Winter Meetings 2008 Day 3

10:32 PM CST: Here's a new name in the mix, Chone Figgins, from an article in the LA Times blog. Apparently the Cubs have asked the LA Angels of Anaheim about the leadoff batting, switch hitting, infielder/outfielder. The Angels don't have a good idea of what they would want in return until they get beyond the possibilities regarding Mark Texeira or a new closer such as Brian Fuentes. File this under good stuff that could get put in the ol' Christmas stocking on Dec. 24th. (Cubster)

9:40 PM CST: Jayson Stark writes that the Peavy deal "doesn't seem so inevitable anymore," adding that all the reports of the Cubs' willingness to move Mark DeRosa have really chummed the trade waters:

Since word leaked out that DeRosa might be available, the Cubs have
been bombarded with calls from other clubs interested in DeRosa. So
some of those teams report that Cubs GM Jim Hendry is telling them he
might deal DeRosa separately, but he doesn't really want to deal him at
all. So that, said one source, "has opened up a whole 'nother can of


9:20 PM CST: Bruce Levine with his evening update on the show (ESPN 1000) with Carmen and J. Hood said that Kevin Towers, if he does get Jason Marquis, expects that he can flip him in a secondary trade for additional prospects or more cash. Apparently Hendry and Towers met for 90 minutes earlier this evening and if a deal gets accomplished he doesn't expect it to be announced until late weekend or early next week, if you include physicals and possible ownership signoff issues.  (Cubster)

6:47 PM CST: Levine must have been at the same lunch as Bruce Miles, but he got that a deal for an outfielder should be done very soon, either Raul Ibanez or Milton Bradley, with the odds favoring Bradley. (Rob G.)

5:07 PM CST: The rumor queen is back saying that, oh just maybe they will move DeRosa in the right deal. She then regurgitates a Steve Phillips story that the deal could be DeRosa to the Phils for Happ or pitcher Carlos Carrasco and shortstop Jason Donald and then those two prospects plus Felix Pie, Josh Vitters and Jason Marquis (and you have to assume cash) to the Padres for Peavy.

- Bruce Miles says that Randy Johnson is still very much in play if the Peavy deal doesn't happen, the Twins and a number of other teams are interested in DeRosa if he is available and Gabor might be back as an NRI this spring competing for the backup catcher job. Lou also said he believes the left-handed hitting outfielder will come to the Cubs via free agency and not trade. (Rob G.)

3:03  PM CST: All kinds of bullshit floating around now...

We've got BP and Jon Heyman saying the Cubs need to move Marquis and his contract before finishing the Peavy trade.

- A few odd WSCR radio reports that Hendry is just keeping the trade talks alive as a favor to Towers in hopes that another team will swoop in. I can't say that makes an ounce of sense. Followed by another WSCR radio report that Towers may just keep Peavy. Always a good time to point out that WSCR's sources are trained monkeys living at the L-station stop on Addison.

- Muskat-love says DeRosa is staying put.

- Sullivan can't get anything out of Hendry and throws a monkey wrench in there with, "According to some reports, manager Lou Piniella said
the Cubs have little interest in Peavy, which is contrary to everything
that has been said and written over the last two months."
He also mentions that some think the Padres are trying to move Peavy before he blows out his elbow, not because they need the money.

He says Sean Marshall is off the table but Josh Vitters is in and Marquis needs to be moved. Then throws in some stuff on the outfielders.

- Heyman also had a note saying the Mets asked the Cubs about some of their relief pitchers (shrug). (Rob G.)

1:52 PM CST: Bruce Levine has a blog?  Claims the current deal being discussed is DeRosa to the Phils for Happ and a second prospect and then sending Happ, Vitters, Hart and Marquis plus $3-4M for Peavy. It makes it sound like the Cubs would keep the 2nd pitching prospect from the Phils.

Levine also mentions a possible trade in the works for an outfielder.

The Kerry Wood deal sounds likes it's going to be 2/20 with some sort of option and they're just waiting for the physical. (Rob G.)


10:28 AM CST: Twins may take the Phillies spot in the Peavy trade and get DeRosa. 

- Bruce Levine says the deal is 2/21 for Wood with a third year option, supposedly a vesting option. (Rob G.)

7:00 AM CST UPDATE: Looks like the Brewers are about to become about 300 pounds less formidable.


in which we do not bring up ED, Obama, the soon-to-be ex-Illinois Governer or Al Gore...

- Jayson Stark says there's no way a deal will get done by Thursday. Of course, Towers has already said it doesn't need to be done by Thursday, the Padres just wants their to be progress. Stark does say that it's possible that it will just be the Cubs and Padres.

- The San Diego Union-Tribune now says
the Padres do like J.A. Happ and possibly a lower-level pitching
prospect. An earlier post (same link) says the Cubs have pulled Sean
Marshall out of the talks and want the Padres to take Jason Marquis.
Padres would want at least half of Marquis' contract paid for by the

- Paul Sullivan has a Philly source that insists a deal is in place with them if the Cubs are willing to sign off on it. He also talked to Crane Kenney and says any prospective owners are fully aware about Peavy's contract and its impact on the Cubs budget. Sullivan mentions that the deal would be the Cubs sending DeRosa to the Phils for the 2 pitching prospects and then Marquis and the 2 pitching prospects to San Diego, although it seems like he's missing a few players.

