Soto Returns; Ramirez and Bradley Sit

This afternoon at Wrigley, when Rich Harden goes up against former teammate Jason Marquis, Geo Soto will make his first start since last Tuesday in Houston, and while Lou Piniella says Aramis Ramirez's back is getting better, he adds "one more day [of rest] won't do any harm."

As for Milton Bradley, Paul Sullivan reports:

Bradley is still projected back by the weekend,
though Piniella said Bradley told him he's feeling better, "though he
still feels (the groin strain) somewhat."

On the anniversary of Jackie Robinson's Major League debut 62 years ago, Bradley is also the subject of a long piece by Gordon Wittenmyer about the sad history of race-baiting by Cubs fans.

Wrigley seems like the last place an African-American player with
such a well-traveled reputation for confrontations [as Bradley] would choose to sign
a multiyear contract. In the last five seasons alone, Cubs outfielder
Jacque Jones and pitcher LaTroy Hawkins said they were the targets of
racist taunts and fan mail. Jones also said in 2006 that he became the
victim of racial slurs and threats on his cell phone when the number
got out.

Former Cubs manager Dusty Baker said that same season that he
received enough threatening, racist mail in Chicago that his wife and
young son no longer would attend games.

Visiting ballplayers are even easier targets for the more vicious slurs.

''I've heard a few things [from the bleachers],'' Milwaukee Brewers
outfielder Mike Cameron said. ''But I don't really get into it with
them unless a situation calls for it. I try to stay out of those

WIttenmyer also writes that the reputation of Wrigley Field crowds to go after African American players was one of the reasons that longtime Twin Torii Hunter, who Wittenmyer covered for years up in Minneapolis, had the Cubs on his no-trade list.

We baseball bloggers give the local beat guys a lot of crap--some deserved, some not--so I think it's only fair to point out when one of them authors a well-done piece on a provocative subject.

Kudos to Wittenmyer.


I think Chicago's history has more to do with that reputation than reality.

Yeah, I am sure those players and a manager are lying. None of it happened and they made it all up. Yeah that sounds right...

Wow, okay dildo, is that what I said? Did I say they were lying? Is it possible that the claims are blown out of proportion? Do these things happen in other venues? Excuse me for not blindly believing everything I read or hear.

I'm sorry, I don't understand your comment. Are you saying that Chicago's history of racism causes Cub fans to be seen as more racist than they are? To be seen as more racist than fans in other cities?

Struck out the side in the 1st on 13 pitches. Not too shabby...

Then, a 14-pitch strikeout to lead off the 2nd...

Of all the numberous times I've sat in Wrigley, not once have I heard anything to be determined as racist. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but in Jaque's case, he sucked and he got the hometown discount in MN. When he didn't get that blind love treatment in Chicago, Dusty pulled out the race card for him. When LaTroy came here and sucked, he got the same treatment. When Dusty showed what a horrible manager he was, he got the same treatment and pulled the race card.

Am I saying that none of them were called un-godly things? No, and some of the things they were called might have been racist, however the three people that the story named (Jones, Hawkins, and Hunter) were all Twins playing in a park that only had 5-10K fans a night, where you have nothing but homer fans anyway, and having an aloof antagonist in Dusty didn't help.

It's a small, intimate field in a huge city. Any time you have a huge city, you have a few jerks. The jerks in the world have huge footprints. That's my brilliant social commentary for today. Thanks.

Booing a white guy because he sucks is just fine, but booing a black guy because he sucks is racist.

I am really tired of just about any black person playing the race card to deflect valid criticisms, starting from the white house on down to the unemployed. I have been criticized by black people, and I never even considered calling it any sort of racism. To each his own, I guess, but I find it very tiresome.

booing? i don't think the issue at hand is booing...or even crude critcism. it's pretty cut/dry racism and threats. in the case of j.jones even fans have backed him up in the dugout incident.

no one's complaining about boo'ing...

It is much more than booing. AMAZING!! I can't believe some of you guys. Oblivious!


you are right. the racist jeers, and racist letters, that jacque jones received? not racist at all.


seriously, please point out where ANYONE said that booing = racism.

Former Cubs center fielder Corey Patterson and former reliever LaTroy Hawkins last year received similar abuse to what Baker is getting. Cubs right fielder Jacque Jones, who had a baseball thrown at him during a game, recently got a threatening early-morning phone call.

Hawkins, now with the Baltimore Orioles, had Major League Baseball security open much of his mail last season when he was with the Cubs. He was stunned by the hatred.

