Illinois Governor Indicted on Corruption, Charges Include Tampering with Sale of Wrigley

Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich has been arrested on corruption charges.  The most prominent charges involve allegations that he essentially tried to sell his pending appointment of a successor to the U.S. Senate seat being vacated by President-elect Obama.

However, the indictments also include a charge that Blagojevich threatened to make assistance in the Tribune's efforts to sell Wrigley Field conditional on the Tribune firing members of its editorial board who had criticized his administration and even called for his impeachment.

Not wanting to pre-empt the winter meeting updates too much, the details are after the break.

Looking at pages 41 through 49 of the indictment (warning, .pdf file), Blagojevich is accused of phoning officials at the Tribune and demanding the dismissal of editors who Blagojevich believed were "driving" the movement towards impeachment; the governor feared would impeachment could go forward early in the spring of 2009.  If they were not let go, the governor allegedly threatened to block state assistance in the sale of Wrigley - a process that would go through the Illinois Finance Authority. In a phone call to an unnamed Deputy Governor intercepted by the FBI this November 3rd,

 

ROD BLAGOJEVICH’s wife can be heard in the background telling ROD BLAGOJEVICH to tell Deputy Governor A “to hold up that fucking Cubs shit. . . fuck them."  ...  Deputy Governor A told ROD BLAGOJEVICH that Tribune Owner will say that he does not have anything to do with theeditorials, “but I would tell him, look, if you want to get your Cubs thing done get rid of this Tribune.” Later, ROD BLAGOJEVICH’s wife got on the phone and, during the continuing discussion of the critical Tribune editorials, stated that Tribune Owner can “just fire” the writers because Tribune Owner owns the Tribune.  (44)

 

 

The Tribune company, which just yesterday filed for bankruptcy protection, was widely known to be in financial trouble, so the threat to deny state assistance in the sale of Wrigley must have carried some amount of weight.

Pages 48 and 49 of the indictment gives a sense of just how much weight.

 

In apparent reference to the prospect of IFA assistance for the Wrigley Field deal, ROD BLAGOJEVICH then asked, “what does this mean to them? Like $500 million? What does it mean to [Tribune owner] in real terms?” HARRIS replied, “To them? About $100 million . . .maybe 150.”  ROD BLAGOJEVICH said that he thought “it was worth like $500 million to ‘em.” ROD BLAGOJEVICH and HARRIS then discussed the details of the deal the Cubs are trying to get through the IFA. HARRIS [Blagojevich's chief of staff - Trans] said that it is basically a tax mitigation scheme where the IFA will “own title to the building” (believed to be Wrigley Field), and the Tribune will not “have to pay capital gains tax.” HARRIS explained that the total gain to the Tribune is in the neighborhood of $100 million. ROD BLAGOJEVICH said, “$100 million is nothing to sneeze at. That’s still worth something, isn’t it?”

 

The prosecuter in the case is U. S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald, most recently known for his prosecution of the Valerie Plame leak. Blagojevich, a Democrat, came into office on the heels of Gov. George Ryan, a Republican, who was convicted of racketeering and fraud, and presently is serving a six-year prison term. Fitzgerald's press release notes the potential penalties facing Blagojevich:

if convicted, conspiracy to commit mail and wire fraud carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison, while solicitation of bribery carries a maximum of 10 years in prison, and each count carries a maximum fine of $250,000. The Court, however, would determine the appropriate sentence to be imposed under the advisory United States Sentencing Guidelines.

 

 

 

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Comments

Whew! This is not going to be good for Blago's approval rating (which was already down to 4% before the arrest).

It's pretty amazing that Barack Obama could emerge pristine and pure from the same Crook County political machine

/gullibility

Actually, the indictment notes that Obama wouldn't play ball, and Blago was pissed about it.

 

Rezko, however, was deeply involved in the scheme.

 

And if we can get through this topic without a flame-war, I'll be so proud of us...

Obama hasn't associated with the best people in the world. But from everything I read he wouldn't play ball with Blago and tried to space himself from any wrong-doings early on.

Who knows, i think all politicians are corrupt in someway, so this isn't surprising to me.

Just all of don't get caught

So, you seem to think Obama knew about Blago's wrongdoings early on. I guess he did the right thing and turned him into the Feds.

yeah, I was wondering the same thing. It's one thing to distance yourself from the situation, the other would be to actually do something about it, which Obama should have been doing.

How do we know Obama didn't alert Fitzpatrick to it? 

I don't, I was wondering (hoping) that he did.

He simply distanced himself from Rev. Wright, Rezko, Ayers, and never addressed those situations. What would anything with Blago be different?

I don't believe you'll find much of anything from Obama, words or actions, that tried to actually reduce the amount of corruption going on in Illinois. He didn't even speak out against George Ryan as a State Senator. Incompetent fool or corruption enabling opportunistic self-interested power seeker willing to sacrifice good, honest, efficient government - take your pick.

That's not to say John McCain isn't a completely different kind of incompetent fool.

Let's try substituting a few words in Washington's post just for fun...