Sullivan also says talks are heating up with Milton Bradley and the Cubs would like to acquire a left-handed hitting outfielder before completing the Peavy deal.

- Bruce Miles and Wittenmyer  with pretty much the same stories, although Wittenmyer mentions a Philly source that doesn't think the Cubs will include DeRosa and that the Phillies have interest in other Cubs players.

- It's all but official that Kerry Wood has signed with the Indians for two years with a third year vesting option. (Rob G.)


Sensible reasons for taking Sean Marshall off the table? Nah, I can't think of any either. Unless, of course, the Padres didn't want him.

sensible reason would be that you'll need someone to pitch when (not if) some of our pitchers get hurt. The other sensible reason is we don't know the other players involved yet, so the Cubs may be feeling they're giving up too much.

harden...and as much as i hate to say it...Z is looking vulnerable.

i dunno if angel guzman can be counted on to start...or at least go more than 80-100 pitches. it really depends on how they use them and loosen him up during spring i guess.

at this point i'm not counting on rich hill to even break with the team. he's having a really shitty winter ball after a pretty mediocre 08 minor league season.

I think Guzman and Hill both belong firmly in the Wood&Prior - it's OK to have them, but don't count on anything at all from them spots on the roster.

rosenthal says the deal gets closer.

Should I freeze my hard on?

Well it's already old and blue, a little cold probably won't hurt much.

$8MM/year to Kerry Wood, or $4-5MM/year to Gregg, I don't get it. Wood is a much better pitcher than Gregg, certainly worth a $3-4MM/year premium. All I can figure is that the Cubs weren't confident they could rely on Wood's physical condition over time, an understandable flinch given the Cubs' history with Wood.

Question: Should the Cubs be interested in Trevor Hoffman??

2yr/16m for wood?

that sounds like a relative bargain if true.

...was expecting somewhere in the 2-3 year, 10 per area.

either way it's gonna be odd seeing wood in anything but a cubs uniform.

I know I'm a getting a little old, but, damn, my pants are wet, thanks to all close to Peavy talk. I mean, seriously, we are not talking about urine. I know I'm old. No. We are talking about Semen. With a capital S. Semen. This is where I am right now with Peavy. I am cumming in my pants.

Wow. That was way more graphic than it really needed to be.

Okay. Enough with the jokes.

You know what an old fuck thinks? I think, a sinker ball pitcher like Lowe would be awesome in Wrigley and he would be a lot nastier than a dude like Peavy if he can keep his arm out of a sling (where is the proof that Peavy won't?), and trading half of humanity for a dude who might break down is stupid as stupid gets.

Hire Lowe, if you think your pitching staff needs a stud. For god's sake, the dude would be nasty in wrigley, even (especially) if he is old.

lordy, why is this so hard?

Shit. Oh crap. I think I just shat in my pants again.

Old and Blue.... lay off the sauce brotha!

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 12/10/2008 - 1:33am.

harden...and as much as i hate to say it...Z is looking vulnerable.

i dunno if angel guzman can be counted on to start...or at least go more than 80-100 pitches. it really depends on how they use them and loosen him up during spring i guess.


CRUNCH: Angel Guzman has been used exclusively as a starter so far in Veneszuela (7 GS), although of course that doesn't mean he won't work out of the bullpen with the Cubs in 2009. But at least Gooz is another option for the rotation next season if one is needed.

It would probably be a good idea to keep either Samardzija, Marshall, or Hart "stretched out" at Iowa in case somebody is needed to replace a starter who goes on the DL and there isn't time to get one of the relievers back on a starter's program. Mitch Atkins should be available for an emergency recall, too, but he has no MLB experience.

The Cubs better not be going into 2009 expecting anything out of Rich Hill (headcase) or Angel Guzman (injury prone). That could be a big mistake. Z, Peavy, Lilly, Harden and Marshall (Smorezjia & Hart waiting in the wings) is how they should go if they land Peavy and dump Marquis.

You forgot Dempster.

/but Guz is getting pounded down there. 35 hits in 26 innings. Less than 4 IP per start. 5.54 ERA.

Although I love all of the news coming out of the winter meetings, it also drives me nuts. Yesterday, it was reported that Sabathia was done with the Yanks and was leaning toward the Giants. Today, CC is on the verge of signing with the Yanks and the Giants are saying they won't offer him six years.

Likewise, the on again-off again Peavy deal is frustrating. One minute the deal is imminent, the next it is on hold awaiting new ownership of the team. Frustrating...

I know these reporters all want to get a scoop, but it would be nice if they once-in-a-while got something right.

"I know these reporters all want to get a scoop, but it would be nice if they once-in-a-while got something right."

I wonder how many of them are even in Las Vegas.

I hate the guy, but have to admit Lowe is looking like a good value-for-money guy right now.

Have we traded for that G. H. Ruth kid yet?

Heard B. Levine about ten minutes ago. Probably reiterates what is said, but, indeed, Towers has agreed to take Marquis in a deal - if the Cubs eat "about half" of his salary. He stated Crane Kenney talked to reporters and in need be, he would go to the prospective new owners to get the ok on more $$ should it be required, to pull the trigger.

From this, I would deduce that Marshall would be "saved" in this scenario, which is probably a good thing.

