Game Preview: Cardinals (54-44) @ Cubs (45-53)

The last post is getting a little long in the tooth and a little bitchy, so let's move on to happier things like Andre Dawson's Hall of Fame induction today and the Cubs on the brink of a three game sweep over the Cardinals.

I don't have much to add actually on Dawson's speech today much like anything involving this site lately, but that smiling photo with the plaque classes up the joint.

As for the Cubs, they're third in the league in runs scored in July behind the Giants and Yankees. Who'd thunk? Three guys have OPS numbers north of 1.000 (Castro, Ramirez and Soto) with Byrd, Lee and Colvin around the .800 or above mark, leaving Soriano(.732 but with 5 HR's) and Theriot(.641) to bring up the rear.

Z threw two scoreless last night for Iowa with no walks, a hit and three K's and should join the team this week if he apologizes to his teammates for...giving a shit about losing? And probably for destroying the Gatorade cooler, I hear it was a clubhouse favorite.

Dempster got beat up a bit against the weakly 'Stros last time, but the offense bailed him out of a loss.

Lineup for tonight's game from Muskat's twitter feed:

rf colvin, ss castro, 1b lee, 3b ramy, cf byrd, lf sori, c soto, 2b riot, p demp

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Comments

First

(bitch bitch bitch)

Buncha dummies

(bitch bitch)

Dusty, Lou

(bitch)

Left-handed

(bitch)

...more rookies.

Whew, I feel better (don't you try and class the joint up Rob G.)
(And if this pisses you off too bad, just remove it, but you and I will know....)

Just when I thought there couldn't be a worst post than the Steve Christmas/robby posts.

*ducks*

HA HA!!

*throws the nearest (vase/pie/dodgeball) at the Old and Blue*

From MLBTR

"The player to be named later is a top prospect, a source tells Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic (via Twitter). They will choose the PTBNL from a short list, tweets Jon Heyman of SI, but it won't include 2009 first-round selection Mike Trout, according to Jeff Passan of Yahoo (via Twitter). A D'Backs official says that the PTBNL is "outstanding", tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports."

Must be the greatest PTBNL ever.... Brandon Wood??

I was thinking Tim Salmon.

Submitted by Tony S. on Sun, 07/25/2010 - 5:00pm.
From MLBTR

"The player to be named later is a top prospect, a source tells Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic (via Twitter). They will choose the PTBNL from a short list, tweets Jon Heyman of SI, but it won't include 2009 first-round selection Mike Trout, according to Jeff Passan of Yahoo (via Twitter). A D'Backs official says that the PTBNL is "outstanding", tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports."

Must be the greatest PTBNL ever.... Brandon Wood??

============================================

TONY: Can't be Brandon Wood, because a PTBNL can't be on an MLB Active List (25-man roster) at any time between when a trade is made and when the PTBNL is announced. A PTBNL can be on an MLB DL at the time the deal is made, however.

I hope this makes you laugh, good sir. I thought to myself when I typed that, "I know there are certain rules to being a PTBNL, but if I'm screwing it up hopefully Az Phil catches it and corrects me." I mostly just like Brandon Wood and remember his name because I got to see him in Salt Lake a few years back in the playoffs, and I know he was highly touted in their system for a time (although he didn't look that special even then to my very untrained eye).

Thank you Az Phil!!

PS--I find it interesting you mention the MLB DL thing. That, combined with this quote:

"The names involved in the deal on a prospect level, particularly Corbin, and the player to be named, give us extreme prospect depth, at a position, left-handed pitcher, that anybody would covet," Arizona interim GM Jerry Dipoto told Nick Piecoro of The Arizona Republic.

You don't think the DBacks got Kazmir, do you?? 6.92 ERA on the season, contracts look very similar, with the big exception that Kazmir's runs out a year earlier... Thoughts?

I'm sure I'm off my rocker, but it would make the deal make more sense from the DBacks' side...

-edit-

I know Kazmir isn't a prospect, he is however a LHP.

-edit again-

I see the Skaggs quotes now, I'm an idiot, please don't mind me

~facepalm

wtf riot? even he knows better than to make that throw.

I hate reading posts like this w/o tv. That bad? (I'm guessing what should have been a dp ball?)

he threw a ball to 1st on a double play attempt (no hard, ultimately) that he should have not even remotely attempted which flew over dlee's head...it was bad he missed (though no harm), but it was worse he even attempted the throw.

