TCR Free Agent Frenzy Update

Here's the final entries for the TCR Free Agent Frenzy Contest.

You can view it here or below:

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TCR Contests
Submitted by Rob G. on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 1:10pm
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Comments

Submitted by Mister Whipple
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 1:25pm

Sweet use of embedded Google docs! Nicely done.

Submitted by jacos
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 1:30pm

Thanks, Rob!!!

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 1:45pm

Looks like Wood is going to burn a lot of us.

Submitted by Chad
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 2:02pm

now that is the definition of irony

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 2:16pm

I'm just surprised Rob G. didn't swap out one of these guys for Mark Prior.

Submitted by carlosrubi
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 8:56pm

Only two of us picked him to leave the Cubs? Weird.

Submitted by Chifan
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 2:43pm

Good thing I only had 2 points on Demp. Wood signing with Rangers looks like it could get me a win in this thing if Sabathia doesnt sign with the Yankees.

Submitted by crunch
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 2:58pm

we need some new big cubs news so the dumpster can stop pointing at me on the main page.

Submitted by jacos
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 3:24pm

How about this one-

http://ac4.yt-thm-a01.yimg.com/image/40bb0c7e103ddb7e

Submitted by Rob G.
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 3:30pm

I find it strangely motivating.

Submitted by crunch
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 3:48pm

i just keep thinking of technoviking when i see a blank expressionless pointing dude...im trying to not think about technoviking...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwsntHcWiy4

...some bad language and probably not the least bit funny to anyone not exposed to rave culture. he pulls off the "pointing thing" twice in the 1st half of the video.

and for those that watch...it's some german dude and others at a "counter protest party" to berlin's "Love Parade" in 2000 which has/had lost it's techno roots and is more concerned with horrible progressive trance, big beat, house, and commercial electronic music acts.

Submitted by Brick
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 6:14pm

I take it techno, trance, big beat, house, and electronic are different from each other?

Submitted by crunch
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 6:30pm

yeah, its just subculture semantics.

big beat would be "fat boy slim" type stuff...describing the differences between house, trance, and techno would bore the piss outta ya.

and no, i'm not one of those people (if anyone has run into them) that gets upset when someone calls all electronic music "techno."

Submitted by The Joe
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 6:44pm

My favorite techno music is Moby. That cat can't be beat.

Submitted by Brick
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 6:52pm

I had no idea there were so many iterations.

Oh, and Moby? It's over. NOOOObody listens to techno!!!

Submitted by The Joe
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 6:55pm

I know that's an Eminem reference, but I just want to make things clear: I don't like Moby. I was being hilarious.

Submitted by crunch
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 7:01pm

it can get really weird when you get into the lesser popular sub-genres.

this is one. speedcore...it's umm...well people make a living at it....amazingly. people will go to places where DJs and live acts play this stuff for 8-12 hours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqjyQbZ-WZg

Submitted by Chad
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 7:44pm

Dammit brick i was going to post that!

you forgot the "you're too old" part too

booooooooooooooooooo!

Submitted by dB
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 1:30pm

you forgot IDM (intelligent dance music) like Mouse on Mars. Kind of ironic since none of it actually is.

The stereotypes are funny to me though. Ravers in petroleum based clothing, visors, glow stick waiving ecstasy tweakers.

Submitted by John Beasley
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 4:07pm

http://blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/sportsbeacon/...

Submitted by Matt
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 7:19pm

Wasn't there points last season where Kerry Wood had the whole Technoviking Goatee-man-chu thing going on? If only Sweet Lou would bring him and upside down bottle of Wah-tah!

Submitted by Rob G.
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 7:23pm

http://homerderby.com/archives/2986

Billy Corgan:
If … If … IF … the Cubs did have a chance this last year that just passed … Fuckin’ Eddie Vedder killed that shit dead. Last I checked Eddie ain’t living here, Okay?

Eddie ain’t living here to write a song about my fuckin’ team.

Submitted by crunch
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 7:34pm

bwhahahaha.

Submitted by Chad
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 7:46pm

the only problem is that Eddie Vedder is awesome. Corgan and Pumpkins blow chunks.

If you're so great then you write a song about the Cubs you bald John Kitna lookalike!

