Gameday Open Thread/White Sox @ Cubs

The Cubs finish their Vegas tour with Aaron Heilman taking the mound. The game is on WGN television and WSCR radio and on MLB.com as well.

Comments

Dave Roberts released...

shall we dump Gathright now?

Sounds like it's because his knee is bad. I can't imagine wanting to drop even 400K on him at this point. He's probably done.

probably so...

can we still dump Gathright?

Fukudome has 4 walks in WBC opener. Looks like his plate discipline is going to lead him back to success.

Hey-hey Go Cubs Take down the Sux!

What a lose - How could I have thought I was comment 1 almost an hour late? Oh, well... I still say Go Cubs!

"What a lose - How could I have thought I was comment 1 almost an hour late?"

Is this some sort of code?

I'm there.

#33 Re: Afternoon Delight
Submitted by The Joe on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 2:32pm.
Uh oh. Juan Pierre is available.

__________________________

Speed never slumps.

I coined a phrase for just such an occasion: "You can't steal first base".

Did the Dodgers hand out the 2 worst OF contracts of the past 10 years or what with their deals for Pierre and Andruw Jones? Holy smokes, I'm surprised Manny got signed!

Hold on now! The jury's still out on Fukudome.

and bradley

Both guys would have to suck REALLY bad to be in the same class as Jones! 2/$36 for his terrible season last year and then getting run out of town - it would be tough to top that!

every year it's more and more ST games earlier and earlier...

great 2 days of games on WGN...

also...THERE'S MONSTERS OUT THERE KILLING OUR PEOPLE!!!!

Murton (Colorado) and Pagan (NYM) are tearing it up so far in ST! Maybe we can get one of them back!

NOT!!

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=2...

"It just might be, when it's all said and done, we might have to have an extra infielder that can play first and third," said Piniella, following his team's 4-3 loss to the White Sox. "I'll tell you why.

"Assuming that we stay the way we are, all of a sudden, we need to pinch-hit and we've got Miles or Fontenot or Theriot sitting on the bench. Once I use them, I've got no more infielders. We're done. And these kids here are our nice options to send up late in the ballgame because they're athletic, they can hit, they can run. But, boy, once you make a move, we don't have any more infielders."

The (DeRosa) Cubs (DeRosa) are (DeRosa) fucking (DeRosa) geniuses.

hey everyone, see if we can help navigator spot the actual difference

 

2008
2009
INF Theriot INF Theriot
INF/OF DeRosa INF Miles
INF Fontenot INF Fontenot
INF/OF Ward INF/OF Hoffpauir
INF Cedeno OF Gathright

Ummmm... Miles can't play in the OF?

Seriously, if Lou absolutely has to carry a guy like Gathright for speed/PR/late inning defense, then the reality is that he is going to have to go with 14 position players and only 11 pitchers (rather than 12), because he does need someone capable to back up Aramis if he gets hurt. If he can find another guy like DeRosa who can play 3B/OF, which I think we would have signed by now (or not traded DeRosa), then he would be able to carry 12 pitchers.

FWIW, I don't understand the logic of trading Pie and keeping Gathright, since they would fill basically the same role and Pie is 3 years younger with more upside. I know he is out of options, so the only thing I can think is that Hendry wanted to trade him somewhere he thought Felix might be able to start or play regularly. At least Hendry traded most of these guys to AL teams, so they won't come back to bite us too much!

"At least Hendry traded most of these guys to AL teams, so they won't come back to bite us too much!"

I'm not super worried about Pie, Hill, or Ronnie biting anyone too much, especially the Cubs.

not positive, but I think Rob was implying getting rid of Cedeno and signing Gathright has done more damage to our depth than the Derosa trade

yes, that was what I was saying....the missing infielder is Cedeno, not DeRosa.

Gathright replaces Cedeno's speed on the bench.

The problem is Fukudome. He adds no value.

The solution is an infielder who slap-hits and runs like Gathright. Actually, that's a pretty desirable player and not something readily available for $800K.

Think I've finally got 2K9 to a playable state. It doesn't play great, but it plays good enough for me considering how nice the other stuff about the game is. I've had like 4 or 5 good games in a row without a whole bunch of stupid shit happening. Apparently there's a fix coming for the rest of the crap that I can't fix (AI never taking a strike, stupid glitch with the first baseman not standing on the base, etc).

Took some work, but at the point that I've got it, I'd recommend it to anybody else. Figured I'd say something about it since I pretty much drove the bus over it a couple days ago.

Lots of positive stuff about the game that nobody's talking about because of the problems.

Wish I could see where you set your sliders. Mine is too easy. I haven't been in a big rush to make it harder, though... that's just how I roll.

I would just save your money and get MLB The Show 2009. Best baseball game on the market.

