The All-Time Greatest Cubs Team

I believe I heard in the promo that on today's 30 Clubs in 30 Days show on MLB Network that covers the Chicago Cubs that they're going to announce their all-time greatest Cubs team. That seems pretty easy for the most part and I'm not sure of their criteria, but let's see if we can guess.

C - Gabby Hartnett

1B -Mark Grace

2B - Ryne Sandberg

SS - Ernie Banks

3B - Ron Santo

LF - Billy Williams

CF - Hack Wilson

RF - Sammy Sosa

SP - Mordecai Brown, Ferguson Jenkins, Charley Root, Hippo Vaughn, Bill Hutchison

RP - Lee Smith,  Bruce Sutter, Randy Myers

Bench/Honorable Mention: Joe Tinker (SS), Billy Herman (2B), Frank Chance(1B), Stan Hack (3B), Jody Davis (C), Bill Nicholson (OF), Kiki Cuyler (OF)

If they go with pre-1900 players, Cap Anson will probably knock Grace out at first base. Center field is really the only position up for grabs I think besides how many pitchers and how they choose their relievers. Andy Pafko might deserve the nod over Hack Wilson, otherwise I'm drawing a blank there.   My guess is they won't go with so many pitchers from the early 1900's, so I wouldn't be suprised if Greg Maddux or Rick Reuschel sneaks on there. I've got it Tivo'd for tonight, so if you watch it before then, drop what MLB Network comes up with in the comments.

Comments

Go ahead and slide Candy Maldonado right on into the outfield.

No Jose Cardinal? No Al Spangler?

No Neifi?

They actually put Neif! on the Rockies all time team.

yeah, you gotta be careful with those.

almost every team they've profiled with that "best lineup" list has some "whaaaaaaaat?" omissions and additions.

unless there is some criteria of "best years with" Maddux has to make it. He won a cy young with the club.

well so did Rick Sutcliffe, but I wouldn't put him anywhere near an all-time greatest Cubs team. I assume the criteria would be being somewhere on the Cubs leaderboard at their position, otherwise Rogers Hornsby, Pete Alexander,  and a good number of other HOFers that the Cubs grabbed for a year or two would be on there, although the bulk of their work was somewhere else.

Maddux is in the discussion, just for his Cubs years, but there are a few who put up more impressive numbers as Cubs.

i know Greg Maddux, I've seen Greg Maddux play. And Rick Sutcliffe is no Greg Maddux.

(although Sut was the first pitcher to appear in the post season for the Cubs twice in a very long time)

Point being I'm coupling the overall career with the greatness of the play as a Cub.

Aramis Ramirez will make it as backup 3Bman. Mark it down.

not a bad pick, a bit early in his career, but by the end of his Cubs career he probably deserves to be in the conversation.

there was only a 30 gap of nothing. so for 1/3rd of the cubs existence, Aramis didn't have a any competition.

Take that back! Are we forgetting...

Bill Madlock
Steve Ontiveros
Ken Reitz
Ryne Sandberg
Ron Cey
Manny Trillo
Keith Moreland
Vance Law
Luis Salazar
Gary Scott
Steve Buechele
Jose Hernandez
Kevin Orie
Gary Gaetti
Shane Andrews
Bill Mueller
Chris Stynes
Mark Bellhorn

That's full of all-stars, so take back that "30 years of nothing" nonsense

Now that would be harder to do!

well always tricky as you have to manage unwarranted playing time versus level of suckitude they brought...

I'm up for the challenge though...I'll see if I can put something together.

You'll have lots of suckiness to choose from, to be sure.

You could also base it on guys who were supposed to be superstars and didn't live up to the hype (like Corey Patterson, for example).

For the most part I think your starting 8 will hold up, unless they go with Anson over Grace.

If they go with honorable mentions or a bench, I would guess Randy Hundley, Heinie Zimmerman, Andre Dawson, Phil Cavaretta, Hank Sauer, all make it. Depending on how big this bench is they might go down to guys like Rick Monday, Don Kessinger, Glenn Beckertt, Shawon Dunston, etc.

I don't think there is anyway Hutchison makes the starting 5. There is a good chance that Maddux does make it. I also think Pete Alexander has enough Cubs time logged to usually make these all-time teams. The reserve pitching list could be big, and if it is, you could see a guy like Z or even Wood on there.

They generally want all generations to see someone that they know on the team, so there will be a couple modern reps, like Ramirez as was pointed out above.

Dunston? Seriously?

What a sad organization this has been...

Seems sad, but the shortstop position in Cubs history is not deep.

Banks - obviously
Tinkers - of Tickers-Evers-Chance fame, but overrated
Woody English - 1 AS game
Billy Jurges - 1 AS game
Don Kessinger - 6 AS games
Shawon Dunston - 2 AS games

That's about it...

didn't anyone watch it last night? One of the twins was sick so I couldn't...