Submitted by Brick
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 11:29pm

I got the impression that Vedder's song is actually from '07. I can't remember why... Does he say something on the live recording? Was it labeled 2007? I could be wrong.

Submitted by dB
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 1:37pm

when did Eddie Vedder become awesome?

Submitted by The Joe
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 1:44pm

About the same time that Jeremy began speaking in class.

Submitted by dB
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 1:56pm

I don't know why this would seem fresh to anyone. Pumpkins and Pearl Jam have had a media battle for years going back to the 90's heyday of when they were at the top of their respective games making mediocre music targeted for people in my demo. Don't you remember all of those Pumpkins/Hole jokes made on Pearl Jam for doing group hugs on stage and that kind of fodder? What I remember most about the forgettable "grunge" era was the time when Billy Corgan was on Sports Channel's Sports Reporters program with Rick Telander kissing his ass the entire time with Bill Gleason blowing stoagie smoke in his face for an hour. That was pull the covers over your head bad-great TV.

Submitted by The Joe
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 2:07pm

I never liked Smashing Pumpkins. Way to whiny for me. I didn't like Pearl Jam then, but I appreciate some of their stuff a little more now.

That feud was nothing compared to that epic Eminem-Moby feud. Seriously, Moby? That's who you choose to feud with?

Big-Pac...Dre-Dupree...Jay-Nas. Man these rappers need to chill the fuck out.

Ja-Rule looked like one of those child body-builders.

Submitted by Chad
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 4:15pm

horrible call.

PJ is the best band since, probably, Gun N' Roses.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 4:25pm

Sort of like saying Caesar Izturis is the best shorstop since Neifi Perez.

Submitted by Chad
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 7:15pm

i can't imagine what you think is good.

Guns N' Roses was one of the greatest hard rock bands ever.

Submitted by dB
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 4:51pm

seriously? As an Indiana native I'm embarrassed that Axel Rose is from my homestate.

Submitted by Tito
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 9:48am

"Guns N' Roses was one of the greatest hard rock bands ever."

This is where you should've stopped.

Submitted by The Joe
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 4:53pm

"...since, probably, Gun N' Roses."

Pearl Jam kindly requests that you do not defend them.

Submitted by crunch
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 4:58pm

eddie vedder asked me to reply to this thread for him since he's busy writing a song about how ticketmaster sucks.

quote: "mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble. mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble."

Submitted by dB
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 4:55pm

actually Vedder is busy running to his next set of 50 interviews for the pen & mic club, hang with Rodman at the Crowbar, then he's going to complain about all the attention. Then he'll mark the calendar for the next time he's going to appear in the booth with Len & Bob and pull his faux-too cool for the room stance.

Submitted by Chad
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 7:14pm

Guns N' Roses is probably the greatest American rock band in history. Only the Doors or the Grateful Dead can compare.

Submitted by The Joe
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 7:30pm

You apparently haven't heard of one Hootie and the Blowfish.

Ok, but seriously: The Beach Boys, Bruce Springsteen and the E-Street Band, The Eagles, Aerosmith, Van halen, Jimi Hendrix Experience, Metallica, The Allman Brothers, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Nirvana, Rage Against the Machine, CCR, The Velvet Underground more than 'compare'.

Submitted by Chad
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 8:04pm

horrid list.

let's take some crap right off the list:

Aerosmith, Red Hot Chili Peppers. Bam gone.

no way on:

CCR, Velvet Underground, Rage Against the Machine

Overrated:

Beach Boys (not rock but the first boy band), Bruce

Decent argument:

Eagles, Jimi and Metallica

Allman Brothers, no.

Submitted by Chad
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 8:05pm

and a big no on Nirvana too. not even the best of their generation. Please see: Jam, Pearl

Submitted by The Joe
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 8:21pm

Your logic is very scientific. Also ridiculous.

Horrid list? What, are you retarded? I don't even like half of the bands on my list (in an attempt at objectivity, imagine that), but your notion that no one besides Grateful Dead and the Doors compare to GNR is ludicrous.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 10:21pm

I'd probably have to say REM, just because Rolling Stone proclaimed them America's Best Band or something to that effect.

Seriously though, Guns and Roses can't even fill up a greatest hits CD. At best they match up with Aerosmith - pre Run DMC revival... Oh yeah, CCR.

