Cubs Saturday Rumor Round-Up

Since I know you beasts are dying to gossip...

- ESPN Boston reported that the Red Sox made some progress in acquiring Adrian Gonzalez. Ken Rosenthal countered that the Cubs are very much in the mix (tease). Buster Olney one upped them both this morning and is reporting a deal is in place for Gonzalez to go to the Red Sox pending a physical and the team has been granted a window to try and negotiate an extension.

- Zack Greinke is another big name the Cubs should be in on, but will fall short landing. The latest rumor there is the Rangers are trying to get him and Cliff Lee this offseason. The Cubs instead are focused on...

- Jerry Crasnick tweeted yesterday that the Nats & Cubs are gonna duke it out for Brandon Webb. The Cubs lost the first round battle against the Nats last year over Matt Capps. And in case you forgot, the last time Webb pitched for anyone to watch he was hitting 84 mph on the gun. Now Fangraphs says his average was 88mph back in the heyday, so I guess he can find 4 mph as he progresses, but that's what most of us guessed about Mark Prior all those years too.

- Aaron Harang is going to try and resurrect his career at pitcher-friendly Petco Park.

- Bleacher Nation has its own source saying the Cubs could be landing Chris Davis soon. Ace over there is on the up and up, so I'm sure he indeed was told that, but like so many rumors, that doesn't mean it will end up happening.

Rumors will be flying with Winter Meetings ready to start, so stay tuned to this bat channel.

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Comments

I'm not thinking the Cubbies were too serious about this anyhow, as much as that sucks. This just wasn't the year for it, and of course, that's when SD finally comes off him.

Oh well. This'll give Hendry another excuse as to why he should get to keep his job two years from now "I wanted AGonz but you [Ricketts] didn't want to give me the money to pay him"

San Diego's front office had to feel much more comfortable dealing with the Red Sox and their prospects since that's where they used to work. That was a big leg up.

I'm wondering if the Chris Davis talk was to send him to SD as part of a package. Or if it's to have him come to the northside.

SD has their own Chris Davis type though. Granted, Kyle Blanks will miss the start of the year, but he's somewhat similar.

Phil was closer than me of course.

Ends up being C. Kelly, A. Rizzo and OF R. Fuentes along with a PTBNL going to the Padres that isn't suppose to be too high profile.

Jeter to Yanks for 3/51

Not that A. Gonz would turn the 2011 Cubs into a contender, but seeing a good team like the Sox get even better makes me wish the Cubs had a competent GM.

I was thinking, never really hear any of Hendry's subordinates up for GM jobs, do we?

Nope. It's so incredibly frustrating to see a large market team hamstrung by huge underperforming contracts which weren't even all that defensible when they were given out. Hendry has certainly made some good moves, but the bad ones are just killing this team.

It's a solid deal for both sides. With AGon's injury, final year status, and the fact that few teams could give him the mega-contract that he wanted, the Padres were a bit limited. Had they waited to deal AGon, their return might've been limited had their been any issue with the injury. They got a high ceiling young arm that is close to ready (probably could be ready at some point in 2011), a close to ready solid 1st base prospect in Rizzo, a high ceiling youngster in Fuentes, and a 4th guy. Not bad. Not great, but not bad. On the flip side, the Red Sox had a strong draft. When you factor in that they spend heavily on the draft each year, along with the fact that they'll net some picks for Beltre and VMart, they should be able to reload fairly quickly, though. That doesn't diminish the fact that they gave up 3 very good prospects, though. Of course, Rizzo was loosely "blocked" (had they landed Gonzalez without Rizzo, they would've had to move him to another spot), and if Ryan Westmoreland comes back, losing Fuentes won't be a big deal (and they still have a decent young CF prospect in Che-Hsuan Lin).

I do agree with some assessments that they should've tried to get Iglesias instead of Rizzo. Of course, maybe they tried and were rejected.

i can't believe SD is punting on 2011 for this. i mean, they have some nice pitching, but they're chipping away at bats they can't afford to chip away at. they're obviously not punting...they're going to try to field a competitive team...i just can't believe they didn't get anything substantial with 2011 impact.

at least they're not as bad as oakland. with oakland's pitching it's almost insulting they fielded that mix of bats in 2010...2011 isn't looking much better so far.

Oakland did put out a big offer for Adrian Beltre, and they have money to spend so let's wait and see on what happens with the A's for 2011.

