy is 37 years old (despite his "Jr." status) and is a fraction of the player he was in Seattle. This is the guy who was supposed to break all the records. He's living off his past reputation, because he's not that player anymore.

Murton or Jones certainly are tradable, but giving up both R. Hill and Pie would be tremendously expensive. With Griffey's fat contract, that makes signing Zambrano more complicated. Big-Z is much more valuable commodity.

Also, Hill is a better pitcher that Arroyo any day of the week. Given the "average" offense of the Cubs, it's clear that pitching is why they are in contention. Why give it away?

Dusty Baker (broadcasting with John Miller and Orel Hershiser on the ESPN Sunday night game) recalled that he was on deck when Hank Aaron hit #715 (true) and that they stopped play to celebrate it (true). Dusty then claimed that when he came to bat, he heard "clank clank clank clank" -- the sounds of chairs folding up as people left (probably true :). He then claimed that he hit a double (false according to retrosheet).
-----
BRAVES 4TH: Evans reached on an error by Russell; Aaron homered
[Evans scored (unearned)]; Aaron's 715th to pass Ruth - 11
minute delay for celebration; Baker walked...
------

He then told an interesting story I'd never heard before. I found an article on the web where Dusty had told it previously:

-----
"What impressed me," Baker said, "is how calm and focused and determined and driven he was, especially with all the death threats. People don't believe the scope of it, but I was there. I remember one night, Hank said, 'There's a guy here in a red coat who's gonna shoot me. You better not sit next to me.'

"Me and Ralph [Garr] sat with him anyway. Hank didn't look around at all. I was the one looking around, and if I saw anybody in a red coat, I was ducking. The guy of course never showed up, but that whole game we were scared."
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Now that I read further, I see that he also claims in that web article to have hit a double. Either he's nuts or retrosheet is wrong.

Of course, the two aren't mutually exclusive...

Sorry about the duplicate posting.

I agree with you Chad, on the Brewers meltdown..not for the same reasons, nut I do agree. The Brew Crew is a year ahead of schedule, maybe 2...

Corey Hart: .284/.353/.516...16HR, 44 RBI, 16/20 SB

Cliff Floyd: .294/.357/.397, 4 HR 33 RBI, 0/0 SB.

I'll take Hart.

Beat the Phillies Cubs...C'mon!!!!!

Hey Roy Hobbs,

We are not trading for 1997 Jr. we are trading for a guy who this year has hit:

.274 .387 .531 with 25 home runs

He has more homers than our big three. Our big three who are in the prime of their career.

Jr would be a great player for us. I just don't want to sell the farm for him.

Dusty, Corey Hart is a nice player. But I don't think he's special. And Cliff Floyd is really a stop gap measure. You should be comparing Hart to Soriano.

Chad,

I completely agree. 1997 Griffey was made of unobtanium. 2007 Griffey is a solid but overpaid injury risk. I would enjoy having him on the team, but I don't want to see the Cubs get "Nomar-ed" again. Anyway the Cubs won a ton of games without hitting a HR.

I can see trading Jones, Murton, Pagan, and maybe even Pie or Marshall. But any trade of Rich Hill is a mistake, and I don't think Hendry would make that call. I also would hate to see Soto leave in any moves. I'm anxious to see the kid play.

Nat,

Right now I think we agree with each other. I wouldn't trade Rich Hill either. I would trade Gallagher and Murton for Griffey.

Realistically I think Griffey's worth more to the Reds than anyone else, which makes him unlikely to be traded.

It seems unlikely to me, too. I am pretty sure that, of the names frequently mentioned to be on the block, Griffey is the only one I would want for the Cubs.

Griffey isn't going anywhere kids. He's within closing distance of 600 HRs and he's the only reason why people show up for games here in the Natti. Dunn has worn out his welcome, but he's nearly impossible to deal due to his pending free-agency if dealt. The only Reds players that can/will be dealt are Hatteberg, Conine, and Lohse.

Even the 2007 version of Griffey would be a nice fit into the line up. It would provide a respected bat in the 5 spot of the line up. If a package of Murton, top level pitching prospect (Gallagher) and a good lower level prospect will make it happen, then roll the dice.

I agree that Rich Hill and Marshall are too valuable to this team to trade, especially without Z signed for next year and the lack of any quality starters on the market.

I don't recall the Nomar deal being that costly to the Cubs. Cubs got Nomar and Murton and gave up A-Gon, Francis Beltran and Brendan Harris if I recall correctly. I'll take Griffey in a similar deal.

Would've been nice if Seattle tanked and Jose Guillen was available. With them still in it in the AL West, not sure there's a "perfect" player out there for the Cubs. (Money, who we need to give up, fit in the lineup/field/clubhouse/etc.)

Phil mentioned Mark Sweeney as a pinch-hitter, which might be nice, since he wouldn't cost a lot of talent, but in terms of an impact guy, the ship probably sailed.

If Griffey doesn't leave Cinnci, he will never see the post-season. I firmly believe that if he wants out of Cinnci, they will deal him.

This says it all:

DM CUB DFAN: "I agree that Rich Hill and Marshall are too valuable to this team to trade, especially without Z signed for next year and the lack of any quality starters on the market."

I agree 100%

I dont buy this Griffey rumor because why would only Levine be reporting this. The only way I think this could happen is if Griffey has asked out, but doesn't want the media to report anything because he does not want to deal with trade watch. Griffey has a good relationship with the press so maybe they respect his wishes. ESPN 1000 will have local updates starting sometime between 5:20-6 during a commerical break during Mike & Mike.

You don't call Jason Jennings a quality starter?

Old Man Gammons just said Bobby Kielty to the Cubs possilby. Thoughts? I didn't know much about him but I looked him up and he is a switch hitter who hits lefties really well. .509 slugging? That's pretty cool.

Thoughts?

Upon further investigation here is Kielty's career numbers vs. lefties:

676 AB (about 1 full season) 200 H 54 2b 30 hrs 109 RBIs 85 bb

Really good numbers.

You don’t call Jason Jennings a quality starter?

You mean Jason Jennings and his 5.99 ERA? Who in his last four years has had ERA+ of 93, 99, 127, and 77 (100 is average)?

Yea... not very quailty.

sarcasm > dave

Yea Neal... I thought so, but I couldn't quite tell.

Wait...ok Chad. Hart vs. Soriano

Soriano:.298/.338/.524, 18 HR 42 RBI, 15/19 SB, 71 R. 31 years old
Hart.280/.350/.510, 16 HR, 44 RBI, 16/20 SB, 54 R
Moved to Leadoff May 30th. 25 years old.

Hmm...ok. I'll take Hart, and put him in RF..
Over Soriano? No....but in RF, absolutely.

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