Game 24 Thread - Samardzija vs. Arroyo

Same lineups that were suppose to play yesteday.

Reds Cubs
Cozart, SS *DeJesus, RF
Stubbs, CF
*Campana, CF
*Votto, 1B
Castro, SS
Phillips, 2B
*LaHair, 1B
*Bruce, RF
Soriano, LF
Rolen, 3B
*Stewart, 3B
Heisey, LF
*DeWitt, 2B
Hanigan, C
Soto, C
Arroyo, P
Samardzija, P

Castro picked off second base after a two-out double in the first, so good to know that some things in life are consistent.

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Comments

...another lahero homer...solo, top 2nd

Am I wrong for thinking that he might be good trade bait? If he is still performing ridiculously well by the trade deadline and somebody offers some top prospect, should we take it? Or should we gamble that this isn't just an outlier?

Dude's been simply crushing the ball for 18 mos. and he looks like a ballplayer to me. Super tough call ....

if he's going to play a position most of the time, be it 1st/RF/LF, someone has to go or he's got to start facing lefties.

he could end up being a 300-400ab a year DH/spot-starter if rizzo forces the issue and no one gets injured/traded/cut.

You absolutely trade LaHair for a legit top prospect, especially at any position of scarcity in the system (starting pitching would be great). Let's say he's just hitting his prime. How much of his prime does he probably have left, especially as much as he K's and as slow as he is. He has legit old man skills and he's bordering on actually being an old man. He's awesome and I love what he's doing, but he'd be much more valuable to a team that needs a super cheap slugger for the next 2-3 years than he is to a big market team that needs long term solutions and/or legit stars, especially at positions like 1B and LF.

how much is he worth without the 150-200ab's a year sitting vs lefties, though?

that's the tough part to handicap...especially given how cheap he should be in 2013 vs expected production (even if he just shades what he's doing now). there's so many +'s and a few glaring -'s.

ian stewart line drive homer to RF...about time he got one.

2-0, top 4th. woos.

Might'a been a mental error by LaHair there . . .

When the Cubs want to make a decision on bring up Rizzo then it really comes down to DeJesus or Soriano.....Soriano isn't going any where so DeJesus is either traded or released when that decision is made.

I really like Campana and his speed in CF, LaHair in RF and Rizzo at 1b.

LaHair has more value to us as a cheap hitter than he does as a trade chip. You trade him your not gonna get anyone remotely close to what his production value is to the current team. And if we play him everyday and he flames out, ohhhh well, no big deal no one can say he was rushed or wasn't given his shot. We can just as easily hand him an everyday gig as we can release him, with 0 consequences for the long term future of the franchise.

But before any decisions are made about Rizzo being called up, i want to know what LaHair can do against lefties. For a shitty team, i see no reason why we can't find out now, stop protecting him.

given his age, suck, and years of no one being interested in him...soriano might actually get released.

worse has been done by lesser teams, but if soriano doesn't "wake up" before the season ends (or before) he could finally get cut loose even with the sick money owed.

right now the only thing he's got going for him is being healthy and capable of hitting 20-30 HRs...if he can't even push 20 HRs he's looking like an anchor.

LaHair has more value to us as a cheap hitter than he does as a trade chip.

This coming from the guy that lashed out on how much he would suck.

Funny how you never admit your shit.

I will agree the guy is not going to be invited to Cooperstown, but the fucking AAAA diatribe you spewed was just bullshit.

He will have value to another MLB team, if not the Cubs.

Dude how many times do i have to beat a dead horse? If you can't follow a fucking conversation don't get mad at me.

I will just present Tyler Colvin, Felix Pie, Neifi, Macias and on down the line who Cubs fans got infatuated over because of very brief periods of success for very different reasons.

Colvin and Pie were both extremly flawed and i took alot of shit for doubting their early success. One thing i have always said is i have endless amounts of time wait out the bandwagon fans who flee like rats when Colvin and Pie fail. But i speak in probabilities, because i wan't to see them be good its just i don't see it happening.

I will give Lahair this he has more talent than Colvin and Pie but without the pedigree. But he still has some glaring flaws that the league will expose. The only question is can he adjust and we have not gotten to that point yet in his career.

You forgot Matt Murton in that list.