Who the hell knows how anything else shakes out.

IMO, the only thing that comes to mind when I think about Jake Peavy being part of the staff is - we really do not have one pitcher that the opposition says, "Oh Shit...", when they know they'd have to face him.

We've got one pitcher like that, unfortunately it's when he's in the batter's box.

Seriously, though, when Zambrano is throwing strikes and Harden's shoulder isn't throbbing there's not a lot of lineup that are salivating to face them.


Unfortunately, their consistency has not been quite on the same par with Peavy, I don't think.

One thing that I have been thinking about, is how will the WBC effect the "Aces" in MLB again? IIRC, their stats were hurt when they returned from the extra innings.

Radio reports in Chicago indicate that Guzman has been hitting 96 Venezuela this winter, and that his name has been mentioned in the Peavy Saga.

According to Bruce Levine
Wood signs 2 year $ 21 million contract with option for third with Cleveland.


Did he say if the third year was a vesting or a team option?

Radio report just saying "option"

Steve Phillips reports Orioles sign Izzy.

Chad weeps.


I heard that the Izturis signing was pending a physical. Hopefully they won't check for things like short and slow in the physical.

That's a shocker. Hendry said the Cubs weren't interested in signing Wood because KW wanted a 3 or 4 year deal.

""I think we all feel that Kerry is certainly deserving of a three- or four-year contract," Hendry said. "He's done everything this organization has asked for the last 14 years, been a warrior the last couple of years. He's come back and health-wise stood the test of time, taken the ball every day we needed, and had no hang-ups, except for (missing one month with a blister injury).

"We're just in a situation, as Kerry fully understands, that that length of deal, for the kind of salary he'd command right now, is not our first priority. We certainly have to finish our rotation, we have offensive situations to address, and by having the prominence that (Carlos) Marmol now brings to the table, it certainly doesn't come before the other needs we have. We felt it was time Kerry goes out and does what's best for him and his family, and gets a huge multi-year deal if possible."

I personally would say "Oh, shit..." when facing Big Z, Harden, and/or Peavy no matter who I was (in instances like the Real Neal mentioned). And Dempster and Lilly aren't slouches either, especially for a 4 & 5. If we get Peavy, it's beautiful to think that the opposition will have to face at least one of our 3 beasts. (I hate "ifs"--get it done, Jim!)

No doubt, either Demp or Lilly are passable #3 pitchers. Last year Demp pitched like an ace... to think they could be pitching #4 & #5 is solid, let's not kid ourselves.

I seem to recall feeling this exact same way in February 2004, but back then it was Zambrano who was our #4 behind Prior, Wood, and Maddux. We all know how that worked out.

Don't get me wrong, I still love the thought of a Peavy, Z, Harden, Dempster, Lilly rotation, but each of those guys but Lilly has a few question marks regarding injuries. It would only take a little bit of bad luck to have more than one of those guys go down for an extended period of time, and we would have to be incredibly lucky to have them all stay healthy for the whole season.

I sure hope there's some money left to upgrade the offense, because we're likely not catching lightning in a bottle twice with a surprise 20 HRs out of someone like Edmonds.

As a baseball fan it's sort of a shame to see a complete player (insert player and a half? joke here) like Sabathia back in the DH league.

Can anyone remember if, overall, the MLB pitchers returning from the WBC had worse ERA's or Era+ than their means in previous years? Was there a spike?

E-man, here is an article by Nate Silver on this:

Not a big fan of that one. I probably would have preferred comparing career or previous season ERA's, for the month of April to the month of April actual stats.

I haven't ever seen it studied, but I know I've heard it 1000 times how Latin American players don't like playing in April.

So you have not come upon anything of this type? It would be interesting...

Nope - it's a lot of work! He should have used an ERA measurement that takes out luck to compare them to, too, since PECOTA does that.

Peavy and Zambrano both had years worse than their previous ones, though. Santana, who they also mentioned was fine, just had a bad April. I would guess that they'd both be prime candidates for their teams next year too.

As I recall, wasn't there a strict pitch limit? I wonder if they will consider adjusting?

Some of the other teams from around the globe take the WBC more seriously than we - and their coaches feel the pressure.

There were pitch limits, and I think the Japanese were the only team that consistently hit them. Silver's theory is that it got them out of their routines. They should run it more like the ASG if that's the case, let the pitchers stay with their teams except when they pitch. No practice necessary.

It would probably be a good idea to ask the Peavys and Zambranos if they think there's any change that could help them stay in alignment for their regular season starts.

Zambrano said he's not playing this year.

not that he can't change his mind...

Thank you WISCGRAD. I appreciate it.

Nate Silver, "These are very disturbing numbers."

Jesus, this is really a compelling "study".

From this "sample" - pitching depth - six bona fide major leaguers, really is an advantage even more during the WBC years, it would seem.

Hill and Guzman are both fool's gold options right now. Neither has the sustained track record to raise expectations.

When the Gooz isn't busy visiting doctors and training rooms, he's shown a repertoire of nasty pitches to go with a middle-schooler's understanding of how to get MLB hitters out. I don't know if I've ever seen a bigger disparity between stuff and acumen than I've seen with the Gooz. Obviously, he needs innings at the big league level to work on his trade, but it's hard to do it when your arm is perpetually in a sling, a splint, an aircast, a plaster cast, welded sheet metal, gauze, duct tape, etc.