"I don't believe you'll find much of anything from McCain, words or actions, that tried to actually reduce the amount of corruption going on in Washington. He didn't even speak out against George Bush as a U.S. Senator. Incompetent fool or corruption enabling opportunistic self-interested power seeker willing to sacrifice good, honest, efficient government - take your pick."

Not trying to start a flame war, but that looks just as accurate to me as anything else said.

I still can't believe the stupidity on Blago's part to not only follow up Ryan's corruption with this own, but to know for four years the FBI were investigating him and to still be doing it as recently as last Thursday (one of the calls about selling the Senate seat). This guy belongs in the same cell with Ryan for the next 6+ years and I hope neither of them gets a day cut off their sentences.

hell, for this crap he'll be lucky to see freedom for quite a while.

he buried his corrupt-ass self.

the entire dem. party in IL needs a shakeup, but until the people demand it (aka, actually participate in democracy beyond the newspapers/tv and voting 1 day every couple years) it probably won't happen.

where have you gone Jason Farbman

Very true Paul. Couldn't have said it better myself. I don't root for either party. And I'm a Cubs fan. I have no idea what happened.

Assuming Blago doesn't weasel his way out of this, we'll be able to brag that four of our last eight governors wound up in Federal prison. Awesome.

This really surprises me. Illinois never has any history of political corruption. It's like US's own littl version of Latin American politics.

Once you go Mob you don't go back?

This again?

What do you call the countires of Central and South American, well known for their politicians with flexible morality?

"A man becomes preeminent, he’s expected to have enthusiasms.
Enthusiasms...
Enthusiasms...
What are mine?
What draws my admiration?
What is that which gives me joy?
Baseball!
A man stands alone at the plate.
This is the time for what?
For individual achievement.
There he stands alone.
But in the field, what?
Part of a team. Teamwork.
Looks, throws, catches, hustles.
Part of one big team.
Bats himself the live-long day,
Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, and so on.
If his team don’t field...what is he?
You follow me?
He’s no one.
Sunny day, the stands are full of fans.
What does he have to say?
I’m goin’ out there for myself.
But... I get nowhere unless the team wins."

You knew when they showed the guy with the loud colorful vest he was the one that was going to get it.

We had the presser from the government about this in our noon newscast. Pretty damning stuff against Robby. Some of the other stuff he allegedly said in those wiretapping conversations is going to get him in a lot of trouble.

Ugly, ugly stuff.

"I have nothing to fear but the truth." - Governor Rod Blagojevich (D-Illinois), July 3, 2008.

http://www.chicagopublicradio.org/Content.aspx?aud...

{FDR}Hey! That's not what I said!!!{/FDR}

Obama's US Senate seat for sale on Ebay

12 bids so far

http://cgi.ebay.com/OBAMAS-ILLINOIS-SENATE-SEAT-FO...

Is Blago a season ticket holder? Maybe this will free up a couple of seats. Jagass.

My favorite from the ebay listing "
* Media reports indicated that Senate Candidate 1, an adviser to the President-elect, was interested in the Senate seat if it became vacant, and was likely to be supported by the President-elect. During the call, ROD BLAGOJEVICH stated, "Unless I get something real good for [Senate Candidate 1], s--t, I'll just send myself, you know what I'm saying."

* ROD BLAGOJEVICH later stated, "I'm going to keep this Senate option for me a real possibility, you know, and therefore I can drive a hard bargain. You hear what I'm saying. And if I don't get what I want and I'm not satisfied with it, then I'll just take the Senate seat myself." Later, ROD BLAGOJEVICH stated that the Senate seat "is a f-ing valuable thing, you just don't give it away for nothing."

FYI
The rumor guys say Wood to Cleveland for 2 years with an option.

Peavy was singing "Go Cubs Go" at a Vegas bar last night.

winter meetings talk down below...

Hard drinker, huh?

depends on the Vegas bar. Piano Bar in New York New York - one does not have to be wasted to sing there. Casino Royale, on the other hand ...

Blago can still name the Senate replacement until he's officially removed from office.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/09/illinois.go...

Blago still enjoys ALL the powers of the Governor's office. Impeachment proceedings should begin tomorrow, and should have happened 3 years ago. The feds have been investigating him for 5 years after dozens and dozens of people that donated $25,000 to his re-election campaign started showing up as appointments within weeks of making the donations. Obama didn't lift a finger. All he will do now is try to avoid the situation instead of being a leader in changing the situation. Just watch.

Obama should call for Blago to resign and for Jones Jr./Cullerton and Madigan to immediately begin impeachment proceedings as a good start. A leader interested in change would also call for the resignations of the party leaders that put Blago where he is, namely Michael Madigan as Chair of Illinois Democratic Party and Chair of Blago's re-election campaign. Obama should be a leader and make one of those great speeches of his calling for change in how his party runs Illinois. Obama is a wimp when it comes to Illinois politics, I'm sorry to say.

I have a feeling Blago is going to go down kicking and screaming trying to take as many people with him as he can. If only he has enough dirt on Michael Madigan and Emil Jones Jr and King Daley and Toddler Stroger and half the Illinois General Assembly and the entire Democratic/Republican Combine Party of Illinois to take them down with him. This will be fun to watch in any event.