I was a huge Murton, Choi, and Dubois fan....i think Dubois made me realize no strike zone judgement and awesome power isn't enough to make it.

"Dubois made me realize," etc.

227 ML PAs don't tell you anything about a hitter--except perhaps that righty-hitting 1B/LF/DH types have a very tiny window for success.

It's probably a good idea not to pay too much attention to them in the first place.

Dubois had glaring faults in the minors i refused to acknowledge. I wanted him to be good for the sake of being good.

Brooks Keschnick

There were people who were infatuated with Neifi and Macias? Seems to me they were whipping boys, Macias in particular.

What success did Pie have? I mean, he did get 250 at bats...over 2 seasons..and jerked around by the Cubs...

You would be surprised at how many commentators were gushing about Neifi and how a change of scenery did him wonder, blah blah blah.

I argued back and forth about not trusting 1 month vs his entire career. Cubs fans are predictable in one area......its doesn't matter how crappy a player is, or how at the end of a career a player is, if he flashes 1 good month Cubs fans are falling all over themselves to get a longer look at said player. It it never ends happily.

But when your signed to a 3 year deal it only took a few months into that deal and costing DLee an MVP did people start to land on the hate bus for him. Many were just shocked into silence about a sub .300 OBP player returning to be a sub .300 OBP player.

there was no one infatuated with Neifi in a good way, it was just fun when he was going nuts in April that one year.

DeWitt did something good with the glove, yeah I'm shocked too.

amazing 4-6-3 he started....

Keith just dropped an F-bomb on WGN that only got partially bleeped.

In reference to Arroyo's sidearm action on the 3-1 to DeWitt: "That's what makes him a fuc" ... dead air where they dropped the bleep.

haha

Soto not sucking today...

Man. Days like today make me think they could compete next year . . . What's weird is Shark's blossoming culod actually change the whole damn game plan.

If he becomes a freakishly dazzling number two, that makes Garza a keeper to me (I know I know), and Maholm is coming around, with Dempster, Volstad, Wells, T. Wood etc.

That means that next year they would have to acquire 2 monster bats and a closer. Aaa ah to dream . . .

And I don't think they trade LaHair. No way the more I think about it...dude is a crusher, and he looks for real. Even when he comes back t earth, even with a few silly left handed pitcher at bats, and even with his K's. He really looks at home and like aN MLB regular. He's our Josh Hamilton . . . (prays)

I mean since we didn't keep the real josh hamilton

But without the talent, alcohol and outfield chops.

marmol effective and drama-free for the save.

cubs record: 9-15

Was Samardzija more brilliant or lucky? Looks like he got a lot of fly outs early on, then reversed that and got mostly groundouts, and he was cruising on pretty few pitches. Impressions anyone?

decent job locating everything and results followed. he may have given up another run a time or 2 with bad luck, but he was never looking bad or under pressure.

I watched the game. He seemed to have total command. Ahead of the count til the late innings. Cubs played great D. Soriano made a very key play on Votto opposite field liner in the 7th.

Both teams had their fair share of hard hit balls right at'em but Shark was in control, not lucky.

Thanks, folks! Didn't get to see this game, but Ninja's is among the few really interesting story lines I'd like to follow this year (Ninja, LaHair, Volstad, Dolis, Stewart probably being some of the most interesting to pay attention to in terms of their future values being big question marks).

Was hitting 96 in the 8th, too

Plus for the record, I believe LaHair could have gone to second for a 3-6-3 double play if he'd thought it through ahead of time and been prepared, then a shutout would have been possible. I don't remember who was batting but I don't believe it was a speedster. If it was I would understand, but it was a one hopper right to LaHair and could have been a 3-6-3 instead of a no-force 3-6-3-6-3-6-3-6-3-3-3-3-3-6-6-3-6 or whatever the fuck it was that let the run in . . .

Things that make me say hmmmmm...

from some Brewer sites:
The Brewers learned that first baseman Mat Gamel would need surgery for a torn ACL in his right knee. Then, left fielder Ryan Braun left the game in the sixth inning after limping off the field.

Ron Roeneke On Ryan Braun:
No, he's got a tight Achilles tendon that he felt a little yesterday on his stolen base.

I think that's how it started for Mark Prior when HE got off steroids as well ... Achilles right? ;)

I-Cubs being three hit through the top of the 8th, Memphis ahead 2-1.

