Yankees Hire Away Rothschild and Cubs Add 4 to 40-Man

I can't find a good link for this, but it's all over the twitter-sphere that Cubs pitching coach Larry Rothschild has accepted a 3-year deal to join the Yankees in the same capacity. Allegedly the motivation, besides the Cubs sinking ship, is his family and the Yankees training in Tampa where he resides.

So the quest begins and the first name to come up will be Greg Maddux. I think almost all Cubs fans would want that and probably Cubs management. But from what I've read, Maddux is more interested in an upper management role eventually and isn't all to eager to take on the responsibility of a major league traveling schedule quite so soon. I'm sure some names will come up soon enough, but I'd love to see Maddux's old coach Leo Mazzone get the gig.

The other news is the Cubs added pitchers Chris Archer, Kyle Smit and Alberto Cabrera along with outfielder Brandon Guyer to their 40-man roster. And Hoff-power cleared waivers and will indeed be a Ham Fighter.

Return to Homepage

Comments

It's on Rotoworld here http://www.rotoworld.com/content/home_MLB.aspx, but they quote Morosi on Twitter.

*edit Said Cubs general manager Jim Hendry in a statement: "My baseball operations staff and Mike Quade have already begun identifying candidates to replace Larry and expect to have a major league pitching coach in place shortly after the Thanksgiving holiday weekend." (Bob Nigtengale, USA Today)

It's all over the interwebs now:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/daily...

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/ya...

I don't know about anyone else but I am surprised certainly did not see it coming - Yankees. I can care less that he is leaving just who will replace him. Too bad that we couldn't pry Dave Duncan before he re-upped with the Rebirds.

Archer and Guyer were no-brainers listed here and elsewhere, there was an mlb.com article on Smit recently (I believe), although I always trust AZ Phil more, and the article says Cabrera was originally an undrafted FA. He was #16 on AZ Phil's Top 15 on the sidebar.... Paging AZ Phil? What do the Cubs see in this guy (vice some others) that makes them want to protect him from the Rule 5?

And as for Pitching Coach, I'd be fine with Mazzone, although the Maddog obviously makes me drool as well. This may be another AZ Phil question, but how does that work, as in wasn't Rothschild under contract?

*edit I guess the Cubs gave him permission kinda thing?

"Rothschild had another year remaining on his contract, but was wooed to the Bronx. The terms of the contract were not disclosed.

"I'd like to thank Jim Hendry, the Ricketts family, Crane Kenney and the entire Cubs organization for their outstanding support and allowing me to pursue this opportunity with the Yankees," said Rothschild in a statement."

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/ya...

Submitted by Tony S. on Fri, 11/19/2010 - 4:18pm.
Archer and Guyer were no-brainers listed here and elsewhere, there was an mlb.com article on Smit recently (I believe), although I always trust AZ Phil more, and the article says Cabrera was originally an undrafted FA. He was #16 on AZ Phil's Top 15 on the sidebar.... Paging AZ Phil? What do the Cubs see in this guy (vice some others) that makes them want to protect him from the Rule 5?

=========================================================

TONY S: Alberto Cabrera is a definite MLB prospect, but he is a bit raw and is probably at least a year or two away from being ready to contend for a big league job. He will likely be a rotation starter at Tennessee in 2011, so he probably isn't even ready for AAA, much less MLB, which is why I had him "on the bubble" as far as whether he would get added to the 40.

Cabrera looked great in Minor League Camp last March and nearly made the AA Tennessee Opening Day roster, and was one of the last cuts. He throws a 92-94 MPH fastball, a sharp breaking ball, and a decent change-up. He pitched very well at Daytona (7-5 with a 3.28 ERA and 1.26 WHIP, with 92 hits allowed and 26/90 BB/K in 93.1 IP and 18 games 17 GS) before receiving a July promotion to Tennessee, where he struggled (0-4 with a 6.33 ERA and 1.90 WHIP).