Federal politicians almost never insert themselves into state politics so overtly. But hey, since you need something to be angry at Obama about, enjoy.

I don't think Obama's going to get off that easily. Even the softballers up in DC are going to feel obliged to ask 'If you knew this was going on, how come you did't do anything about it?"

Then Fox will show the gumption to ask "Why didn't you know it was going on? Are you going to run a 'don't ask don't tell Whitehouse?"

For Obama's sake I certainly hope he at least was a tipper, since he pretty obviously wasn't a hornblower.

Barack Obama was a STATE Senator for 8 years and did nothing and then campaigned on the theme of CHANGE instead of the business as usual politics that federal politicians usually engage in such as ignoring rampant crime sprees of corruption as the US Attorney put it today. But hey, since you need something to be an apologist for and business as usual federal politicians' behavior fits, enjoy.

Government power for sale makes me angry since I had more skin that game than most, but there still is no excuse to sitting idly by while the people of Illinois get ripped off because its politically advantageous. We're better than that and should expect better from the people with all the power. Barack Obama isn't a saint and there should be nothing wrong with pointing that out. I really do hope he proves me wrong and actually changes things, but apologizing for his stupidity certainly isn't going help.

Anyway, enough of that microphone grab, Go Cubs. One of the few professional sports teams not getting much, if any, government welfare at the expense of poor people. The Cubs even have to bribe Daley and the neighborhood every time they want to fix falling concrete. Hopefully this ends all discussion of the state getting involved with Wrigley Field in any way.

I obviously need baseball season to start and turn my thoughts towards the real enemies. Dusty Baker and Albert Pujols and Ryan Braun and Roy Oswalt and soft tossing Pirate lefties.

I view Dusty Baker as a sort of double agent for the Cubs.

He wasn't a state senator for 8 years while Blagojevich was governor. You might want to check your math on that.

It's a great argument you've constructed around the assumption that Blagojevich was corrupt from the day he stepped into office though no specifics exist and that Obama knew about the corruption while he was a state senator, though no record of this exists. Arguments that can't be disproven are generally considered poorly constructed. If rejecting that fabulously Hannitytastic argument makes me an apologist, so be it.

That sounds more naive than apologetic.

It's naive to not accept an argument that claims they know what someone was thinking five years ago? If there were even a sliver of proof that this was the case I might consider it. This TCR newbie is pulling this argument out of his ass. It would be like me saying that Harden was in the Bay Area when Bonds and Balco were active. He had to have been doing steroids. If you said, that's not a very good argument, would you be an apologist or naive? Stop for a second and pretend you're not on the internet and you actually have to say something with a smidgen of validity.

it is if you're on the wrong "side" of a political motivation.

it's interesting to see what side-pickers-of-politics will trash and who they let slide with doubt. go figure. happens on both side and these type of people generally come off without the proper impact after a history of their views show themselves.

Eh, I tend not to accept these kind of arguments regardless of political leanings. If you haven't noticed by now, rhetoric and semiotics are of particular interest to me. I rarely if ever talk politics.

i'm just talking on motivation from a means to an end.

not talking about you, either, at least to my knowledge.

i'm just generalizing about people and the "team sport" mentality of politics we've cultivated here (and in many many other nations).

Mr. Whipple has an interest in semiotics? Damn, I've been away from this board and the chat for too long.

I'm usually split between discussion of semiotics and making fun of retarded babies.

no good will come of this.... 

Ding.

Trans, are you still proud of us?

Trans?  Who is this Trans you speak of...  No one here but us chickens.

 

~Bwak!~

I really shouldn't have called him a newbie. That wasn't nice. Retracted and apologies offered.

It's naive to think that someone was part of by what all appearances were corrupt administrations for 8 years and think he didn't ever hear anything about it. You're going on and on about proof, like you're defeding OJ at a murder trial.

As a representitive it's your job to report things like what has been going on. It's part of what's called 'the public trust'.

Either he knew what was going on and didn't say anything, or he's a dolt. Which do you prefer?

it's a bit naive to think criminals like to surround themselves with lots of people and share their criminal motivations, imo.

does it help that he's been wiretapped and under surveillance through most of this?

just because the people share a party and a state doesn't mean you can link them together...god...let's take everyone associated with gordon liddy and lock them up because they're obviously building-bombing terrorists and they all knew what was up.

=p

I can just imagine you guys watching a cop drama. You know, one where everyone knows certain cops are dirty but no one says anything about it?

Everyone trying to enjoy the movie:

crunch and Whipple yelling "HEY! They don't REALLY KNOW FOR SURE they're DIRTY!! This movie is BS!"

Nice strawman though, since no one accused Obama of being a criminal.

why...

WHY...

when anyone brings up a serious point...

you HAVE to turn it into a semantic argument and change the subject?

i dunno why i even bother when you play stupid and never-wrong with so many issues. you're some piece of work, guy.

Because he's just like Adolf Hitler.

Ooops.

Huh?

Please elaborate.

I said that Obama should answer some tough questions about this, and based on that you leapfrogged to me calling him a criminal, which you follow up with.

'you HAVE to turn it into a semantic argument and change the subject?'