"I thought that stuff was over 30 years ago," says Hawkins, who grew up in nearby Gary, Ind. "I had never been exposed to it. ... I couldn't believe people were dropping the 'n-word' on me. People calling your mother a raccoon or you a porch monkey. You can only take so much abuse until you fight back.

"The same thing happening to me is happening to Jacque. To have people threatening to harm us over baseball games just doesn't make sense."

I want some proof. I don't believe any of it. I think it is more perception than reality. It is Dusty's fault. It never happened. It is all overblown. Blah Blah Blah

What a shame...

that's a load of crap...

it was michael barrett's fault.

Racist comments are never acceptable, but to think out of 40,000 people you're not going to get a few loudmouth idiots is ridiculous.

This article also tries to connect Jacque Jones having a baseball thrown at him with racism. Do you suppose the very white Josh Anderson of the Tigers assumed it was racism that caused a fan to throw a ball at him in Toronto last week? Sometimes fans do stupid shit, and the outfielders generally bear the brunt of it because they're the closest to the fans.

Never mind the fact that Derrek Lee has never said anything about Cubs fans being racist. Maybe the fans aren't racist at all, maybe they just like to heckle the players who suck at their job and then whine to the media.

Yeah, but when that heckling is racist or when outside of the playing field communications are racist that is where the rub is. Maybe Lee is more likable and hasn't gotten the brunt of it or he has performed good enough not to bring up that hatred. Maybe his daughters health issues have prevented those people from contacting Lee, who knows. But I think it is blatantly obvious it has happened and it is not something that should just be brushed aside.

And I don't think anyone thinks Cubs fans are racist, just that some are, which I am sure is the same for most teams.

I don't really understand what difference it makes. The hecklers are just yelling shit to get under the skin of the players. If Jacque and LaTroy got more upset about being called 'Wastes of chromosomes' than the 'n word', then the hecklers would call them wastes of chromosomes.

These exact same guys would yell and mail the exact same stuff to Jeff Blauser. If they thought Blauser got upset by being called the 'C word' or the 'H word' you could bet they'd be yelling it out.

They got more upset because nigger is worse. What decade did all of you defenders come from? No one is complaining that they're being heckled. They're complaining that they are being heckled a) because they're black or b) in a racist manner because they're disliked. It doesn't matter either way. Racism is not acceptable in any form...the reason for the racism is completely irrelevant.

"I called him nigger because he sucks, not because I hate black people." still fucking racist.

But, again, it's not just heckling. These guys are the recipients of racial slurs and hate mail/death treats. To say, well, some black players never received the same treatment, so there's not problem is ridiculous. For bigots it's 'as long as they serve me well, I'm ok with them'.

How do you know that no white or latino players ever got death threats?

You are being racist by saying that only the black players have the potential to be persecuted by racist fans, by the way.

What? Are you serious? I never said no one else got death threats. And, even if I did, that wouldn't be would be a statement of fact (provable as true or false).

I am specifically talking about black players, because that is the current issue. I'm not placing a value statement on race. Black players received racist mail and threats.

But clearly, you just want to win this argument in anyway possible, so I imagine none of this will matter to you.

It still get's back to my point. It's hard for me to elaborate on it because to me it's so simple and clear cut.

Someone walks down the street and says to you 'Hey fuckface, get out of my way'.

Someone else walks down the street and says to you 'Hey, N (or C or S or C whatever 'racist' people may want to apply) get out of my way'.

Do the two situations make you feel any differently about that person? To me I wouldn't care. The guy is an asshole, but he's not a friend or family member, so I could give two shits about what he says or thinks.

My suggestion is that you and Dusty and Jacque live their lives in the same manner. You'll be a lot happier. People didn't hate those guys because they were black. They hated them because got paid a lot of money and failed at their jobs. What difference does it make how they express that hatred?

1 situation happens once...maybe a few times...and the reasons are easily compartmentalized and/or dismissed.

in the other situation the person has been dealing with racism since a older person had to explain to the young aged person why it happened...and what it's based on...and how it's something they're going to experience throughout their lives.

racism isn't something that popped up in these guys lives when they signed a pro contract...

i really don't understand some of your arguments or connections.

As far as I know, "fuckface" doesn't have a historical connection to lynching, slavery, or segregation. That's part of the issue.

billy ripken totally agrees.

Completely different.

First of all, you'd care if you were black and someone called you the N word vs. fuckface. Or maybe you wouldn't.

