Gameday Open Thread/White Sox @ Cubs

The Cubs finish their Vegas tour with Aaron Heilman taking the mound. The game is on WGN television and WSCR radio and on MLB.com as well.

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Cubs Spring Training
Gameday Open Thread
Submitted by Rob G. on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 1:45pm
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Comments

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 2:06pm

Dave Roberts released...

shall we dump Gathright now?

Submitted by John Beasley
on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 2:11pm

Sounds like it's because his knee is bad. I can't imagine wanting to drop even 400K on him at this point. He's probably done.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 2:13pm

probably so...

can we still dump Gathright?

Submitted by Steve Christmas
on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 2:18pm

Fukudome has 4 walks in WBC opener. Looks like his plate discipline is going to lead him back to success.

Submitted by Bud
on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 2:34pm

Hey-hey Go Cubs Take down the Sux!

What a lose - How could I have thought I was comment 1 almost an hour late? Oh, well... I still say Go Cubs!

Submitted by The E-Man
on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 2:47pm

"What a lose - How could I have thought I was comment 1 almost an hour late?"

Is this some sort of code?

Submitted by Rob G.
on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 3:01pm

Parachat?

http://thecubreporter.com/TCR_chat

Submitted by Transmission
on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 3:02pm

I'm there.

Submitted by Ryno
on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 5:07pm

#33 Re: Afternoon Delight
Submitted by The Joe on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 2:32pm.
Uh oh. Juan Pierre is available.

__________________________

Speed never slumps.

Submitted by The Joe
on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 6:04pm

I coined a phrase for just such an occasion: "You can't steal first base".

Submitted by Ahone Ahtwo Ahthree
on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 6:07pm

Did the Dodgers hand out the 2 worst OF contracts of the past 10 years or what with their deals for Pierre and Andruw Jones? Holy smokes, I'm surprised Manny got signed!

Submitted by navigator
on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 7:45pm

Hold on now! The jury's still out on Fukudome.

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 7:54pm

and bradley

Submitted by Ahone Ahtwo Ahthree
on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 8:02pm

Both guys would have to suck REALLY bad to be in the same class as Jones! 2/$36 for his terrible season last year and then getting run out of town - it would be tough to top that!

Submitted by crunch
on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 6:00pm

every year it's more and more ST games earlier and earlier...

great 2 days of games on WGN...

also...THERE'S MONSTERS OUT THERE KILLING OUR PEOPLE!!!!

Submitted by Ahone Ahtwo Ahthree
on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 6:14pm

Murton (Colorado) and Pagan (NYM) are tearing it up so far in ST! Maybe we can get one of them back!

NOT!!

Submitted by navigator
on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 11:09pm

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=2...

"It just might be, when it's all said and done, we might have to have an extra infielder that can play first and third," said Piniella, following his team's 4-3 loss to the White Sox. "I'll tell you why.

"Assuming that we stay the way we are, all of a sudden, we need to pinch-hit and we've got Miles or Fontenot or Theriot sitting on the bench. Once I use them, I've got no more infielders. We're done. And these kids here are our nice options to send up late in the ballgame because they're athletic, they can hit, they can run. But, boy, once you make a move, we don't have any more infielders."

The (DeRosa) Cubs (DeRosa) are (DeRosa) fucking (DeRosa) geniuses.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 1:08am

hey everyone, see if we can help navigator spot the actual difference

 

2008
2009
INF Theriot INF Theriot
INF/OF DeRosa INF Miles
INF Fontenot INF Fontenot
INF/OF Ward INF/OF Hoffpauir
INF Cedeno OF Gathright

Submitted by Ahone Ahtwo Ahthree
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 9:03am

Ummmm... Miles can't play in the OF?

Seriously, if Lou absolutely has to carry a guy like Gathright for speed/PR/late inning defense, then the reality is that he is going to have to go with 14 position players and only 11 pitchers (rather than 12), because he does need someone capable to back up Aramis if he gets hurt. If he can find another guy like DeRosa who can play 3B/OF, which I think we would have signed by now (or not traded DeRosa), then he would be able to carry 12 pitchers.