As for San Diego, I understand their rationale for doing this. I'm also guessing that Jed Hoyer probably tried his dang best to get some cost controlled immediate help, but probably didn't find it. After all, there were the early speculation/rumors that focused on how he wanted guys like Ellsbury, Lowrie, or Bard.

For small market teams though, it is all about building that window, and the Padres simply didn't have a great window to look at right now. With AGon, they might've been competitive in 2011, but they lacked the upper level assets to think they could keep this up when AGon left. I'm not necessarily saying it's the right move, but it seems clear that this move is geared towards building a window starting around 2013. They've got some good assets in the low levels.

true enough...i don't think i'd be happy about it unless the hole is filled if i was a SD fan, though. they got so close and he was such a big catalyst for it...though the strong pitching really saw them though.

supposedly ARZ is making noise about not making m.reynolds available to SD in order to squash early rumors...so that might be out as an option.

Heyman tweets Konerko is likely to stay with White Sox.

LaRussa wants Berkman for the Cards.

LaRussa wants Berkman for the Cards.

To do what? Scrub Pujols' cup after games?

They are putting him in LF. That's a good situation for Berkman, and the Cards look to have a fairly strong lineup.

Yup.

At 1 p.m. ET on Sunday, MLB Network will hold a special re-air of "This Old Cub," the 2004 documentary chronicling Santo's playing days and his battle with diabetes.

meh and meh...edited out an already-made (by someone else) comment...

I'm a lumberjack and I don't care!

cards close the deal on berkman...

probably gonna play RF...good luck with that.

$8 million.

Says Holliday to RF, Berkman in LF.

http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/111869...

makes more sense...

That outfield defense sounds freaking horrible. Reminiscent of Soriano in LF and Murton/FLoyd in RF. Except with much better bats, so it's probably fine.

The Cubs also offered $8 million to Berkman, but one source said there were deferred payments in the Cubs’ offer.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/_/i...

Some other info in there as well.

Thanks, hadn't seen that!

"face of the franchise!" "icon!"

...if it was any team but the 1/4 billion payroll yanks people would ask why a 36 year old SS who just had his worst year since he was a rookie got a 16m+ contract from a team bidding against itself.

Yup. What's worse is, he held them hostage in the court of public opinion for what? $2m per and a fourth year, performance-based option.

Whoop-de-doo

So Jason Schmidt and $7 Million = Derek Jeter?

Tough to make a good 3/44 joke these days.

No, I think that was pretty good.

On the GM thing, the biggest thing that frustrates me is the timeliness (or lack thereof).

It seems year after f'n year we watch other teams do things while the Cubs "wait and see".

Unless he's magically finding a way to trade Soriano, WTF is he waiting for? I understand we don't know what's behind the scenes, but come on. Though I don't think other teams are beating down his door, Pena's not gonna get that much cheaper, and if he really can't complete a trade for Chris f'n Davis then something's gotta give.

Disagree. When the music stops, there will be guys without jobs, and then Hendry can sign them for peanuts. Assuming he first doesn't eat those peanuts. The two best things a GM can do, in order, are go good or go cheap. In the past, he's shown a remarkable ability for avoid doing both. Now, maybe he can at least master the second one. Baby steps.

Oh, understood, I just think JH will find a way to dick it up.

It's not that I don't (cognitively) understand the theoretical process, it's that I don't trust Hendry to deliver at the end. That combined with a little 'hot stove fever' makes me want to see something now...

1) Have you been paying attention? No > who cares; Yes >
2) Are you mentally retarded? Yes > sorry about that; No >
3) JH has an obvious history of doing a bad job, and no one trusts him, but hey, he's all we've got

The thing that irritates me about the Cubs is that they don't seem to ever have a plan. They seem to never target a big name free agent or trade prospect. Instead, they wait (with all of the small market teams) to see who doesn't sign with the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, etc. Then they build a team out of the scraps. They look for good value (read: mediocre talent for low dollars) and rebound candidates. It's not that Theo Epstein never makes a mistake, but at least it appears he has a plan when he enters the off-season.

Totally agree, well-summed-up.

Hendry has had a specific plan in years past - when ownership allowed him to spend freely. The last few years he's been on a leash, and this year is the tightest yet. The only players that sign early are guys being overpaid in either salary or years, or both. Not being in on these ridiculous deals is a good thing. In the past it's resulted in us signing the contracts we are bitching about now.

Ummm the Cubs have spent the better part of the last 80 years being a day late and a dollar short on getting real talent through free agency. I just see it as a return to business as usual.

Our first base options are rapidly heading into Ron Coomer territory.