My subject the whole time is that Obama knew or should have known what was going on.

Honestly man, I just don't understand how your brain works.

your mom!

"...let's take everyone associated with gordon liddy and lock them up because they're obviously building-bombing terrorists and they all knew what was up."

Followed up by:

"why...

WHY...

when anyone brings up a serious point..."

Only you, crunch. Only you.

OH SNAP!

*does the arsenio hall hand twirl thing*

I happen to know that Crunch is an anti-semantic.

NO!

i hate JUICE.

geez...get a q-tip, dude.

weirdest thread ever on TCR I think....

on another note, I traded Tulowitzki, Aramis and E. Santana and got Chase Utley's ailing hip,  Arod and Jake Peavy?

Did I win?

arod and ootley? damn. win.

wait, you're in my league, you should know these things.

yahoo groups are almost 100% unreadable and outdated in it's format to me.

unless someone gets to me via email i pretty much only check it once a week until it's near season-start.

you should get emails, there's a daily email option....

i used to, but 1/2 the traffic there is just jokes and b/s instead of business. i expect that, though...it's supposed to be fun, not all business.

i'll try to stop by 2 times a week rather than 1...heh.

Q: How skinny can these boxes get?

Even skinnier

But can they get even smaller?

It appears they can.

We do this a lot on these sort of posts.

Oh.

 

Dear.

 

God.

This place beats the hell out of MVN

FUCK YES: we can fucking curse. Fucking fuck fuck.

woo.

*yeehaw*

wow...

Message board?

 

~thunder~

wut?

NM

you broke my layout....

h4x0rz.

Either Utley's got Bo Jackson disease or you guys need some trade review.

goes by "JD" around here, but he won the league last year and finished 2nd by a 5 or less pts the first year, so he seems to have a plan. Actually he just really likes to trade....a lot. I didn't even initiate the trade.

(shrug)

on a 6-keeper league, I now have Pujols, Arod and Utley....if I could get Tulo back, I'd have my dream infield.

and I'll still finish in 4th (3 yrs running now).

It seemed slightly lopsided to me, but oh well.

Obama was part of a corrupt Blagovich administration for 8 years? huh?

"He wasn't a state senator for 8 years while Blagojevich was governor. You might want to check your math on that."

Straw man, you lose. Is that and the rest of it a quote from me or are you putting words in my mouth, because I never said anything remotely similar to what you claim? You might want to check your logic or imagination.

If you did want to do the math, I'd be more than happy to. Today the Governor of Illinois was arrested for trying to, among other things, sell Obama's seat to the United States Senate. Previous Governor George Ryan is sitting in jail. Barack Obama did nothing while he was a state politician for 8 years to prevent a "George Ryan" from happening again or to prevent to political corruption, waste, fraud, and abuse reported in newspapers every day. Barack Obama did NOTHING to Change Illinois. In light of today's events do you, an apparent newbie in paying attention to Illinois politics, contend that Barack Obama did something to Change Illinois?

My argument is perfectly valid and solid. You are just making stuff up and then arguing about that.

"Barack Obama did NOTHING to Change Illinois. In light of today's events do you, an apparent newbie in paying attention to Illinois politics, contend that Barack Obama did something to Change Illinois?"

Umm, Please find me one instance where Obama campaigned on the theme that he changed Illinois politics?

"My argument is perfectly valid and solid."

Well, actually, no. It lacks fact. It lacks knowledge of the role of a state or federal senator. It lacks an understanding of what Obama campaigned on or for. It lacks an understanding for the seperation between the judicial branch and the legislative branch.

The one thing it doesn't lack is partisan hackery.

Sigh.

#1. The "Change" that Obama ran on was not about corruption, it was about change in policy, and about ending partisan grid lock.

#2. While Obama certainly isn't a saint, and doesn't pretend to be one...There is no evidence that he has altered policy or financially benefited by corruption. He was very open with the Tribune about his dealings with Rezko that basically rendered the situation over as he didn't hide anything.

I hope Obama isn't corrupt. But assuming he is corrupt simply based on some loose associations with no direct ties or implications is sketchy at best. On the otherhand, I won't be so bold as to say that anyone isn't corrupt. Power corrupts, and to some people, it corrupts to the point of mental illness. I think a sickness is the only thing that can explain how completely out of touch with reality Blago was and his complete oblviousness to his dirt low approval ratings and the fact that the feds have been on his ass for years.

Barack Obama has sat idly by and done a thing to clean up politics in Illinois and it has gotten so bad that the sitting Governor is trying to sell a United States Senate seat. Being personally corrupt is not the same thing as watching it happen everywhere around you and not doing anything about it. What has Obama done about it? Nothing. Stick with the arguments people are actually making.

Make it stop. This is faulty logic.

12/09/08

the day ED comes to TCR.

no good shall come of this. heh...

I could have just gone this route

I don't get it...

I mean ED, looked around, dont' get what the angle there is....just to make up shit?

it's a complex subculture with it's own talk and familiar "memes."

it's getting more mainstream, but to the uninitiated most of ED will be insulting, revolting, wrong, and/or make no damn sense.

but to the uninitiated most of ED will be insulting, revolting, wrong, and/or make no damn sense.