Grounder in the hole with guys on 1st and 2nd, Castro made a nice play to get to the ball and throw to Theriot for 1 out, Theriot turned to throw to first and damn near threw it into the stands, way over DLee's head. It bounced off the dugout fence and stayed in play. Luckily it was Ludwick running on 2nd so he didn't score, but it was an awful play by Theriot. The ESPN guys tonight ripped on him for not looking at the runner who was on 3rd by now to see if he was going home.

The play was just real slow to be able to get two with a perfect throw, and the runner that was heading towards 3rd should have rounded the bag and ran home, but it was Ludwick von Braindead. The play before that Theriot rushed in and tried to barehand the ball on a chopper over the pitcher's mound and couldn't field it. It would have been a hit, period, but again, Theriot is just off. Don't know why, but he's been awful on defense for the last week+.

Forget benching Theriot, they need to release him right now, in the middle of the inning. Bring up Darwin Barney or anyone not named Fontenot and play them at 2b. I don't know what happened to Theriot, if he was alone with a priest or the trade deadline is getting to him, but he just plain sucks right now.

what's so nice about barney? myself, i'd take theriot or fontenot before letting barney take hacks. barney gets a lot of respect here for a guy who struggles to hit a ball more than 150ft.

I don't expect Barney to be a major league starter. I'm just tired of watching Theriot butcher every ball that comes his way. And Fontenot just plain sucks. Anyone but those two idiots, please.

be nice to find some stability at 2nd...seems we got SS filled for another 4-5 years, minimum.

From Sullivan via MLBTR, Valentine on what I will heretofore refer to as simply, "the job":

"As far as the job coming open at the end of the season, anyone that considers himself a manager would think about how attractive this opportunity is, and every once in a while I consider myself a manager," Valentine said."

Um, don't.

I'm hearing it's Hank Conger. Not a terrible return, but Saunders is pure shit.

Sheet.

I would have given them Gorz and three prospects for Haren.

I know we are "rebuilding" or wtf, but Haren is a good pitcher, despite a few struggles this year. His k/bb is still excellent.

Tyler Skaggs is the ptbnl according to this guy.

http://twitter.com/nickpiecoro/status/1953149...

What an awful job by the Diamondbacks. Haren is MUCH more valuable that that. Unbelievable.

The Angels just got a steal of a deal. I would have loved for the Cubs to be on that as part of their rebuilding.

PARACHAT, GUISE? AM I DOIN IT RITE?

wtf is parachat?

I don't know, I was just in there and it was dark.... and quiet.....

I got skeered so I came back here.

yeah, it's slow times. a long/early losing streak along with some of the more active members being busy has taken it's toll on parachat.

holy crap...colvin, need some sliding lessons?

From Fox Sports Rosenthal & Morosi:

Sources said Sunday night — after the Haren trade — that the Angels haven’t halted their pursuit of a power bat.

Among the hitters they are monitoring: Garrett Jones of the Pirates and Derrek Lee of the Cubs.

Sources could not confirm if the Angels are involved in active talks for either Jones or Lee.

I'll send 'em DLee for Haren. And I'll throw in Silva. How's that?

In one way I think it's a good thing that Ricketts put the padlock on Hendry's spending. We would probably have signed Chone Figgans last off-season to play 2b.

Don't the Pirates or Royals have some decent young player heading into arbitration next year that we can steal and put at 2b?

Submitted by Paul Noce on Sun, 07/25/2010 - 9:59pm.
I'll send 'em DLee for Haren. And I'll throw in Silva. How's that?

In one way I think it's a good thing that Ricketts put the padlock on Hendry's spending. We would probably have signed Chone Figgans last off-season to play 2b.

==============================================

PAUL: The Cubs could probably trade Kosuke Fukudome for Chone Figgins right now.

While it would cost the Mariners more in the short term (Kosuke is making $5M more than Figgins in 2010--or about $2M more pro-rated at this point in the season--and will get $13.5M in 2011 while Figgins gets $9M), the M's would save money after the 2011 season by not having to keep Fukudome while the Cubs are paying Figgins $9M per year in 2012 and $8M in 2013 (with a 2014 $9M vesting option that would kick-in only if Figgins is playing well enough to be able to accrue 600 PA in 2013).