At this point we better hope for Chris Davis, because he is the best of whats left at 1b.

And the year Crawford actually hits free agency and we got no place for him to play. Cock blocked our selves again.

beyond konerko and dunn the entire 1st market is all "meh" to me...

c.pena, a.laroche, glaus, dlee...hell, let's have jim thome play 1st (joke...i think his mobility is pretty limited at this point).

You laugh, he put up decent #s last year, esp based on gms played.

I have to keep reminding myself that his back is, like, physically broken at this point (and he still hits bombs)

yeah...it's his lack of mobility that keeps him from being considered for 1st. he doesn't even run straight routes on the base paths too well anymore (not barry bonds style broken, though).

Ohhh and the reason your hearing the Rangers in on every deal and big time free agent is because they signed a new TV contract that pays them $150 million extra dollars every single year. Thats before they sell one ticket.

Bring back Cliff Lee? Sign Crawford? Take on Soriano and Zito's contract and still have enough to sign a Jeter for Yankee dollars. Yeah the Rangers have a crap load of money to throw around for the next 20 years. That team could easily put a 220 million dollar team on the field and still make money hand over fist.

it's really 70-80m a year, but that's still damn good loot for a medium-market team. the 150m/yr report, though picked up by major media outlets, was a bit overblown. i remember being all "!?!??!?!" when the 150m figure came out. even with the correction i left still impressed with the 70-80m figure.

That $75 million a year was never substantiated either, I don't think, and it doesn't go into effect until 2014, though allegedly there was some sort of "signing bonus".

When Hendry strikes first he spends ungodly amounts of money. See Soriano, Eyre, Howry, etc.

The problem this year is we keep hearing how tight of a budget Hendry is on. I've heard they have anywhere from $2-7 million to spend, total. And we keep hearing Hendry wants to fill at least 3 positions - 1B, veteran late inning RH reliever, and another SP. Do the math, he can't sign any marquee guys and fit 3 of them in for $7 mil. And if his budget is less than $7 mil, it's a real problem. He's shopping from the bargain bin - that's why there's such talk of these rehabbing pitchers. My guess is he's trying to sign one of them (Webb) for $3 mil or less in guarantees. Then he'll look at relievers, and at the end he probably looks at 1b. He probably needs to spend no more than $2 mil each for the RP and the 1B. That should rule out Carlos Pena, who I read Boras is asking for $8 mil for. It would also rule out LaRoche, who should get $6-7-8 mil, unless all the chairs fill up before the music ends. I could see Hendry either trying to deal for a cheap 1B like Davis from Texas who will get around $500k next year, or sign someone cheap, like Brad Hawpe, who probably could be signed for $1 million or less. Signing a reliever who hasn't been hurt lately and has proven he can pitch in late relief is going to be pretty hard for $2 mil.

If Hawpe was going to get a $1 or less, he wouldn't have declined arbitration. Davis is no better than Hoffpauir. I would bet that your $7 million is closer to $11 million.

I agree Davis is no better than Hoffpauir. Hendry must really have been down on Hoff to even fill in for one season. Otherwise, why let him leave? It wasn't in the best interests of the Cubs, who could actually use him right now.

Unless they sign a proven 1B like LaRoche or Pena, the other options aren't any better than Hoffpauir. And the way Pena hit last year, I'd rather let Hoff play everyday. I loke LaRoche's consistency, but he's a guy that moves from team to team for some reason (bad clubhouse guy?).

I think AZ Phil or someone said that Hoffpauir signed for $1M, which is more than double what he could make with the Cubs. Hendry, being the friendly and generous man he is, didn't stand in Hoffpaiur's way of cashing in (relatively speaking). Also, the Cubs were supposed to receive almost $500k from the Japanese team as part of the contract. I may be misremembering, but there it is

Hopefully Hendry isn't going to limit himself with things like Handedness over talent this year?

Hawpe, Webb and George Sherrill would be an acceptable offseason haul at this point. Upside for bounce back is high for all 3. All 3 will have July value if the Cubs faulter down the stretch.

Cubs 2010 5th round pick OF Matt Szczur racked-up 196 yards combined (including 128 receiving yards on 11 catches), leading Villanova to a 54-24 victory over Stephen F. Austin in a FCS playoff game today. Nova plays at #1 seed Appalachian State next week.

Szczur received a $100K bonus when he signed with the Cubs, and played at AZL Cubs, Boise, and Peoria (hitting a combined 347/414/465 with 10 doubles in just 25 games) before returning to Villanova in August for his senior year. The Cubs gave him the OK to finish his college football career, but he will have to decide by February whether to attend the NFL combine. If he does not go to the combine and commits 100% to baseball, he gets another $500K bonus.