FWIW, I don't understand the logic of trading Pie and keeping Gathright, since they would fill basically the same role and Pie is 3 years younger with more upside. I know he is out of options, so the only thing I can think is that Hendry wanted to trade him somewhere he thought Felix might be able to start or play regularly. At least Hendry traded most of these guys to AL teams, so they won't come back to bite us too much!

Submitted by CPH2133
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 9:05am

"At least Hendry traded most of these guys to AL teams, so they won't come back to bite us too much!"

I'm not super worried about Pie, Hill, or Ronnie biting anyone too much, especially the Cubs.

Submitted by kmokeefe
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 9:50am

not positive, but I think Rob was implying getting rid of Cedeno and signing Gathright has done more damage to our depth than the Derosa trade

Submitted by Rob G.
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 2:32pm

yes, that was what I was saying....the missing infielder is Cedeno, not DeRosa.

Submitted by VirginiaPhil
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 3:39pm

Gathright replaces Cedeno's speed on the bench.

The problem is Fukudome. He adds no value.

The solution is an infielder who slap-hits and runs like Gathright. Actually, that's a pretty desirable player and not something readily available for $800K.

Submitted by Wes
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 2:18am

Think I've finally got 2K9 to a playable state. It doesn't play great, but it plays good enough for me considering how nice the other stuff about the game is. I've had like 4 or 5 good games in a row without a whole bunch of stupid shit happening. Apparently there's a fix coming for the rest of the crap that I can't fix (AI never taking a strike, stupid glitch with the first baseman not standing on the base, etc).

Took some work, but at the point that I've got it, I'd recommend it to anybody else. Figured I'd say something about it since I pretty much drove the bus over it a couple days ago.

Lots of positive stuff about the game that nobody's talking about because of the problems.

Submitted by Ryno
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 9:08am

Wish I could see where you set your sliders. Mine is too easy. I haven't been in a big rush to make it harder, though... that's just how I roll.

Submitted by MikeC
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 10:03am

I would just save your money and get MLB The Show 2009. Best baseball game on the market.

Hey Rob you get any free copies of it this year? The economy is in the pooper, i need a "stimulus" game to keep me going.

Submitted by Ryno
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 10:15am

Oh, I misunderstood his posting. That's what I have, MLB 09 The Show.

Submitted by MikeC
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 10:24am

The Show is hard enough on the normal setting much less going to the other settings, lol.

Early reviews for 2k9 are saying that because of their exclusive 3rd party deal they have produced a shitty game that fixes none of their old problems.

2k Sports has never produced a worthwhile baseball game to date and with no competition they have no reason to anymore.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 2:33pm

Hey Rob you get any free copies of it this year? The economy is in the pooper, i need a "stimulus" game to keep me going.

They didn't contact me this year.

Submitted by Wes
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 6:27pm

I'd love to get The Show, but I'm an idiot and have a 360.

Submitted by John Beasley
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 8:02am

D Lee played third base for Korea last night.

http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/baseball/wbbc/boxs...

I hope we didn't trade him back for Hee Seop Choi.

Submitted by SJS
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 4:58pm

THAT D Lee is a monster...and I would throw this out there that I wouldn't mind the Cubs making him our ONLY DLee.

Submitted by kmokeefe
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 8:06am

Can anybody comment on how Heilman looked? I'm never able to actually watch or listen to the ST games.

Submitted by John Beasley
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 8:13am

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs...

Submitted by John Beasley
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 11:05am

Marshall and Heilman slot 4/5 in the rotation, Marmol to closer, Gregg in the 8th inning and Harden as the highest-paid "fireman" since DeNiro made "Backdraft." Or flip Marmol and Harden if Richie Rich needs a more-structured timetable for warming up.

Discuss?

Submitted by CPH2133
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 11:10am

Harden 5th (skipping the 5th starter whenever possible) Masrh/Heil 4th, Gregg closer, Marmolade 8th/whenever needed to get out a jam, DJ Jazzy Jeff as the 3rd guy out of the pen.

