Baseball Prospectus Top 11 Cubs' Prospects

    ''5-Star Prospects''

  1. Josh Vitters
  2. Starlin Castro

    ''4-Star Prospects''
  3. Hak-Ju Lee
  4. Brett Jackson

    ''3-Star Prospects''
  5. Andrew Cashner
  6. Jay Jackson
  7. Chris Carpenter
  8. Chris Archer
  9. Kyler Burke
  10. Ryan Flaherty
  11. John Gaub

Kevin Goldstein puts Chris Huseby, Logan Watkins, Dae-Eun Rhee and Darwin Barney as 12-15. You can see past lists at Wiklified.

Most prospecters seemed to have soured a bit on Vitters, but Goldstein gives him a break for his disappointing season in Hi-A due to a hand injury, citing much better numbers against better pitchers in the AFL. Goldstein says his defense has improved and then gushes about his swing.

Vitters' swing is among the sweetest in the minors. It's smooth, powerful, gets into the hitting zone quickly, and stays there a long time. His plate coverage is off the charts, and he's as comfortable turning on an inside fastball as he is driving an outside breaking ball to the opposite field.

Goldstein also notes that Vitters plate coverage can also be a negative as he doesn't draw a lot of walks.

And although he puts Castro as a 5-star prospect, he has these words of warning.

While most believe that Castro will be an above-average big-league shortstop, he doesn't have the tools for true impact potential. His line-drive swing and contact-oriented approach offers little power or projection for much more, while he's also a free swinger who rarely walks. Several scouts noted below-average running times to first base, and his range is affected by it, possibly leading to a move to second base down the road.

I'm not going to reproduce all of BP's premium content, but here are some other highlights.

  • Folks within the organization see a Hak-Ju Lee at short, Castro at 2b infield with them batting 1-2 in the lineup.
  • Raves about Brett Jackson's 5-tools being good enough to be a early first round pick, but cautions about his swing-and-miss hitting.
  • Sees Cashner, Jackson, Carpenter all on the same path to either middle of the road starter or more dominant late-inning bullpen pieces.
  • Seems everyone sees Flaherty as a second basemen.
  • Gaub relies more on deception than stuff.

Otherwise, a big step forward for the organization and says they'll move way up in the overall rankings.

Comments

So, do we see Castro and Lee simultaneously at AA for a significant stretch next year?

And why is Lee a 4-star prospect and Castro a 5-star prospect if Lee is the true shortstop with elite speed and more plate discipline? Is it just that Lee hasn't played at as many levels? And if Castro doesn't have the potential of an impact player, why is he a 5-star prospect?

Good to hear that sort of gushing about Vitter's swing though. I think [hope] that his plate discipline will come around as he faces more challenging pitchers. Am I right in assuming he starts next season in Daytona with the possibility of a promotion to Tennessee if he performs? That would put his optimistic ETA at September 2011, right?

And how far are each of Jackson, Cashner, and Carpenter from contributing to the big league club? I guess those last two questions are mostly for AZ Phil.

he's no matt antonelli...

So, do we see Castro and Lee simultaneously at AA for a significant stretch next year?

Lee is going to start at Daytona or Peoria and it's possible that Castro may never see AA again.

I s it just that Lee hasn't played at as many levels?

That and Lee's defense is less proven.

Am I right in assuming he starts next season in Daytona with the possibility of a promotion to Tennessee if he performs? That would put his optimistic ETA at September 2011, right?

Optimistic is that he starts at Tennessee at finishes the year in Chicago. High A or AA will probably depend on how well ST goes for him.

Is it possible moving one to second base?

I heard a rumor that Castro might move to second base, eventually. Yuniesky Betancourt would be signed to play SS., and Lee would be traded to the Orioles for Jim Johnson. This is supposed to happen next offseason.

Occasionally, rumors of what will happen tomorrow have a 10% chance to be true. Rumors of what trades might be made a year from now are just plain silly.

I'm pretty sure this is a credible source, dude. I heard it from a guy that's dating this chick that's related to one of the scouts for the Indians. Apparently, this scout is really close friends with the wife of some guy that's seeing the sister of someone in Cubs front office. Soooo, yeah, it's pretty solid.

I'm already sick of Betancourt. Why does Hendry like such sucky players?

Nah, I'll corroborate that. Sounds legit.

not to speak for Goldstein, but I think he was just saying that don't expect those Hanley and Jeter projections you may have heard about Castro and while fundamentally strong, Lee has better defensive tools.