Szczur has been compared to Patriots WR Wes Welker, although Szczur is used as a combination RB-WR-PR at Villanova. He missed much of the 2010 football season with a high ankle sprain, but he apparently is something close to 100% now.

Matt's probably a mid-round pick at best in the upcoming NFL draft. That said, provided he runs the exemplary time people expect, he has a shot due to his slot ability in the widening NFL passing attacks, along with his ST ability. It may simply come down to what sport he prefers more.

So far he seems like a helluva baseball prospect. Maybe the injury problems he had this year will push him that way.

Count me in favor of spending on non-reaches in round 1, over shelling massive over slots on Football players late.

The quicker we get away from the Hendry/Hughes/Wilken "looks good in a uni" scouting sway. The quicker that this system can be counted on for more than just unsubstantiated hype.

sigh...

I think Stockstill was more of the "looks good in a uni" scouting. Wilken's focus on athletes has it's problems (lack of corner power is the most glaring), but there is sound rationale for drafting up-the-middle talent and athletic pitchers. By no means am I saying the system can't get better (or that someone else couldn't kickstart things), but the system, and the drafting, since Wilken came in has been critical at rebuilding the system from the low points of the mid-2000's. Now, I'd like to see him focus on positional assets for this upcoming draft, as we're a bit thin in the lower levels (whereas we have enough intriguing arms in the lower levels), and I wonder how much of the pitching heavy influence is from Hendry (something Wilken acknowledged he'd be doing (drafting more arms that is) when he joined us).

I would also like to see us gamble on a few more overslots, but Wilken can't control how much money we can spend, so that's not his fault. I'm sure he'd like to spend more, but that's more a decision for Hendry and Ricketts.

I'm all for going over slot in the draft. I just think going overslot is better used on Sonny Gray and Andrew Cashner when we drafted them. Not a 22 year old football player.

That's not exactly how it works.

Go into last year's draft and say which non-signees we should have paid $1 million for now... don't do it five years later.

The 22 year old football player does have baseball skills, though. Plus speed, solid hit tool, some potential for a bit of pop, enough to perhaps be more than a slap guy.

How big is he?

5'11 205 when he plays football, 6'1 190 when he plays baseball.

http://www.villanova.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/...
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats...

Interesting.

I tend to buy the 5'11" more. Saw a Nova game and just don't buy him as 6'1".

Why are all the commentators saying that the Yankees won? They gave an $8M player option to what will be a 40-year-old shortstop with no openings anywhere else on their infield, and just for kicks, even if he declines (heh) he still slips $3M into his pocket. Karmically speaking, using the $3M for anything other than procuring sodomy would be wrong.

It depends on how you look at it, but he was allegedly looking for a 6 year, $150 million contract. It was very similar to the Torre situation in that he was worth more to the Yankees than to other teams. The Yankees had to walk the line of bringing him back, knowing that they were offering him more than any other team would pay him, but also knowing that the "brand" would suffer in lost revenue if he was gone. At some point, because it wasn't about the money, but about the pride, he would have left the Yankees to sign a two year $16 million deal elsewhere, if they tried to force him to a market-rate contract. Jeter's already made his money.

At the end of the day it came down to Jeter finding leverage because the Yanks didn't really have any other ML options for SS. All that brand stuff is bs. But you know that.

Nah, I think that if they had signed Edgar Renteria for $5 million, you'd lose a lot of merchandising sales (think pink caps) and TV ratings, and there would be a bit of deterioration to the brand. Nothing franchising shaking, but a chip.

Wittenmeyer on Hendry...

In fact, as general manager Jim Hendry and the Cubs face the winter meetings in Orlando, Fla., this week, they already have been caught looking lately more often than Milton Bradley with a man on third

will the writers ever let MB go?

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/...

Agree on letting MB go, but that is kinda funny

Not justifying it, but writers have long memories of guys who snub them.

Players can kill puppies on the infield as long as they talk to the media afterwards they will love them.

CCO has it's usual weekend summary of Bruce Levine's saturday radio Talking Baseball show.

http://chicagocubsonline.com/archives/2010/12...

kill me now

The Cubs have reportedly stepped up their pursuit of Brandon Webb and could be down to Carlos Pena to fill the void at first ... or start the year with Jeff Baker as the player with the most Major League experience at first base.

