Game 119 Thread / Cubs @ Braves (1 of 3)

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SP Jason Marquis SP Charlie Morton

7-7, 4.73, 67 K, 47 BB, 123.2 IP
3-5, 5.70, 32 K, 22 BB, 53.2 IP
       
LF Alfonso Soriano RF *Gregor Blanco
RF *Kosuke Fukudome SS Yunel Escobar
1B Derrek Lee 3B #Chipper Jones
3B Aramis Ramirez C #Brian McCann
CF *Jim Edmonds 1B *Casey Kotchmann
2B Mark DeRosa LF Omar Infante
C Geovany Soto CF *Mark Kotsay
SS  Ryan Theriot 2B *Kelly Johnson
P *Jason Marquis P Charlie Morton

 

UPDATED UPDATE: Marquis will start the first game in today's day/night doubleheader with our man Harden going in the nightcap. Otherwise the lineup remains unchanged from last evening.

UPDATE: Nevermind, the game has been called.

The Cubs try to stay North of the standings as they head South to play the Braves and Marlins on a six game road trip. Fresh off a 6-3 homestand, where they managed to lose a game and a half in the standings, the Cubs will look for their sixth straight road win tonight. 

The start goes to Rich Harden, who will look to rebound from his first non-amazing Cub start against the Astros last week. This will be his second start at Atlanta this season, whom he beat with seven innings of eight strikeout ball back in May. Do it again! Do it again!

And no, I have no idea why Kosuke Fukudome is batting second tonight. It's certainly not because of the .227/.306/.360 line he's put up since the All-Star break.

Comments

This game probably doesn't happen due to the rain.

double header tomorrow? yikes.

they might wait until Thursday, looks like it'll still be raining through tomorrow morning at least.

blah.

gameday says the game is postponed.
cubs.com doesn't say anything yet.

Cubs can afford a DH this week....better now then September like the last few years.

first game at noon second one at the time it was suppose to start tomorrow.

wonder what that'll do to the rotation, they do have an off-day on Monday, but they'll need somebody for Sunday's game. I suppose Sean Marshall.

With Marquis being a "sinker-ball" (too bad his pitches dont) pitcher starting on 3-days rest should be a good thing as sinker-ballers tend to pitch best on 3-days rest. If they do go outside the rotation for a starter do wonder if they'll go with Marshall since if they do they would be 1 man down in the pen for 3 days until Marshall recouped from the spot start, of course, they could always DL Ward before the game on Sunday and recall a RP and go with 13 pitchers until Marshall is ready to pitch in relief again. I think they will play it by ear with Marshall being penciled in unless they need a long guy between Thursday and Saturday then you likely see Marquis on 3-days rest or a minor leaguer like Atkins, Rusell, or Veal if it happens to be close to their turns on the farm.

(EDIT): After looking at the I-Cubs and Smokies wesites only 2 starters are posting sub 4 ERA's at those levels and they are Mitch Atkins and Randy Wells. Atkins next start is on Thursday V. NO and Wells threw tonight so his next start would be Sunday aganist the Zephyers. I am sure AZ Phil would know for sure, but I dont think Atkins is eligable for either Free agency or the Rule V draft while Wells is, so it would be more likely Wells will get the call-up, if they decide to go that route for the start, since he will be put on the 40-man by the November deadline anyway and that his turn falls in line with the opening we have for a spot start.

I don't know how Lieber's progressing these days, but it's more likely that Marshall, Lieber or Samardzija get that start before Atkins or Randy Wells does.

If the bullpen needs reinforcements you start Marshall and send him down and call up Wuertz or Ascanio or whichever reliever isn't sucking in Iowa right now.

Wells should absolutely be added to the 40 man at season's end. We can call him up to pitch. Send him back down the next day. Recall him before September 3rd. And he will still have 3 options as of spring training next year.

Did Pitchers warm up at all?

"pregame show" came on the air with the tarp already on the field and len/bob giving a real quick...hi, bye, 12pm central doubleheader tomorrow...blah blah blah

looks like any work they did was earlier in the day. the tarp on the field didn't have any grounds crew around it...it had been there a while.

Marquis starts game one, Harden game two tomorrow.

Bummer. Was looking forward to the WGN telecast. Hope tomorrow's is on WGN ... probably not.

Game one will be on the Superstation.

Disappointing for me out in LA since I could have seen today's game after work. No way I can watch a 10 am PT game.

or they just set up a pitching machine?

Rsox score 10 in the first, 2 hr's by Ortiz and 6 RBI's.

Looks like a crucial error as Feldman got charged with only 4 earned.

10-12 tex/bos, top 5th...

uuuugly.

middle 6...tex takes the lead

15-14

rsox up 19-16 going into the 9th...