A lot like Parachat.

I go with makes "no damn sense"...the only thing that revolts me is Chadball.

...and Dusty Baker still managing a professional baseball team.

Chadball has produced more World Series titles than any other baseball philosophy.

to give a more detailed answer...ED pretty much "organically" came about to consolidate various memes, sayings, beliefs, and weird senses of humors that spread across various unrelated (but similar user base attracting) message boards.

the language used on most of ED is weird-to-untranslatable without knowing the culture's talk and memes.

these are the people (not ED, but the people who spawn things like ED) that brought the world rick-rolling, lolcats, weird scientology protests, and other crap. they get a lot done for a group with no formal organization or central leader.

"rick-rolling, lolcats, weird scientology protests"

I must be really out of touch. I don't specifically know what any of those things are. Even though I know that rick-rolling has occurred here.

I don't specifically know what any of those things are. Even though I know that rick-rolling has occurred here.

My turn: No good can come of this.

Washington, I'm honestly at a complete loss for what you expected Obama to do as a state senator and then US senator regarding corruption in the Governors office.

These problems weren't a matter of congress turning the other cheek as far as any of us know. It wasn't a matter of some state laws that Obama could have changed. These were criminal matters that are in the hands of law enforcement officials...who in a couple cases including Rezko did get statements from Obama or members of Obama's staff.

As of this moment, there is ZERO implication that Obama was involved in this scheme in anyway, or had any direct knowledge of laws being broken. Without that information, as a senator, he has no power to do anything.

Maybe, one day, there will be information tying Obama to Balgovich....but based on the info we know now, the leaps that you and a few others are making is nothing more than a purely partisan witch hunt based on drawing a picture of what you want things to look like.

However, virtually all of your insinuations are not just baseless, it shows a complete lack of understanding of what Blagovich is being accused of, what Ryan was convicted of, and what power state or US senators have.

Again, maybe 3 years from now...you'll be right. maybe Obama is the devil, is corrupt as Blago and was intimately involved in exchanging favors for political support and contributions. But based on what anyone knows as of today, your insinuations are, to put it cleanly, garbage.

As State Senator or US senator, tell me in very specific terms what Obama could have done to stop either Ryan's corruption or Blagovich's corruption?

As US Senator there is really no official role that Obama can play in cleaning up state politics.

As State Senator, his only power is impeachment...but in order to impeach, you need some credible grounds to impeach on. Hence the reason for the federal investigation...and to this point, the prosecutors had not been able to get to Blagovich, so there isn't anything Obama or any of the other 150 state senators or reps could have done.

So,...you say he sat "idly by and did nothing". I want to know specifically, what Obama should have done given the information that you know for a fact that Obama had....and given the fact that Blago was not charged with anything until today.

"As State Senator or US senator, tell me in very specific terms what Obama could have done to stop either Ryan's corruption or Blagovich's corruption?"

I don't know, just spitballing here, but maybe call up the FBI or the local DA and say 'Hey, my govenor is soliciting and accepting bribes."

But again, as far as it is known, Obama had no knowledge or was not privvy to solicitations of bribery.

I'll say it again. Maybe based on future information that comes out, you guys will be proven right. But based on what anyone outside of the prosecutor knows now, you are making purely speculative partisan based leaps based on the fact that you personally don't like the guy.

It should also be mentioned that there is a possibility that Obama did provide information to the Feds at various points during their investigation. Blago and Obama never had a close or even cordial relationship. They operated in very different political circles, and blago didn't endorse Obama in the senate primary in 2004.

Again, what is so wrong with letting facts come out? The Prosecutor specifically said there is no implication that Obama had any knowledge or role, so why not wait and see where things come out before making ignorant, baseless and largely clueless accusations?

Well, let's look at what we do know.

1. Obama was a state senator under this rocket scientist for three years
2. Obama was an advisor to his election campaign (I am assuming first?)
3. Someone in Obama's 'team' was approached recently to see what could be had to appoint a preferred candidate to his vacated seat.

We also know that all the major news services are " making speculative partisan based leaps based on the fact that you personally don't like the guy".

1. Obama was a state senator under this guy for 3 years. Umm, yes. And without any known criminal acts, what exactly could Obama have done about it? You aren't seriously implying that every single state senator or congressman under a governor who committed a crime had implicit knowledge to stop that crime are you?

2. Obama was an advisor to his campaign? Probably one of a thousand, but even if he was the only one, how does that show Obama knew anything about Blago's criminal corruption?

3. All we know is that Blago was upset that Obama wouldn't give anything but "appreciation" for the appointment. We don't know if Blago said "Give me money and I'll appoint Jarret".

Actually, from EVERYTHING that I have read today, media has been going to great lengths to explain that there is no known tie between Obama and Blagovich and no known role in this corruption case. They do present some information in terms of questions that Obama needs to be answered, but in terms of media coverage, I haven't seen any implication that Obama had the chance to stop Blagovich, but didn't.

Obviously, there are partisan pundits who are leaping to the same conclusions as you (without first having the answers). And yes, they are also hacks.

OK, so you're going for option 2. Dolt.