Submitted by Chad
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 10:35pm

f rem. and that is not "rock" music. At best they are alt rock.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 10:48pm

You give me this idea of a TV show called 'The Cing of Cliches'.

G&R and Pearljam are just hair bands. May as well say Poison is the greatest American band of all time.

Submitted by Chad
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 11:00pm

r.e.m. is bland and lame and moody and BORING.

It's not rock music.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 11:02pm

You should buy and listen to Green.

Submitted by crunch
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 11:06pm

the REM "Green" drinking game by Crunch:

1- take a drink every time the word "I" or "me" is used
2- see #1

*WARNING* have the hospital on auto-dial before beginning the game.

Submitted by Chad
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 11:11pm

i am pretty sure that Green is considered their sell out pop album.

And it still blows. Stand? Really? They used it as the theme for the Chris Elliot show.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 2:43pm

And Guns and Roses covers Wings songs.

All bands' 'sell out' albums are the albums who singles get national radio play for the first time. Appetite for Destruction and 10 are your bands' sell-out albums.

Submitted by Chad
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 2:57pm

horrible take. total bullshit. that's not what a sellout album is.

Come talk to me when you have some idea of what you are talking about.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 3:06pm

'horrible take'? you're quoting Jim Rome now. The biggest hack in the sports entertainment industry, but based on the women you think are attractive and the bands you listen to, I don't know why that comes as a surprise.

Guns and Roses, are a band of guys whose only purposes of being 'musicians' is to get women and do drugs. They sold out as soon as they first plugged in their amps.

Pearl Jam is just boring. I bought 10, listened to it four times, and when it got stolen from my car never replaced it. Why did they name their band, 'Pearl Jam' anyway, was 'Coffee House Soul Patch' already taken?

"Come talk to me when you have some idea of what you are talking about." One of us has listened to these bands' albums and one of us hasn't.

Submitted by dB
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 5:35pm

Green was awful. If you're going to listen to REM make it Reckoning or Fables of the Reconstruction. After Fables the band passed away for me aside from two songs on New Adventures in HiFi. Electolite might just be REM's best song.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 8:44pm

Music snobs make me laugh.

Submitted by Tito
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 9:46am

One song on one album is the best you can do?

I wouldn't call Green a sellout record, though I will agree that that's where I started to lose interest a little bit. But Murmur, Reckoning, Fables of the Reconstruction and Lifes Rich Pageant stand (get it?) with the best American music ever.

Submitted by Indiana JJ
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 6:14am

Seriously though, Guns and Roses can't even fill up a greatest hits CD

Yes they can. It's called Appetite for Destruction.

Submitted by dB
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 5:13pm

the first boy band were the Beatles.

Submitted by Chifan
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 11:23pm

Others u forgot to list:

Tom Petty & the Heart Breakers, Foo Fighters, Green Day, and Lynard Skinyard.

Submitted by Chad
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 3:28am

Foo Fighters? Green Day? Get real.

Submitted by Chifan
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 10:06am

Both of them have been around right around 15 years so you can discuss the merits of them in American Rock History. Ok maybe I reached on Green Day, but with a couple of more good albums in another 15 years I think the Foo Fighters will be up thre in the top 11-20 range of American Rock Bands where most reasonable people would put Pearl Jam.

Submitted by Chad
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 11:51am

I think you are talking about something different.

I said that Pearl Jam was the best band since Guns N Roses. I didn't say that Pearl Jam was one of the very best american bands ever. I was more commenting on the pathetic nature of rock and roll music since the mid 90's.

I like the Foo a lot. But they are no Guns N Roses. That's what I was saying. As far as comparing to Pearl Jam, I would say they are in the conversation but looking at the bands that came from that generation (and yes I do realize that I am going to compare Dave Grohl to himself), I think they sit behind PJ, Nirvana and possibly Soundgarden.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 2:41pm

The thing is that most people blame Pearl Jam's popularity for the shitty state that American Rock music is in today.

Submitted by Chad
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 2:44pm

i don't know why. can you expand on that idea, please?

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 3:20pm

Creed
David Cook
Chris Daughtry

Submitted by jacos
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 3:08pm

Nirvana
Sound Garden
Alice in Chains
Pearl Jam ( and that dropped after VS)

Submitted by The Joe
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 7:05pm

This is not a slight...you really should expand your music intake. There are many very good rock bands right now. They just don't get mainstream radio play.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 2:44pm

I had forgotten the Heart Breakers, the Cars and Talking Heads.