Unlike BA, don't think BP does their ratings strictly based on ceiling...

they do go loopy every once in a while and project a guy based on tools alone...like matt ant, a tools scout's wet dream in 07/08.

Don't hate on Matt. I plan on making him my 18th round selection in the TCR fantasy baseball draft.

I think that Castro is considered the better prospect because they think that Lee will have little to no power, and Castro will have a little.

As far as Vitters is concerned, I hope that they start him in Daytona, but I am afraid that if he has a decent spring, they will move him to Tennessee.

granted it was only a month, but he didn't have a lot of problems against AFL pitchers, starting him off in Double A probably won't hurt him.

Submitted by Charlie on Sun, 01/24/2010 - 5:25pm.
So, do we see Castro and Lee simultaneously at AA for a significant stretch next year?

And why is Lee a 4-star prospect and Castro a 5-star prospect if Lee is the true shortstop with elite speed and more plate discipline? Is it just that Lee hasn't played at as many levels? And if Castro doesn't have the potential of an impact player, why is he a 5-star prospect?

Good to hear that sort of gushing about Vitter's swing though. I think [hope] that his plate discipline will come around as he faces more challenging pitchers. Am I right in assuming he starts next season in Daytona with the possibility of a promotion to Tennessee if he performs? That would put his optimistic ETA at September 2011, right?

And how far are each of Jackson, Cashner, and Carpenter from contributing to the big league club? I guess those last two questions are mostly for AZ Phil.

===================================

CHARLIE: I would say Andrew Cashner is closest to being MLB-ready. He showed in the AFL that he can get the better hitting prospects out. The main issue with Cashner is whether he will be a rotation starter or a reliever (8th inning set-up man or closer) at the big league level, because if he is used as a reliever he could be ready right away. If he continues to be developed as a starter, he probably won't be ready until 2011.

Cashner was (arguably) the #1 closer in college baseball at TCU in 2008, and the Cubs used him as a closer at Daytona in the FSL playoffs in September 2008 (where he was "lights out"). But then the Cubs moved him to the starting rotation at Daytona (and later Tennessee) in 2009 to get him more innings and to force him to develop and use his "secondary" stuff, and he continued to be a starter in the AFL post-2009, although he still throws too many pitches per inning because he doesn't throw strikes consistently. His best pitches are a 98 MPH four-seam fastball (96 MPH when he starts) and a killer hard-slider, but as a starter he has added a change-up (still very much a "work-in-progress") in addition to his two "out" pitches (but again, he adds about 2 MPH to his fastball when he knows he is going to throw just one inning and "let's it all hang-out"). So it might be better to have him stick with his dynamite fastball/slider combo and use him exclusively as a late-inning reliever.

Jay Jackson more fits the profile of a rotation starter, with a full-array of plus pitches and the stamina to go deep into games. He is also a good hitter and an athletic defender (he played CF at Furman on days he wasn't pitching) which probably would be more of an advantage if he starts than if he is used out of the bullpen. Jackson could be ready to pitch as a rotation starter in MLB sometime in 2010. He is (in my opinion) the Cubs #1 starting pitcher prospect (while Cashner is the Cubs #1 closer prospect).

Chris Carpenter is probably about a half-season behind Jackson and Cashner, but he should be ready to contend for a spot in the Cubs starting rotation sometime in 2011, although he might end up in the bullpen when he reaches MLB.

The thing to remember about Cashner, Jackson, and Carpenter (and this is true for Starlin Castro, too) is that if any of them are brought up to the big leagues in 2010 and then get optioned back to the minors sometime later in the season, they will get four minor league options, because Cashner, Jackson, and Carpenter (and Castro) have completed only one "full season" through the 2009 season. So the Cubs shouldn't hesitate to bring Cashner, Jackson, Carpenter, and/or Castro up to the big leagues this season if one or more of them earns a ticket to The Show and the Cubs believe they are ready to help the big club.

fwiw, apparently Goldstein's system is to have a certain number of 5,4,3,2, star players, and Castro made it for that reason only.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php...

Would you add their ages, please? Prospects sometimes suffer because they haven't stopped growing. And then there's Sam Fuld...

Arbitrary ranking system, but if you just add Stars, the Cubs are tied for 4th of the teams released so far.

Team Total 11th
Rays 45 3
Rangers 40 3
A's 40 3
Cubs 39 3
Indians 39 3
Red Sox 39 3
Braves 39 2
Twins 39 2
Angels 38 3
Royals 37 2
Tigers 37 2
Yankees 36 3
Jays 36 2
Orioles 36 2
Mariners 35 3
White Sox 33 2
Dbacks 31 2

what's your second number denote?