You realize your credibility about the status of their relationship was flushed by not knowing about #2.

You're right, we don't know anything. It's possible that none of these things happened. It's also possible that Obama aided and abetted various transgressions. To jump down the throat of anyone who wants to raise the questions, besides being rabidly partisan, smacks of desperation.

We also now see that the voters of Illinois don't know their head from their hole when it comes to determining character of the people they put in office.

Oh BS. You weren't simply "raising questions". You and Washington were making gigantic leaps based on information you could not know and is not known, and making direct implications that Obama had either the knowledge of this corruption, or the power to stop it.

My credibility about Obama and Blagovich's relationship? What credability, when did I try to establish I was an expert on it? It has been well known and public for years that they don't get along. That's the only point I made.

Ed Rendell was a co-chair for Obama in Pennsylvania, yet it is also well known they can't stand eachother.

There is a big huge gigantic difference between saying "I wonder what Obama knows" and "Obama sat idly by and did nothing for years". A direct accusation and implication that Obama had implicit knowledge of these events and had a role in stopping them.

Not once have you seen me say "Obama is not corrupt and has no role in this". If you are now changing your tune, and now will say that you don't have enough information to make the series of accusations you made all through this thread about Obama being complicit in this...then I have no issue with you.
But that's not what you said, and I have a feeling that's not what you think.

Hi genius.

Go ahead and quote my "series of accusations you made all through this thread about Obama being complicit in this". This should be good.

FWIW, the rumor is that Rahm Emanuel tipped off the Feds on Blago's corruption around the selling of the Senate seat.

Emanuel's people have denied it, so who knows?

Barack Obama has sat idly by and [not] done a thing to clean up politics in Illinois

Not true, Washington.

First, Obama worked on ethics legislation as a state senator (as he later did in the US Senate). Second, and more importantly, check out this article in today's NY TImes today: "Obama’s Effort on Ethics Bill Had Role in Governor’s Fall."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/us/politics/10ch...

Washington, you wrote, "What has Obama done about it? Nothing." Sorry, but you are wrong.

One of those rare moments when three of my "enthusiasms"--the Cubs, politics, and scandal--fuse into one glorious moment. I wish I could freeze time for a moment and enjoy it some more.

Note to whoever writes the End of Year in Quotes for TCR, Patricia Blagojevech's "hold up that fucking Cubs shit...fuck them" needs to make the cut.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. Best quote of the year by far.

Just amazing. I am expecting the State Militia to launch a coup any moment now.

Bill Murray showing up at random parties in NY-

http://www.nypost.com/pagesixmag/issues/20081207/B...

well known a-hole.

article on bats, breakage, studies, and new measures for manufacturing...

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8918774/Upgrade...

from ye olde world o roto via fawx newz...

"Agent Paul Kinzer said the Dodgers, Blue Jays, Royals and A's are the four teams still in the mix for Rafael Furcal."

Well, Illinois is likely going to end up with Pat Quinn as their Governor. Chicago's very own Ralph Nader. The guy's a tool.

anything that enables Matt Gonzalez taking over Nader's top Green spot in 2012 is just fine by me.

Gore should takeover the Green Party's candidacy.

gore's far from a green-type candidate.

he's very corporate/business-friendly and relied on them throughout his political career.

I doubt the voters would care much about that. He's a name, he's associated with the primary green issue more closely than Nader ever was and he wouldn't be perceived as a novelty candidate.

if he pulled that, then he would finally get exposed for the two faced liar he is. He is awash in oil and by no means a true greeny.

he's a full of shit politician just like the rest of them.

i don't like Nader. I don't agree with him on anything. But at least i think he's honest and real.

"i don't like Nader. I don't agree with him on anything. But at least i think he's honest and real."

Ralph Nader has been carrying out a 30 grudge agtainst the Democratic Party because they wouldn't support him in 1980. He is a vile, bitter man, who runs every 4 years so he can keep getting paid for speeches in between. Running for president is an occupation and income source for him. (Alan Keyes also campaigns for president as an income source as well, although he is still paying off debt from his '96 campaign)

As for Gore, I'm obviously not going to convince you to like him or respect him politically, but Gore hasn't hidden from the fact that he has big business ties. If anything, that has made him more powerful and more able to make environmental changes and impact from the inside.

I thought Gore made a terrible candidate for president...but I do think Gore has had a profound impact on the world since 2000, and the world as a whole has progressed dramatically in terms of environmetal issues.

I wouldn't agree that he's made much of an impact outside of the US, where we still haven't signed onto the ... kyoto? accord.

gore is a f'n superstar outside the US.

asia...europe...guy gets serious press and travels/works. he's doing a lot even if the US press doesn't cover it much anymore. he's not sitting at his home sipping tea on the front porch.

And here I am thinking I've burned through two passport books since Gore ran for president.

Thanks for the catch, my bad.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200712110009

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2...

want more? want some nobel prize stuff? his travels in india? his praise and meetings with leaders in pretty much every country in europe?

does it matter most of this has happened within the last 4 years?

in conclusion...want more?

Sure.

I want you working with for internationals for five years who don't even know who Gore is, or may have seen his movie.