Valbuena with a solo HR in the 8th. Earlier, Cardenas with a single and Rizzo with a double. Nobody has a walk. That's it so far for offense.

Casey Coleman only pitched 3.1 innings, 49 pitches, 2 runs. Not sure why he left.

I am not only the president of the lahair (fan)club for men, I'm also a member.

applause

Big Z vs Zito, kinda expected Sesame Street to be sponsoring the game, with the fish off to an early 2-0 lead.

Jered Weaver no-hitter happened.

-edit- whoops, not meant to be a reply.

7 shutout innings for Z, up 2-0.

2.53 ERA on the season.

...and here comes heath bell

...and now it's 2-1, man on 1st, 0 outs

H. Bell trying to blow it though

2b, 1B scores a run

0 outs and Posey up to pinch-hit

corners, still 0 out...and h.bell is yanked.

yow.

and Posey singles, runners on corners and Ozzie pulls Bell for Cishek.

Damn.

RECAPS IN STEREO!

SAFETY SQUEEZE TIE!

the no hitter aside, yet including it, it's been a nice night of baseball. 3 walkoff homer games, too.

and Z remains winless

Cishek gets a K, but Giants tie it up on a safety squeeze.

FC, infield single and now Theriot up with bases loaded

-edit- guess what? Theriot failed. extra innings.

and there goes geraldo sauve stanton ruining my late night baseball with a solo homer in the top 10th.

i could go for a 15-20 inning game.

..denied...MIA wins.

Gotta wonder if Dolis is being groomed as closer. Marmol was good tonight and might be worth something in the morning...

swap his K/BB and i'd be more interested.

he is the default setup man right now, though.

who's wondering that?

8 BB/3 K on the year, not really a formula for success.

might as well pegged Justin Berg as a closer after 2009.

Dolis would be a pretty sweet two-inning reliever with that sinker. I keep wondering why they put him in after Samardzija, since they have such a similar repertoire, but I guess it's because Samardzija often exits his game with small leads and they don't have a lot of pitchers they can trust. Plus, maybe Sveum figures that a power sinker's been getting the guys out, why not throw another power sinker at them.

At the beginning of the season my hopes for 80 wins or so were based on a few things. One, Samardzija actually looking like he did in spring, with a nice -- whatever that is, a split finger or something that drops off the table a bit, and some kind of handle on his control issues. Two, LaHair keeping up the hitting. Three, Castro getting his errors under control and hitting for some power. Two out of three so far, but it's early, and it's hard to know what things will look like as the season progresses. As for the rest of the pitching staff, ehhh, even Volstad looks okay to me as a fifth starter. Garza, Dempster, and a good Samardzija could get us to 80, especially if Campana somehow keeps hitting.

The trade debate on LaHair is interesting. I don't trade him unless I get something rock solid back, like a prime prospect. I can see teams knocking on the door at about half time, and I would hope the Cubs will hold out for something really, really good.

The whole question about whether LaHair is an outlier to me has been answered pretty much for me by his approach to the plate and the way he can hit some stuff that pitchers are clearly trying to fool him with. I've seen him reach down and swat low inside curve balls and fastballs and sliders and reach out and swat low outside stuff, and lay off stuff that the Sorianos of the world swing at every time. When I've seen him strike out, and I have to say I haven't watched anywhere near as many games as a lot of you have, I'm not seeing what I consider "bad" strikeouts. He'll sometimes take a called third strike. I'm okay with that with a power hitter with his capacity. He also often just swings at a tempting pitch, and just misses it. That's pretty normal for a good hitter.

I love this guy's approach at the plate. I don't think he's an outlier at all. He's got tremendous batting skills. If he's traded, he should command a good return, or it shouldn't be done.

Campana, on the other hand, I don't even get, but he is, without a doubt, the only meek hitting player I've ever seen that I go out of my way to watch. He is actually getting some solid contact, too, which is weird because he really looked awful up there last year, and even when I saw him play against Round Rock this year. But now he's talking about stealing 100 bases (which means he needs to get on at least 101 times, assuming he'll get caught stealing once), and if he's that much of a believer, fuck it, so am I.

Maybe I haven't quite given up on this season yet after all. I'm not expecting a playoff appearance, but it would be nice to at least challenge for a .480-.500 record.