Z
Dump
Lillyhammer
Marsh/Heilman
Harden

CL: Gregg
SU: Marmol
Long: Marsh (not 4th starter)
LOOGY: Cotts
Then in order out of the pen:
Heil (if he's not 4th starter)
Samninja
Guadin
Gooz/Vizciano/Hart/Whoever else they keep in the pen

Submitted by John Beasley
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 11:17am

Ignoring the Marmol/Gregg debate for a moment, you essentially say Marshall and Heilman will be the 4th/5th anyways once Harden makes his twice-annual trip to the DL. So why not set it up that way to start with, and have a volatile but extremely talented pitcher in the 'pen who strikes out a ton of dude and can never make it past 6 innings as a starter anyways?

Submitted by CPH2133
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 11:24am

I just remember reading somewhere that Harden takes forever to warm up, which isn't ideal for being in the pen. Marsh/Heil if they're in the pen will be able to switch to the rotation within 10 days (perhaps an emergency Ryan O'Malley start) to allow them to stretch out for their upcoming start.

I just don't see the point in basically eliminating any chance Harden has at starting. If he's healthy he's one of the best. Hope for some health but have some backup if need be.

Submitted by John Beasley
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 11:31am

That's why I thought maybe in a defined role like closer - more of a structured time to warm up.

Yes, he has a brilliant ERA and K/9, but if he can almost never pitch into the 7th, can we really call him one of the best? If he constantly has to be skipped to stay healthy and still gets hurt all the time, is he really one of the best?

OK I'm done ragging. Just sayin', this hasn't really been discussed and at least at first glance seems to make some sense.

Submitted by CPH2133
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 11:47am

Eh, even if he only gives you 6 full innings at 3.00 ERA, I'm all for it.

Some guys are able to consistently go into the 7th, 8th because their arms are just built like that, while others arms just can't.

But bottom line is 6 innings at 3.0 ERA ball is better then someone giving 7 of 4.00 ERA.

Even if he were to succeed as a closer, I still say he's only marginally better than Gregg/Marmol (some may say not even better than Marmol) but he's significantly better than Heilman/Marshall

Submitted by big_lowitzki
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 12:20pm

So why not set it up that way to start with, and have a volatile but extremely talented pitcher in the 'pen who strikes out a ton of dude and can never make it past 6 innings as a starter anyways?

Well.. maybe because Harden is twice the pitcher that either Marshall or Heilman are. And further, I would be willing to bet that it will be the very rare start where Marshall or Heilman make it past six innings.

Submitted by John Beasley
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 1:54pm

Harden went into the 7th 4 times in 13 starts for the Cubs last year; Marshall once in seven starts. Given Marshall the chance to hold a rotation spot and not be a swingman, I would predict a better performance.

Harden is twice the pitcher, sure ... but if it's only for half the innings, then that negates much of his positive.

Submitted by navigator
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 11:56am

SunTimes via Rotoworld

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playe...

Cubs manager Lou Piniella said despite Mike Fontenot's impressive 2008, he hasn't settled on him as the everyday second baseman.

Fontenot's 2008 line: .305/.395/.514 in 243 at-bats. "They're good numbers, aren't they?" Piniella said. "I'm not saying we won't [make Fontenot the every-day second baseman]. At the same time, when we rest [Aramis] Ramirez, I need somebody that I can put over there. You don't really want to be moving your regulars around too much."

Sacrificing that kind of production at second base for more options at third base is a poor decision. Chances are, Piniella knows this, and Fontenot's playing time will reflect it. Mar. 6 - 10:05 am et
Source: Chicago Sun-Times

Wherefore art thou, Mark DeRo?

Submitted by The Joe
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 12:12pm

We got it the first time. You want DeRosa back. He'd gone. Deal with it.

Submitted by CPH2133
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 12:26pm

Not that I have a problem with moving DeRosa, I'd like him to be on the team still, but that isn't what I'm going to ramble about.

If the argument was that the Cubs needed to shed some cap room (I believe DeRo was on the books for about 6 M this season), I'm okay with that. But they paid Miles 2.2 M and for the extra 2.8 (especially for the cubs) isn't an issue. The comparison between the two isn't even close.

Now if they felt DeRo couldn't match those numbers from last year, and actually sold HIGH for once, okay. But considering the track record I don't see that being the case.