If they get a platoon partner for Baker ... I'm not that against the idea, at least, relative to what's left on the market. It might be cheaper and offer close enough productivity to be worthwhile.

Hell, bring Cliff Floyd out of retirement to play 1B. They have to be able to find someone to play 1B. The problem with sticking Baker there, besides his not bringing 1B offensive production, is that would mean Dewitt plays full time, and he's barely better than Fontesuck.

well, honestly...there's so many 1st looking a starting job they probably won't have to resort to baker.

my thinking (no clue what Hendry is thinking) is that a platoon situation at first could potentially open up extra money to pursue a 2nd baseman, and that might be a better combination than signing what's left on the FA market and Baker/DeWitt at 2nd.

Submitted by toonsterwu on Mon, 12/06/2010 - 2:27am.
my thinking (no clue what Hendry is thinking) is that a platoon situation at first could potentially open up extra money to pursue a 2nd baseman, and that might be a better combination than signing what's left on the FA market and Baker/DeWitt at 2nd.

==================================================

TOONSTER: Last July (about three weeks after Josh Byrnes and A. J. Hinch were fired, and just before the Cubs traded Ryan Theriot and Ted Lilly to the Dodgers) there were reports in both the Chicago and Phoenix media that there was a deal in place that would have sent Ryan Theriot and James Russell to the D'backs for Kelly Johnson, but then the Cubs supposedly backed-out because they didn't want to include Russell, instead sending The Riot to the Dodgers essentially for Blake DeWitt as the other part of the Ted Lilly for Brett Wallach and Kyle Smit deal.

It looks like the Cubs probably made a mistake when they opted to trade Theriot to the Dodgers instead of to the D'backs. While the Cubs did definitely save some 2010 payroll and gained three years of club control by acquiring DeWitt instead of Kelly Johnson to play 2B, Johnson would have provided the lefty power bat at 2B that the Cubs are now seeking at 1B, helping to relieve some of the pressure Hendry feels now to sign or trade for a LH middle-of-the-order power-hitting 1B.

Hendry probably thought at the time that he would have no trouble signing a LH power-hitting 1B after the season, and he also probably did not envision Geovany Soto having shoulder surgery at the end of the 2010 season that might cause him to have to play 1B in 2011 (at least for a while) if the shoulder rehab doesn't go as smoothly as hoped. (And even if Soto's shoulder is 100% from the gitgo, it might be a good thing to be able to keep your best hitter in the lineup playing another position on days he 's not catching).

The Diamonbacks have a new GM (ex-SD GM Kevin Towers) who has historically had a good relationship with Jim Hendry but who may not have any strong interest in moving Kelly Johnson at this time, and what happened last July is ancient history because the D'backs have to a large extent cleaned house, but hopefully Hendry will ask or has asked Towers about the availability of Kelly Johnson. It might help motivate Towers to trade Johnson knowing that he is probably due for a significant raise in his last year of arbitration, that he is eligible to be a free-agent after the 2011 season, and that the Cubs can offer the D'backs both an auto-renewal replacement 2B (Blake DeWitt) with three more years of club control beyond what Johnson offers and a large inventory and array of young arms that come in all shapes and sizes, ages, and dextrosity.

"Dextrosity"

132 on DW tile. Nicely done. I've been looking for the real word that means "handedness."

Phil, you are a man of many talents.

Kenney said Hendry is "dug-in in Orlando...

Hendry video from Orlando, note his technique on his favorite location for free agent discussion with agents:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p96A-dAq8c&fe...

I want Rebel Ridling to play 1B this year. If the team is going to suck, at least we need players with colorful names...that remind us of the Santo-Hundley era Cubs.

I like it, nicely done.

Bos/SD Gonzales trade falls through.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/05/...

Gonzalez wants an 8-year extension. Anyone think we should still trade for him?

The Nats should trade for them. What dumbasses.

"Anyone think we should still..."

Um, yes? Is yes an option??

Although I'd hate to trade all the great position players we ha--what? No?

Oh, then yeah, let's trade for him.

He turns 29 next year, his game doesn't rely on his 'speed', gold glove D and hits the ball to all fields with power....

Yes, I absolutely still want to trade for him. And Rob, bookmark this, so if he turns to shit in 2 years I can eat crow properly... ;-)

Exactly why I wanted Dunn at 4 years.

An 8-year deal is absurd in itself, but far more reasonable if it doesn't cost your top prospects.

But it does cost Washington their 2nd round pick, which is extremely high.