-edit-

rsox win...19-17

37 hits, 13bb, 4 errors...

truely a game to forget.

I still hate that scoring standard. If a pitcher gets shelled and gives up 6 runs after an error, that means the pitcher sucked. If he didn't face those guys after the error, he would have faced them the next inning.

I've always felt that an error should wipe out the batter and all runners on base...but anyone following the error who gets on base, and comes around to score, should count as earned runs.

I used to think the same thing, but the longer a pitcher is out there, the more tired he gets. There's no way to really predict what would happen had the error not occured, but often times the pitcher may have been able to get out of those situations with less damage.

Kosuke: "Let's play 2!"

3 out of 6 days with no game sucks donkey balls. I'm watching fucking gymnastics for Christ's sake.

No. You wanna know what sucks donkey balls? Try driving from Birmingham, AL to Atlanta and finding out that the game was called after being in Atlanta for an hour.

That sucks donkey balls. Eddie Murphy's balls are very happy right now.

bleh.

almost every player on the 40-man is usually put on waivers after August 1st...

Would we want him anyway? Having a horrible year.

I could see the dellusion-wrapped Astros getting him to replace Lee, but Detroit would have to cough up some cash for that '09 salary.

eeks, sorry hawkeye.

Brewers win 7th straight. Another dominating pitching performance by their back line starters...with CC and Sheets on the mound the next two nights. Cubs need to keep on winning, or this will turn around in a hurry.

I'm just glad they're our bitches.

St. Louis Cardinals, 3rd place, 7.0 games back... with their current record they would easily lead any of the other NL divisions.

How do you like them apples?

n/t

Question from AZ Phil or anyone else who may know...

An Arizona newspaper is reporting that Micah Owings is one of the PTBNL in the Dunn deal.

Isn't this impossible?

I thought that a PTBNL must change leagues (or not be on the 40-man roster).

Any ideas on how this works if it is a waiver issue? From what I have heard, Owings was claimed on waivers, though by a team worse than the Reds.

UDPATE: Oh wait... he is in the minors, but he is also still on the 40 man roster.

Interesting trade:

- Owings can hit better than Dunn (.288 BA vs. .234 BA)

- Dunn can probably pitch better than Owings (5.93 ERA)

- Owings can hit better than Dunn (.288 BA vs. .234 BA)

Owings: .288/.351/.385 OPS+: 90
Dunn: .234/.375/.529 OPS+:132

But yea... Dunn may pitch better. And maybe Cinci is thinking about turning him into an OF, not that they don't have any.

I think that was a tongue-in-cheek comment, but okay.

Yup -- just having a laugh.

Owings had been sent to AAA. So he did change leagues. A PTBNL can be on the 40 man. He just has to change leagues.

AL - NL
AAA - NL or AL

Jimmy Edmonds hits another one. Hopefully the runs keep coming so Lou can rest some of the starters for game 2.

I like Jim Edmonds

Who doesn't. * I always did kind of liked him.

Ryno

* By "always" I mean I never liked him at all. In fact I thought he was kind of a douche, but if he wants to hit home runs for the Cubs and be awesome this year, I can be a Jim Edmonds fan.

Why didn't Soto's fly-out to right field score DeRosa? Was it a shallow fly?

Michael Barrett's best year

55R 16HR 65RBI

Geovany Soto's rookie year
so far...

47R 18HR 67RBI

I heard once there's a difference playing for a team that leagues the league in OBP or a team that is 2nd to last. Can anyone confirm?

home runs are not team dependent. And you can say all you want about team OBP, but really it times at bat with runners on that is more important. Just because Barrett played on a low obp team doesn't mean, necessarily, that he had less chances.

uh what?

anyway, you can look it up on BR.com if you wish.

Soto has come to bat with 328 men on base this season (at the 120 game mark). The ML average at this point is 275 for a hitter.

Barrett came up in 2004 with 314 men on base for the whole season. The ML average for the season was 318 for a hitter.

Soto had 56 of his RBI's in the first half where he spent the bulk of it hitting behind Lee, Ramirez and Fukudome. Their first-half OBP: .372, .386 and .383 respecitvely.

 

Well... it isn't too hard to figure out, is it? Lets take a look.

Barrett, 2004, RISP: 128 PAs
Soto, 2008, RISP: 141 PAs

So yea... it looks like Neal's point is right on in terms of RBI. Runs would also be very team dependent.

Cubs, 2004: .268/.328/.458 OPS+: 105
Cubs, 2008: .281/.357/.447 OPS+: 112

I was actually thinking of 2006 when Barrett drove in 37 of a possible 261 runners, for 14.2% He drove in 15.6% in 2004.
Soto this year has driven in 49 of 333 runners, for 14.7%

Where's Ron Santo today?