Hill, unfortunately, probably shouldn't even be part of the conversation. His Blass Attack shows no signs of going anywhere, which means he's one step away from catching on in Orioles' or Reds' organizations.

Peavy has medical issues, but what pitcher doesn't? Quick, name all the perennial Cy Young Award candidates the Cubs have acquired while still in their 20s? So we might have to give up some farm guys. Meh. Quick, name all the great position player farm guys that have starred on the Cubs in the past 30 years? Grace? Dunston? One year of Soto? Pretty thin gruel. Get Peavy. Sign Bradley. Make a minor deal for a loogy. Done.

I'm a little troubled by the 'beacuse Earl Cunningham didn't work out, Josh Vitters won't work out' argument.

The Fontenaught

All played roles in our winning the division last year, and except Zambrano, they did it realitively cheaply. You can't fill up your starting 8 and rotation with $15 million players. Throw a ghetto $8 million bench and bullpen on top of that and it's $203 million in payroll. Even larger market teams like the Cubs and the Red Sox need RoY candidates to be good.

*edit- Math is hard.

Other than Smadjizza and Fontenot who came via trade. Not a single guy on that list has been drafted by the Cubs since 2002. And both of those guys were College "Finished" products that took 4-5 years to make it to the Bigs.

To say that the Cubs player development program is serviceable, would be a slap in the face to the service industry as a whole.

"To say that the Cubs player development program is serviceable, would be a slap in the face to the service industry as a whole."

Geez - I think this is being a bit harsh Doc. Did you happen to catch WISCGRAD's list of Hendry's acquisitions and signings since his tenure? Some of our developed players have been used in trades in the search for the elusive "win it now" prize.

I like Wilkens a heck of a lot better than the last guy. But it really is too early to pass judgement. Vitters obviously is liked well enough to trade an Ace for in part - it says something.

and I miss Kerry Woods


YEs. We all miss Kerry Wood. Hopefully he gets plenty of saves against the Sox again for the Tribe.

And I'm a little troubled by the fact you say Earl Cunningham didn't work out. That's like saying Lance Dickson didn't work out. Or Brooks Kieschnick. Or Ty Griffin. Or...well, I could go on.

All the guys you listed helped out last season, no question. As did Hee Seop Choi. And Bobby Hill. And Eric Patterson. And a few other once-touted prospects who helped bring established talent onto the roster.

Maybe Vitters is one of these guys, too. If he's the crown jewel that lands a perennial Cy Young Award candidate entering his age 28 season, I can live with that. Or maybe Vitters becomes this era's Palmeiro (minus the little blue pill pimping and the 'Roids scandal) and Peavy is Jose "the wrong Juan" Guzman. Ya gotta give to get, especially in this holiday season.

The Cubs just don't have a real good recent track record of picking and/or developing high-level position players. Maybe Vitters is the exception to the rule. But the way this team is currently constructed, we don't have a lot of time to find out. They need to follow Sensei Lou's "Strike hard, strike first" approach and see how far this current lot can take them.

Well said Joe.

The reality of the situation is that both Lou and Crueller Jim will both probably be gone before Vitters is a relevent MLB player. Of he could turn into Felix Pie and end up a throw in on another deal?

Vitters thus far has shown the same scary tendency that seems to effect every single big hype cubs prospect. He has Zero plate discipline. Maybe he bucks the trend and learns it. But Harvey,Dopirak,Patterson,Pie never could in this system. So at this point the odds are probably against it happening here.

Getting traded to another ML system could be the best thing to happen to this kid?

Is there a team that's won the WS - or even been in the playoffs without having home developed talent as a considerable part of roster?

I mean, I put the numbers right there, guys. Do you think the Cubs are going to have a $200+ million roster in two years? Since the late 80's when FA' salaries started to skyrocket no team has ever been able to rape their farm system and win consistently. It's just third grade math, it cannot be done.

What's going to happen when Theriot, Marmol and Soto hit arbitration? You've got to have cheap good pre-arb players on your roster, if you want to be in the playoffs.

What's your plans for 2011? Soto's making $4 million, Theriot if he's playing like he did last year $6 million, Fontenaught $3 million, Marmol's making $6 million, you've got to move Ramirez to first because he can't field any more, so now who's your third basemen? Kevin Orie? Who's your 4th starter? It's not Ted Lilly for $15 million a year.

I understand the 'Win now' mentality and in certain cases it's a good idea. AramRam and Lofton trade = Good idea. Garciapara trade = Good idea. The Cubs can win the division with the roster they have right now. Peavy adds very little to our likelihood of making the 2009 playoffs, very little to our chances of succeeding in the 2009 playoffs but he subtracts a lot from our chances for the 2011 to 2005 playoffs if he costs us Vitters.

These are excellent points.

It is my sense that Hendry values pitching above anything else by a significant margin.

I could hear him saying something in a press conference such as, "When you have a shot at getting a Cy Young pitcher, in his prime, and one of the top 5 pitchers in the National League, you do it."

I would be sad to see Vitters go when he has been so highly touted, and, A-Ram's contract is expiring right at the time he could get the shot.

Wouldn't be better to save that bullet to fill an actual need, though? Say Aramis tears a quad in July. Sure you've got Peavy, but he's got another NTC clause.

