Winter Meetings 2008 Day 1
Bumping this back up top as I think we all know that they've crushed Santo's little heart again.
10:34 PM CST UPDATE: Bruce Levine was on ESPN-1000 AM, from his hotel room (soaking his feet) at the Bellagio. All he added was that any Jake Peavy deal might include either the Orioles or Marlins as the additional teams to make the deal happen but he didn't sound like he had info that was recently updated on this. --Cubster
10:04 PM CST UPDATE: Corey Brock on mlb.com says the Peavy trade legwork is done. "There's a package there that will satisfy us. There's a deal in the way of names. It comes down to does Jim (Hendry) have the wherewithall to make it happen?" said Towers. It could be as extensive as a 3 or 4 team transaction possibly including one or both of the Phillies/Orioles. Not much in terms of specific names other than Peavy but at least there are some quotes from Kevin Towers that sound like a transaction is possible, at least meeting the Padres threshold for a deal. --Cubster
8:53 PM CST UPDATE: Last one before I call it a day, Scott Miller at CBS also talks about the Phils being involved in the Peavy talks. Miller says Vitters, Hart and possibly Marquis would go to the Padres with Phillies prospect, J.A. Happ going as well and possibly catcher Chris Coste. What the Phils would get is unclear, although they do apparently like Mark DeRosa and are interested in an established veteran starting pitcher which makes you wonder if Miller misheard about Marquis going to the Padres instead of the Phils in this deal.
Miller states the obvious that the Padres wouldn't be thrilled with getting Marquis in the deal but the Cubs would have to pay almost half the contract and I assume the Padres would look to move him eventually. The Padres and Cubs have also talked about Cedeno and Angel Guzman and Miller says the Cubs are "leaning against" moving Sean Marshall.
8:27 PM CST UPDATE: More from Stark that the Padres are only talking to the Cubs and that progress needs to be made by Thursday or Towers is pulling the plug. Stark mentions it possibly ending up being a three-team, 10-player "extravaganza".
7:55 PM CST UPDATE: ESPN saying the Cubs met with Milton Bradley on Sunday.
6:53 PM CST UPDATE: Rosenthal says the Phillies "have emerged" as the possible third team in the Peavy to Cubs trade talks.
The Denver Post says the Rockies don't have the cash to trade for Marquis.
5:49 PM CST UPDATE: O's are interested in Felix Pie and if I read it correctly, it sounds like the Cubs will only trade him for Garrett Olson if they can immediately flip Olson as part of the deal for Jake Peavy. As has been discussed, Lou isn't too keen on Pie's strike zone judgment.
5:33 PM CST UPDATE Lou is in Vegas apparently, showing off that he's still got his pulse on the game asking a group of Seattle reporters if Ibanez can play right field? Shouldn't Lou be answering that question? Lou seemed intrigued that J.J. Putz is only making $5.5M next season.
5:00 PM CST UPDATE: MLB Hot Stove Blog also talks about the Rockies, Marquis and Jeff Baker and makes it sounds like there isn't much of a match at the moment.
3:25 PM CST UPDATE: I'm making a bit of an assumption here, but Miles in the comments on his blog seems to be indicating that the Rockies want to move outfielder Jeff Baker for Jason Marquis, but the Cubs aren't interested in that.
3:16 PM CST UPDATE: The Sun-Sentinel says the Cubs and Marlins haven't talked about Hermida in "quite a while".
3:00 PM CST UPDATE: Pretty much the same story at the offical MLB Hot Stove Blog that Rosenthal was saying. It's the Cubs or bust and if Towers isn't certain by Thursday that a deal will get done, he's pulling Peavy off the block.
2:43 PM CST UPDATE: Rosenthal has a quote from Towers saying the Cubs are the only team the Padres are talking to about Peavy. There was a brief conversation with the Dodgers that didn't go anywhere. Towers says he should know by the end of the meetings if a deal will get done or whether to drop it. Towers repeats that Peavy does not have to be moved.
2:13 PM CST UPDATE: Stark is back and says the Cubs have checked in on all four left-handed hitting corner outfielders (Dunn, Abreu, Ibanez and Bradley) and that Ibanez and Abreu are higher up on the Cubs' wish list. Funny that Dunn and Bradley would be the two that would be on top of my wish list. He also says the Marlins want more than prospects for Hermida and it's unclear if the Cubs would be willing to deal from the major league roster.