And tell me how replacing Dunn with Werth somehow makes Washington contenders? Werth is a better overall player, but Washington has several other holes and a full year of waiting for Strasburg to return and find out how good he might be. I think signing a big name free agent, be it an OF or 1B or whatever, would have made more sense for the Nats in 1-2 years. This team isn't going to contend yet, so that's a minimum of $18 million wasted next year, plus maybe the year after that.

If you look at the Cubs, it makes no sense to be spending all this money we already have committed if we're not going to make the moves it takes to contend. We should be dumping payroll right now. Move anyone you can who makes more than the minimum. Why pay Dempster $14 or $16 mil next year (whatever the figure is)? Why pay any of these guys when we are going to suck? Trade anyone you can, load up on prospects, and go get more vets through trades and signings in a few years when we start to have a core of young guys to build around. And no, Castro, Colvin, and Cashner are not enough of a foundation. Come back in a couple years when hopefully Brett Jackson, Jay Jackson, and Chris Archer are contributing as starters, and then we can begin to think about adding vets around them. Otherwise, clean house.

Washington could be pushing for a playoff spot in 2012. the offense looks real solid, they have money to make a move for another pitcher AND they can flip Willingham for a decent mid-end of the rotation arm. Rizzo's got some very intriguing assets in the system, and they just had a strong draft (besides Bryce that is).

If Willingham can play 1st, and the Nationals GM continues smoking crack, perhaps a Silva for Willingham trade could work.

It's pretty rare that you can just sign all the guys you need in one off-season. Sign one guy now, get one guy next year etc.

d.jeter took his physical today...i think the yanks added 3-5m to his deal afterward then another 1-2m after some kickass high-fives when he passed.

they gave him another 1m for taxi fare back to his place.

ooops, as i posted this they gave him a 2m xmas bonus.

they gave him another 1m for taxi fare back to his place.
---
Imagine the taxi driver's emotions with a 10% tip.

I knew there was a reason so many New Yorkers take the subway

I don't think the taxi driver gets a tip, Patrick Kane was also in the cab.

"Jayson Werth is nearing a deal with the Nationals, reports Todd Zolecki of MLB.com."

say whaaaaaaat?

apparently it's a 7 yr deal (Werth will be 40 at the end of that contract); supposedly at Matt Holiday dollars, so around $120M.

woah.

btw, he may be a jerk, but he shows up ready to play. that's...something.

Holy crap. When are GMs going to start cutting down on years? 7 years for a 32 year old is too much, especially when you're paying him that many that much. It's baseball--it's completely possible that Werth, or Gonzalez for that matter, will fall completely off the table in terms of production 3 years from now. I don't have a problem with the money shelled out--as long as it is in line with revenues, etc.--but the # of years just makes no sense.

my fantasy team is happy he'll be playing in a decent-enough hitter's park. my nightmare of him somehow ending up with OAK never even made it to the rumor stage. woo.

Oh my God. I can suddenly see why Gonzalez wanted eight years.

Werth gets 7/126, Hendry still overpaid for Soriano even by standards 4 years later.

http://event.on24.com/r.htm?e=264971&s=1&k=83...

It's only funny cause it's true...

I don't get it. A younger better player for less money is overpaying?

I thought the point was that even though the Nats are ridiculously overpaying Werth, it still doesn't match the Soriano contract in out and out numbers.

And I think 'better' (based solely on what he's done for the Cubs) may be debatable in a couple years (although Werth is overrated and now overpaid)

Clear as mud?? ;)

Let's revisit Werth's contract in four years. I bet names like Dreifort, Schmidt, and Hampton come to mind.

Fun fact:

Jason Werth has been traded 2 times in his career.

1st time straight up for John Bale

2nd time straight up for Jason Frasier

Has any 30+ player parlayed 3 seasons of being a starter into a better deal?

Submitted by Dr. aaron b on Mon, 12/06/2010 - 11:45am.
Fun fact:

Jason Werth has been traded 2 times in his career.

1st time straight up for John Bale

2nd time straight up for Jason Frasier

Has any 30+ player parlayed 3 seasons of being a starter into a better deal?

=======================================

DR AARON B: Werth was non-tendered once, too.

Good lawd what a stupid move by the Nationals.

They replaced Adam Dunn by double overpaying for an inferior offensive player? Sounds like the height of Cubbery

"Nattery"??

Jayson Werth is an inferior offensive player? I think it's fairly close, and in terms of overall value, Werth is more valuable than Dunn. There's a case that Werth will age better than Dunn (there's also a case that Dunn might age alright)

werth can confidently play RF/CF/LF with a decent throwing arm. adam dunn is a DH-quality fielder who can questionably play LF/1st.