Secondly, I've been in a bad mood and been bumped into or whatever on the street and called someone a dick. That makes me an insensitive jerk, among other things, but not a racist. If a black guy bumped into me, it wouldn't even cross my mind to utter a racial slur. Not sure how you don't get that difference.

Those people may have hated JJ, Dusty, et al, because of their poor performance, but why should hearing it expressed in racial terms be acceptable to them?

" Do you suppose the very white Josh Anderson of the Tigers assumed it was racism that caused a fan to throw a ball at him in Toronto last week?"

Maybe because he is an American?


I think that 14-pitch AB took Harden out of his groove...

Jason Marquis with a 2 run single........F

Chants of "Marquis Sucks" while he's batting. Fuck, Wrigley fans make me embarrassed to be a Cub fan sometimes.

[edit] I just now read the post. It's probably because he's a Jew.

Well played.

Wow 6 of the 7 outs have come on Ks thus far. Harden has thrown 56 pitches through 2 and 1/3.

How about some 2 pitch ground outs?

ugh Harden about at his pitch limit and it's still the 3rd inning...

Via Levine, the Cubs aren't happy about the article referenced above by Cubnut.

Amazing, 13 pitches in 1st inning. Now he is up to 92 after 3. That is 79 pitches in 2 innings. Looks like 1 more inning is all he has left.

Make that zero more. Lou lets Harden hit then replaces him in the next half inning?

Short bench.

is that a comment about the mentally disabled?

low blow The Joe, low blow.

I thought that after I typed, no, not exactly intentional. If Cedeno was still here, then it probably would have been.

Yeah, great way to celebrate #42's day. Dump on Cubs fans.

good fucking grief, the SunTimes can't go out of business fast enough

Patton looks good... Nice time to have him on, against the team that had him buried in the minors.

Holy cow, Hoff-Power sighting!!

Maybe He-Man will finally get some playing time.

Apropos of nothing, Sam Zell is really milking every last penny out of the Cubs before he sells the team.

At the home opener on Monday, I couldn't find the pitch velocity anywhere. Turns out, it's been replaced by a Sara Lee digital sign. Then after the Cubs scored a run, my ears were accosted by a ~120 decibel Luna jingle (which I just heard again while watching today's game on TV after HoffPOWER doubled).

Between the hideous Luna jingle and the B96 dance music playing instead of the organist, the charm of Wrigley Field is quickly fading.

Oh, and I know this has nothing to do with the Cubs organization, but the Horseshoe Casino rooftop that replaced the Budweiser roof looks really out of place.

Cotts walked his first guy he faced. Big Shocker... Lou is going to kill this guy.

....if he doesn't kill Angel Guzman first. Apparently there was alot of interest in Angel before the season when the Cubs figured to have a roster crunch. I wonder what we were being offered?

Great stuff, but if he can't get it over the plate soon, we will need to cut him loose and call up Kevin Hart or the Shark or Jeff Stevens or SOMEBODY

PS, remember that comeback last year vs. Colorado on May 30th? Down 9-1 in bottom of 6th. Just sayin....

Please somebody explain to me how the FUCK Fontenot got caught stealing.

They are down 3 runs and 0 out tying run at the plate.

I think he was trying to advance on a ball in the dirt, but you have to be absolutely CERTAIN you are going to make it before you can take off like that.

I'm sure he'll get an ass-chewing for that one. Took the wind right out of the sails...

ball bounced away from the catcher, not nearly as far as Godenot thought, out by plenty...

terrible idea and terrible baserunning...

"We baseball bloggers give the local beat guys a lot of crap--some deserved, some not--so I think it's only fair to point out when one of them authors a well-done piece on a provocative subject."

I would have to call this one 'medium-done' because apparently the author thinks being the target of fan mail is a bad thing.

In all of the race - baiting talk, not one shred of evidence has been produced to confirm all of the alleged reports of it happening (what about those racist notes, Dusty? How come LaTroy didn't save his nefarious cell phone message?) - no doubt it does happen from time to time, but for anyone to claim that Wrigley is worse than NYC is completely insane.

i think the FBI investigating them is enough proof...

i wouldn't mind reading more of the hank aaron letters, myself.

yup... you are right. they made it up.


Someone do that plagiarism thing...this article has been published before. Rehash of old hash. Now the ST has all the train riders taking their calm-downers. And Da Cubs.

NEVER heard a talk trash about Ernie...Never. Play ball boys. There will always be idiots in the stands.