Stark also has a source saying that the interest for Marquis has been barely a "nibble" . The Cubs have relayed to teams and agents that they could add payroll now with the understanding that they would subtract some later, rather then the reports that they had to move money first before acquiring anyone.
1:49 PM CST UPDATE: Tigres interested in Kerry Wood as well.
12:36 PM CST UPDATE: Jon Heyman mentions that Towers envisions a way to get the deal done with just the Cubs and Padres.
12:15 PM CST UPDATE: Ron Santo didn't make it, but some Yankee named Joe Gordon did who was on the pre-1943 ballot. Santo was on the 1943-1987 ballot and received just 60.9%(75% was needed) of the vote. I think that was his last hurrah, sadly. Cubnut has a post above if you want to chime in on this one.
12:10 CST UPDATE: Bruce Miles weighs in and says that Fontenot is really not available and the Cubs would like three lefties in the lineup on most days. He says Ronny Cedeno is definitely a trade candidate and possibly a non-tender candidate. The only other bit of news is that the Padres are worried about some hand/wrist issues with Vitters.
- Phil Rogers also mentions the Cubs offering Marquis to the Mets.
- Jayson Stark thinks there is zero chance Peavy will get dealt by the end of the meetings. He also mentions the Cubs need to move some contracts before adding any and throws out Jeremy Hermida/Cubs interest as well.
- Listening to XM radio this morning, I believe it was Peter Pasquarelli saying that Bobby Abreu would be a good fit for the Cubs lineup but that he has been noticeably skittish going back on baseballs and worrying about running into the wall. That can't possibly be a good thing with Wrigley and the brick. He also said he's heard that Milton Bradley's knee is quite better and could let him play 100-110 games in the outfield.
- Rays might be having some talks about Hermida and there have been no indications that they've been involved as the third team in the Peavy/Cubs deal according to the St. Petersburg Times.
10:11 AM CST UPDATE: Always reliable reader, "jacos" relays a radio report from Bruce Levine that the Cubs are trying to pawn Jason Marquis to the Mets or Royals. Off to the commute, be back in a couple of hours.
9:56 AM CST UPDATE: Will Ron Santo get the call today? One site is saying him, Dick Allen and Joe Torre have made it. Official announcement is at noon CST.
9:42 AM CST UPDATE: Wittenmeyer says their is a buzz the deal will get done today, indicating the five Cubs are Marshall, Hart, Vitters, Pie and Cedeno and a deal is already in place for Felix Pie to the O's for Garrett Olsen.
He also say Jeremy Hermida and free agent Milton Bradley are high on the Cubs wish list and that the Cubs discussed Khalil Greene with the Padres before he was moved to St. Louis.
- A story on how Towers enjoys dealing with Hendry and that Hendry has already steered him away from one prospect with possible injury issues.
- Rosenthal says the Cubs may look into Rich Aurilia if they move Ronny Cedeno or Mike Fontenot.
- Roch Kubatko in Baltimore says their is a buzz that a deal for Peavy will get done today, although he neglects to mention the Cubs in the article.
- Mets and particulary the Texas Rangers want in on Kerry Wood.
I'll do my best to keep you up-to-date on the Cubs rumors floating around today and the rest of the Winter Meetings.
To start you off, Bruce Miles says Raul Ibanez, Bobby Abreu and Milton Bradley are on the Cubs' radar. He reiterates that Marquis is most definitely on the trading block and Jake Peavy is still very much on the table.
- BP floats a "wild rumor" that the Rays are the third team involved in the Padres/Cubs trade talks. It involves Brian Giles going to the Rays apparently and probably a séance and some animal sacrifice as well. The writer says the O's want Pie and Cedeno if they're going to be the third team and that the Padres seem intent to get five players in the deal. If five players is all they need, may I suggest Rich Hill, Ronny Cedeno, Donald Veal, Ryan Harvey and Mark Holliman. Phil Rogers would consider that a great deal.
- Same BP article says Kerry Wood may make an appearance at some point in Vegas.
