The Cubs 2008 MVP
Be sure to vote on the poll below...
Now that the Dodgers have been rightfully ousted and played like the team I expected them to play like (bad defense, no one hitting besides Manny, overrated starting pitching), I can go about acknowledging baseball again. I know, sounds like a bunch of sour grapes and I don't really care. The Dodgers weren't a good team, the Cubs just beat themselves and I have always had a healthy distaste for the Dodgers and their fans.
Before I start looking forward to 2009 later in the week, let's take a look at 2008 and revisit the Cubs MVP talk. Bold indicates team leader...
| Name |
WARP-1 |
OPS |
League OPS @ Position |
HR |
RBI |
R |
| Soto | 7.0 | .868 | 715 | 23 | 86 | 66 |
| DeRosa | 8.0 |
.857 | 746 for 2b/788 for RF | 21 | 87 | 103 |
| Ramirez | 6.6 | .898 | 776 | 27 | 111 | 97 |
There is a write-in option in the poll as well, so you may want to also consider the following. Soriano led the team in HR's with 29 and Theriot lead the team in batting average (.309) and OBP (.387).
I imagine they'll be some sentiment for the Jim Edmonds/Reed Johnson
platoon. Combined they were good for a 6.5 WARP-1, 22 HR's, 85 RBI's
and 86 Runs scored and a rough back-of-the-envolepe batting line of
.294/.382/.506.
| Name | WARP-1 | ERA |
W-L |
HLD |
SV |
K/9 |
K:BB |
| Dempster | 7.6 | 2.96 | 17-6 | -- | -- | 8.31 | 2.16 |
| Marmol | 3.9 | 2.68 | 2-4 | 30 | 7 | 11.75 | 2.78 |
A reliever, no matter how dominating, isn't likely to get much love in any cumulative stat, but they are counted on when it supposedly matters most. Reader "Real Neal" did the legwork for me (although I swear I was going to mention it), but here are the WPA numbers for some of the Cubs.
Marmol 3.77
Ramirez 3.31
Dempster 2.37 (-1.17 due to batting)
Lee 1.81
DeRosa 1.80
Harden 1.65
Edmonds 1.63
Soriano 1.41
Soto .95
Theriot -.22
I usually don't get too caught up in who meant more to the team or who defied expectations when it comes to my MVP vote. To me, it's pretty much a rough formula of 95% whomever had the best season statiscally and 5% for everything else. On that note, I don't like to put all my stock in one number like WARP-1, but a range of stats that cover offense and defense. Right off the bat, I'm going to knock Marmol and Ramirez out of the race. When you're only contributing 6% of a team's innings, I don't think you can afford to slip much and Marmol had that brutal stretch in late June/early July. It was a small hiccup in his season in retrospect, but he wasn't nearly overwhelming enough after that for me to truly consider him. Ramirez had another solid season with the bat, arguably one of his best as a Cub, but the 22 runs he saved with his glove last year looks to be the anomaly, as he gave back three this season. A matter of fact, he's put up negative fielding numbers at third base every year of his career except last season.
That leaves DeRosa, Soto and Dempster and I'm pretty tempted to wuss out here and call it a three way tie. I think statistically there's solid arguments for each, so that means it's time to argue everyone' favorite topic, intangibles. Soto seems to be maturing into the field general quite nicely as the pitching staff seemed to have nothing but good things to say about him. DeRosa' s defensive flexibility helped the Cubs overcome injuries and ineffectiveness. Dempster's remarkable consistency helped lead one of the better pitching staffs in the league.
In the end I gave my vote to Geovany Soto. I think it's harder to find a catcher who can hit and not be a disaster behind the plate (paging Michael Barrett) than it would be to find replacements for what Dempster and DeRosa did last year.
And he has the most important intangible...great hair.
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Comments
A brief glimpse into the 2009 offseason plans
on Mon, 10/20/2008 - 7:46pm Permalink
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=2...
to infer from that article...
Dempster will be staying, Kerry might stay as long as he isn't expecting a very long or expensive contract.