And leave the heckling to presidential politics. Shame on the ST for running this on 42 Day.

Slow news day for Wittmeyer.

This team has a great history of players of color being respected and more so adored by its fans.

The three guys who had problems Hawkins (after he did the "I can do your job, you can't do mine) Jones (doubled off THREE times in one week on fly balls) and Dusty ( where I saw million of In Dusty We Trusty signs to can't stand the heat for not leading the best Cub team on paper to the playoffs).

For this they do not deserve to hear racial slurs, no one does. But quit making Wrigley Field sound like Little Rock in the 50's.

Cubs lose 5-2 to Colorado and most disturbingly Jason 'Fucking' Marquis. Cubs drop to 5-3 and with STL winning big as I write this, it looks like the Cubs will be down a full game in the division.

- Lee. He went 3 for 4 and appears to have broken out of his early season slump. He's got his batting average up over the Mendoza line, hopefully on its way to .300.
- Hoffpauir. A PH RBI double. Wonder if that will be good enough to get a start sometime soon. Can only imagine if Dusty had Hoff sit on the bench the first 8 games and not start.

- Fontenot. A bone headed and stupid base running error in 9th innings killed the rally. I hope Lou let him have it as even Little Leaguers know to not make an out in that kind of situation.

- Harden. As good as he was last time out, he was equally as bad. 92 pitches in 3 innings. He did get 8K's, but 4 BB's, 5 hits and 4 ER. Hopefully we can just chalk it up to early season inconsistency.

STL comes to town tomorrow in a early season 4-game set for first place. With the injuries, I will take everyone being healthy again and a split when I wake up Monday morning and be VERY happy. Go Cubs!!

Totally agree about Hoffpauir. What the fuck does this guy have to do to get a start? RJ's amazing catch on the Fielder would-be home run was great, but this whole defense at the expense of offense thing is pretty stupid, in my opinion.

With ARam and Bradley out, Lou needed another bat in the lineup. Aaron Miles is turning into Lou's version of Neifi. If Hoffpauir can't get a single start with Bradley, ARam, and Soto sitting out, he might as well not even bring a glove to the game.

On another note, after the first inning I was wondering if Harden was going to challenge Wood's 20K game. And I guess he might have if they set his pitch count at 300. Everything seemed to turn south after that bullshit call at first on the 1-4-3 groundball.

"Can only imagine if Dusty had Hoff sit on the bench the first 8 games and not start."

Never would have come up. Hoffpauir would have been starting at IOWA, while Dusty gave at-bats to Neifi or Macias. They're veterans, dude.

yeah, but there's a few dozen other things.

thank god the micro-manage-the-manager era is over...players getting blamed for stuff they did is neat and putting every manager move under the microscope was played out a loooooooooong time before it ended except for those who followed dusty closer than teenage girls follow American Idol.

case in point: april 10th.

we DIDN'T have to sit though 200 post threads micromanaging and reviewing every f'n move lou made. we looked at players who screwed up and *gasp* didn't blame an elderly fat man. it was neat. those that did say "well that was dumb" got their say without 20 posts underneath it calling for blood. it was neat.

i guess there is some upside to having a 140m team...haha.

Had Dusty been the manager on April 10th 2009, the middle infield would have consisted of Aaron Miles and Caesar Izturis, and it would have been Chad Fox in the 8th.

...and other such nonesense. dusty also kicks puppies and has sent 10,000 pitchers to early death.

Dusty does all that, and yet you hate Samardzija?

That smells like racism to me...

You're right, Miles would actually have been playing first.

Replacing Derek Lee with Neifi Perez in the lineup - and not just for one game - is so stupid, that acting like the manager who did it is just an average old school buffoon makes no sense.

speaking of making no sense...

speaking of having nothing to say but being compelled to respond anyway...

... Because Lou is white. If it had been Dusty, well...

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... Lou is Hispanic? Hmmm...

I think Lou needs to go.

Just one of those games..hurts to be beat by Marquis after we seem he look atrocious so many times. At least Harden is still healthy and will live to pitch another day.

I'm feeling greedy vs the Cards, I want 3 out of 4.

"I became a Cubs season ticket holder in 1985 and landed in the grandstands behind home plate. We sat near late newspaper columnist Mike Royko and porn star Seka, who at the time was hanging out with Cubs pitching coach Billy Connors"

Billy Connors got a porn star in his lifetime? WOW never would have guessed that one. I'm sure him and Zim and Jim Frey were all into that scene lol

Well now I'm just going to have to hit my head against the wall to knock myself out and try to get that picture out of it.