- The San Diego Union-Tribune says the framework of a 5-for-1 deal is in place and Padres are "confident" that they can get Sean Marshall, Josh Vitters and Kevin Hart in a deal, then the elusive extra pitcher from a third organization and possibly Cedeno as the 5th player.
I am right there with you closing in on 60.
I don't care that much about "mortgaging" one player who is not only blocked by two guys, but is not ready to hit the majors for at least a couple years.
There is no reason why this team, this year, can't have a real shot at something NONE of us have experienced.
Further, I don't feel that even if they fall short that they have ruined their farm system.
I have made my opinion clear here, with others, Warren was shit on the Cubs save one spot start.
Trading for Warren, Warren sucking, getting Warren back for Chapman plus 3 prospects, sounds like Revenge of The Yankees on the former Boston executive. Old rivalries never die.
I pray to the heavens above Chapman doesn't suck for some reason, or he'll be booed out of town faster than a Todd Hundley revival meeting.
I'm kind of nostalgic for the Schwarber-for-Miller rumors.
This offseason, after some ridiculous playoff run and Chapman saving every game from here until the end of the postseason striking out 27/9innings, I welcome anyone to quote this thread and call me a dummy: I hate this trade, and my hate is 2 parts Chapman makes this team less likeable and 1 part that's a ridiculous overpay for 30 regular season innings and, at tops, 10 postseason innings. Already hoping they don't extend him.
btw...Thanks AZ Phil. I'm really enjoying your take on this trade.
I'm a bit disappointed on the Warren experience. Essentially they gave Castro away for crickets (OK, well they signed Zobrist with the Castro salary dump). Otherwise one might look at it as Chapman for Castro and our #1 minors prospect (Torres) + McKinney/Crawford. Seems pricey for a 2 month rental. We will see if this price tag is that steep in a relative way based on the remaining deadline deals for relievers.
Yep. One of the great things about this team (in addition to being really good at baseball) was the "likable" factor. Feels a bit different now. Who knows...maybe Chapman will be the king of the dance parties.
Here are some possible corresponding minor league moves we might see in the aftermath of the Chapman trade:
SOUTH BEND to MYRTLE BEACH: OF Donnie Dewees and INF Bryant Flete
EUGENE to SOUTH BEND: OF Robert Garcia and INF Vimael Machin
There is really no reason to replace Billy McKinney at Tennessee because both Chris Coghlan and Jorge Soler are doing their rehab at Tennessee.
And there are plenty of pitchers at Iowa. No need to replace Warren at AAA. .
I am 70 years old. The Cubs last played in the World Series in 1945. I was born in 1946. I hate to lose a prospect like Torres, but when the opportunity is there to get that World Series ring, you go for it. This was the idea in stock piling all this young talent. I would like to see Reddick added now and the Cubbies should be done.
I would expect Richard to accept an optional assignment because based on how he's played this season, there is a decent chance that he won't find work elsewhere. Rather stay and potentially get a ring. Same goes for Coghlan since he's struggled mightily this year.
Edwards should not go down. He's pitched very well and Maddon is very impressed with him. I would expect Grimm to go down for Cahill so he can get back on track (he's pitched better in July, but he's not getting enough appearances).
chitownmvp01: Indeed Clayton Richard would seem to be odd man out once Chapman reports, but Richard might accept a minor league assignment if he is promised a return to Chicago on 9/1 when MLB Active List rosters expand (Richard has minor league ioptions left).
The only player in the deal that would cause me a second thought is Gleyber Torres.
McKinney and Crawford are decent prospects but both are redundant/replaceable in the system and Warren was really only a middle-reliever or #6 starter, so to me it's really just Torres for Chapman.
There is no Comp pick for players traded mid-season. 2+ months of Chapman is it.
to get one of the best you have to give up one/some of your best...but it's a bit painful to watch the system's best prospect walk for any 2-3 month rental, especially one that's not an everyday player.
I assume Chapman will replace Richard on the roster, but who goes down when Cahill gets activated? Maybe Grimm?
And when Soler and Coghlan get healthy, how do they fit them on the roster when they're ready to be activated?
We are giving up a lot, but it's not like we're trading Addison Russell for 2+ months of Jason Hammel. When impact players become available, they are going to cost you. The other bids could also have been high.
Having Chapman as a rental is potentially less disruptive than having him come in with an extension in place.