So the Cubs would save about $2M in payroll in 2010 and $4.5M more in 2011 (about $6.5M total) that could be applied to Figgins salary in 2012 ($9M) and 2013 ($8M), meaning they get Figgins for at least 3+ years for what they were going to have to pay Fukudome through 2011 anyway, plus another $5.5M in 2012 and $5M in 2013, which is not really that much unless Figgins turns out to be a total stiff.

And unlike Fukudome, Figgins would actually fill a need for the Cubs even if he isn't used as a starter, because he's a speedy switch-hitter who can play multiple positions.

That would be interesting to swap Fukudome for Figgans. I do like Figgans, I just think that the contract he received was crazy for his type of player and the age he is/was at the time. He's a speed guy who is now 32, and that contract runs until he's 35, plus an option year after that.

Figgans is/was a good player, excellent lead off man, but $8-9 million per year seems crazy, at least to me. It seemed crazy at the time last winter, too. Then again, Fukudome is making much more than that, and at least Figgans had a track record of producing in the majors. But Fukudome has only 1 year left on his contract, Figgans has 3 more. If Figgans doesn't turn things around, that's 3 long years with him. I think I'd rather endure 1 more year of Fukudome rather than 3 more of someone else who is likely on the downside of his career. If the contract length was the same I would take a gamble.

I kind of doubt that Theriot will be traded. I think he's blown a great opportunity in the last 10 days or so to showcase himself to other teams and end up with a contender. He's just not hitting consistently and his defense has been atrocious. If I'm Detroit or Philly, I keep looking. There's nothing he's done to impress me lately if I'm a GM watching him. At this point, I think Theriot's play has been so bad he's hurting his options to be considered a starting middle infielder for next season, even factoring in the Cubs will likely non-tender him. I wouldn't be surprised if Riot has to go to a third world team (Pitt, KC) to get significant playing time the first half of 2011, with the hope he can be traded to a contender.

On another note, I understand what Arizona thinks they're doing by swapping Haren for Saunders and 3 pitching prospects, but I don't really get taking Saunders in the deal. He couldn't have been forced on them by Anaheim, since he's making a little over $1 million the rest of this season and he's outpitched Scott Kazmir (not difficult these days). But next year Saunders is still arbitration eligible and could easily jump to $6 million or more. For what he gives a team, that seems like too much. Aside from his career year, his WAR has been 0.7-1.6 per year. $6 million seems a high for that.

Theriot's defense has been bad, but he has actually been hitting a bit better of late - .288 average for July. The last time his OPS was this high was June 13th. But he has not been getting on base, still has no power, and he hasn't run really at all this past month and not been successful when he has.

But still, I would think someone will look at a .285 hitter with 16 SB who can play SS and 2B and figure that he will bring "depth" to a contending team for the final two months. Especially since he is only owed about 800K for the remainder of the season. If he contributes to just one or two wins down the stretch, a team might think that is worth it - especially if the Cubs pay part of that salary or they only have to give up a low level prospect.

Well, that walk to molina paid off (eff carpenter)

-edit-
Woo hoo, go Byrd!! That walk to molina was genius Lou!! (stupid slow refresh Gameday)

this is a pretty fun game...

and thanks to the HOF stuff we don't have the usual ESPN idiot crew.

double bonus.

way to hustle sori

Bobby Valentine as Cubs manager?

TERRIBLE IDEA!!!!

If that happens, it will prove that life is a meaningless trail of sorrows ending in a hopeless void of despair.

Other than that, great idea.

deep

or potentially, "deep shit"

fart

I'm so glad this is catching on.

awesome game...

Get the fuck into Parachat, right now.

sorry, was busy looking at gay witchcraft websites.

dickinwiccan.com?

Again?

Still.

another schlitty game.

Az Phil who do you think the cubs will trade this week and to who?

thanks

Submitted by rokfish on Sun, 07/25/2010 - 10:37pm.
Az Phil who do you think the cubs will trade this week and to who?

thanks

======================================

ROKFISH: I would think Ted Lilly almost for sure will get traded (probably to DET), and Ryan Theriot and Xavier Nady could go there too, especially if the Cubs pay most or all of the remaining salaries. As I mentioned in another comment here at TCR last week, the Tigers have three decent LHP prospects (Andy Oliver, Charles Furbush, and/or Giovanni Soto) who could be part of the return for Lilly, and 2B Scott Sizemore and AAA closer RHRP Jay Sborz might be an OK return for Theriot.