Hey Rob you get any free copies of it this year? The economy is in the pooper, i need a "stimulus" game to keep me going.

Oh, I misunderstood his posting. That's what I have, MLB 09 The Show.

The Show is hard enough on the normal setting much less going to the other settings, lol.

Early reviews for 2k9 are saying that because of their exclusive 3rd party deal they have produced a shitty game that fixes none of their old problems.

2k Sports has never produced a worthwhile baseball game to date and with no competition they have no reason to anymore.

Hey Rob you get any free copies of it this year? The economy is in the pooper, i need a "stimulus" game to keep me going.

They didn't contact me this year.

I'd love to get The Show, but I'm an idiot and have a 360.

D Lee played third base for Korea last night.

http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/baseball/wbbc/boxs...

I hope we didn't trade him back for Hee Seop Choi.

THAT D Lee is a monster...and I would throw this out there that I wouldn't mind the Cubs making him our ONLY DLee.

Can anybody comment on how Heilman looked? I'm never able to actually watch or listen to the ST games.

Marshall and Heilman slot 4/5 in the rotation, Marmol to closer, Gregg in the 8th inning and Harden as the highest-paid "fireman" since DeNiro made "Backdraft." Or flip Marmol and Harden if Richie Rich needs a more-structured timetable for warming up.

Discuss?

Harden 5th (skipping the 5th starter whenever possible) Masrh/Heil 4th, Gregg closer, Marmolade 8th/whenever needed to get out a jam, DJ Jazzy Jeff as the 3rd guy out of the pen.

Z
Dump
Lillyhammer
Marsh/Heilman
Harden

CL: Gregg
SU: Marmol
Long: Marsh (not 4th starter)
LOOGY: Cotts
Then in order out of the pen:
Heil (if he's not 4th starter)
Samninja
Guadin
Gooz/Vizciano/Hart/Whoever else they keep in the pen

Ignoring the Marmol/Gregg debate for a moment, you essentially say Marshall and Heilman will be the 4th/5th anyways once Harden makes his twice-annual trip to the DL. So why not set it up that way to start with, and have a volatile but extremely talented pitcher in the 'pen who strikes out a ton of dude and can never make it past 6 innings as a starter anyways?

I just remember reading somewhere that Harden takes forever to warm up, which isn't ideal for being in the pen. Marsh/Heil if they're in the pen will be able to switch to the rotation within 10 days (perhaps an emergency Ryan O'Malley start) to allow them to stretch out for their upcoming start.

I just don't see the point in basically eliminating any chance Harden has at starting. If he's healthy he's one of the best. Hope for some health but have some backup if need be.

That's why I thought maybe in a defined role like closer - more of a structured time to warm up.

Yes, he has a brilliant ERA and K/9, but if he can almost never pitch into the 7th, can we really call him one of the best? If he constantly has to be skipped to stay healthy and still gets hurt all the time, is he really one of the best?

OK I'm done ragging. Just sayin', this hasn't really been discussed and at least at first glance seems to make some sense.

Eh, even if he only gives you 6 full innings at 3.00 ERA, I'm all for it.

Some guys are able to consistently go into the 7th, 8th because their arms are just built like that, while others arms just can't.

But bottom line is 6 innings at 3.0 ERA ball is better then someone giving 7 of 4.00 ERA.

Even if he were to succeed as a closer, I still say he's only marginally better than Gregg/Marmol (some may say not even better than Marmol) but he's significantly better than Heilman/Marshall

So why not set it up that way to start with, and have a volatile but extremely talented pitcher in the 'pen who strikes out a ton of dude and can never make it past 6 innings as a starter anyways?

Well.. maybe because Harden is twice the pitcher that either Marshall or Heilman are. And further, I would be willing to bet that it will be the very rare start where Marshall or Heilman make it past six innings.

Harden went into the 7th 4 times in 13 starts for the Cubs last year; Marshall once in seven starts. Given Marshall the chance to hold a rotation spot and not be a swingman, I would predict a better performance.

Harden is twice the pitcher, sure ... but if it's only for half the innings, then that negates much of his positive.

SunTimes via Rotoworld

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playe...

Cubs manager Lou Piniella said despite Mike Fontenot's impressive 2008, he hasn't settled on him as the everyday second baseman.

Fontenot's 2008 line: .305/.395/.514 in 243 at-bats. "They're good numbers, aren't they?" Piniella said. "I'm not saying we won't [make Fontenot the every-day second baseman]. At the same time, when we rest [Aramis] Ramirez, I need somebody that I can put over there. You don't really want to be moving your regulars around too much."

Sacrificing that kind of production at second base for more options at third base is a poor decision. Chances are, Piniella knows this, and Fontenot's playing time will reflect it. Mar. 6 - 10:05 am et
Source: Chicago Sun-Times

Wherefore art thou, Mark DeRo?

