Cubs Send Aaron Kurcz to Red Sox to Still Not Complete Theo Compensation

Back when Chris Carpenter was announced as being sent over to the Boston Red Sox for Theo Epstein, I mentioned that the deal still can't properly be evaluated because there were still 2 players to be named later involved. There was some talk that it was just a logistic move, that the Red Sox had to send a player  to the Cubs besides an executive and the two players would be non-news. Well that turned out to be B.S. Today the Cubs announced they're sending RHP Aaron Kurcz to the Red Sox and we still don't know who the Cubs are getting. Temples were built in less time.

As for Kurcz, he's hardly a nobody, a matter of fact I was going to put him around #15 on my prospect list I was hoping to get out for Monday. He was a teammate of Bryce Harper at College of Southern Nevada, but beyond that coincidence, he's a 21-year old power righty reliever with a 9.9 whiff rate to go with a 3.7 BB/9 ratio. He might not be the quality of Chris Carpenter, but certainly not someone to just dismiss.

As the baseball world turns...

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Cubs pitchers gave up 16 hits and walked six vs. the Diamondbacks. Jeff Beliveau walked two batters with the bases loaded to force in two runs and then served up a grand slam to Paul Goldschmidt in a seven-run seventh.

didn't take the demotion too well

DeWitt hit on hand, X-rays pending. Stewart out a few days with sore quad, Barney d2D with tightness in left side.

Bunting Final 4 tomorrow
Coleman vs. Maholm
DeJesus vs. W. Castillo

So here's my question: I feel like #15 on a prospect list IS nothing but I've never sat down and studied prospects turned into decent to good in the majors. Outside of the 1 in a 1000 chance teams get, is there some sort of study looking at how far down the prospect list you can go before the chances of someone ever being worth anything to a team fizzles out (again outside of the rare event)?

I don't know about the study and I doubt anyone will end up too upset over 2 guys whose upside is late-inning reliever. But also, probably a better chance they have some semblance of a major league career over a starting pitcher or barely top 10 position player, since they are relievers with allegedly good stuff.

if that makes any sense....

the ceiling may not be as high, but the floor is probably higher too. Let's compare to Flaherty who I would probably had around the #10-#12 range. While he still could end up being a decent regular, I could also see him doing absolutely nothing of note in the majors. While Carpenter and Kurcz would surprise me a little if they dont' spend a few years in the pen and quite possibly solid late inning relievers.

Yeah the reliever thing makes sense for sure and I've always felt overpaying for relievers vs getting them from the minors is a bad idea. I've just seen a lot of prospect lists where I've felt like once you get past #10 or something what's the point in talking about them. I'd just be interested to see an actual look at what those prospect #s tend to mean relative to the majors.

Doesn't this seem to suggest that the Cubs might be getting a player back that they sort of like, albeit not a player with a very high ceiling? If that's not the case, I don't understand what's going on.

you would think, but who the fuck knows at this point.

Aside from baseball reasons, it would be AWESOME if the Cubs got a guy worth a damn. Not because it would make the Cubs better, but ultimately JUST to watch that BoSox journalist have an epic spaz-out! Here's hoping whoever we get is a player for that reason alone . . .

top 20 list of Red Sox prospects

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/12/13/263...

whomever the Cubs get, Nick Cafardo will complain about it.

T-O-R starting pitcher prospects have more value than do late-inning relief prospects, BUT, a bullpen is VERY important, and it should be possible to build the pen on the cheap from within the organization.

However, after trading Andrew Cashner to SD for Anthony Rizzo and sending Chris Carpenter to Boston as the front-end of Theo Compensation, Aaron Kurcz, Kevin Rhoderick, and Tony Zych were the three young near-MLB ready power RH relievers left in the Cubs system.

So losing both Chris Carpenter AND Aaron Kurcz as Theo Compensation is not good.

Unless we get a power pitcher relief prospect in return from Boston?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 6:38am — SheffieldCornelia

Unless we get a power pitcher relief prospect in return from Boston?

=================================

SHEF: That would be nice, but I kind of doubt it.

The report was that there are three players on the list, and the Red Sox get to choose the player.

That makes it sound to me like the PTBNL might be a choice between the three LHRP on the Sox 40-man roster who are out of minor league options:

Felix Doubront
Andrew Miller
Franklin Morales

And the Cubs get whichever one doesn't make the Red Sox Opening Day roster (which would make it the Red Sox "choice," in that sense).

Agreed. We ended up giving away an awful lot of MPH for a suit.

Would you rather still have Hendry's sports shirt?

That thing was outrageously expensive at times.

I'll happily bet anyone that Theo/Hoyer have a greater impact on the Cubs winning over the next 5-10 years than Carpenter and Kurcz though.

Nonetheless, the Red Sox certainly got 2 useful players out of it.

I agree--I'm happy to shake up the front office and try to get the best guys available there, and I'm thrilled to see the organization take the idea of rebuilding seriously.

This seems like a damn good return on a GM, though. Will the Cubs ever be sending some sort of compensation for Hoyer?

list has been agreed upon, supposed to be taken care of by end of spring training.