Personal proference, probably the best American 'rock' band is The BoDeans.

Submitted by Chad
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 2:55pm

The Cars and the Talking Heads aren't even in the discussion.

The BoDeans? I will ignore their pleas and i actually will pass them over.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 2:59pm

What discussion? Who in your mind you think are the best American bands?

If you add up my Pearl Jam albums and my GnR ablums, that comes to three less or seven less than my Talking Heads or BoDeans albums, respectively.

Therefore Pearl Jam and Guns&Roses, aren't in the discussion.

Submitted by Chad
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 3:07pm

It's not about total albums. If so then take Nirvana off the list.

The Cars may have been cool 25 years ago, but so was Journey. And the Talking Heads was not rock music. Alt new wave crap. Not even good.

Best American Rock Bands:

GNR
The Grateful Dead
The Doors

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 3:15pm

It's about good albums that are filled with good songs. The Doors were as much a step away from mainstream rock as the Talking Heads were. GNR is just juvenille instrument banging. What did they do that no other band before them did? What are their great songs that stand the test of time? It seems your top qualification for being a great American rock band is to be closely associated with doing drugs and/or fucking groupies. I think there's a little more to rock music than that.

Submitted by Chad
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 3:24pm

28 million albums sold. Pretty good for juvenile instrument banging. Of course Slash is considered one of the greatest rock guitarists in history.

I think you might be able to catch a BoDeans or Cars show at a country fair these days.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 3:26pm

So Michael Jackson, Madonna and Brittany Spears would be your top three American Artists?

Submitted by Chad
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 3:27pm

it's not only album sales. But considering the Cars aren't on that list. Still couldn't tour or have anyone who cares about them i would say there is something to popularity.

And I would say the Michael Jackson is one of the greatest american music artists ever. That's a no brainer.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 3:33pm

Over 30 million albums sold for The Cars. : (

Submitted by Chad
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 3:48pm

and GNR nearly outsold them with one album.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 4:10pm

Still, they're a hair band. They contributed nothing to the wealth of music as a whole. They're essentially to Rock music what the Spice Girls are to pop music. They're pop music for people who think you need to have bad ass guitar solos and long hair to make a record.

Submitted by Chad
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 4:16pm

far from a hair band. And you obviously show how little you know on the subject.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 4:20pm

You've said that twice, while we've already established you base your music knowledge on what you hear on the radio.

Buy an album some time.

Submitted by big_lowitzki
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 3:53pm

FWIW... while I am not a fan of either, both Michael Jackson and Madonna SHOULD be in any conversation of top American artists.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 4:06pm

We're talking about rock bands.

Submitted by Chad
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 4:16pm

Bullshit Neal

you brought it up

"So Michael Jackson, Madonna and Brittany Spears would be your top three American Artists?"

Submitted by big_lowitzki
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 4:16pm

Then you should not have brought up pop stars, questioning whether or not they should be considered the top American artists.

Submitted by The Joe
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 7:09pm

What? You already took Nirvana off the list. You can't decide for everyone else which bands are 'on the list', whatever the hell that means. While lists in general are flawed, the most respected lists that are generally referred to are the ones that multiple people vote on then the best is averaged from that. AFI comes to mind.

Submitted by dB
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 5:19pm

Dylan, J.Cash, Velvet Underground, Hendrix, Iggy & the Stooges, Patti Smith, Television, Sonic Youth, Replacements, Husker Du, Ramones-(76-81), Bad Brains, all more relevant/better American bands/artists than those.

Submitted by Chad
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 5:50pm

not even close.

sonic youth is garbage. they inspired the whole 90s grunge but they really suck. Dylan and Cash you can make case for. Hendrix has been sited. Iggy Pop is not nor has every been relevant. Punk is dead. Don't get me wrong, i like the music but the are a side note. Patti Smith? No cares about her.

And don't get me started on the Replacements. A total PUSSY band fronted by the worst front man in modern music history. THe replacements are awful. ear bleeding awful.