Gore's appreciation in international circles, is because they think he's having a great impact on America. That's even obvious in your articles.

Try to live life through something other than the internet.

i'll just get to the point instead of wasting words or anything resembling bringing more to the table...

you're a fucking idiot.

QQ

look guy...

you're always right and when you're not you change the subject. you fly off the handle and dream up things you're being accused of without checking. now, this is fine and it happens...only you have an attack-first policy where you lash out and defend stuff that don't need defending because these "conflicts" don't exist.

you also seem to have a knack for being presented with information backing up what's being said then totally pissing on it and going with what you want to believe anyway.

you have a huge presence built on insisting things and not only ignoring other people's side, but attempting to take them down as if you're being personally attacked.

there's a better response...it just took a little time.

i'm no angel myself, but hell man...i'll take responsibility when i say stupid shit without trying to constantly weasel out of it and attacking others.

Hey I just logged back on to apologize. I can see how reading those links you'll get the impression you've formed.

Let me elaborate. I've worked in London for a year, CPH for two years and worked at least one week in

Delhi, Singapore, Hong Kong, Shehnzhen, Taipei, Manila, Rio, Bremerhaven, Czech Republic, Warsaw and
Someplace else I forget off the top of my head

The projects I work on rarely have more than a couple Americans. I've been out drinking with locals and people from work in all of those countries and being an American they often want to talk politics with me - for some reason they don't care about Peavy's throwing motion. I chat with one or two of my friends just about every day.

So say I've talked to maybe 300 people from all the continents besides Antartica, both college educated professionals and locals who I could barely communicate with. Not once has Gore's name ever been brought up. So to describe him as a "rock star", well it's not really grounded in the reality of the situation as I've seen it.

I'm not saying I'm smarter than you or more educated than you or my opinion counts for more than yours. Just as I'm pretty sure you've said on this board before, when you get information, you've got to judge the source of that information, and those links you've provided, they're not anywhere nearly as good a source as I have, in this case.

You could probably troll around the internet a bit and find international chat boards about US Politics and eco stuff, see how often Gore is mentioned. Michael Moore and Barrack Obama are way way way more relevant to the international community at large than Gore is.

it's not the links...i'm not alone in the view...

it's a pretty "given" view that al gore is a LOT more popular overseas than here.

it's got nothing to do with me...it's got nothing to do with you.

al gore is pretty damn popular overseas and a lot more than stateside for years. he's all over their media...he works there...he's doing his thing...

just because you don't see that doesn't mean it's not happening.

it's not about you...i know that might be hard for you to get.

Well, you can't say I didn't try.

yes, you tried to push your 1-man view as being superior to the world view. it's been done before. it's one of your common end-games. "i've experienced this therefore it is."

Neal, having lived in Ukraine for a year, you can add that to the list of places where I've heard nothing about Al Gore. Bill/Hillary Clinton and Obama, however....although most people there were convinced Obama didn't have a chance in hell during the election despite the polls because we were all a bunch of closet racists.

-1.

and I've been counting, current historical totals.

Arizona Phil +1000, Carlos +300, Transmission +250

the rest of us...

Chad -500, Manny -1000, Silent Towel -3000

but seriously, less insults...more boobs.

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What am I at + 250 for?

 

Whatever it is, it violates my rule:  Never be directly behind Carlos for ANYTHING.

Except head.

f that! i'm +1,000,000

he's just not a very green candidate and it would definitely create some issues with the leadership over name recognition to the party vs. substance of the candidate supporting the party.

if the hypothetical did become some real reality it wouldn't be smooth (or predictable) given gore's strong ties to the world corporate scene.

he's not as liberal as some people like to think he is and greens, especially, tend to be torn over whether he's worthy of praise on his latest "eco-warrior" phase without even getting him mixed up in their own party politics.

I will agree with you that he and the green party wouldn't make good bed fellows. I don't think Gore would think that either.

I don't think Gore ever presented himself as very liberal. He did, however, take the lead in the 80's on the impact of man on the environment. But he has always taken the tactic that you can make change in environmental issues without making grand economic sacrificies. That's what his whole carbon offset campaign is about. You can make a mess, you just need to offset it by cleaning it up. (I have issues with carbon offsets, but that's for another discussion).

Again, I think Gore's power on this issue over the last 8 years comes from his knowledge and relationships with big business and industry....and I think it's lead to many big businesses becoming very green friendly overnight when they saw the profits that could be made by taking the lead on the issue.

He's a name, he's associated with the primary green issue more closely than Nader ever was and he wouldn't be perceived as a novelty candidate.

You don't know much about the Green Party, do you? It isn't just about environmental issues. That is just one part.

One can be green and be corporate/business friendly. The two do not necessarily contradit one another.

yeah, but gore's track record isn't exactly green-friendly.

much like john kerry in 04 people were blown away they were pushing gore to liberals because of his intense corporate connections and voting records.

from gore's internet busting "new" telecom laws he supported (after he invented it, hah) to his support of NAFTA and many points in between...he's not green, imo.

definitely not. I'm assuming you mean the TCOM Act of 1996 the bill that Clinton/Gore composed which pretty much ruined contemporary radio and broadcasting in general. Hello Clear Channel, Emens and other monopolies...good bye any taste, originality and diversity. Yes, certainly not a Green. Nader advocated against all of that legislation.