You know if there was some sort of orgy, Chuck Cottier had to be in on it too.

I just figured out Billy Connors porn name.....

Dick Pole.

I think you can take 2 things to the bank re the Wittenmyer article.

1) Some Cubs players and Dusty have been taunted and threatened using racist slurs. There's never any excuse for that. It reflects very poorly on Cubs fans, as well it should. We should speak out against it, as many here have. And btw, the targets do not need to "prove" they received the threats and slurs. For all his shortcomings as a player, I don't see Jacque Jones making this up.

2) Dusty should never have been made the target of those slurs, period. However, it's incorrect to conflate the racists and others who just criticized his job as manager. Many of those who criticized him are not racists.

< /soapbox>

Fine, I can't really disagree with you on #1. You're completely right.

Maybe I'm just being naive, but I just can't believe this doesn't go on in other venues, and I can't believe (and really really don't want to believe) this is anything more than drunk, bratty, frustrated kids looking for uncreative ways to vent their frustrations. Sure, being drunk doesn't mean you can act like a dickhead, but I think (and I hope) it's disingenuous to characterize the Wrigley crowd as "racist" in broad strokes.

"Sure, being drunk doesn't mean you can act like a dickhead, but I think (and I hope) it's disingenuous to characterize the Wrigley crowd as "racist" in broad strokes."

I would agree with this completely. My only point is where has anyone done such a thing (broadly characterizing Wrigley crowd as racist). I would agree that there are most likely a few ignorant/drunk assclowns who think calling an outfielder a N-r as being witty and will get a few laughs. Only thing is their drunk/ignorant friends are the only ones laughing everyone else it appalled and covering their child's ears.

I do have to agree with Ryno that it is IMPOSSIBLE that this doesn't go on in other ballparks. Just not possible that it's a Wrigley only problem. Perhaps it gets blown out of proportion more being a big market/high expectations team people are more heart broken when they lose? I'm grasping at the air here trying to justify why the story has come out of Wrigley but no where else, but I don't believe that it's never happened in any other ballpark.

Hey, maybe Michael Barrett is the head of his local KKK and was getting his Klan members to run Joke Jones out of town. I heard his next plan was to burn capital capital T's in Jones' front yard...T...for time to leave...See the correlation, no Barret, no more racial threats? And Fukudome was MUCH worse last year than Joke Jones, so I'm surprised we didn't hear any claims of him being called friend rice or Kung Pow Chicken...yea, thats the most original thing i could come up with.

Well, the "Horry Kow" shirts were pretty racist, and even after multiple news sources picked up that story and started talking about how racist they were I still saw tons of idiot frat guys walking around wearing them.

Here's my theory about why some douchebags might feel more comfortable hurling racial epithets in Wrigley than elsewhere - you don't really see a ton of black people at Wrigley. Let's face it, it's a mostly white crowd due to the neighborhood, economic factors, general interest in the team, etc. I guarantee those people would be far less willing to yell the N-word at the top of their lungs if there were a few black fans sitting right next to them.

Agree 100% with your second point. And some of those that are cowards and are afraid to say it in the public even with no blacks around then send off letters, text messages, emails, etc. to the players in anonymity. It happens and is disgusting, in my opinion.

How are the "Horry Kow" shirts racist? Because the white media tells you they are racist? I guess "A Christmas Story" is a racist movie and should be pulled from the air and never played nonstop at Christmas time because the restaurant workers at the end sing, "Fa ra ra ra ra ra ra ra ra"??? Ridiculous.

One of my best friends is Asian, and he thought it was hilarious. In fact, he is the only person I know that owns the "Horry Kow" shirt.

well that makes it okay if you have an asian spokesman to okay it for you.

the rest of you billions out there shut up already...geez...damn liberal media!

One of my best friends is Asian, and he thought it was hilarious. In fact, he is the only person I know that owns the "Horry Kow" shirt.

"I'm not racist... I have black friends."

You're absolutely right GO CUBBIES, there's nothing racist or offensive about the Horry Kow shirts, they're pretty funny -- and since half my family is some kind of asian, I think I know what I'm talking about.