I DVR'd it. The comments in a nutshell were:
Cubs have good starting pitching
Cubs have good bullpen
Cubs have good lineup - to criticize it is nitpicking
Cubs will win the Central

Interviews with Lou, DLee, Milton, Theriot, Reed

Also of note was the interviewers demanded for Reed Johnson to show his beard in profile. But, as was mentioned in some writer's blog, Gaudin has a hideous beard. It's like a chin-wide flap of head hair combed straight down. It flaps back and forth with every throw he makes. He really looks like a massive douche

finally watched it, Matt Vag is a retard...complaining that Dawson wasn't in RF over Sosa.

just to have it...
C - Hartnett
1B - Grace
2B - Sandberg
SS - Banks
3B - Santo
LF - Williams
CF - H. Wilson
RF - Sosa
SP - M. Brown
Manager - L. Durocher

Pitchers & Bench
CL - Lee Smith
SP - F. Jenkins
SP - G. Maddux
RP - B. Sutter
OF - A. Dawson
3B - A. Ramirez

good call Trans...

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  • If it was 2006 Hendry would be there w a Bible and a contract
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/77...

    jacos 9 sec ago view
  • he subscribes to my twitter, he's beyond TCR. #yolo #swag

    crunch 37 min 52 sec ago view
  • Whoops. Maddon must have been reading TCR (for his daily crunch) and got confused.

    CTSteve 40 min 19 sec ago view
  • kuhl is a righty, not a lefty.

    i think maddon might think kuhl is a lefty, too. i wonder what the reasoning is for baez leading off vs a rightie.

    crunch 1 hour 21 min ago view
  • "trout's one of the best, and at this point should probably win over donaldson (and should have more MVPs in the past, too), but the defensive aspect of valuing WAR still needs more tweaking...imo."

    that's from my 1st post. there's no suck involved in that. maybe with a few less posts about bullshit that point would have jumped out more.

    crunch 2 hours 8 min ago view
  • crunch - you do know that, taking defense out of the equation, Trout has led the AL in wRC+ each of those years, right?

    And, if you want to complain about position adjustment (which would be serious #crunchsplaining), he's been in the top 3 in the AL in WC (not park/league/position adjusted). And the only players ahead of him (if there were any players ahead of him) in any of those years have been DHs or 1B that play lousy defense.

    But sure - Trout sucks (or at least isn't as good as WAR says). Because it factors in defense and position.

    big_lowitzki 3 hours 13 min ago view
  • early tim tebow stuff rolling in...

    ran a 6.7 60yd (above average)...shagging flies in RF and showed off a rather impressive arm a few times, but average-at best on most of his throws...hit a few over the fence (both fields), fouled or weak contact a few...he's got a touch of power

    it'll be interesting to see who bites on this project, if anyone. he probably projected himself out of RF and into LF/1st because of his arm, but unless he can make that power work on a steady basis it'll be hard for him to play himself up anyone's system.

    crunch 3 hours 58 min ago view
  • LHP Clayton Richard (released by the Cubs earlier this month) is pitching very well as a starting pitcher for the San Diego Padres and could be a good candidate to get traded to a contender looking for a veteran SP before tomorrow night's post-season roster eligibility deadline.

    Because they released him, the Cubs are paying most of Richard's 2016 salary (the Cubs are on the hooks for $2M, minus the pro-rated portion of the MLB minimum salary that is paid by the Padres).

    Arizona Phil 5 hours 45 min ago view
  • it is honestly awesome (for real) that anyone would even have a strong opinion on AZL playoffs. i guess if you invest enough time watching it, you want to see a fair/just playoff structure.

    plus, the kids deserve it.

    crunch 5 hours 46 min ago view
  • The AZL team with the best record over the course of the full 2016 AZL season and the only AZL team to play .600 ball (the AZL Dodgers) did not qualify for the AZL playoffs, and the AZL East Division team with the best record over the course of the full season (the AZL Athletics) did not qualify for the AZL playoffs, either. 

    That's because of the ridiculous "split season" schedule most of the minor leagues now play, a stupid system that rewards mediocrity at the expense of the worthy. 

    Arizona Phil 5 hours 52 min ago view
  • Despite good movement on his fastball, I think location kept him from getting Ks. Left some pitches up and away that got hammered up and away. Then of course Travis Wood gave up the 2-run double in the 7th, but both runs counted against Arrieta.

    Charlie 6 hours 29 min ago view
  • "i'm gonna make you my main squeeze one day, bro. save the date."

    This level of discourse is #charming.

    #baseballtalk

    Tito 6 hours 29 min ago view
  • I would be having this discussion with anyone who (a) blathered on ad nauseum about the topic. (See, "Olt, Mike, not given an opportunity") or (b) responded directly to what I posted (which you did).

    Have a nice day.

    #baseballtalk

    Tito 6 hours 32 min ago view
  • what would you do without me? aside from having your posting content here cut by 75%+?

    i'm gonna make you my main squeeze one day, bro. save the date.

    crunch 6 hours 35 min ago view
  • In this instance, yes, I care more about the result of this big thing that isn't really a big thing.

    #crunchsplaining

    #willlistentojeffsullivanmorethanyou

    #blessyourheart

    #hitler

    #tcrmartyr

    #billyhamiltonwar

    #baseballtalk

    Tito 6 hours 36 min ago view
  • Two things:

    Fangraphs WAR #s include baserunning and Hamilton is elite at that. He leads in SBs with the 54 and and has an 87% rate which is really good. I'm sure once he gets on base he's able to take the extra base quite often too. Both those things will up his overall WAR value.

    The differences between BR and FG WAR is pretty well documented online and thus If there are discrepancies it's fairly easy to figure out why. It's fairly well accepted that BR WAR is fine as a snapshot but FG is better at predicting future value.

    johann 6 hours 40 min ago view