I'm all for having a good farm system. But Jim Hendry obviously DOESNT care about the system right now.

Exhibit A that he doesn't care? Not offering Arbitration to KW

If we are going all out to win a WS this year. Then throw caution to the wind and do it.

You can worry about the system later. When new owners are in place to actually care about the future, beyond 2009

Fortunately Harden could be a big deadline trade chip. Maybe the Cubs stretch out Samarzipan and he proves he's got that elusive third pitch, then we can afford to trade Harden for maybe a SS or CF, or just prospects, and maybe even trim some payroll.

the 04 Red Sox were pretty damned close.

Yeah my quick memory check on them had Youkalis playing a more significant role. They sort of pulled Ortiz out of their ass too.

Who was their GM, Elton John?

I have to strongly agree with Neal on this whole Peavy acquisition. Would he be nice to have? Hell yes, after we get a real leadoff hitter (Brian Roberts) and a LH RF (Bradley or Abreu). THEN, if there's still money and prospects left for Peavy, by all means go ahead and get him. As for budgets and money due in 2012, I could care less. The Tribune bought this team in 1981 for $20 million and will sell it for over $750 million. We don't have to hold a bake sale for them or whoever buys the team. You shouldn't be bidding on a team in the 3rd largest metro market in the USA and then expect a payroll from a mid or minor market city.

Marquis might be overpaid for a 5th starter this year, but he's taken the ball over 60 times the last two years with his team winning over half his starts, hurling 375+ innings, and an ERA under 4.65 -- and he's a FA after this year. He won't have $60M due into 2013 like Peavy.

How about a lineup of Roberts leading off, a Theriot/Johnson/Fukudome combo batting 2nd & 8th, and Soriano, Lee, Ramirez, Bradley, and Soto batting 3rd-7th in some combination. A rotation of Z, Harden, Lilly, Dempster, and Marquis with either Marshall, Guzman, or Samardzija available to fill a rotation spot if necessary/injury.

I'm not against trading Vitters or any prospect, but not now and not for the 3rd or 4th biggest need at this time.

Good point.

Even though you can never have too much pitching, the Cubs certainly seem to have enough, given the strength of the central division.

Consider this though, neither Z nor Harden looked too good at the end of the season. Perhaps Hendry knows a bit more about the condition of certain tendons, ligaments, labrums, pulleys and sprockets than the rest of us.

I think its quite possible that Hendry does not expect one or both of them to be able to go the whole season. I dont either. And that is why more pitching is project #1.

How can anyone be looking forward to Fukudome batting next year? If history is a guide, Fukudome is going to have a worse year in 2009.

The concept of applying many similar players to project the success of one player is black magic at best. The idea that you can look at 7 players who happen to be from the same country to forecast Fukudome's statistics in his second season is... well... let's just say you won't be getting any book deals with it.

"'s hard to do it when your arm is perpetually in a sling, a splint, an aircast, a plaster cast, welded sheet metal, gauze, duct tape, etc."

HAHA. Sad but true...

Our "Golden Boy"

LAst year - I believe it may have been against the Brew - CUBSTER and I were at a game where he came out in relief for two innings. The first inning he was truly dominant - the next inning (why Lou didn't just take his winnings and walk away, I don't know...) he got absolutely hammered.

I agree - How can he get any innings at the MLB level if he's ALWAYS hurt?

just for Grins:

Zambrano- Venezuela 1997
Cedeno- venezuela 1999
Soto- Puerto Rico 2001
Theriot- College LSU 2001
The Fontenaught- College LSU 2001 trade with Baltimore in 2005
Hoffpauir- College Lamar 2002
Smardizija- ND Signability 5th round pick. we all know the story
Marmol- Dominican Republic 1999
Pie- Dominican Republic 2001
Weurtz- Drafted 1997

This may be 3/44 territory, but a shout out to TCR and DC Tom for being in the USA Today sports page today.


I was just getting ready to post it also. It is on page 3C of the Sports page of the USA Topday. Couldn't find it on the website. It has DC Tom quoted and attributed to The Cub Reporter talking about Santo not getting in the Hall.

That's great! Not 3/44 to me. Please post the link (again).

supposedly a 5/80 deal on the table for Burnett from the Braves...not smart.$80M-offer-to-Burnett

MLBTraderumors says that Heyman from SI says the Cubs and Mets have discussed the Cubs trading them relievers. I thought we were in the trading for market.

good time to point out that Heyman is bloody awful imho...

for example...

A significant hurdle for the Cubs is that they want to pare some payroll before agreeing to take on Peavy, and that likely will entail moving starting pitcher Jason Marquis, who made almost $10 million last year.
Marquis made $6.375M last year. I'm sure he meant this year.

also the Peavy talks were on "life support" on Sunday....

working a link, but i read it in the actual newspaper (i'm traveling on business)

I'm not sure if you can get a weblink for USA Today. What did it say?

Day 3 sure is boring, btw....

lets in a few more Internet writers...

wow..and a transexual to boot.

it's a progressive day for BBWAA all around.

Honestly, as much as we all love DeRosa and his flexibilty, he's had one good year and if they do in fact get another OF then there isn't a need for him to play the outfield. So packaging DeRosa and Marquis out of town to obtain yet another ace is great. I am not confident that Dempster will repeat his dominating year. Lilly and Harden contracts come off the books after next year so Peavy's contract won't be that bad and having him with Zambrano and Dempster will be solid three for the next few years. These 5 years (2007-2011) are our window to win. So who cares about Vitters if we win a championship! So go for it!