If he isn't traded by the 7/31 non-waiver deadline, Nady would be a good candidate to get traded during the August Trade Waiver period (before the 8/31 deadline for post-season roster eligibility), especially if he starts hitting.

Phil
Will the Cubs put Soriano, Zambrano, Grabow, Fukudome, Ramirez? I realize the Cubs can pull them back if they were claimed, and I do not expect them to be claimed, but I'm wondering if the payroll situation is severe enough for the Ricketts to give up Soriano or Zambrano for nothing except payroll relief?

Submitted by Jumbo on Mon, 07/26/2010 - 4:05am.
Phil
Will the Cubs put Soriano, Zambrano, Grabow, Fukudome, Ramirez? I realize the Cubs can pull them back if they were claimed, and I do not expect them to be claimed, but I'm wondering if the payroll situation is severe enough for the Ricketts to give up Soriano or Zambrano for nothing except payroll relief?
=====================================

JUMBO: Most teams eventually put their entire roster on Trade Waivers in August. A club can place no more than seven players on waivers each day, and a club can claim no more than 50 players each week.

As for whether the Cubs would give up Soriano or Zambrano just for the waiver price, they almost certainly would, except both players have "no trade" rights that they would almost certainly exercise if claimed.

After a tough loss, I can usually cheer myself up by looking at a few box scores via milb.com.

A few samples tonight:

Hoffpauir reached 70 RBI Sunday, one ahead of teammate Snyder. Castillo has 50.

Justin Bour has 60 RBI for Peoria.

Chirinos hit a game-tying grand slam in the ninth today. (They lost in the bottom of the inning.)

Chris Archer hasn't yielded an earned run since his promotion to Tennessee, 28.1 innings ago.

The Cubs have a 20-year-old shortstop at Daytona with six home runs in July. (I'll let you guess.)

With 32! errors on the season, too.

Keep counting the errors of 19/20-year-old shortstops, Garsk, it's very soothing, and after a while you get drowsy and drift off to sleep.

Castro had 39 last year. Hak-Ju Lee's current number is 26. Jeter, as has been mentioned hereabouts, once notched 56.

And none of those you mention had a name like Junior Lake.

Submitted by Old and Blue on Mon, 07/26/2010 - 12:06pm.
And none of those you mention had a name like Junior Lake.

===============================

O&B: I remember back to 2008 when Starlin Castro and Junior Lake were a couple of 18-year old shortstops at Fitch Park, spending 7-1/2 months there, first in Minor League Camp in March, then Extended Spring Training April-May, then with the AZL Cubs June-August, and then at Instructs in September-October.

My comparison between the two was this (at the time):

Lake was faster, with a stronger arm, more range, and more power, and better patience at the plate. The main issue was if Lake would "outgrow" SS and have to be moved to 3B.

Castro was the better hitter of the two (but again, Lake had more power), the better fielder, the better baserunner (although Lake was faster), and he had the defensive versatility to play SS, 2B, and 3B equally well (in fact, SS was the weakest of the three positions for Castro, with 2B his best spot).

I thought Lake was more of a "high risk/high reward" type, while Castro would probably progress along at a normal rate and eventually develop into a decent utility infielder.

What separated the two was how Castro responded to instruction. Castro may be the most coachable Cubs prospect I have ever seen. He actually would listen to the coaches, and then implement what they taught. He even kept a diary listing every pitcher he faced and how they got him out. He followed the program. He cut his ManRam Gerry curls. He was so impressive at Instructs 2008 and then (especially) in Minor League Camp 2009 that Oneri Fleita decided to jump him all the way up to Daytona, skipping Boise and Peoria, challenging him to take his game to a higher level. And he did, moving up to AA Tennessee at mid-season 2009 after making the FSL All-Star team. Then he had a very strong showing in the Arizona Fall League, which earned him an NRI to Spring Training with the big club, before going on a tear in April at Tennessee and getting promoted to Chicago in May.

Meanwhile, Lake progressed, too, but just not as fast as Castro. Lake was not as coachable as Castro, and tended to make the same mistakes over and over again. Even so, Lake was moved up to Peoria in 2009 (skipping Boise) and had a so-so year there at age 19, struggling to make accurate throws to 1st base (he made 57 errors combined between SS and 2B) while striking out too much (138 strikeouts in 491 PA). Then he was promoted to Daytona this season, where it appears he may be turning the corner, hitting 299/383/581 with 7 HR, 8 doubles, and 2 triples in 35 games post FSL All Star Break, and 308/357/692 with four HR in his last ten games. He has cut down on his strikeouts, while taking more walks. He also has cut down on his errors from last season.