I'm the optimistic bastard who put $50 on the over for Cubs wins this year for some of those same reasons. And because i'm a rube. So at this point I just want them to get to 74 wins so I'm not laughed at when I head back to Vegas in the fall.

I'm still ignoring popular opinion and even hard facts... I believe the Cubs are better than everyone thinks they are. They have a solid chance at 3rd in the division.

Sigh.

Agreed. I think they make the playoffs next year.

I assume this is sarcasm, but you just never know these days.

Nope. Unless they totally flame out in FA I expect them to be one of the 6 NL playoff teams in 2013.

Actually, that's the standard I am holding the TheoCorp to. I'm not going to just mindlessly assume these guys are gonna be saviors, not after watching McFail bring his Twins reputation to the Cubs and killing us with Ed Lynch.

Theo and Co sound great, I have a lot of hope, but from a commenting perspective, not that they give a damn, I'm gonna hold their feet to the fire. NEXT year is not a rebuilding year, not for a top market team. I'm giving them a pass this year, but only because of extenuating circumstances.

6?

5!

"I'm a rube" -- laugh out loud

Nice to see a story like that with the Cubs for a change. Now if we could only talk Sveum out of the platoon thing, and see what happens there.

Heisey CF, Harris 3B, Votto 1B, Phillips 2B, Bruce RF, Ludwick LF, Mesoraco C, Valdez SS, Bailey P

vs.

DeJesus RF, Barney 2B, Castro SS, LaHair 1B, Soriano LF, Stewart 3B, Johnson CF, Soto C, Dempster P

awaiting roster move for Dempster

Dempster and Wood activated, Maine and Wells optioned

Tough break for Maine. He's pitched well.

Yeah, I don't know what more he could've done to stick... I guess he'll just have to wait until they decide Wood is done (next week?)...

Wood activated. That made me giggle.

Priceless

Where do people think the Cub's top three starters (Garza, Dempster, Samardziga) rank?

Garza's a 1b type, I think--a #1 starter, but not an elite #1 starter. Dempster's a solid #2 until age takes him down. Samardzija looks (so far) like a good #3 who could dominate on some days and faceplant on others, which is way better than he looked in previous years. I feel much better about the Cubs rotation now that Samardzija has more had more than one successful outing. I mean, Sergio Mitre even had a good game once.

LaBomb.

Bob: "He's got Easy Power"

LaBomb!

When should we start calling LaHair the savior?

Ought to make our first baseman and right fielder trade last names.

True, but I have heard that you don't mess with DeJesus.

http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/20...

Kung Fu Panda broken hamate bone....

Jeff Baker for Lincecum sounds perfectly fair.

I would be fucking ecstatic with Baker for nothing but salary relief.

and Soto goes deep...

3-0 Cubs.

gets fucked over on strike 3 call in 6th with bases loaded. shame.

LaHair vs. Chapman was fun. Chapman ultimately won on a 9-pitch AB with a K of course.

Stewart vs. Chapman not nearly as epic, K's on 4 pitches.

Nine hits so far, but only three runs -- all on solo HRs. Only one walk. The new Cubs Way looks awfully familiar.

Seriously? That's insane. It's their first such game of the year . . .

Marmol, 1st batter, walk on 5 pitches.

Ruh, roh.

back to back walks.

{bangs head against door}

i'm meltinggggg....

(puddle of goo is all that remains)

Marmol is a puddle of poo.

Awful. Not sure why Sveum brings in another reliever with control problems that also has trouble striking guys out.

*edit* well I guess bringing in the sinker baller for a double play might have been a good idea

Ok....so Marmol is awful. What happened with Stewart's error?

5-3 double play but Stewart forgot to get the ball first

well that escalated quickly

Lol....it really jumped up a notch.

Dolis gets the groundball DP. Still a chance for extra innings.

God I fucking hate Marmol and Marmol. Stewart is close behind.

Feel for Demp top. This has happened to him three x already.

Marmol comes in with a 3 run lead and walks the first two batters.

Raise your hand if you are at all surprised.

Theo, put your damn hand down!

Dempster 0-1 with a 0.95 ERA. If he stays in Chicago, I will be amazed and assume that his daughter cannot receive anywhere near as good health care anywhere else.

opens up dictionary to "Cubbery"

finds recap of this game.