However, nobody mentions the fact that our biggest compepition for the division the Brewers are screwed they will lose Sheets too and their starting rotation is going to be crap. We are in very good shape to win the division so building for the best team to shut down people in the playoffs is essential.

If we are pateince witih the outfielder we will get a good deal on a Ibanez, Bradley, Dunn or Abreu.

DeRosa has only had one good year?

I thought Lilly was on a four year deal. Shows what I know.

Lilly is on a 4-year deal, isn't he?


I want Lowe!

Wscr reporting Peavey deal not immenient.

One source told WSCR that Hendry is doing Towers "a favor" to keep deal alive so another team might jump in to get Peavey.

WKRP reporting:

-Peavy deal may or may not happen.

-Kerry Wood is apparently not comming back to Chicago next year.

-Lou is looking for a Left Handed bat for right field

-Jim Hendry is in fact in Las Vegas right now

-Barrack Obama has indeed won the presidential election

They are going to have more after commercial break.

"One source told WSCR that Hendry is doing Towers "a favor" to keep deal alive so another team might jump in to get Peavey."

This doesn't make sense.

It has been widely reported, with the player's NTC, he only wants to play for the Cubs.

So the "keeping alive for another team..." just doesn't wash.

New WSCR report states that Towers now might keep Peavey and try again at trade deadline next season.

can you go back to listening to ESPN1000? WSCR reports don't mean much....

Sorry, I like Boers and Bernstein the afternoon guys.

They are getting reports from the meetings from mental midget Jesse Rogers.

I will go iternet silent until I hear something good.

Jesse Rogers was the reporter that asked Alfonseca about his extra "sixth" finger, "How did you get that, anyway...?"

I think the whole 3rd/4th team angle makes the Peavy rumors more annoying than last year's Roberts rumors, and that's really saying something.

Hopefully Towers isnt the Douche-nozzle that McFail was/is.

The thing about the Roberts rumors is that they kept getting more and more players added. What started as Roberts for a Ronny Cedeno/Sean Marshall ended up being Roberts for Cedeno,Rich Hill,Felix Pie,Ernie Banks,Ryne Sandberg,Steve Bartman, Sluggers Lounge and the ghost of Harry Carey.

I think this Peavy situation will work out in the Cubs favor. Jim Hendry has all the leverage and is probably waiting Towers out as we speak.

1. Peavy has a NTC and wants to go to Chicago
2. San Diego is in Obvious bargain mode (Khalil Greene salary dump)
3. Towers doesn't need the media Fecal storm of a Pissed off Peavy badmouthing the organization come ST
4. Peavy has the NTC and he wants to go to Chicago

It makes way too much sense not to happen at some point.

Can we sub Billy Williams for Ernie Banks?

If that falls through, can Rich Hill play RF?

Actually, now that you mention it. McFail wants both guys and a prospect for Brian Roberts.

And Rich Hill does have "Lefthandedness" on his side. So uncle Lou would probably give him a look see out there.

"But a Cubs source said Wednesday the versatile DeRosa is staying put and not going to be dealt." - Carrie Mustache

I hope the mustachioed vixen is right.

If Mrs. Napoleon Dynamite is as correct as she usually is, then that would mean DeRosa will be traded by about 5:00 today.

Carrie say DeRosa isn't being traded? Oh good. Now I feel better.

I sure hope Dero stays here - don't see Humptenot filling that role effectively.

Hell, Lou's going to play him at short. Didn't Fukudome used to play short?

"Sean Marshall is off the table but Josh Vitters is in and Marquis needs to be moved."

It's sounding more and more like all Hendry is willing to part with is Marquis and a few prospects for Peavy. And why not? It's not like Towers has anyone else to negotiate with.

Actually it looks like Marquis will not be apart of the 2009 Cubs period, as Levine reported this morning if the Peavy thing falls through Jimbo will sign The Unit.

In any case, as we all realize, the Cubs (at least on paper), are the best team in the NL Central.

It will not matter much if they have a 100+ win season, and still can't win a series in the Playoffs, should they make it.

The team has its flaws as of now, and getting a solid LH RF will help mitigate them.

Some writer on CBS Sportsline claims the Brewers won't let Melvin spend any of the $100 mil they offered to CC. Meaning no starting or closer to add to the roster. If that's true they won't be able to compete for the division unless the Cubs have several key injuries.

compete for the division? No CC no Sheets no closer. They are competing for last right now.

If they were to add a closer and a starter, say Randy Johnson (who had his velocity back by the end of last season and was nasty again), they could be in the race. They'll have Gallardo back at full strength next season.

Peavy has a huge contract, it doesn't offer us much flexibility down the road.

I don't understand the need for starting pitching. We are well above the league curve at every spot in the rotation.

1) Zambrano - when he is on has some of the nastiest stuff in the bigs. An absolute ace in any division.
2) Harden - only question is stability, but Lou did a great job last year babying him. Nobody can question his stuff. Could lead most staffs.
3) Dempster - sub 3 era out of a 3 man? mvp of our team last year in my opinion
4) Lilly - i'd like to see the era come down a bit, but he won 17 games or something like that. That's fantastic out of a 4.
5) I mean this is a toss up. Either way you go we have more talent than most bottom's out there. I think Marshall can go .500 untill the shark is ready, then I think people will be surprised what he can do. Marquis is adequate as a 5 also.