Submitted by crunch
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 6:29pm

the hard part of taking your critiques seriously is the bands you call "good/great" you're trying to hold over some of these acts you're trashing. some of us find the idea of GnR being called a great band insane...especially if you've experienced the trainwreck they were as a live act.

they made a mega-influential hair metal record that showed and celebrated the "seedy" side of the strip. they were important, but no more important than jane's addiction was linking the metalheads to the psychedelic rock kids.

sonic youth has been a nearly 30-year touring band and you'll be hard pressed to find any guitar-based indie band who hasn't been exposed to and/or influenced by "daydream nation". they're not an indie-pop curiosity like guided by voices.

even if you don't like sonic youth they've been very important to so many acts after them.

Submitted by dB
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 6:34pm

with comments like those you can tell you don't actually listen to anything that you're bashing, or you don't understand anything that isn't played on commercial radio. SY didn't inspire grunge, they have no elements in their music that were used in grunge. The Pixies inspired "grunge" music way more than Sonic Youth. There would be no Nirvana if it weren't for the Pixies and other bands that they ripped off like the Vaselines and Wipers. They were simply an indie rock band that was influenced by avant garde music from NYC like Glenn Blanca. Whether you want to call that avant garde, no-wave or post punk, it's just indie rock to us. GnR was cockrock, meathead music that if it were getting made today would rest alongside of Linkin Park, Nickelback, and Kid Rock. Juvenile lyrics and generic one size fits all guitar riffs lifted from Randy Rhodes' back catalog of purely awful dreck.

Submitted by crunch
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 6:35pm

yeah, a lot more of the "grunge" sound influences were being born in the Mass. area with the mid-80s emergence of acts like Dinosaur Jr, Pixies (influential more than defining as far as sound goes), etc...

dinosaur jr's 1987 album "you're living all over me" could have come out 5 years later and not sounded 1 note out of place with what was going on in 92. a heavy influence cited by dinosaur jr. on that album was sonic youth's early/mid 80s work.

Submitted by dB
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 6:51pm

you're spot on Crunch. I should have mentioned Dinosaur Jr because that's how SY often gets roped into the whole "grunge" discussion because SY & Dino Jr both came from SST and toured together a couple times in the late 80's. Bug and You're Living All Over Me were solid albums in their own right but I don't consider Dino Jr grunge maybe their Without a Sound album but to me I put them in the Pavement/Superchunk type category even though they weren't really a low-fi band.

Submitted by Pell Mell
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 8:57pm

Wipers reference on TCR!

*drinks*

Submitted by Indiana JJ
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 7:03am

This isn't directed at any one post/poster, but the whole "If I don't like it it's garbage and has no value and if you don't agree with me you're stupid" attitude kills me. I happen to like GNR (Appetite only) and apparently this means I am stupid and have never listened to anything else. Most of Pearl Jam's stuff is not for me and apparently this also means I'm stupid and don't know what I'm talking about. Whatever.

Submitted by Tito
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 9:40am

"And don't get me started on the Replacements. A total PUSSY band fronted by the worst front man in modern music history."

Ugh, why did I keep reading? Jesus, how misguided.

A pussy band? Worst front man in modern music history? Vedder's best song isn't as good as Westerberg's worst.

Submitted by Chad
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 12:52pm

Dude, the Replacements are garbage. Horrible horrible music. Westerberg sucks.

And just to prove you stupid comment wrong, every Pearl Jam song is better than Dylexic Heart.

Submitted by Tito
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 2:03pm

Dude, you are so off-base, it's not even worth discussing. But get back to me when Vedder writes "Answering Machine" or "Alex Chilton" or "Left of the Dial." (Fortunately, I doubt you even know those songs.)

You're right, my comment was stupid. I don't really like "Dyslexic Heart" that much. I was pissed that someone could make such a dumbass comment about the Replacements and Westerberg, arguably my favorite songwriter of all-time with the possible except of Pete Townshend.

Submitted by Chad
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 2:11pm

Yes I know of those songs you listed. In fact "Alex Chilton" made it on the Rock Band playlist. (Although, I've heard it before)

Submitted by Tito
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 9:43am

"Iggy Pop is not nor has every been relevant."

Further proof you are in way over your head in this discussion. Proto-punk bands don't get any better, or more influential, than the Stooges.

Submitted by Chad
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 12:54pm

but they are not relevant. if iggy pop went on tour tomorrow they wouldn't sell out anything but very small clubs and theaters.