Also, everything was Fukudome's fault.
talks about Pie being out of options and finding left-handed bats.
Re: The Cubs 2008 MVP
on Mon, 10/20/2008 - 8:26pm Permalink
I like Soto.
I'm glad he has a great supporting cast, I hope it never comes down to him being the best hitter on the team.
Catcher is such a wear a tear position.
Am I nuts?
Re: The Cubs 2008 MVP
on Mon, 10/20/2008 - 11:39pm Permalink
Am I nuts?
Yes. What does that have to do with anything? :)
Re: The Cubs 2008 MVP
on Tue, 10/21/2008 - 1:31am Permalink
Geo Soto will never be the best hitter on a championship caliber team.
Re: The Cubs 2008 MVP
on Tue, 10/21/2008 - 2:24am Permalink
He shouldn't be. If he was then Hendry's not doing his job.
Re: The Cubs 2008 MVP
on Tue, 10/21/2008 - 8:05pm Permalink
Quick, someone tell the Devil Rays they don't have a good enough hitter to be a championship caliber team!
Re: The Cubs 2008 MVP
on Tue, 10/21/2008 - 11:40pm Permalink
Quick someone tell neal that they do!
Re: The Cubs 2008 MVP
on Wed, 10/22/2008 - 11:59am Permalink
What the hell does that mean?
Re: The Cubs 2008 MVP
on Wed, 10/22/2008 - 12:28pm Permalink
he's implying that soto would be the best hitter on the rays and that if so, my assertion would be wrong.
Re: The Cubs 2008 MVP
on Wed, 10/22/2008 - 1:17pm Permalink
Ok, now I see. I don't see, but I see.
Re: The Cubs 2008 MVP
on Wed, 10/22/2008 - 1:54pm Permalink
by OPS:
Longoria - .874
Pena - .871
Soto: - .868
when you throw in park and league factors, the Rays do even a little better (OPS+ of 132, 130 compared to 122 for Soto)
Counting stats...
Longoria - 27 HR, 85 RBI, 67 R in 508 PA's drove in 16.2% of runners on base
Pena - 31 HR, 102 RBI, 76 R in 607 PA's drove in 15.8% of runners on base
Soto - 23 HR, 86 RBI, 66 R in 563 PA's, drove in 15.1% of runners on base
close, but the Rays top 2 hitters were definitely a bit better than Soto, although I'd definitely say Soto had the better overall season since those number came from the catching position.
But Chad was just mentioning offense, so he's still got this one....until the next example.
Re: The Cubs 2008 MVP
on Wed, 10/22/2008 - 6:34pm Permalink
If you make Soto the D-Rays DH or 1st basemen - he puts up better numbers in 2008 than those two guys. Regardless, he's approximately as good as those two were, so Chad's ascertion is wrong. I could go back through the years and find examples, but proving Chad wrong is such an easy thing to do, there's no need to put that much effort in.
Re: The Cubs 2008 MVP
on Wed, 10/22/2008 - 7:08pm Permalink
no no no no. You can't do that. He must play catcher only for a direct comparison. If you believe that he would hit better as a position player (perhaps he would) then it would show in the numbers and I wouldn't have made that statement.
Re: The Cubs 2008 MVP
on Wed, 10/22/2008 - 7:53pm Permalink
You said:
"Geo Soto will never be the best hitter on a championship caliber team."
I don't see anything conditional about it saying, while playing catcher.
Re: The Cubs 2008 MVP
on Wed, 10/22/2008 - 8:21pm Permalink
it was conditional on his actual real life statistics. not what stats he 'could' put up.
Re: The Cubs 2008 MVP
on Wed, 10/22/2008 - 7:38pm Permalink
if you'd take soto in the middle of your lineup over longoria going on bat alone...damn.
Re: The Cubs 2008 MVP
on Wed, 10/22/2008 - 7:52pm Permalink
clearly not what Chad was saying though...
but I am sure there is an example somewhere down the line where Soto would have been the best offensive player on a WS team.