I'll have you all know that I am extremely white. Damn German-Swiss Mennonite heritage! Where was I? Ah yes. All of my friends in Seattle are Asian. They're Thai, but it still counts. Wait, I do know a couple Japanese. And and Indo and two Vietnamese. And a Korean, now that I think about it. One of my Thai friends is half Japanese. She doesn't speak Japanese though. I also eat a lot of Pho and Sushi. Anyway, I think we can all agree that I'm an expert of Asians, then. I haven't asked them, but they all find those shirts offensive too. So, due to my expertise, we can establish that they are, in fact, racist.

NOTE: People are still using the "I know ---, so I'm an expert" line? Really?

NOTE: People are still using the "I know ---, so I'm an expert" line? Really?

Heh. I was thinking the same thing.

So lets look at my paraphrases of some of the arguments that people are using...
- "I know ---, so I'm an expert"
- "It might be racist, but its funny"
- "Other fans are racist, so why talk about Cub fan racism"
- "I haven't seen proof, so I don't believe it"
- "Not all black Cubs received such treatment, so it doesn't really exist"
- "Cubs fans are not racist, they are only racist towards players who 'suck at their job'"
- "I am really tired of just about any black person playing the race card to deflect valid criticisms" (not a paraphrase)
- "The hecklers are just yelling shit to get under the skin of the players. Who cares if it is racist shit?"
- "Its just race baiting, and without evidence racist cub fans don't exist"
- "They are 'drunk, bratty, frustrated kids,' so it is okay"


That pretty much sums it up. Amazing. Now I remember why I moved away from the Midwest. I've been feeling kind of nostalgic because people are more polite there, but, yeah, I'll take the trade off.

I've been to plenty of Cubs games in my lifetime at Wrigley, but have never seen the n-word flung around myself. Then again, I only sat in the bleachers one time. If I were sitting near a person who yelled out the n-word towards someone in the crowd or on the field, I think I would have to do everything in my power not to want to beat the living crap out of that person.

Drunkness is not an excuse; stupidity is not an excuse; poor on-field performance is not an excuse... if you want to be a racist and scream obscenities at a player, stay home with your ignorance and scream at the TV, so no one else has to listen to your idiocy.

People who scream things like that should be escorted from the ballpark immediately, just like someone who throws stuff or runs onto the field. To the racist douches out there, especially the ones coming to Wrigley to spit venom - use some common sense and learn self-control, because you are giving us all a bad name!!

Forgive my reference to I know an Asian so that makes it okay. I was giving an example and unfortunately it was taken that way, and of course you guys ran with it.

What I don't comprehend, I guess; is how in the hell "Horry Kow" is racist? I understand it could be insensitive to some Asians command of the English language, but how is it racist? Are northeners racist when they mock a southern person's dialect by saying, "y'all"? Or vice versa toward a Bostoner (or Bostonian, whatever in the hell the right term is), when a southerner says, "chowda"? Shit, if that's the case Jim Rome and a great portion of his callers are the most racist son of a bitches alive. Please someone explain to me how it is racist so I can comprehend, because obviously this is the meeting place for the greatest minds on earth.

In my opinion, it's racist because it is assuming that a Japanese (or any Asian for that matter) is incapable of speaking proper English solely because they are Japanese. Fukudome is Japanese...he must be incapable of verbally differentiating between 'l' and 'r'. No one had heard him speak incorrectly, but it is assumed that he cannot, solely because he is Japanese.

Secondly, it is not just racist, it is culturally insensitive to make fun of another race's inability to speak 'correctly'. We've gone through this discussion before, but I know many Asians for whom English is their second language and their struggles with the language is not something to be mocked, in my opinion.

Thank you Joe. I agree with what you are saying totally. And I agree 100% that it is insensitive, but I still fail to see why it is racist. It is not singling out someone's race and ridiculing them for it.

But I give.

My whole disagreement is with "racist" being used as a blanket term for anything anyone disagrees with. If someone other than my own race says something towards me derogatory because I suck at something then they must be a freaking racist. Is that the plan?

If someone other than my own race says something towards me derogatory because I suck at something then they must be a freaking racist. Is that the plan?

No... unless they say something derogatory based on your race.

Such as one's (alleged) inability to speak English.

I'm pretty sure you're taking most of those "paraphrases" out of context. To address the ones that were directed at things I wrote:

- "Not all black Cubs received such treatment, so it doesn't really exist"
- "Cubs fans are not racist, they are only racist towards players who 'suck at their job'"

1) I never said it "doesn't really exist" because not all black players receive such treatment. My point was that it was blown out of proportion by 3 notorious whiners (Hawkins, Jones, and Baker), along with the media. I refuse to believe it's worse in Chicago than any other place in the country.