I honestly would not trade that rotation for any teams. CC is out of the division, so at least the best rotation in the division can't be questioned.

Our money would be much better spent adding some consistency to that offense. I think Lee will play much better this year, he had an awful year last year to be honest. Fontenot and Theriot gave us some consistency last year, but without the power. Hoffpauir is the real deal. He needs his at bats.

And giving up Vitters and other prospects seems like a big mistake to me. Cubs have a barren farm system right now, and he is a good looking kid.

Eat half of Marquis' contract, trade him for a few raw studs, sign maybe a mid range outfielder like Ibanez or Teahen and this team is an improvement on the best team in the National League.

I think we will end up getting Peavy. But I'd just rather improve where we need it rather than where we like it.

I agree that we have a great rotation. Unfortunately, I think there are flip sides to all of the strong points you listed above. Allow me to play devil's advocate.

1) Zambrano - when he is on ... is just not often enough. He's often wild and occasionally complains of pain and shows signs of diminished speed. He's due for a big time injury and just can't seem to solve his headcase woes.
2) Harden - lost about 5-7 mph toward the end of the year. As such, he became much more hittable. A smart GM wouldn't count on more than 20 starts next year from Rich.
3) Demp - great year but it was one good year and probably a career year at that. What are the chances that his '09 looks a lot more like his last start of '08 than the rest of '08? Decent, imo.
4) Lilly - has been very solid but struggled early in the year with walks and HRs. More regression seems likely.
5) Marshall - doesn't seem to have Lou's trust, for whatever reason. Marquis is very overpaid and despite being a good #5, he just can't be counted on in meaningful games. Too many times when he just flat sucked last year.

I'm not saying I agree with each of those but one could make an argument for them.

the devil's advocate game is always fun.

Zambrano really isn't off his game that often. He's a power pitcher and when he does get hit he gets hit hard, like most hard throwers. I also get the feeling he's due for an injury, although there's not much evidence to point to it. Maybe our bad luck with aces is why.

I've got no statistics, but I find it very hard to believe Harden lost anywhere near 7 mph toward the end of the year. If we could have played a pinch of defense in his postseason start we could have won it. Regardless, he gets people out with his changeup, and places his fastball. I'm a huge Harden fan I'm going to be sad to see him go after this year.

Everybody just thinks Dempster will not do well this year. I don't get it. He's hitting his prime age wise and starting to let his pitches move rather than over throw them. I'd be surprised as the next if he goes below a 3.00 era again, but he's good for 15 wins for sure. That's our 3 starter.

Lilly is very consistently above average. Doesn't get shelled much, isn't going to throw many gems. He's good for 3 ER over 6 or 7 most nights.

No arguments for Marquis here. I struggled in calling him adequate last post. Albeit he is for a 5, no doubt. But 9 mil for him is almost the waste of money that Kosuke is. Jeff Samardzija is the man here by July.

I also rescind my statement about the best rotation in the bigs as is. Looks like the yanks will sign Burnett to go along with CC. Wang and Joba running 3 4 is nasty. Pettitte maybe at 5 is ridiculous.

Bring Bradley to the Cubs and we are set.

"Peavy has a huge contract, it doesn't offer us much flexibility down the road."

Do not agree.

Not by today's standards. BAsed on his Cy Young, age,and time remaining, it is a real value.

The Cubs are now a major payroll player in the NL.

Unless I see otherwise with new ownership, we will have the flexibility.

If we sign peavy we will have about 120 mil committed through 8 players for 2010. Our entire team made under 120 mil last season. No flexibility. Back loaded contracts are for cheap teams to sign somebody then trade him before he gets too expensive. You think the Padres are looking to dump him because he's not performing? No, it's because he gets paid more than most positional allstars, but plays in 20% of the games.

This is a valid point, but you are not looking at the big picture of the sure-to-be-coming large revenue stream - the new owners will be cranking it up to new levels: starting with a Cubs subscription cable network.

I've screwed around playing Out of the Park Baseball and adding Peavy to the Cubs roster and playing a few seasons. Without any other additions in salary, the team is heavily strapped for cash in the near future with Soriano's 18 mil per, Fuku's 12 mil per being dead weight, plus Peavy, Z, Dempster (another horrible contract - they should have picked Peavy over Dempster and moved on), Lilly, DLee, ARam, etc. That's 8 guys making over 12 mil each.

I like Peavy, and adding him would be nice, but realistically, if we don't win the WS this year, or perhaps next, we're in serious trouble in a few years because of these huge contracts to older/unproductive players. Even if the new owners will keep spending, they'll still have Soriano, Fuku, and Dempster's bad contracts handcuffing them. It would be hard to bench $30 mil worth of outfielders, and I can't see being able to move them. As for Dempster, I've always disliked the guy as a pitcher. Last year was fantastic, but we saw Dempster of old, the real Dempster, in the playoffs. A guy who has pitched 11 seasons and has a career whip of 1.50 shouldn't be getting $52 million. Hendry is an idiot.