Submitted by Tito
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 2:01pm

First of all, why is the size of a venue someone plays tied to whether they are relevant or not? I have news for you, when GNR toured a few years ago, they were playing to half-empty arenas. Does the fact that arenas hold more people make them more relevant if they're half-full?

Secondly, you said Iggy Pop was never relevant and isn't relevant today. You are wrong. I wouldn't expect you to know that given what is clearly a lack of a well-rounded musical knowledge.

I meant to add earlier that a lot of this is obviously opinion/personal taste. But when the Beach Boys are called a boy band, when Iggy is someone never-been-relevant, Sonic Youth is just noise, there's a lack of understanding there. Personally, I don't like Sonic Youth very much at all, but to discount them as just noise is ignorant.

Submitted by Chad
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 2:12pm

popularity is not the end all measurement of who is better or worse. However, it's a huge component.

and GNR would out sell Iggy Pop 10 to 1.

Submitted by Tito
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 2:16pm

But so what?

Britney Spears, at her peak, could probably outdraw Pearl Jam. Does that mean she's better?

You cannot be serious in using popularity to determine quality.

And I'd like to add here that I was in no way denigrating Vedder/Pearl Jam before. He's by all accounts a great guy and had one of my other songwriting idols, Robert Pollard, open a couple of arena shows in 2006. A great gesture of respect on his part.

Submitted by Chad
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 2:24pm

"popularity is not the end all measurement of who is better or worse. However, it's a huge component."

did you read that right? I will stand by the fact that popularity is a big factor. You can't be the best ever if no one likes your music.

Are there examples of very popluar/not that talented acts? Yes.
Are there examples of not popular/talented acts? Yes.

But the best are the talented and popular ones.

Submitted by The Joe
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 2:36pm

Dude seriously, some people begin with facts and then form an opinion. Others form an opinion then meld facts to conform to that opinion. You (we) are clearly right, but none of your arguments are going to sink in. He's not listening. The real argument was about GNR being a great band. I don't fault those who like them, that's a subjective opinion, but I do fault those who completely dismiss (seemingly) the rest of American rock history for the sake of building them up. Like suddenly, Elvis Costello, Iggy Pop, Tom Waits, Yo La Tengo, Dismemberment plan, etc. aren't good because they compete for props with GNR.

Iggy Pop not relevant?
AOL Biography Page http://music.aol.com/artist/iggy-pop/biography/100...
"There's a reason why many consider Iggy Pop the godfather of punk -- every single punk band of the past and present has either knowingly or unknowingly borrowed a thing or two from Pop and his late-'60s/early-'70s band, the Stooges."

Yeah, irrelevant.

The bands that I listed previously, as I said, I don't even like most of them, Aerosmith, for instance, but I do recognize their importance.

I'm also tired of hearing people claim that there isn't any good modern rock music out their. There is plenty, but most of it isn't played on commercial radio stations. Beck, Ben Folds, Bright Eyes, Built to Spill, Cloud Cult, Magnetic Fields, the Shins (just to pull a few off my IPod) are still making damn good music. Those are random picks, so don't go bashing them individually.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 5:22pm

well it's settled then, Miley Cyrus is the greatest musical artist in our lifetime...

Submitted by Doug Dascenzo
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 9:56pm

This entire thread is a perfect representation of how boring the hot stove has been this offseason.

Submitted by dB
on Tue, 11/25/2008 - 1:36am

perhaps Chad is just pumped up because GnR is releasing their first album in 17 years this week. Myself, The Joe, Tito, Crunch etc should probably stop responding to him because having to hear that the Velvet Underground, Stooges and the Replacements aren't relevant made everyone here drop appx 20 IQ points simply by association. I can't comprehend how anyone can think that after listening to the Tim album someone would call Westerberg and the Replacements "pussies". Unreal.

Submitted by Chad
on Tue, 11/25/2008 - 1:56am

The Replacements are horrible. Just horrible. I have to listen to them in the car pool. At those moments I pray that my boss calls and yells at me just so i have a reason to stop listening to that crap.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Tue, 11/25/2008 - 5:29pm

With the added benefit of being yelled at by your boss over a cell phone probably sounds a lot like your typical GNR song.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Tue, 11/25/2008 - 5:33pm

Well actually, Chad is right. If the context of the conversation is 'Who is America's Greatest Rock Band?', none of those bands are relevant.