The Cubs had planned to have Cabrera pitch in the Dominican Winter League (DWL) post-2010, but because he pitched more than 130 innings in the minors in 2010, he was not eligible to pitch in a Latin winter league. (The Cubs forgot about this rule, otherwise they would have shut him down in late August). BTW, this rule pertains only to Latin pitchers and Latin winter leagues. It did not prohibit Austin Bibens-Dirkx (for example) from pitching in Venezuela even though he threw more than 130 minor league innings in 2010.

As for Kyle Smit, he's long and lanky (rail-thin), and throws a 93-MPH fastball, a curve, and a splitter, but he has command issues. He had trouble throwing strikes in the AFL, too (8/8 BB/K in 13.1 IP with a 1.58 WHIP), but the Cubs added him to their 40-man roster anyway, possibly because he was acquired in the Lilly-Theriot trade and the Cubs didn't want to lose a player they just recently acquired in a high-profile trade in the Rule 5 Draft. He will probably compete for a spot in the Iowa bullpen in 2011, but just as easily could end up back at Tennessee. I don't see him as anything special.

My tangential issue dealing with Smit (beyond the fact that he's more of a middle relief type) is the fact that we have so many righty middle relief arm types on the 40 man. I'm fine that Marquez Smith didn't make it on ... but geesh, I might've preferred Smith to Smit in that, there's not that much positional depth on the 40 man.

I have to agree and disagree with you here. One one hand you say that there's too many RH relievers on the 40 man, but on the other hand you say it's OK to lose our #3 third basemen to the draft, a year before we lose our #1 first basemen to free agency.

I know a Joe Randa type career isn't very exciting, but I am relatively confident someone is going to take a chance that Smith is ready for a big league bench job coming off a .950 OPS half season in AAA followed by a solid winter league showing. No one was too upset about us losing McGehee at the time, as I recall, and it cost us any shot at the '09 playoffs.

Submitted by The Real Neal on Sat, 11/20/2010 - 6:50am.
I have to agree and disagree with you here. One one hand you say that there's too many RH relievers on the 40 man, but on the other hand you say it's OK to lose our #3 third basemen to the draft, a year before we lose our #1 first basemen to free agency.

I know a Joe Randa type career isn't very exciting, but I am relatively confident someone is going to take a chance that Smith is ready for a big league bench job coming off a .950 OPS half season in AAA followed by a solid winter league showing. No one was too upset about us losing McGehee at the time, as I recall, and it cost us any shot at the '09 playoffs.

====================================================

REAL NEAL: I don't think that Marquez Smith will be an MLB bench player. He really doesn't have the athleticism or versatility clubs look for in an MLB back-up guy. If he isn't an everyday 3B in the big leagues, then he'll be one at AAA.

But I could see a team like maybe Baltimore, Cleveland, or Kansas City drafting Smith and giving him a shot in Spring Training to be their everyday 3B. Then either he rises to the occasion and grabs the opportunity with both hands like Casey McGehee did with the Brewers in 2009, or he flops and the Cubs get him back.

Yeah, I should have probably said "platoon player". It's not all that hard for an AL team to carry a guy and give him 300 PA's, even if he can't pinch run, or isn't exceptionally good at defense.

KC as a stop gap for Moustakas is probably a pretty good guess - but maybe Hendry will make a trade to whittle down the 40 man by then and make a spot for Smith.

I'm not as confident as you are that he is ready for a platoon/bench role, and as such, I have my doubts that Marquez will stick on an active roster if any team drafts him in Rule 5. It's not impossible, but it's hard to see a team carrying him as a big bat type off the bench, and while he might be able to learn other positions, it's rare for a team to carry someone as a utility player that hasn't effectively shown some ability in the past to handle other positions.

Is there a chance that he takes the ball and runs with it? Sure. He's got a much better track record offensively than Casey McGehee did, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. If he does, more power to him, but as of now, if we lose him and Scott Moore becomes our triple A third baseman ... I'm okay with that. Moore's only about 1.3 years older than him, is more versatile, has shown more raw power in the past.