The thing that hurts Lake is that he has been conmpared to Castro throughout his career, but it also may help him because he must know that this time two years ago, he and Castro were at exactly the same time and place. And now (just two years later) Castro is in the big leagues, while Lake is in "Hi-A" ball.

One other thing about Junior Lake is his background. He would probably best be described as a "street kid." A Dominican Oliver Twist. I'm not even sure he ever went to school. So he is kind of raw in a lot of ways beyond just baseball, and it probably affects how he has responded (or failed to respond) to coaching (teaching).

But of the two (Castro and Lake), Lake still has the higher ceiling. (And to think both of them are only 20 years old!)...

Thanks for filling in the eyewitness details, Phil.

Lake was never off the team's radar, but he has definitely improved his status this month. They did give the shortstop job at Daytona to Lake this spring instead of LeMahieu, and they stuck with him when he was scuffling through the end of May, hitting around .210. Since then, he's about .300, with the six HRs this month.

I'm just intrigued by a very tall, rail-thin kid with surprising power who can play short. If he can play short, he can play third, where Vitters can stand some competition.

Submitted by VirginiaPhil on Mon, 07/26/2010 - 3:14pm.
Thanks for filling in the eyewitness details, Phil.

Lake was never off the team's radar, but he has definitely improved his status this month. They did give the shortstop job at Daytona to Lake this spring instead of LeMahieu, and they stuck with him when he was scuffling through the end of May, hitting around .210. Since then, he's about .300, with the six HRs this month.

I'm just intrigued by a very tall, rail-thin kid with surprising power who can play short. If he can play short, he can play third, where Vitters can stand some competition.

===========================================

VA PHIL: I think if Junior Lake makes it to the big leagues as an everyday player, it will probably be at 3B. But I think it's more-likely that he will get to the big leagues with his bat and will constantly be in search of a position, such that he will be moved around a bit in the infield and outfield, until he finds the position he can play where he will do the least amount of damage. Lake is sort of a Bill Hall type player, and I would expect power to be his primary calling card as he fills out.

vitters is already mlb-cub-ready. he's averaging 1 severe injury per year...what else does he need to prove he's ready for the cubs? ...a recommendation from chad fox?

He needs to cut down on the walks to be a true cub

With six weeks left in the minor league regular season, I doubt that Vitters will be returning to Tennessee. I suspect his next stop will be Mexicali in the Mexican Pacific League October-December, then an NRI to ST where he will get a longer look than he did this past March, then back to Tennessee on Opening Day 2011.

Vitters will be eligible for selection in the Rule 5 Draft for the first time post-2011, so the Cubs will need to add him to their 40-man roster no later than 11-20-2011.

So presuming Aramis Ramirez opts to return to the Cubs in 2011 (he has a player option) and doesn't spend any time on the DL, Vitters will probably make his MLB debut in September 2011 (unless he has a really bad 2011 season).

then back to Tennessee on Opening Day 2011.
---
If Vitters starts 2011 in AA, will he no longer be considered younger than his competition?

Fucking awesome, Phil!

As it turns ou (so far anyway), Chris Archer is the silver lining in the DeRosa trade cloud.

AZ PHIL affirmed the very thing when I asked for his opinion on which of the three youngsters - Archer, Gaub or Stevens - had MLB "staying power". I believe PHIL also mentioned he believed that Stevens could even be eventually dropped from the Cub's 40-man.

Went to the game last night. Absolutely beautiful weather and great atmosphere. The baseball was decent too.

The call on the force on Fukudome in the tenth was terrible, and in some tellings, could be seen as costing us the game. They still should have scored, however.

The way I feel about the bullpen is this: unless Marshall or Marmol is in the game, I don't have a lot of confidence. I understand Schlitter didn't want to walk the guy on a full count, but the pitch he threw must have been pretty fat. Lopez absolutely crushed it. Fukudome turned and took about two steps before he realized he had no chance.