What is the point of keepig marmol as closer?

He's going to suddenly learn how to throw strikes? Teams will go up and start swinging at bad pitches? Some MLB team will lose their collective mind and trade for him?

Other, younger relievers cannot possibly be worse than Marmol. Cut him loose, pay him the money and let some kid earning next to nothing try to close.

Looks like they will now. I just think they knew he sucked and were trying to get him a little success and maybe be a trade chip. But I think he just Latroy Hawkins'd his way into shitsville.

can Sveum honestly trot Marmol out again in the 9th inning?

Just say no.

or tell the woodsman to put snow white's heart in a box and bring it back to the queen

to be fair to Marmol and he certainly deserves plenty of the blame, but Stewart whiffed on a sure-thing double play.

whole different scenario with man on 2nd and 2 outs and 0 runs.

I'm glad the Cubs are realizing Marmol is too wild to be a legit closer during a rebuilding year. It would be maddening to see games that matter frittered away while Marmol threw ball after ball putting guys on base for free.

ask and ye shall receive

Sveum considering Dolis or Russell for closing duties, not Kerry.

and this is supposed to help how? =p

there's a guy in AAA with 5.2ip 1h 2bb 10k...oh, that's his majors stats but he's in the minors now. sigh.

@dschoenfield
@jonahkeri I know you're not completely unbiased here, but how many wins do you think Maddon is worth per season?

@jonahkeri
@dschoenfield Impossible Q to answer since Maddon gets data from the smart behind the scenes guys. Of course he's willing (eager!) to use it

@dschoenfield If the question is, how many wins do the Rays get from doing "Rays things"...at least 3-4 IMO, and that might be conservative.

wtf is a "rays things"?

...aside from the extreme shifts they employ on defense.

When does Marmol come off the books?

Give Marmol credit. He was doing his best to make it easier for the FO to make a roster move. He was just one day too late for Maine.

Marmol, the albatross. :)

Who's having a worse day Marmol or Tim Welke?

YIkes!

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/05/03/ti...

What makes me sad about this kind of missed call is that Helton didn't correct the umpire, or more to the point that people will think that it is crazy to even expect that he would.

last thing he's going to do is show up an ump on a play that wouldn't benefit his team.

it's the right thing to do, but i'd be far more shocked to see it happen for reasons other than and before moral reasons.

I know, but it still makes me sad.

Honestly he was in the absolute perfect spot to have no depth perception as to Helton's foot etc.

Perhaps he was out of position, but you have to blame the system and the rest of that umpire crew for not having the guts, or precedent, to be able to overturn it. The whole damn crew should be shamed, not just Welke.

lulz...g.blanco (SF) tripping over his own legs (still made to 3rd with no throw).

uh oh.

m.rivera removed from the field via cart with an injured left leg after crashing into the OF wall shagging flies during BP.

oh man...dat knee. he went down hard and in lots of pain.

that could be 2012 for him.

"twisted right (not left, oops) knee" ...MRI scheduled later tonight.

and a marmol trading opportunity opens up :)

You know - I actually think as impossible as this seems, that it is possible. I mean we would pay his salary and get a non prospect. But you never know . . . Maybe Garza & Marmol for those two AAA starters nobody here wants. /ducks/ sadly, I am serious.

david robertson says "naw."

they have a somewhat useful soriano, too...he may end up getting saves though robertson deserves it.

they're paying Rafael Soriano a lot of money for just this scenario and they have Robertson of course.

maybe in July if they're looking for another set-up man and Marmol gets better.

video of Mariano getting hurt

http://espn.go.com/new-york/video/clip?id=788...

and before the "why is he shagging fly balls" questions arise, he's been doing it his entire career and hasn't been on the D.L. in 9 years.

mark fiderich says hello

WTF?! My fantasy team keeps getting better...

at what point does bryce harper having calls he's involved with going "not his way" become the umps letting a kid with a history of authority/seniority issues know who runs the game out there?

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article....

Peavy's surgeon declares surgery a success!!!! Obviously not Mark Prior's surgeon.

H. Simpson with 4 shutout innings in relief for Daytona, 4 K, 0 BB, 1 H after M. Loosen gave up 3 ER in 3 IP. T. Zych in for the save.

Espn quoting Girardi, that Mo has torn ACL.

damn

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