Sure they're good enough bands who had a pretty good swath of influence on other musicians, but sadly Eddie Vedder and Axle Rose have probably influenced more musicians. Not a positive influence, but there are a lot more guys trying to sing like Vedder than right songs like Westerberg, or even Lou Reed.

Submitted by dB
on Wed, 11/26/2008 - 6:17pm

completely disagree. Velvets and the Stooges influenced countless artists from 1972-present. All of the 70's-to-present punk/post-punk/indie/college rock/American underground or whatever you want to call it were the result of those two bands whether they even realize it or not. Who has GnR influenced? Nickelback or those neo-metal bands like Saliva or whatever? If you're talking higher album sales then yes of course, but that's it, and that means nothing unless you work for a major record label or Billboard or something.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Thu, 11/27/2008 - 8:56am

You totally disagree with what?

Velvet and the Stooges should be mentioned as among America's greatest Rock bands? That's not really a defensible position.

That they have influenced more musicians? There have been a lot more kids pick up a guitar because of Slash than because of Iggy Pop or John Cale. If you go to a random bar on Thursday night, you're probably 10 times as likely to hear 'Paradise City' by some band as you would be to hear 'White Light/White Heat'. For about five years, if you turned on AOR or top 40 radio, GnR defined how a guitar solo should be played. It's naive to think that didn't have a huge influence on kids where were beginning to start their music careers, intentional or not.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 3:21pm

Why do I think Jimi Hendrix is English?

Submitted by Chad
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 3:26pm

that is where he became known. The americans didn't like it until the brits did.

Submitted by jacos
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 3:33pm

From Seattle too.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 3:34pm

Ahh, but the band was English, so exempt from this list.

Submitted by jacos
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 9:26pm

Mitch Mitchell died last week.

McCartney made him audition for Wings when he was going to do "Band on the Run".

Which McCartney ended up doing himself.

Submitted by JoePepitone
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 11:25pm

"McCartney made him audition for Wings when he was going to do "Band on the Run".

Which McCartney ended up doing himself."

?!! McCartney made him audition? I've heard McCartney's drumming (Back in the USSR, Dear Prudence, Ballad of John and Yoko, along with said solo album, et. al.). He's acceptable. Not great. Bad chemistry with Paulie? Mitchell was clearly the more skillful and accomplished drummer.

Submitted by crunch
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 2:20am

rumor has it mitchell's low OB% combined with a poor clubhouse attitude made him expendable.

Submitted by jacos
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 10:12am

I think Paul was being Paul, McCartney said the best compliment he ever got was from Keith Moon asking Paul who did the drums on "band on the Run" because they were so good.

Submitted by JoePepitone
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 5:30pm

~sigh~ I think Paul falls in love with his ace multi-instrumentalist persona sometimes (kind of like Z loves the fact that he can also hit). Yes, he was a great bass player. Yes, he was the Beatles' best piano player. He was probably their most skilled guitarist as well. He occasionally would crank out a guitar solo on a Beatles songs in one 5 minute take when George failed to get it right after several hours of trying. Example: Paul did this on Taxman, George's own song. "Sorry George, I know it's your song and all, but I can play this solo on your own instrument better than you." He also had the strongest, most flexible voice of the four. BUT-- Paul should let others drum unless there was no choice. Some awkward moments in his drum performances.

Submitted by jacos
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 5:35pm

Ringo said in a book after he quit during White Album sessions Paul did USSR and Dear Prudence, he sent Ringo a post card telling he was the best rock drummer and to come back.

Ringo came back of course, but Ringo said every time after that he left the studio for a snack of something and he came back, Paul would be behind the drums.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 7:10pm

It's pretty rare that anyone mistook Ringo's drumming as his major contribution to the band.

Submitted by Pell Mell
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 9:01pm

Moon was just trying to make sure it wasn't him playing. The previous few years had been a bit blurry.

Submitted by JoePepitone
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 9:25pm

~rimshot~

:)

Submitted by jacos
on Tue, 11/25/2008 - 9:00am

HAHA

And it was during Lennon's lost weekend in LA, when they met.

And here is the last picture taken of Lennon and McCartney with Moon in the middle.

Yes I am a Beatles geek.

http://www.gloriousnoise.com/images/lennon-mccartn...