Other impressions: I don' think Colvin is a base stealer. The fact that he stole a base doesn't change that. He looked very unsteady on the bases a few other times. Lou ran both him and (very surprisingly) Baker. I thought Soriano in the ninth kight have been a decent steal situation with two outs and Theriot up, but I guess he doesn't run any more.

Replays seemed to show that Fukudome was in fact out at second on that play.

He really looked safe at the moment and I bet at the game the whole crowd thought he was. But yup the replay showed him out by a hair.

And none of those you mention had a name like Junior Lake.
---
sounds like a throw in to a trade with the Minn.Twins, course they don't really need him since they already have 10,000 Lakes.

{ducks, on the pond}

A source told ESPN.com's Jayson Stark on Monday that it's "highly unlikely" Cubs first baseman Derrek Lee will waive his no-trade clause:

https://twitter.com/jaysonst/status/19594001024

Also, Vitters has a broken finger from a HBP:

https://twitter.com/JonathanMayoB3/status/195...

BRUCE MILES just posted a solid column. Aramis Ramirez is the NL Player of the Week, Cubs not interested in Chone Figgins, ..more...

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/4432

Submitted by navigator on Mon, 07/26/2010 - 2:19pm.
BRUCE MILES just posted a solid column. Aramis Ramirez is the NL Player of the Week, Cubs not interested in Chone Figgins, ..more

==========================================

While I agree with Bruce Miles that there is a chance that the Cubs might not trade Lilly (although I think it's 90% likely they will), I can't see them offering him arbitration post-2010 to get a couple of draft picks. Hendry just doesn't do that, especially if there is a chance the player will accept the arbitration offer and cost the Cubs $12M+ in 2011 payroll when they probably won't have enough available payroll to risk that.

dlee is an a-hole.

Huh? Because he might be exercising his earned right to block a trade?

Just curious... what if your employer told you that your organization would be better off if the sent you somewhere else, forcing you to either move your family, or move away from your family and friends. But you had the choice of whether or not you wanted to go.

Would you go?

it's a weird move to me. i wonder if he's planning on retiring.

school is out if that's even a concern. it's only 2-3 months. it'd be weird if an extension from the cubs was in the plans even with a price break.

School won't be out in late-August, September, and October.

Personally, I think that with Hendry's "old-school" loyalty M.O., he will allow DLEE to just finish his contract out w/the Cubs, unless there is a killer "mutually beneficial" deal to be had (unlikely).

Lilly has value, but, it has to be a big park, and the Cubs need to get more than a "bag of balls" for him as we like to say here.

Do you folks feel he would be a Type A FA in 2011, anyway?

Doesn't matter ... Hendry wouldn't offer Joe Mauer arbitration this winter, much less Lilly.

School won't be out in late-August, September, and October.
---
School's out forever?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUugQoxS8_o&fe...

This is professional sport.

Millionaire athletes who have two goals -win champsionships & make a crap load of money.

He's guaranteed one and not striving for the other after he crapped the bed this year.

This is not transfering a walmart greeter from memphis to portland.

Yup... its a professional sport, and its also a job, with real people and real families.

And Derrek Lee has earned his no-trade rights, and has every right to use that right.

And who said anything about Wal-Mart?

i'm just saying this not a regular job that you and I have.

he has his right to decline, but I think the chance to play for a contender is what every pkayer would want.

I would bat him 8th for st of season, based on how he's hiitind, i'm sure him abd his agent wouldn't mind that.

He's got a kid who has some pretty debilitating disease. I don't remember exactly what it is but a big deal was made of it a few years ago. Kid went blind or close to it or something? I'll let others fill in the gaps.

So I think he doesn't want the disruption. Whether or not he's earned it, it's part of his contract. Hendry gives out no trades like candy. I can't blame D Lee for just exercising the contract in the way he expects to be able to. Hendry created the situation this team is in. He took a gamble on the high priced players and lost. Three of those players, Lee, Ramirez, and Soriano, have played like shit this year.

Yes Hendry gives out no-trade contracts, but remember that the player's union bargained a long time ago for 10-5 rights. Lee can't be traded because he has been in the league 10 years and with the same team for 5 years.