And if they didn't think they could sign him to an extension after this season at a reasonable amount, he would have almost certainly been a Type A FA (like Hudson was this season) and they would have gotten comparable talent with that (worst case scenario) sandwich pick then they did now. Being an Indians fan as well, the 3 they gave up weren't really in their long-tern big picture plans.

I could have the whole type A thing wrong, I could be talking out of my ass, i don't know. I just don't accept the "we needed to cut salary" argument. 6 M for a guy who can play 2B, 3B, RF and hit like he does, is a steal.

Submitted by crunch
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 12:36pm

it really does seem like the cubs were nickle/diming their way to 140m...which is kinda mind-blowing any team can nickle/dime their way to 140m.

people may not like that loot being used on gathright, bako, gaudy, miles, etc...but it is what it is.

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 12:45pm

Agreed,

Aaron Miles is a guy who should be looking for a ST invite right now. Instead the Cubs gave him a Neifi Perez type deal. Hopefully the mistake isn't compounded by Lou/Hendry shoving Miles and 400Ab's down our eyeballs over the next 2 years.

Keeping Ronny Cedeno would have been a better move than paying Miles for 2 years.

Submitted by CPH2133
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 12:50pm

"Keeping Ronny Cedeno would have been a better move than paying Miles for 2 years."

The better solution: Get rid of Ronny and don't sign Miles.

Submitted by Ryno
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 12:40pm

Uh, I also endorse the idea of keeping ball players that are a net positive to the team such as Derosa, rather than trading them and getting, um, Aaron Miles for example, as a replacement.

Submitted by Ahone Ahtwo Ahthree
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 1:02pm

To me, it feels like a lot of the early offseason Cubs moves (trading DeRosa to shed salary and get some young pitching, signing Miles, trading for G. Olson) were done to set up a possible Jake Peavy deal. I think once it became apparent that the Peavy trade wasn't going to happen (maybe SD wanted more in return after the Winter Meetings, or different players, whatever), then the Cubs started getting rid of guys they were planning on using to acquire Peavy (Olson, Cedeno, Pie, Hill, etc.) and went to plan B, which was to acquire Heilman and get more starter depth.

IMO, trading DeRosa so you could set things up to get Peavy makes a lot of sense. After the fact, with no Peavy and the prospect of Miles as our primary back-up IF, trading DeRo doesn't relly make a lot of sense. His salary isn't exorbitant and his abilities to play 3B/OF allow you to carry an extra pitcher if needed. I think Hendry believed he could get the Peavy deal done at the time DeRo was traded, and it blew up in his face...

Submitted by CPH2133
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 1:06pm

I buy that philosophy, it sure makes sense.

But wouldn't it have made MORE sense to ensure a deal was in place...i dunno,a 3 team trade instead of trading DeRo on the CHANCE you MAY get Peavy?

I'm Peeved

Submitted by Ahone Ahtwo Ahthree
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 1:19pm

It would have, but Hendry could always fall back on the reasoning that trading DeRo was necessary to free up money to get Bradley.

If I had to guess, the sticking point of the trade was the Cubs' unwillingness to trade Vitters AND Marshall, along with 3 or 4 other guys. San Diego was asking for a ton for Peavy, and rightfully so given his past success. I do applaud Hendry for not bending over for Towers and giving up what little we have left in our farm system. When SD is 20 games out at the AS break and still looking to dump salary, maybe they'll come knocking...

Submitted by John Beasley
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 1:52pm

Jake who?

That's what we'll say when Hendry trades Vitters, Marshall and the others for Roy Halladay, a much better pitcher than Jake Who.

In my dreams.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 2:33pm

so Lou hasn't closed the competition on March 6th? what a surprise...

Submitted by JD
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 2:47pm

There were few people that liked the Derosa signing when it happened and Hendry turned out to be right on that one. I'm willing to give Miles a chance before thumpin' my nuts over Derosa getting traded after a career year.

Submitted by crunch
on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 2:50pm

i loved the dero signing, but miles is just a hired glove who hits singles...very theriot-like with a better glove and a few less walks.

he's gonna go up there and swing...put the ball in play.

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