I guess I'm not buying into the Marquez Smith is a starting caliber third basemen talk just yet. I fully expect him to be in AAA Iowa next year, and hopefully, dabbling a bit in the OF.

AZ Phil,

Rule 5 question:

Can anyone eligible for the Rule 5 be taken in any round of the Rule 5?

This has always been a concern of mine. If yes, then hypothetically anyone could wait until the later rounds to steal a decent player and never have to put them on their 40-man roster all year long sense the minor league rounds do not require to do so.

Guys like ABD, Marwin Gonzalez, Muschko, Samson, and Suarez could be swiped away and we get nothing in return?

Please enlighten us!

Thanks

Submitted by Childersb3 on Fri, 11/19/2010 - 4:30pm.
AZ Phil,

Rule 5 question:

Can anyone eligible for the Rule 5 be taken in any round of the Rule 5?

This has always been a concern of mine. If yes, then hypothetically anyone could wait until the later rounds to steal a decent player and never have to put them on their 40-man roster all year long sense the minor league rounds do not require to do so.

Guys like ABD, Marwin Gonzalez, Muschko, Samson, and Suarez could be swiped away and we get nothing in return?

Please enlighten us!

Thanks

=======================================================

CHILDERS: Players on AAA reserve lists are the only ones eligible for selection in the Major League Phase of the Rule 5 Draft, and the Major League Phase is the one where players selected must be immediately added to the MLB 40-man roster, cannot be sent to the minors until completing one full season on the 25-man roster and/or 15-day or 60-day DL with at least 90 days on the Active List, must be first placed on Outright Waivers and if not claimed must be offered back to the original club if the drafting club wants to send the player to the minors, etc.

The AAA Reserve List limit is 38, and at present there are 46 Cubs minor leaguers eligible for selection in next month's Rule 5 Draft. So at least eight (or probably more if the Cubs plan to sign additional minor league free-agents prior to the Rule 5 Draft) have to be placed on AA or Class "A" reserve lists, making them eligible for selection in the AAA Phase (for $12,000) or AA Phase (for $4,000), where the drafting clubs do not have to offer the player back to the organization from which the player was drafted.

Because the minor league reserve lists also need to be filed by 11/20, the Cubs will have to decide which eight (or more) players eligible for selection in the Rule 5 Draft to not place on the Iowa roster (AAA Reserve List).

Usually clubs will place a player on the AA and Class "A" winter rosters pre-Rule 5 Draft when the player is someone the club was planning to release sometime during the off-season anyway, or guys with off-the-field-issues, or players with limited ceilings ("A"-ball 4th outfielders, utility infielders, back-up catchers, and/or middle-relievers, etc.). The idea is to see if anybody wants the player and maybe pick up a few thousand bucks if they do (sort of like a "Buy It Now" on ebay), and if there aren't any takers, the player will probably get released prior to Opening Day, either during the off-season or at Minor League Camp.

AZ Phil -
Can you tell us who the 46 players are who are eligible for the AAA reserve list? I'd like to figure out who might be selected in the minor league phase of the draft - thanks!!!

Submitted by Wrigley Rat on Fri, 11/19/2010 - 8:29pm.
AZ Phil -
Can you tell us who the 46 players are who are eligible for the AAA reserve list? I'd like to figure out who might be selected in the minor league phase of the draft - thanks!!!

==================================================

Wrigley Rat: All 46 players are eligible to be placed on the AAA Reserve List (Iowa roster). It's just a question of which ones the Cubs want to be available in the Major League Phase, AAA Phase, and AA Phase, and how many of the 38 AAA slots will be filled.