He's taking a rest. So he didn't go on the road trip.

What did Bobby do to get ejected this time?

he hit the ump's wife?

/I'll show myself out 

She just wouldn't listen.

What? Rob started it...

According to Yahoo, Cox was ejected for "arguing a delay in the game involving the lights".

Bobby: "I said BUD light, dammit!"

for "arguing a delay in the game involving the lights"

...sigh

Remember back when Jim Edmonds joined the Cubs? We were all so happy and welcomed him with open arms. And then we all went out for ice cream...

I know I really showed great judgment when I said of the move, and I quote, "UUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH."

That was an uuuuuuuuuugggghhhh of excitement and anticipation.

i remember quite clearly welcoming him the entire time.

That's because you wanted to frost his tips.

For the record I had a 'nothing to lose' attitude about Edmonds. Its probably been Hendry's 2nd biggest move after the Ramirez trade. Jury still out on the Harden trade, but that could definitely be right up there.

Karros and Grudzillanek trade
Lee trade
Dempster Signing
DeRosa Signing
Lilly Signing
Garciparra trade

Submitted by Chifan on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 11:13pm.

I am sure AZ Phil would know for sure, but I dont think Atkins is eligable for either Free agency or the Rule V draft while Wells is, so it would be more likely Wells will get the call-up, if they decide to go that route for the start, since he will be put on the 40-man by the November deadline anyway and that his turn falls in line with the opening we have for a spot start.

===================================

CHIFAN: Mitch Atkins is (first time) eligible for selection in the December 2008 Rule 5 Draft, and while he is a lock to get added to the 40-man roster, I suspect he won't be added until sometime around the November 20th deadline, when more roster slots are available after guys like Howry, Ward, Lieber, et al have filed for free-agency.

Submitted by Dr. aaron b on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 10:27am.

Wells should absolutely be added to the 40 man at season's end. We can call him up to pitch. Send him back down the next day. Recall him before September 3rd. And he will still have 3 options as of spring training next year.

========================================

DR AARON B: Randy Wells is a lock to be added to the 40-man roster post-2008, so it certainly would not be a problem to bring him up immediately if there is a need for his services.

As you said, even if he was recalled today and optioned back to Iowa tomorrow, he would not use up an option if he is recalled before he spends 20 days back at AAA.

It's probably 50-50 right now whether Wells will be added to the Cubs MLB active roster in September, but he will need to be added to the 40 no later than the day after the World Series because he is eligible to be a minor league FA post-2008.  

Submitted by big_lowitzki on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 8:24am.

Question from AZ Phil or anyone else who may know... An Arizona newspaper is reporting that Micah Owings is one of the PTBNL in the Dunn deal. Isn't this impossible? I thought that a PTBNL must change leagues (or not be on the 40-man roster).

Any ideas on how this works if it is a waiver issue? From what I have heard, Owings was claimed on waivers, though by a team worse than the Reds.

======================================

BIG LO: Any player on a minor league roster at the time a trade is made (including any player on a 40-man roster who is on optional assignment to the minors) is eligible to be a PTBNL. And any player who is on an MLB or minor league DL at the time a deal is announced has to be a PTBNL until he is eligible to be reactivated from the DL.

Any player on a minor league roster who is not on optional assignment off the 40-man roster (as was the case with Dallas Buck) does NOT have to clear waivers before he can change organizations, but because Micah Owings is on the Diamondbacks 40-man roster, he would have to clear waivers before he can be sent to the Reds.

So if Owings is indeed one of the players the D'backs are supposed to send to Cincinnati for Adam Dunn (and it appears that he is), and if Owings was in fact claimed by an N. L. club with a lower winning percentage than CIN, that just means the Reds will have to wait until the day after the conclusion of the regular season before they can acquire him from AZ. BTW, the other PTBNL in the Dunn deal could very well be another player on the D'backs 40-man roster on optional assignment to the minors who can't clear waivers (possibly catcher Wilkin Castillo).

In the meantime, it's kind of awkward because Owings remains at Tucson under control of the Diamondbacks. Of course it will REALLY be awkward if Owings suffers a significant elbow or shoulder injury between now and the end of the regular season. If that were to happen, it's possible that the Reds would ask for a replacement PTBNL, and that could get a bit complicated. .

AZ Phil,

Since Justin Upton is currently on the DL right now. He is a possibility as a PTBNL going to Cincy?

Submitted by Dr. aaron b on Thu, 08/14/2008 - 11:56am.

AZ Phil, Since Justin Upton is currently on the DL right now. He is a possibility as a PTBNL going to Cincy?

=========================

DR AARON B: Yes. 