2) Since they did suck at their jobs, they were heckled more than other players/coaches. Since you're bound to get a few racists among 40,000+ people, they were heckled by some racists. Again, if this is different than anywhere else in the country I'd be totally shocked.

Of course racism isn't ok and shouldn't be tolerated, but I think what most people are upset about is the fact that the media and Jones, Hawkins, and Baker are making it seem like Chicago is some hotbed of racism more so than anywhere else. Personally, I don't think that's true. If it is, that really sucks, but more likely you just get a few racist voices among 40,000 other people just like you would in any other city.

Okay, so we're all effing racists and assholes. No exceptions. Great. This is effing ridiculous.

And you know what, while we're on the subject, I think the whole equal rights thing is bullshit. It's bullshit because white people don't treat other white people all that well to begin with, so if I were black I would aim a little higher than "equal rights". Why set the bar so low? Same for gays... they all want to get married and have equal rights, well... I'm cool with that, I'm a social liberal and a big believer in the pursuit of happiness, but apparently these gay people haven't seen how most straight married people treat their spouses.

The takeaway message today, best I can tell is this:

Do not try to defend yourself when accused of racism, even if it's a broad, generalized accusation, because you're white and you probably suck.

And Dave... bud... no offense, I'm not trying to be a dickhead to you personally (presumably because you're white, and if you're white, you're cool with me), but I'm really fired up over this issue and these blanket accusations of racism: I think a lot of it (not all of it) is just B.S.

Okay, so we're all effing racists and assholes. No exceptions. Great. This is effing ridiculous.

Ummm... who said that?

No one, at all, is saying that all Cubs fans are racist.

I, personally, am not attempting to turn into personal attacks. I find it to be my moral obligation (whether others find it annoying or not) to speak out against what I perceive to be injustices.

I don't think anyone here is blanketly calling any group of people racists, be it Cub fans or TCR posters. No one is calling you racist, we merely disagree on issues related to race.

White people treat white people like shit because, well, most of us are assholes. It's when they treat people like shit solely because of their race that 'racism' is declared.

My point, which you weren't able to grasp, is that if they don't let it bother them, then it will stop.

The 'name the keystone combo' contest blantantly makes fun of two protected classes of people, but no one bitched about it.

Why? Because you're all racist, but you don't even realize it.

"My point, which you weren't able to grasp, is that if they don't let it bother them, then it will stop."

i have a history book you can borrow if you want.

Yes crunch, people are still making death threats to Henry Aaron, and calling him the 'n word'. I've got a futon here in reality you can borrow if you want.

I'm sure it's "Scott Eyre is broke and 3/44" but oh well

Yeah, clearly all Cub fans will now be characterized as voodoo devil people. Better than being racists, I guess.

Blech, I quit.

Well, I am half asian and while I think it's a racist shirt, I also thought it was a bit funny. Maybe I am only allowed to consider it half-funny?

you have free will to take it any way you can even believe it's a CIA conspiracy against you along with mind control chemicals in our water if you want.

it's no big deal to some and to others it's "what, this again? why?"

During Dave Parker's days in Pittsburgh, the fans in the outfield threw batteries at him while he was in RF - and the kind of verbal abuse that's routinely hurled at players in Boston and NYC is comparable to anything dished out here. Yes, of course it's reprehensible behavior and should not be condoned in any way, shape or form - but to single out the mongoloids at Wrigley for the specific charge is not only bad reporting, it's incredibly lazy. The faster the Sun - Times goes into the tar pits of history, the better.

Oh, yeah - Gordon would have been better served if he had followed up on the lunatic "fans" who harrased Bartman for years after that game. But that doesn't fit very well with his meme, I guess.

During Dave Parker's days in Pittsburgh, the fans in the outfield threw batteries at him while he was in RF - and the kind of verbal abuse that's routinely hurled at players in Boston and NYC is comparable to anything dished out here.

In other words, because there are racist fans elsewhere, the racist fans in Chicago should be ignored?

The writer is a beat writer in Chicago, why wouldn't he single out the Chicago fans?

This Horry Kow shirt exchange is just amazing.

Protected classes? White people of French descent from Louisiana?

"So lets look at my paraphrases of some of the arguments that people are using..."

Aside from your first point, please give examples of the others you outlined - I didn't see any, but perhaps I'm missing something - or you're making sh-t up.