It's likely that the Cubs will only fill about 33 or 34 of the 38 AAA slots, keeping the other four or five slots available for minor league free-agents theY might sign over the next three weeks. Free-agents signed to minor league contracts prior to the Rule 5 Draft are eligible for selection, and if you wonder why a team would select a player in the Rule 5 Draft who was avaiLable as a free-agent, it does occasionally happen, and it happens because sometimes a team never gets a chance to sign the guy they want, either because another club beat them to the punch, or because the player wanted to play AAA ball with a particular organization or in a certain city.

As for exactly which of the 46 Cubs minor leaguers who are presently eligible for selection in the Rule 5 Draft will be placed where, the minor league reserve lists are not released to the media or to the public, but if I had to guess I would think the 12 or 13 Cubs minor leaguers on the list of Rule 5 eligibles most-likely to NOT be on the Iowa roster are:

Adrian Aviles, LHP (ex-OF)
Marco Carrillo, RHP
Manolin DeLeon, RHP
Jose Guevara, C
Chris Huseby, OF (ex-RHP)
Dylan Johnston, RHP (ex-OF)
Jordan Latham, RHP
Antoni Lugo, 3B
Alessandro Maestri, RHP
Andres Quezada, RHP (ex-OF)
Alvaro Ramirez, OF
Alvaro Sosa, RHP (ex-C)
Jose Valdez, OF

Peter Gammons, Twitter: "There are few better pitching coaches in the last 20 years than Larry Rothschild. A major coup for Brian Cashman"

Don't know if I'd have gone that far...

What, exactly, has Larry Rothschild done to get this reputation? "Few better pitching coaches..." "well respected" may or may not be true, but whatever it has been that made/makes Rothschild so great is too subtle for my eyes to see. Has he rescued careers? Taught pitchers new, effective pitches? What Cubs pitchers blossomed under his care?

When I found this blog in 2003, I think I spent a little electronic ink defending him, but his benefit to the team has been lost on me for years now. Two things he seems absolutely characteristic about are (1) always being the good cop (the bad side of which is being the parent who wants to be his kids' friend rather than an actual parent), and (2) always waiting one batter too many before going out. Maybe there were lots of times he went to the mound and said simply "lets quit dicking around", but I never once saw him go out with any fire or being pissed off. And he could be counted on to go out like clockwork after Marmol had walked the first two batters of an inning, but never after just one. Or after Heileman had walked one and allowed a hit..........Seems to me like if I saw the same thing happening over and over (and over and over and over) again that I might change my tactics.

So what have others seen that I've missed all this time?

The coaching part? Ryan Dempster? Leading the league in K's six years in a row? Focusing on his mound visits as the way to evaluate his performance is myopic.

Nice use of 'myopic'.

Dempster won 29 games for Florida in two seasons before he was twenty-five. (Rothschild left the Marlins before Dempster arrived there in '98.) So if, after surgery, Dempster regains his form under Rothschild, does LR get credit for Dempster's success?

The pitchers I recall going out of their way to praise Rothschild are Silva and Howry. Howry credited Rothschild for finally teaching him to throw a slider, which may have allowed him to hang on for a couple seasons after he lost his good fastball.

LR's two most talented pitchers with the Cubs, Zambrano and Marmol, have had some success, but they both look like they missed a few meetings with their coach.

Edit: I should say "most talented pitchers without serious arm problems."

When did Howry learn to throw a slider? I don't doubt he claimed he could, I just doubt that he ever actually could.

Wow, feel like I'm talking to myself here... Scary.

From Muskrat (Twitter) : Among the candidates for #Cubs pitching coach: Mark Riggins & Iowa coach Mike Mason. Greg Maddux is not in the mix

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/4884

Believe it when I tell you Larry is one of the most respected pitching coaches in the game. Other baseball people speak as highly of him as they do Dave Duncan. Larry took some heat over the years and was "credited" with that silly-looking towel drill. I did a story with Larry during the season from St. Louis, and he debunked that one, saying it came with Mark Prior through pitching guru Tom House. Other pitchers on other teams do the towel drill, too.