Submitted by JoePepitone
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 3:42pm

"Why do I think Jimi Hendrix is English?"

Probably because he got famous after he was signed up by the Animals' Chas Chandler, who moved him to London and produced his first two albums from there. However, Jimi was from Seattle and played guitar as a sideman in the US for Little Richard, the Isley Brothers, and King Curtis, among others.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 7:49pm

anyone remember Drew Hall? probably not...but he was a hotshot prospect in the 80's for the Cubs. Part of the Palmeiro trade...

guess he's been coaching...

http://www.msueagles.com/index.asp?display=news&ne...

Submitted by WISCGRAD
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 11:59pm

I defenitely remember Drew Hall, but for only one reason:

http://www.checkoutmycards.com/Cards/Baseball/1989...

Why someone would take the time to scan this card and list it for sale is beyond me.

Submitted by Cubster
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 7:52pm

Shorty Rosenthal says Giants and A's are leading in the Furcal derby. Cubs are interested but won't bid until well after the Dec 1st deadline for new ownership leads to more free agent money; that is if Furcal lasts that long on the open market.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8828842/Giants,-A

" The Cubs, too, are interested in Furcal, but after re-signing free-agent right-hander Ryan Dempster to a four-year, $52 million contract, they probably could not invest heavily in another player until after the team is sold. Bidders have until Dec. 1 to submit offers, Major League Baseball officials said this week. "

Submitted by crunch
on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 9:02pm

OAK blowing 1/5th of their payroll on a light hitting SS would rule.

Submitted by navigator
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 6:38am

Chicago Cubs manager Lou Piniella and general manager Jim Hendry will be the featured speakers at the Iowa Cubs' FanFest Jan. 13 at Hy-Vee Hall in downtown Des Moines.

Tickets cost $30, and can be purchased from the Iowa Cubs at (515) 243-6111.

Submitted by navigator
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 6:44am

http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...

Submitted by Cubster
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 8:59am

and it's not mark teabag.

Our New Right Fielder?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees...

BYE-BYE, BOBBY? Bobby Abreu has said all along he'd like to return to the Yankees, but that seems doubtful unless he accepts arbitration. There have been no talks between the outfielder and the club and Abreu has made it clear he wants a three-year deal, something the Yankees likely won't give him. A source close to Abreu said he might be willing to accept a two-year contract with an option from the Yankees, though he might get a three-year offer elsewhere. The Mets and Cubs have expressed interest in him, the source said.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 10:53am

Anything longer than a one year deal on Abreu is just asking for trouble.

Follow the WARP

9.8
9.0
9.5
6.6
7.3
5.8
5.2

Submitted by 10man
on Sat, 11/22/2008 - 7:08pm

4.5? Damn these IQ tests are hard. Where's the multiple choice?

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Sun, 11/23/2008 - 2:46pm

I haven't installed Office on this PC but won't it do the best fit calculation for you? Somewhere in the 4.4 to 5.0 range, I guess. That's not much for $14 million.

Submitted by Tito
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 9:36am

"Beach Boys (not rock but the first boy band)"

I stopped reading after this.

Brian Wilson, an all-time musical genius songwriter, part of a "boy band"?

It doesn't get any more ridiculous than that.

Submitted by 10man
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 10:26am

You know nothing is happening when you get 100 posts that have nothing to do with the Cubs.

Submitted by Tito
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 2:27pm

Oh, I read it properly. I just disagree with you. The fact that you say, "You can't be the best if no one likes your music" is silly.

If you think GNR is better than, say, Creedence, based even in part on who is/was more popular, or who could sell out Allstate Arena and who couldn't, in my opinion you're wrong. If you think their music is better, while I do think you're wrong there, too, I wouldn't argue it because that's personal taste.

Submitted by Tito
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 2:38pm

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Chad never listened to a lot of punk.

Submitted by Chad
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 2:56pm

i listen to it all. I have very wide range of music in my catalogue and it spans just about every genre.

Submitted by The Joe
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 2:58pm

Sure you do. But it all just sucks.

Submitted by Chad
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 2:59pm

i don't believe i ever said that.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Mon, 11/24/2008 - 5:07pm

He's got Dance Party Hits Volumes 1 through 27. How is that not a wide musical range?

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