I said OFFENSIVE player

I actually sort of like this move for Washington. This was their "statement" move, to try and get them on the map with other free agents. Sure, the contract will be ugly, in all likelihood, in a few years (although Werth is a superb athlete and doesn't have as much wear and tear as some guys his age ... that said, at the very least, the last, say, 2 years should be pretty bad). Rizzo's building a solid system there. At some point, you have to make a statement move to get your org on the map, and this was theirs. Now, they still have money to land a starter and then to potentially flip Williingham for another starter. When Strasburg comes back in 2012 (and Harper might be up mid-late 2012 as well), this team will be very intriguing.

It was absolutely a statement. I think the problem with that is what you wrote could be written almost verbatim for when the Cubs signed Soriano.

And the point is, look how well our 'statement' has worked for us.

As for Werth, I don't think he's going to suddenly fall off, he just sure as hell ain't gonna be worth that much money. But who knows.

"And the point is, look how well our 'statement' has worked for us."

Two playoff appearences and a pretty competitive season in four years. I'll bet that the Nationals will take that if they can get it on the first four years of the Werth deal.

Agreed, but how much of that do you attribute to Soriano? Even just his 'presence' in the lineup?

I'll readily grant, there were certain months that that man got uber-hot and carried the team. I was thinking more about 0-6 in the playoffs, actually.

You're probably right in that the Nats are fighting for respectability at this point; with DLee and ARam, Cubs fans were hoping for more...

Reminds me of when the Tigers signed/overpaid for Pudge after their miserable 43-119 season.

from mlb trade rumors (and Joel Sherman tweet)...

It was said earlier this week that the most serious suitors for the 31-year-old were the Phillies, Tigers, and Red Sox. Those three teams were all in on Werth up until the end, tweets Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. Ultimately, Boston offered just four years, tweets Joel Sherman of the New York Post.

(at least Boston/Theo kept their offer to a more sane level)

...it just won't die...

"Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston says he has "every reason to believe" the Red Sox are still talking with Adrian Gonzalez."

Talking with the Padres is fine, talking with Gonzalez now is tampering.

This is from yesterday, might be 3/44 (sorry if I missed it, I think somebody mentioned it above)

"Scott Boras' asking price for Carlos Pena remains "really high." The first baseman does have interest in Baltimore."

Y'know what? Fuck him. Fuck Pena, fuck Boras, fuck 'em right in their asses. I don't mind, even sometimes enjoy, the posturing and the back and forth and competing interests between teams and agents.

The guy didn't even make above the fucking Mendoza line last year. I hope Boras screws him into sitting a year. I may regret this, but I would actually rather have J f'n Baker at 1B than buckle and overpay for Pena. That's ridiculous, there is a matter of good taste IMO. Be happy somebody wants to offer a major league contract for the guy and be done with it, stop trying to wring that last drop of blood out of that stone.

Side notes, if Baltimore wants him they can have him. And somebody should actually go to jail, and I mean federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison, over that J Werth deal. Werth wasn't worth (no pun intended) that much in his wildest fucking dreams. Yes, since it's the Nats they probably had to overpay, but not that much. Welcome to the f'n club, Nats fans. Alf Sorry says hello.

*edit Rant over, my apologies if there's kids in the room, thank you for listening.

if pena is any more than 6-8m a year they might as well go get c.davis, imo.

meh...

the whole 1st market aside from konerko/dunn never really interested me too much, though.

I'm thinking even that's a bit much, based on jobs available and Pena's avg last year, but that's me. I thought that was the whole "Hendry is waiting" thing.

If Pena is going to cost $8m per, I'd have rather had Berkman for one yr and tried again next year with more $$ flexibility

For God's sake, what's LaRoche want per year? He'll hit .270, 25 HR's, 80 RBI's.....he can't be worse than Adam Dunn at 1B?

Well, apparently 27 HR's and 85 RBI's gets you 7 years and $126 million...

ha.

Boras is never in a rush, there's still a market for 1bmen out there and he'll never settle until there is no market.

Heyman says on Twitter it's done, no details yet

*edit J Sherman confirms, says no extension til Spring when Gonz shows his shoulder is ok

says no extension til Spring when Gonz shows his shoulder is ok

Or, more accurately, until after Opening Day so the contract doesn't impact the Red Sox 2011 luxury tax.