40-man at 39, so only room for one FA signing or Rule 5 at the moment barring trades or further releases.

Submitted by Rob G. on Fri, 11/19/2010 - 5:03pm.

40-man at 39, so only room for one FA signing or Rule 5 at the moment barring trades or further releases.

=============================================

ROB G: I hope the Cubs understand that they already have a de facto Rule 5 guy on the roster (Jeff Samardzija), and they don't need another one.

As for Cubs Pitching Coach, I would be surprised if Minor League Pitching Coordinator Mark Riggins isn't offered the job. Riggins has MLB experience as a pitching coach (with STL under Joe Torre before LaRussa-Duncan got there), and he has done an excellent job with the Cubs minor league pitchers since becoming MiLPC in 2008.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/_/i...

Levine says it will come from within and does mark Riggins as the favorite.

Rothschild motivated by 6 extra weeks with his kids in Tampa plus the few road games there (and a pay bump).

I thought he okayed his coach's option.

/dumbass hendry

rothschild allegedly picked up his own option just last month.

the new manager hadn't been named yet, though. that has a lot of say of who stays/goes regardless of options and contracts...especially if the coach can find a sweet multi-year deal elsewhere. clubs generally play loose and fast with coaches/managers compared to players.

cubs probably let him go 1- cuz it's a good deal for rothschild, who's a good guy 2- money saving

...or maybe he hadn't technically picked up his option, though he told the club and press he was.

either way, both sides are probably satisfied.

Submitted by crunch on Fri, 11/19/2010 - 7:45pm.
rothschild allegedly picked up his own option just last month.

the new manager hadn't been named yet, though. that has a lot of say of who stays/goes regardless of options and contracts...especially if the coach can find a sweet multi-year deal elsewhere. clubs generally play loose and fast with coaches/managers compared to players.

cubs probably let him go 1- cuz it's a good deal for rothschild, who's a good guy 2- money saving

...or maybe he hadn't technically picked up his option, though he told the club and press he was.

either way, both sides are probably satisfied.

============================================================

CRUNCH: The Yankees fired Pitching Coach Dave Eiland out of the blue two weeks after Rothschild picked up his 2011 contract option, so Yankees GM Brian Cashman probably asked Hendry for permission to talk with Rothschild only after Eiland was fired. Hendry could have said no (he supposedly did that when the Diamondbacks asked for permision to talk with Greg Maddux), but it's possible that the Cubs really didn't want Rothschild back in the first place, which would help explain why Hendry had no problem with the Yankees talking with Rothschild about the coaching vacancy.

The Cubs have already added their Minor League Hitting Coordinator (Dave Keller) to the big league coaching staff (Keller will be Game Prep/Batting Practice Coach), and it would follow that the Cubs Minor League Pitching Coordinator (Mark Riggins) would join the staff, too. That would be consistent with Ricketts' desire to promote from within.

the story is in the Levine link for everyone in comment #13 and as you said, Hendry gave the Yanks permission...reluctantly.

If it turns out to be Riggins, Phil, you called that one a long time ago.

So who is gonna try to keep Zambrano under wraps next year, or
maybe Larry will recommend Zambrano joins him.

I think being Z-free is one of the things that made the Yankees appealing.

from the Sun-Times (under WSux news?)...

Because of the relative high cost of first-round draft-pick compensation, don't expect the Cubs to pursue type A free agents if their teams offer arbitration (Tuesday deadline). That would take relievers Matt Guerrier, Jason Frasor and Grant Balfour off the Cubs' board. Among possible non-type-A targets: Kerry Wood, Javier Vazquez and Jesse Crain.

• Among the agents Cubs GM Jim Hendry met at the meetings were those who represent Vazquez, Aaron Harang and Vicente Padilla.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/white...

isn't everyone except Aaron Harang in agreement that he's not good anymore?