We got it the first time. You want DeRosa back. He'd gone. Deal with it.

Not that I have a problem with moving DeRosa, I'd like him to be on the team still, but that isn't what I'm going to ramble about.

If the argument was that the Cubs needed to shed some cap room (I believe DeRo was on the books for about 6 M this season), I'm okay with that. But they paid Miles 2.2 M and for the extra 2.8 (especially for the cubs) isn't an issue. The comparison between the two isn't even close.

Now if they felt DeRo couldn't match those numbers from last year, and actually sold HIGH for once, okay. But considering the track record I don't see that being the case.

And if they didn't think they could sign him to an extension after this season at a reasonable amount, he would have almost certainly been a Type A FA (like Hudson was this season) and they would have gotten comparable talent with that (worst case scenario) sandwich pick then they did now. Being an Indians fan as well, the 3 they gave up weren't really in their long-tern big picture plans.

I could have the whole type A thing wrong, I could be talking out of my ass, i don't know. I just don't accept the "we needed to cut salary" argument. 6 M for a guy who can play 2B, 3B, RF and hit like he does, is a steal.

it really does seem like the cubs were nickle/diming their way to 140m...which is kinda mind-blowing any team can nickle/dime their way to 140m.

people may not like that loot being used on gathright, bako, gaudy, miles, etc...but it is what it is.

Agreed,

Aaron Miles is a guy who should be looking for a ST invite right now. Instead the Cubs gave him a Neifi Perez type deal. Hopefully the mistake isn't compounded by Lou/Hendry shoving Miles and 400Ab's down our eyeballs over the next 2 years.

Keeping Ronny Cedeno would have been a better move than paying Miles for 2 years.

"Keeping Ronny Cedeno would have been a better move than paying Miles for 2 years."

The better solution: Get rid of Ronny and don't sign Miles.

Uh, I also endorse the idea of keeping ball players that are a net positive to the team such as Derosa, rather than trading them and getting, um, Aaron Miles for example, as a replacement.

To me, it feels like a lot of the early offseason Cubs moves (trading DeRosa to shed salary and get some young pitching, signing Miles, trading for G. Olson) were done to set up a possible Jake Peavy deal. I think once it became apparent that the Peavy trade wasn't going to happen (maybe SD wanted more in return after the Winter Meetings, or different players, whatever), then the Cubs started getting rid of guys they were planning on using to acquire Peavy (Olson, Cedeno, Pie, Hill, etc.) and went to plan B, which was to acquire Heilman and get more starter depth.

IMO, trading DeRosa so you could set things up to get Peavy makes a lot of sense. After the fact, with no Peavy and the prospect of Miles as our primary back-up IF, trading DeRo doesn't relly make a lot of sense. His salary isn't exorbitant and his abilities to play 3B/OF allow you to carry an extra pitcher if needed. I think Hendry believed he could get the Peavy deal done at the time DeRo was traded, and it blew up in his face...

I buy that philosophy, it sure makes sense.

But wouldn't it have made MORE sense to ensure a deal was in place...i dunno,a 3 team trade instead of trading DeRo on the CHANCE you MAY get Peavy?

I'm Peeved

It would have, but Hendry could always fall back on the reasoning that trading DeRo was necessary to free up money to get Bradley.

If I had to guess, the sticking point of the trade was the Cubs' unwillingness to trade Vitters AND Marshall, along with 3 or 4 other guys. San Diego was asking for a ton for Peavy, and rightfully so given his past success. I do applaud Hendry for not bending over for Towers and giving up what little we have left in our farm system. When SD is 20 games out at the AS break and still looking to dump salary, maybe they'll come knocking...

Jake who?

That's what we'll say when Hendry trades Vitters, Marshall and the others for Roy Halladay, a much better pitcher than Jake Who.

In my dreams.

so Lou hasn't closed the competition on March 6th? what a surprise...

There were few people that liked the Derosa signing when it happened and Hendry turned out to be right on that one. I'm willing to give Miles a chance before thumpin' my nuts over Derosa getting traded after a career year.

i loved the dero signing, but miles is just a hired glove who hits singles...very theriot-like with a better glove and a few less walks.

he's gonna go up there and swing...put the ball in play.

Recent comments

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  • Sure, no marks and some inconsistencies in the witness's statements. But firing your gun into garage wall immediately after an argument and punching out your car window is still threatening and out of control behavior. There was certainly enough for MLB to think it warranted a 30-game suspension.

    Charlie 11 min 50 sec ago view
  • I'd prefer they be flexible with the closing situation depending on matchups. You're not really adding a lefty reliever if you use him strictly as a closer.