Nader should be bitter, just look at what the Demos have tried to do to squash the lowly Green Party candidates in Chicago. (hail Jason Farbman) but yeah Gore isn't our type, kind of a fraud imo. I respect some of what he's accomplished but we don't want him. I want SF's Matt Gonzalez as our frontman in 2012. I'd only want Nader elected in some sort of consumer relations position, that's really his only valuable skill.

Things not yet discussed in this thread, but that the guiding logic of the thread suggest are not far off on the horizon..

  • Racism
  • Homophobia
  • Sexism
  • Creationism
  • JFK Assassination
  •  Kellie Pickler
  • Pornography
  • Heinie Massman
  •  The Iraq War
  •  Torture
  • Sabrmetrics
  •  Obscure, esoteric bands
  • Other Cubs Bloggers
  • Alternative Medicine

*spits*

well lookie here.

it's the college boy.

son, you don't come around here much to more now do ya?

*spit*

btw, you bringing up racism is interesting. god didn't put us here on this planet to put up with homos like you. it's terrorist commie nazis like you that want to kill whitey (just like they did with JFK and our brave soldiers in Iraq) and threaten our women like kellie pickler. hell, i bet you're wetting your lips dreaming about S&M torture porn you'd like to inflict on kellie while listening to the arcade fire on your ipod.

if you think you that's gonna happen on my watch you better grab an organic black currant tea enema to clear out that bullshit you and guys like al yellon seem to be inflicted with.

btw, fuck heinie massman. peace out.

*clap* *clap* *clap*

I've never heard a single song of theirs, but everything I indirectly know about Arcade Fire forces me to conclude they're over-rated.

 

You obnoxious hippy jackass.

 

If I wasn't so busy doing whatever-the-latest-euphemism-from-carlos is to whomever's-mother-it-is-we're-picking-on-today, I'd run over to whatever shitty state that it is that you live in, and put Gay Witchcraft BEES! in your pants.

 

Little known fact:  All left-fielders are muslim.

 

 

 

 

A) Taco-stuffing
B) Still Johann's mom

*cries*

WORDS HURT, MAN!

...words hurt...

*more crying*

No, words don't hADAM DUNN.

If you like early (80-83)U2 and Kid A era Radiohead then you'll like Arcade Fire. Otherwise they're French Canadian and like all French Canadians they should be ignored.

Gay witchcraft?

Why didn't Noah take the unicorn on the ark?

Re: Other Cubs Bloggers

That guy over at BCB -- well, yeah, Al Yellon, whatever, posted this tonight:

"… I think refraining from any political comments here would be the right thing to do.

If this post degenerates into that sort of discussion, it will be deleted."

And to think that he got mad at me once for calling him Blog Nazi.

You're late to the Godwin game my Mexican friend. I hit that HOURS ago.

Redundant, since according to Oliver Stone all of those can be reduced back to the JFK assassination. Yes, even Sabrmetrics.

I've been around awhile on this good earth, and I'm detecting some drinking goin' on round here. Meanwhile, this whole Peavy thing is making the Brian Roberts vaporware look like a quick spit in the wind. Thank God for people like Blogovich or whatever the fuck his name is, for taking y'all minds off this Peavy horseshit.

post of the year nominee. hehe.

"to hold up that fucking Cubs shit. . . fuck them."
Okay, forgive my ignorance... this is satire or real?

*sigh*

The poor White Sox never get the attention the Cubs do.

real

google it

i'll see her next tuesday

you will see mrs. blago next week?

not exactly

I'm sorry Rob, but I LOVE this thread. It's like a little taste of a warm summer Parachat in the dead of winter. It's EXACTLY what I needed.

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btw...props to trans for actually cruising through 50+ pages off legal b/s to bring the details.

honk.

sent sound: thunder

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Try 80.

 

But thanks.  :)

Trans, no DS9 on that list? WTF?

I really miss DS9.....

Greed is a revolting act that could get you into a lot of trouble down the line – I’m sure Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich would agree. Blagojevich was arrested early Tuesday, December 9th, on federal corruption charges related in part to the selection of President-elect Barack Obama's successor to the Senate. Shockingly, this is the second time in a row that an Illinois governor has been arrested on federal charges. Illinois' 39th governor, George Ryan, was also charged for political corruption and has served little more than a year of his 6 1/2-year sentence. Much like Ryan, Blagojevich saw an opportunity to use his power to leverage benefits for himself by attempting to sell the senate seat. According to the news, Blagojevich was hoping to get a significantly higher salary, a position on the board for his wife, a cabinet post and more in his senate replacement bargain. His greed caught up with him. The FBI has filed a seventy-six page indictment against both Blagojevich and Harris. Apparently his devious deed was caught on tape through a court ordered wire tap last month. The governor is declaring his innocence, professing that everything he said, both in public and in private, has always been lawful. Click to learn more about Blagojevich, courtesy of Personal Money Store's Payday Loan News.

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