Does shopping at the dollar store for journeyman starters, RH relief, etc. really a trade up from the Cashners, Carpenters, Colemans, etc? I mean this team obviously has no FA money until 2012 at the earliest (presuming they don't spend $30M/yr on Adrian Gonzalez). It's not that I'm convinced Brett Jackson, Castro, Colvin, Vitters, Archer, and McNutt are going to be solid MLB contributors/starters, but really, are these FA names and relying on a Hendry trade taking this team measurably beyond what they might have in house in 2012-13? Honestly, Hendry's efforts this off-season (granted, a payroll 'knot' he helped create) seem like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. I'm not impressed, not excited, not encouraged.............meh.

Just a reminder about what happens between 11/20 and the conclusion of the Rule 5 Draft...

Players on minor league rosters who are eligible for selection in the Rule 5 Draft cannot be added to an MLB 40-man roster, traded, or released during the "closed period" between November 20th and the conclusion of the Rule 5 Draft. However, a minor league player who is eligible for selection in the Rule 5 Draft can be a "Player to Be Named Later" (PTBNL) in a trade that is made during the 11/20 - Rule 5 Draft closed period (of course that's presuming the PTBNL doesn't selected in the Rule 5 Draft).

Also, players who would be eligible for selection in the Rule 5 Draft if on a minor league roster can be outrighted off an MLB 40-man roster to the minors during the "closed period," but only up until two days prior to the Rule 5 Draft.

And for the first time in history, the MLB contract tender date (moved up to 12/2 from 12/12 this year) precedes the Rule 5 Draft, so that players who are non-tendered by their club on 12/2 and then immediately are re-signed by the club to a minor league contract (as happens fairly often) would be eligible for selection in the Rule 5 Draft. So look for the Rule 5 Draft to be moved up to sometime in November (that is, sometime prior to the MLB contract tender date) next year.

I'm actually surprised that the Rule 5 Draft wasn't moved up along with the other changes that took place this year (Article XX-B MLB Free-Agent Exclusive Negotiation Period cut from 15 days to five, deadline for clubs to offer arbitration to Type "A" and Type "B" MLB free-agents moved up to 11/23 from 12/1 and deadline for free-agents to accept or decline arbitration offers moved up to 11/30 from 12/7, and MLB contract tender date moved up to 12/2 from 12/12).

Here's what I would do...

Move the pre-Rule 5 Draft roster-filing deadline up ten days, from 11/20 to 11/10 (November 10th is the last day of the waiver period that begins on August 1st, so Outright Waivers secured after the end of the World Series expire on November 10th anyway). Then schedule the Rule 5 Draft for the Friday prior to Thanksgiving (date would vary from year-to-year, but it would never be earlier than 11/16 and never later than 11/22). That would provide enough time for clubs to clean-up their rosters after the World Series and would give clubs about a week to digest the list of Rule 5 eligibles before the draft. And then clubs could decide whether to offer salary arbitration to Type "A" and Type "B" free-agents after the Rule 5 Draft, and finally after all that, contracts would be tendered on 12/2 as the last order of club business prior to the start of the Winter Meetings.

Mlbtr just posted that the cubs have re-signed Bryan LaHair to a minor league contract, so is he currently #1 on the cubs 1B depth chart? (even though he isn't on the 40 man roster)

~shudder~

Submitted by Cubster on Sat, 11/20/2010 - 1:12pm.
Mlbtr just posted that the cubs have re-signed Bryan LaHair to a minor league contract, so is he currently #1 on the cubs 1B depth chart? (even though he isn't on the 40 man roster)

~shudder~

=============================================

CUBSTER: Tyler Colvin is #1 at 1B on our Cubs Depth Chart here at TCR, and as far as I know, our depth chart is the one the Cubs manager usually checks prior to filling out his lineup card.

And then Geovany Soto is #2, playing 1B on days he's not catching. (And if his shoulder doesn't bounce back, he might end up playing a LOT of 1B in 2011!).

Depressing.

X
  • Sign in with Twitter