Damn ... Brewers get Shaun Marcum. I've always liked him.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/11135885...

love this comment on the Marcum deal for young pitching prospects (from a Brewer fan)...
---
wait... We have pitching prospects?

brett lawrie supposedly involved..that's a hell of a prospect.

I don't think his upside is any better than what Marcum is showing right now though. Would have been cool had someone woke up Hendry before this trade went down.

cubs equivalent to brett lawrie would be a talent like starlin castro, fwiw.

that said, lawrie being involved is still rumor.

probably more brett jackson, but either way, good deal for toronto, particularly if they are setting up for a Greinke move (and even if they aren't, it's still a good move, they have rotation depth).

I wouldn't have wanted to fork over ... say ... Brett Jackson for Shaun Marcum (that's probably the best comparison to make). Marcum's solid,but I wouldn't make that move. I'm fine with the idea of trading Brett - I'd rather it be in package for a more meaningful player, and someone who we are certain will be a solid piece for the next few years.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/11135885...

Brewer's beat writer Tom Haudricourt just updated his article that Lawrie is a part of the deal.

UPDATE: A SOURCE IN CANADA JUST TOLD ME THAT MINOR LEAGUE 2B BRETT LAWRIE IS IN THE DEAL FOR MARCUM. HE IS LISTED BY BASEBALL AMERICA AS THE BREWERS' TOP MINOR LEAGUE PROSPECT. HE IS A CANADIAN AND THE BLUE JAYS HAVE COVETED HIM FOR SOME TIME.

horrible deal. melviin is getting desperate. I like Marcum, but he doesn't make them a playoff team, IMO, and they just gave up their top prospect, a potential slugger to step in once Prince leaves.

If the Blue Jays are setting us up for a Greinke move ... they may be able to compete in the AL East.

Lawrie is not a slugger to step in for Fielder...not yet. He is, a very good 2B prospect though.
2010 AA: .285/.346/.451, 8 HR, 63 RBI, 30/43 SB...36 2B, 16 3B, 47BB/118 K's
He's 20...so lots of room to grow. I dunno....seems like a bit of a reach for Marcum.

I think anytime you can deal a hitter for a good starting pitcher, that's a no-brainer. Lawrie hasn't shown the power people expect him to, yet, and he's a poor fielder who will be moved to corner OF or 1B. Marcum is an above average starting pitcher. Getting another team to trade a good SP is like pulling your own teeth. Look at Marcum's WHIP the last 3 season's he's pitched: 1.245, 1.163, 1.147. And that's in the AL East. Those kind of pitchers don't grow on trees. Even if Lawrie becomes a 25 hr guy, it's a good trade for the Brewers.

I tend to agree somewhat. I think the Brewers are just trying to make a playoff push in the last year of the Fielder Era.

We will probably see them being big time sellers in 12 months.

At the spot that the Brewers are in, a team that isn't ready to compete, I think it's a horrible move. You give up a top 50 prospect for a 29 year old arm, when you aren't ready to compete? Then, you compound it by giving Marcum a long term deal (at least, that's what the rumors indicate they are going to do). That's foolish, IMO. Lawrie's expected to carry above average power for a corner role if he shifts there, as most anticipate. Lawrie's bat will be ready at least by 2012, and perhaps at some point in 2011. I say this as someone that doesn't care that Marcum is a soft-tossing righty and believes that he should be fine in the NL, but he is basically a better Randy Wells right now, a very useful arm, but, IMO, not worth your system's a top prospect, a legit top 50 guy, a possible top 30 prospect.

The flipside is that Marcum should improve by switching to a much easier league/division. He is still under club control for 2 more years. His value should go up, and at worst you should get Type A compensation if he leaves in 2 years.

He does look like a nice #2 starter to slot in behind Gallardo.

Being the likely last year of the Fielder Era. Milwaukee really only has a good 1 year window to compete. This is them taking their shot.

Story about Santo rejecting his first Cubs contract in the winter of 59-60.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/sa...

What's with the insult to Santo?

"...Ron Santo, the Cubs' beloved third baseman and chauvinist broadcaster..."

FWIW, from Webster:

Definition of CHAUVINISM
1
: excessive or blind patriotism

I'm guessing that was the writer's intent, although he kinda seems like a dork.

Also, re: that article, if memory serves I read that like EVERY major league team was in on Santo that year. It makes total sense that there were some sort of negotiations....

John Sickels' new list is up. Nobody gets an A. VITTERS downgraded to a C+.

http://www.sockroll.com/Chicago-Cubs-Top-20-P...

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