"In other words, because there are racist fans elsewhere, the racist fans in Chicago should be ignored?"

Is that what I said, or are you putting words in my mouth again? The context is that this kind of crap is everywhere, not just in Wrigley - so why is this all of a sudden a big "news" story to put on the front page of the Sports Section? Are you suggesting that this is some kind of new revelation that no one's heard of before? Has everyone been living under a rock the past two decades? The writer is doing a rehash of the same tired themes we've heard many times at this point. So apparently there are a few racist pigs in the Wrigley Field bleachers - woah, stop the presses!

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  • I don't think his issue(s) will have anything to do with it. He hasn't hit since he's been back. Coghlan has the hot hand.

    Tito 18 min 21 sec ago view
  • I'm not a denier but definitely a skeptic on Strop and Grimm, who struggle with fastball control. Strop doesn't go near the ninth inning, and note how Grimm couldn't close the deal even with a 5-run lead. So Felix Pena comes in and gets the 3-pitch game-ending strikeout like it was nothing.

    And how about Almora missing that very catchable ball? That was unexpected after all the hype about his glove.

    When Trea Turner misses balls like that--which he does--I draw conclusions from it. It seems to be the one chink in his armor. But I'll give Almora another chance.

    VirginiaPhil 22 min 25 sec ago view
  • Assuming Soler is good to go, I think it comes down to 3 of the following 4: Coghlan, TLS, Sczcur, Almora. Of the 4, TLS seems to be the hardest to justify, particularly given his behavioral issues.

    billybucks 27 min 53 sec ago view
  • I'm wondering if both Coghlan and LaStella make it. With Javy being able to play all the infield spots and Joe maybe wanting late-inning D when Soler plays (assuming he plays), hence either Szczur or Almora, I think LaStella might be the odd guy out.

    Tito 30 min 52 sec ago view
  • Hendricks needs the win, anyway, plus a couple more.

    My hunch is that Hendricks wins the Cy Young . . . for Lester. That is, without Hendricks tipping the scale toward the Cubs, Scherzer tops Lester.

    VirginiaPhil 44 min 1 sec ago view
  • Old Cub fans remember when Ken Hubbs died at 22 in the crash of a small plane he was piloting in a storm in Utah in 1964. But Hubbs was not an elite power pitcher like Score and Fernandez. Score lived a long time after the accident but it was (effectively) career-ending.

    VirginiaPhil 47 min 37 sec ago view
  • HAGSAG: Since I've only seen them throw in one game and in one "live" BP session, all I can do is provide initial first impressions.

    Brailyn Marquez is listed at 6'4 but is probably more like 6'5 or 6'6. I would describe him as a younger version of Bryan Hudson, throwing a ton of ground balls but not getting a lot of swings & misses (yet). Because of his size he could eventually grow into more velocity, but right now he's mostly a pitch-to-contact guy. He generally throws strikes.

    Arizona Phil 53 min 6 sec ago view
  • Phil, do Marquez and Ocampo look like prospects?

    Hagsag 4 hours 37 min ago view
  • It helps when your defense has declared war against the H in WHIP.

    Still impressive.

    John Beasley 4 hours 39 min ago view
  • Lackey finishes with a 3.35 ERA. Currently good for 13th in the NL. Not bad for a guy signed to be a #3 starter in a 15-team league.

    He is also 6th in WHIP. Pretty amazing: Cubs have the #2, #3, #5 and #6 starters in WHIP.

    billybucks 11 hours 34 min ago view
  • Completely meaningless game, but Pena striking out Sean the Turd to with the bases loaded was very fun.

    Other than one bad game in SD, Pena has been very good. Even with that game, 9.0 IP, 13 K, 0.89 WHIP.

    billybucks 11 hours 38 min ago view
  • 101 wins...most since 1910 (104).

    neat. ...or sad. pick one. pick both. 'murica.

    crunch 11 hours 54 min ago view
  • Just looked up Grimm's stats -- after a great run, he gave up 2 runs vs. MIL then didn't pitch for 10 days. Don't remember why?

    billybucks 11 hours 56 min ago view
  • Sean Rodriguez's helmet looks like it's taking a dump

    jacos 12 hours 52 sec ago view
  • Grimm not doing himself any favors lately re: making the playoff squad. Seems to have lost the feel for his curveball.

    billybucks 12 hours 5 min ago view
  • j.grimm is literally worse than hitler.

    felix pena, your turn.

    crunch 12 hours 7 min ago view