I don't blame him if he doesn't want to move. I wouldn't either. But remember that this is not a permanent transfer of a job like you guys above are suggesting. This is basically a traveling salesmen who is gone for a week or more at a time for road trips anyway. Now management asks him to go on an 8 week road trip, in exchange for a bonus. Some salesmen would do it, some would not. Lee has to weigh if 8 weeks out of town is worth A) playing for a contender and possible winning a championship, and B) potentially increasing his value for the off season when he will be a free agent. It maybe that seeing his family just 2-3 times over the next 8 weeks is worth it, or it may be that he has earned millions of dollars already and doesn't think so. I'm sure it is a difficult family decision.

Now management asks him to go on an 8 week road trip, in exchange for a bonus.

What is the bonus that Lee gets? Playing on a winning team?

Lee has little leverage (unlike, say, Roy Oswalt) to get more money.

I think I made it clear in my post above that the bonus is in two parts - 1) yes, playing for a winning team, something most professional athletes enjoy, and 2) helping a contending club down the stretch will increase his value going into this free agent off season. Even if he gets hot down the stretch, if it's for a 4th place team, fewer will notice than if he did it for a contender.

fewer will notice

Fewer casual fans, maybe, but I have an hunch that professional general managers pay attention to all teams, not just the winning ones.

Now, had you said he'd get more at-bats with a team that makes it to the post-season, and thus have more chances to impress, maybe...

Yea... I think that the "fewer will notice" thing is pretty much bs.

I do think an argument could be made that Lee could possibly end up in a better lineup, and in turn making him look better. Though, with the way that the Cubs are hitting right now, that may not be true.

Further, there is a also a decent chance that Lee could end up in a platoon situation, or even a bench role, if he is traded, which would NOT be helpful heading into free agency.

If Derrek Lee goes to a contender and gets hot and helps win some big ball games he will get tons of a press as "a great pick up," "a clutch hitter," a "winning player," and a "great veteran presence down the stretch," etc. If you two think that is BS, then I think you have an inflated view of GMs. They sign players all the time based on the fact that they "bring playoff experience" and other stupid platitudes.

Doug Glanville on this topic:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?c...

"By getting traded to the Cubs in 2003, I won and that will go down in history, yet in the end I personally lost."

You are now changing your argument.

I don't disagree that some (silly) GMs would be impressed with some "clutch" hitting from Lee down the stretch. But that is very different than "fewer will notice" if he hits well for the Cubs down the stretch.

There are pros (playing for a winning team, possibly playing in a better lineup, performing well in the "clutch", etc) and cons (possibly playing for a worse lineup, performing poorly down the stretch in a "clutch" situations, taking a part-time/bench role, etc) if Lee changes teams heading into free agency. But none of them have to do with the visibility that would come with playing for a contending team vs. the Cubs.

No, I am not changing my argument at all, and you seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing for some reason. I maintain that if Lee does well for a team in a pennant race and potentially the playoffs, this will be noticed more than if he performed at the same level for a 4th place team. Disagree if you wish. I don't care.

If Derrek Lee goes to a contender and gets hot and helps win some big ball games

Them's a lot of ifs.

If he stays with the Cubs, gets hot and helps win some ball games, GMs will also notice. If there are any signing players based on listening to Harold Reynolds on Baseball Tonight, I don't think they'll stay GMs for long.

DLee has become Fred McGriff in Tampa.

Lee's daughter was diagnosed with LCA, an eye disease that eventually causes blindness. Turns out it was a misdiagnosis, but Lee is still active in raising money for LCA (and other charities also).

Or, if you believe someone else, he has abandoned this charity effort despite evidence to the contrary and without evidence to back up the claim.

This isn't an attack against you, but I don't understand the anger the always comes up when a player exercises his no trade rights.

I'm not sure if it's in Lee's contract or if it's 10-5...but anyway, there'd be no reason to have it in the contract if the player is always expected to waive. To me, it'd be like asking him to waive part of his salary. He negotiated it/earned it.

As a fan, yeah, I'd say 'sure, I'd rather play for a contender' but as a player, who knows what's going on their minds? Dunn sure as hell doesn't give a shit about winning. It's a job and they can do what they want...whatever they feel is in the best interests of their family, career and selves.

Random side note--DLee has both 10-5 rights and a no-trade clause in his contract (from when he signed the extension before he had the 10-5)

[Disclaimer: I am in no way as smart as Az Phil on these things. I was just curious so I looked it up the other day.]

Not a broken finger, after all.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2010/jul/26/vitt...

wonder if lee might feel differently about possible move to a contender had he not already won a ring w/, let's see, who? in what year?

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