"low level minor leaguer" seems to be the only clue, something about not being on the 40-man

to minor league deal

That makes it sound to me like the PTBNL might be a choice between the three LHRP on the Sox 40-man roster who are out of minor league options:

Felix Doubront
Andrew Miller
Franklin Morales
========
Can you provide any insights as to these three? I know most about Andrew Miller because he was in the Cameron Maybin-Miggy Cabrera trade and was supposedly a high end prospect at that time (but has underachieved ever since). I kind of remember Morales from his days with the Rockies. Hopefully Doubront doesn't remind me of Felix Heredia.

hanging out at the SABR conference, apparently grew up a Royals fan.

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  • I am right there with you closing in on 60.

    I don't care that much about "mortgaging" one player who is not only blocked by two guys, but is not ready to hit the majors for at least a couple years.

    There is no reason why this team, this year, can't have a real shot at something NONE of us have experienced.

    Further, I don't feel that even if they fall short that they have ruined their farm system.

    I have made my opinion clear here, with others, Warren was shit on the Cubs save one spot start.

    The E-Man 21 sec ago view
  • Trading for Warren, Warren sucking, getting Warren back for Chapman plus 3 prospects, sounds like Revenge of The Yankees on the former Boston executive. Old rivalries never die.

    I pray to the heavens above Chapman doesn't suck for some reason, or he'll be booed out of town faster than a Todd Hundley revival meeting.

    Old and Blue 8 min ago view
  • I'm kind of nostalgic for the Schwarber-for-Miller rumors.

    Brick 19 min 44 sec ago view
  • This offseason, after some ridiculous playoff run and Chapman saving every game from here until the end of the postseason striking out 27/9innings, I welcome anyone to quote this thread and call me a dummy: I hate this trade, and my hate is 2 parts Chapman makes this team less likeable and 1 part that's a ridiculous overpay for 30 regular season innings and, at tops, 10 postseason innings. Already hoping they don't extend him.

    Charlie 21 min 33 sec ago view
  • btw...Thanks AZ Phil. I'm really enjoying your take on this trade.

    Cubster 43 min 52 sec ago view
  • I'm a bit disappointed on the Warren experience. Essentially they gave Castro away for crickets (OK, well they signed Zobrist with the Castro salary dump). Otherwise one might look at it as Chapman for Castro and our #1 minors prospect (Torres) + McKinney/Crawford. Seems pricey for a 2 month rental. We will see if this price tag is that steep in a relative way based on the remaining deadline deals for relievers.

    Cubster 44 min 20 sec ago view
  • Yep. One of the great things about this team (in addition to being really good at baseball) was the "likable" factor. Feels a bit different now. Who knows...maybe Chapman will be the king of the dance parties.

    billybucks 53 min 9 sec ago view
  • Here are some possible corresponding minor league moves we might see in the aftermath  of the Chapman trade: 

    SOUTH BEND to MYRTLE BEACH: OF Donnie Dewees and INF Bryant Flete  

    EUGENE to SOUTH BEND: OF Robert Garcia and INF Vimael Machin 

    There is really no reason to replace Billy McKinney at Tennessee because both Chris Coghlan and Jorge Soler are doing their rehab at Tennessee.  

    And there are plenty of pitchers at Iowa. No need to replace Warren at AAA. .  

    Arizona Phil 1 hour 13 min ago view
  • I am 70 years old. The Cubs last played in the World Series in 1945. I was born in 1946. I hate to lose a prospect like Torres, but when the opportunity is there to get that World Series ring, you go for it. This was the idea in stock piling all this young talent. I would like to see Reddick added now and the Cubbies should be done.

    Hagsag 1 hour 43 min ago view
  • I would expect Richard to accept an optional assignment because based on how he's played this season, there is a decent chance that he won't find work elsewhere. Rather stay and potentially get a ring. Same goes for Coghlan since he's struggled mightily this year.

    Edwards should not go down. He's pitched very well and Maddon is very impressed with him. I would expect Grimm to go down for Cahill so he can get back on track (he's pitched better in July, but he's not getting enough appearances).

    chitownmvp01 1 hour 47 min ago view
  • chitownmvp01: Indeed Clayton Richard would seem to be odd man out once Chapman reports, but Richard might accept a minor league assignment if he is promised a return to Chicago on 9/1 when MLB Active List rosters expand (Richard has minor league ioptions left).

    Arizona Phil 1 hour 50 min ago view
  • The only player in the deal that would cause me a second thought is Gleyber Torres.

    McKinney and Crawford are decent prospects but both are redundant/replaceable in the system and Warren was really only a middle-reliever or #6 starter, so to me it's really just Torres for Chapman.

    Arizona Phil 2 hours 10 min ago view
  • There is no Comp pick for players traded mid-season. 2+ months of Chapman is it.

    mbauer 2 hours 13 min ago view
  • to get one of the best you have to give up one/some of your best...but it's a bit painful to watch the system's best prospect walk for any 2-3 month rental, especially one that's not an everyday player.

    crunch 2 hours 15 min ago view
  • I assume Chapman will replace Richard on the roster, but who goes down when Cahill gets activated? Maybe Grimm?

    And when Soler and Coghlan get healthy, how do they fit them on the roster when they're ready to be activated?

    chitownmvp01 2 hours 18 min ago view
  • We are giving up a lot, but it's not like we're trading Addison Russell for 2+ months of Jason Hammel. When impact players become available, they are going to cost you. The other bids could also have been high.

    Having Chapman as a rental is potentially less disruptive than having him come in with an extension in place. 

    CTSteve 2 hours 20 min ago view