    Charlie 12 min 22 sec ago view
  • Stockpiling young talent isn't only for trading for someone like Chapman though. Even with an elite closer winning the World Series is basically a crap shoot so the key is to get to the playoffs as much as possible and not just mortgage everything on one year. Once you get there an elite bullpen certainly helps but the playoffs can be won by one hitter or starting pitcher getting hot (Murphy, Molina, Baumgardner) and a closer might not be able to stop that.

    johann 36 min 41 sec ago view
  • I'm also not crazy about press convictions. As the police report noted, there were no marks on the lady in question. There's a TMZ link (of course) to her police pictures, as well.

    I think the only way this trade goes real bad is if Cubbery intervenes and Chapman is suddenly bad for some reason.

    Old and Blue 40 min 2 sec ago view
  • I am right there with you closing in on 60.

    I don't care that much about "mortgaging" one player who is not only blocked by two guys, but is not ready to hit the majors for at least a couple years.

    There is no reason why this team, this year, can't have a real shot at something NONE of us have experienced.

    Further, I don't feel that even if they fall short that they have ruined their farm system.

    I have made my opinion clear here, with others, Warren was shit on the Cubs save one spot start.

    The E-Man 2 hours 9 min ago view
  • Trading for Warren, Warren sucking, getting Warren back for Chapman plus 3 prospects, sounds like Revenge of The Yankees on the former Boston executive. Old rivalries never die.

    I pray to the heavens above Chapman doesn't suck for some reason, or he'll be booed out of town faster than a Todd Hundley revival meeting.

    Old and Blue 2 hours 17 min ago view
  • I'm kind of nostalgic for the Schwarber-for-Miller rumors.

    Brick 2 hours 29 min ago view
  • This offseason, after some ridiculous playoff run and Chapman saving every game from here until the end of the postseason striking out 27/9innings, I welcome anyone to quote this thread and call me a dummy: I hate this trade, and my hate is 2 parts Chapman makes this team less likeable and 1 part that's a ridiculous overpay for 30 regular season innings and, at tops, 10 postseason innings. Already hoping they don't extend him.

    Charlie 2 hours 30 min ago view
  • btw...Thanks AZ Phil. I'm really enjoying your take on this trade.

    Cubster 2 hours 53 min ago view
  • I'm a bit disappointed on the Warren experience. Essentially they gave Castro away for crickets (OK, well they signed Zobrist with the Castro salary dump). Otherwise one might look at it as Chapman for Castro and our #1 minors prospect (Torres) + McKinney/Crawford. Seems pricey for a 2 month rental. We will see if this price tag is that steep in a relative way based on the remaining deadline deals for relievers.

    Cubster 2 hours 53 min ago view
  • Yep. One of the great things about this team (in addition to being really good at baseball) was the "likable" factor. Feels a bit different now. Who knows...maybe Chapman will be the king of the dance parties.

    billybucks 3 hours 2 min ago view
  • Here are some possible corresponding minor league moves we might see in the aftermath  of the Chapman trade: 

    SOUTH BEND to MYRTLE BEACH: OF Donnie Dewees and INF Bryant Flete  

    EUGENE to SOUTH BEND: OF Robert Garcia and INF Vimael Machin 

    There is really no reason to replace Billy McKinney at Tennessee because both Chris Coghlan and Jorge Soler are doing their rehab at Tennessee.  

    And there are plenty of pitchers at Iowa. No need to replace Warren at AAA. .  

    Arizona Phil 3 hours 22 min ago view
  • I am 70 years old. The Cubs last played in the World Series in 1945. I was born in 1946. I hate to lose a prospect like Torres, but when the opportunity is there to get that World Series ring, you go for it. This was the idea in stock piling all this young talent. I would like to see Reddick added now and the Cubbies should be done.

    Hagsag 3 hours 53 min ago view
  • I would expect Richard to accept an optional assignment because based on how he's played this season, there is a decent chance that he won't find work elsewhere. Rather stay and potentially get a ring. Same goes for Coghlan since he's struggled mightily this year.

    Edwards should not go down. He's pitched very well and Maddon is very impressed with him. I would expect Grimm to go down for Cahill so he can get back on track (he's pitched better in July, but he's not getting enough appearances).

    chitownmvp01 3 hours 56 min ago view
  • chitownmvp01: Indeed Clayton Richard would seem to be odd man out once Chapman reports, but Richard might accept a minor league assignment if he is promised a return to Chicago on 9/1 when MLB Active List rosters expand (Richard has minor league ioptions left).

    Arizona Phil 3 hours 59 min ago view
  • The only player in the deal that would cause me a second thought is Gleyber Torres.

    McKinney and Crawford are decent prospects but both are redundant/replaceable in the system and Warren was really only a middle-reliever or #6 starter, so to me it's really just Torres for Chapman.

    Arizona Phil 4 hours 20 min ago view