I thought 5 star prospects...but no

Number of stars for the 11th rated prospect, I think.

Yep sorry. It's implied that in that case the 12th prospect, too could be a 3 star player, though I'd surely trade the Braves top 12 for ours, because of the presence of Heyward.

can make the Super Bowl there has to be hope for the Cubs.

Good to see he is courting that necessary fourth OF and veteran reliever.

He couldn't make any trades or signings last weekend anyway. It was SoxFest and the Cubs wouldn't dream of doing anything that draws media attention away from the Sox during their fan convention. It owuld be considered the height of PR rudeness.

Sorry if this is 3/44. But here's Hak-Ju Lee singing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0stmK3oCdg

nice find

in something that I probably only care about, the archives by writer has been fixed finally and should be adding an RSS feed for each writer soon, so you can skip my boring shit if you're just here for AZ Phil.

Rob,

When is the site search going to be available again?

~shrug~

I was testing something out on Friday and seemed to have killed it. I'll see what I can do.

is back and in the upper left thanks to us losing our best advertiser ~sigh~

couple of extra options now as well

Recent comments

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  • http://i.imgur.com/eeRC3g0.jpg

    get a room, you two. actually, bring it in for a group hug! yeah!

    The Crunch Reporter thanks you for your input. my feelies...however...weep for the future of this country.

  • @The E-man ♥ (for that post)

  • It is a "thing" with you. That's just it. The more here that point it out, the less you see it. WISCGRAD only one example. ROB G today....

    That's ok - addicts are the last to find out they have a "thing".

  • once again, ONCE AGAIN...this isn't even a "thing" i started...i just commented on someone else "starting it." it's a message board. even if i did "start it" people shouldn't give a shit unless they have something to bring to the table...even if it's just a joke.

    yes, i see a silver lining...i also see problems. i commented on both.

    how about more posts complaining about things i say. TCR could use more of that.

  • Phil, any update on Oscar de la Cruz? Is he actively rehabbing?

  • CRUNCH: It is obvious that you never see the silver lining, are uninterested in the huge preponderence of positives that typically outweigh your nitpick of the post by like a 10:1 margin. You cared not about Lester's 10 K's the last start compared to your contrarian view of his mortal mistake (which didn't matter) of not getting the ball out of his glove. Today you go on about his glove out (which he did last year) and same results. And, you never seem to mention first that he pitched really well - shutout a team with nearly every player batting over .300.

  • i like turtles.

  • "I had a pretty good career before he (Ross) came along..."

    it's like arguing with a moran...

  • *facepalm*

    nevermind. i've seen this film before, it sucked.

  • not sure it could be any better, but he gives up a lot on defense...so who knows? Soler's peripherals and inevitable warm weather makes me think he'll get it going soon. Sadly, the D will still suck.

    Baez at 3B with Bryant in OF is looking more and more like the lineup we'll see in Sept/Oct, but again, who knows? I'm not too overwhelmed by Baez's AB's, still looks to be swinging out his ass, but he seems to be making more contact. But a .385 BABIP will not hold...although he should be launching a few more...but damn that D.

  • Yes! Why clog 'em up?!

    Hopefully Hendricks will hit all his spots tomorrow.

    Or, Joe Ross has a really off night.

  • OMG, he had a tough inning of his own doing!!! If only he walked all those hitters on base instead, we could be spared your delusions of 250 IP and consecutive CY Young awards.

    There's a little going on here, that is being made into a lot by you.

    Didn't WISCGRAD already debunk all this last year, certainly ignored by you, but I believe he went through every instance a runner was on base against Lester and how little it ended up mattering. And unlike you, I do not care to repeat myself ad nauseum.

  • ...yet...it's a thing that would happen if there were less 4-5 out innings...like a certain 30-pitch inning he had a couple starts ago. let's not let "good enough" be a stopping point when it could be better. it's a negative aspect of his game no matter how much melt-in-your-mouth-not-your-hand sugar coating one can pour over it.

    this is a game of maximizing advantages and striving to prevent bad situations...no matter how much you come out on the other side smelling like roses.

  • he's 8th in innings pitched in baseball this year and has thrown over 200 innings in 7 of the last 8 seasons. He finished 21st in MLB in IP, 9th in the NL . Plus, going to your bullpen has a much different meaning in baseball the last few years anyway...

    You're looking for a one percentage increase in performance from a guy already outperforming the league by 25-30%. Might as well ask be asking Anthony Rizzo to steal more bases.

  • In honor of playing Dusty tomorrow he's just clogging the bases.