A PTBNL cannot be on an MLB 25-man roster when a trade is made, and he cannot play for his "old" team again at the major league level after the deal is made, either.

So if Micah Owings is (as expected) a PTBNL in the Adam Dunn deal, he has to stay in the minors (on optional assignment) until he gets moved. He can't play for the Diamondbacks in September while the D'backs and Reds are waiting for the end of the regular season.  

And if Justin Upton is a PTBNL in the Dunn deal, he has to either remain on the AZ DL until he can clear waivers, or remain on the AZ DL through to the end of the season. I guess the D'backs could send him to the minors on optional assignment until he is officially transferred to CIN, but he can't play in the big leagues with his old team after he is reactivated from the DL and then still be eligible to be a PTBNL in a deal that was made while he was on the DL.  .

Interesting, but I would be totally shocked if Upton was a PTBNL.

Recent comments

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  • AZ Phil, has Nathan showed up in Mesa yet? Thanks.

    Hagsag 3 hours 31 min ago view
  • Eickhoff looks like a good young pitcher. Lets steal him!

    Hagsag 3 hours 32 min ago view
  • Manny Rondon faced 13 batters ... and got 10 to K. Not a bad day's work.

    Eric S 13 hours 13 min ago view
  • With several other Cubs hitters bailing out on curves today I think overall it wasn't being seen well. It for sure looked silly but a good breaking pitch coming at you and then breaking down isn't the easiest thing to see and has made many hitters look silly. Also Soler should have more walks this year but for quite a few called strikes that were actual balls and even the called strike he bailed on was borderline.

    johann 16 hours 11 min ago view
  • it's not like we're talking about a guy who's never had issues with pitch selection and seeing the ball over here. we're talking about a guy who has some rather legendary swing-and-misses at breaking stuff who's been exploited low. going forward it's worth paying attention to seeing if he can be exploited inside, too. he seriously bailed out of the box on a called strike. sure it was a good curve, but he obviously didn't see that well at all.

    crunch 16 hours 23 min ago view
  • It would seem like he is figuring it out now and it's really coming together. Really happy for him. Joe was really protecting him from the 3rd time through the order, but as you allude to, he is earning trust to go deeper.

    Wondering if has potential to become a #3 pitcher? His current stats certainly support it.

    The E-Man 16 hours 32 min ago view
  • That doesn't count b/c CRUNCH didn't see it on his 60" HDTV 5 times in replay.

    I have seen many players "bail out" when the ball looked like it was gonna hit them.

    Especially with the advent of the splitter and pitchers that can really get the ball to dance. Marmol, Sutter, Pedro Martinez, Curt Schilling, Derek Lowe, Smoltz, Arrietta...

    These guys have made the best bail out only for the ball to come over the plate and be called a strike.

    No shame in that. The same way players whiff hard enough to cause them to drill a hole in the ground from spinning.

    The E-Man 16 hours 37 min ago view
  • a 60" TV with slow-motion replay and multiple looks on that replay helps...a lot...

    it's one thing to shy away like he did the 2nd time, it's another to bail out of the box on a called strike. that happened in the 1st one he pulled away from. he misjudged that one by a foot or so...

    crunch 16 hours 56 min ago view
  • Good Hendricks sure is fun to watch. He was hitting all his corners today and the Phillies couldn't do anything with his changeup.

    johann 17 hours 32 min ago view
  • Bryant and I believe Zobrist both did that too.

    johann 17 hours 49 min ago view
  • Soler BB acumen and plate awareness is excellent. Not unusual for even the best players to react as if they were about to hit them, "even though they weren't that close" from your vantage point sitting on your deck, or wherever.

    The E-Man 17 hours 51 min ago view
  • soler vs inside breaking balls is scary.

    he's had 2 inside curve balls today where he reacted as if they were about to hit him even though they weren't that close...one he bailed out of the box on, it was a called strike.

    crunch 18 hours 9 min ago view
  • j.urias optioned back to AAA...guess we wont be seeing him in the LAD series.

    crunch 18 hours 16 min ago view
  • so is him actually getting 2 hits in a game (2 doubles!)...first time he's even been on base 2 times in a game since 9 games ago on his 3/4, 1bb day.

    im ready for him to at least look like a 2-slot hitter since he's gonna be slotted there no matter what he does.

    crunch 19 hours 12 min ago view
  • That Heyward move to avoid Bryant's ball hit at him was a thing of beauty too.

    johann 19 hours 30 min ago view
  • 9 pitches in and this game already rules.

    HR, double...bryant's turn (who came out to a Kris Kross song for some horrible, horrible reason).

    ...2 run inning...zoobrest hitting streak at 14.

    crunch 19 hours 34 min ago view