What's even scarier is that in OotP, playing 2009+2010, the Cubs made the playoffs once and went out in the first round and missed the playoffs in 2010. I know it's just a game but it's heartbreaking just the same.

"As for Dempster, I've always disliked the guy as a pitcher."

You're shitting me.

Edit - Dempster with the Cubs.

26-26 87 Saves
416 K's 460 innings
Weighted ERA+ of 131
WHIP 1.33

For reference, Peavy's career ERA+ = 121

cubs getting a carfax report on milton bradley...going beyond kicking the tires

"Rangers manager Ron Washington confirmed Tuesday that Cubs personnel had contacted him regarding Bradley, who is believed to be seeking a multiyear deal. Cubs hitting coach Gerald Perry worked with Bradley when the two were together in Oakland and is familiar with the outfielder, who led the American League in on-base percentage (.436) this season."

Yikes, the MLB trade rumor guy has this:

Offers for Lowe are in the four-year, $65MM range. Wow, what an idiotic comment I posted earlier suggesting the Cubs get him instead of Peavy. I was delusional. So never mind.

O&B - An offer is not a contract. Let's see where these go.

He's said to be looking for $18 million a year.

The MLB traderumors guy also said that Texiera has a 9 year deal worth over $200 million, let's see that one come to fruition.

fwiw...rule 5 eligibility, complete 30 team list

You know it wouldn't surprise me if we grabbed someone we thought could be a Loogy or a replacement, defensively, for Cedeno or maybe another catcher to compete with Johnson and Hill for the backup spot.

Vitters is the only rumored Peavy trade guy not on the 40 man, right?

Nice huge breakdown on the current state of the Peavy talks.

Mention of DeRo "opened up a can of worms."

So, I really think Mark DeRosa is a good ballplayer--my kind of guy: hardworking, can play all over the field, a little pop, decent contact skills, good eye at the plate, doesn't talk more than he needs to, etc--but I think trading him now makes some sense, even as a part of a deal completely separate from Peavy. He seems like maybe he just had a career year, he's only got one more year left on his contract, and we've got Fontenot ready to take over at 2b, which puts another lefthanded bat in the lineup. Trading DeRo could shed salary and bring back a really good prospect, or more likely it could bring in something the club really needs, like a lefthanded outfielder capable of hitting 25+ homeruns.

Trading DeRo also scares me, though. What happens if Fontenot really can't do much with the bat, or A-Ram gets hurt, or our new RF and Fuki both stink?

Rosenthal says Yanks bumping their offer for Burnett to 5/91, yeah, that's right, $18.2M per year.

potential 3-team deal with Putz, Jeremy Reed and Seth Green going to Mets, Mariners get Franklyn Guiterrez, Endy Chavez, Aaron Heilman and Mike Carp and Indians get Joe Smith and Luis Valbuena.

Tigers getting Edwin Jackson for OF Matt Joyce

Great first trade for the M's GM. Sells pretty high on Putz for a guy with a injury history and limited track record of success. Gets a good 4 or 5th starter in Helieman, a nice OF prospect in Guteriez and a 1b upgrade with Carp.

Eh.  Injury history or not, he traded one of the most dominant relievers of the last few years for a mediocre 1B prospect, a back of the rotation pitcher and a good defensive OFer who hits like a 4th OFer...  I dunno.

What are the Indians thinking here? They're getting bollocks for one of their best OFs. Stupid trade for them. Really stupid.

My sources are telling me that Shapiro is getting his gambling debt for the week paid off in the deal also. Talking about the Indians who was the PTNBL in the Sabathia deal? They were suppose to decide 5 days after the season if memory serves.

Gutieriez was their 4th OF last year, and is behind Grady and Ben Francisco. Francisco hit .266/15 HRs/54 RBIs/64R in 447 ABs, Gut hit .248/8/41/54 in 399 ABs.

That and they have Choo coming back from injury who hit around .300 last year in the OF

And their bullpen was just horrible last season, and Smith wasn't too bad.

according to BP

The Brewers are going to Plan B to beef up their rotation after leander CC Sabathia left to sign with the Yankees as a free agent. The Brewers are interested in a pair of Rangers right-handers, Kevin Millwood and Vicente Padilla.

Reds interested in Baldelli, Burrell or Juan Rivera....

Cubs reportedly inquire on Chone Figgins

I'm sure those talks will get far. The Angels are always willing to move their young players.

So I'm gone all day administering and grading finals, I check in at midnight and......

absolutely nothing has happened.

Winter Meetings, heh.

This happened. You should be proud; don't you write there?

The USA Today mention is pretty wild, yes.... 

Actually the Cubs a year or more back was looking at getting Chone Figgins. If i remember correctly part of the deal involved the Cubs taking on the contract of Gary Matthew's JR cuz we needed an OFer at the time.

But since he is just a faster version of Theriot, i can't seem many Cubs fans being happy about getting him.

and WTF do the Cubs want with Chone Figgins?

Our problem right now isn't getting to post season, it's winning a damn game in post season.
And Figgins has been a disaster in that regard,

18/87 26 strikeouts .207 .233 .310

a Chone Figgins for Mark DeRosa trade would make a lot of sense...

I'd rather keep DeRosa probably, but if the goal is more LH bats and a little more "athletic", not to mention a potential leadoff hitter, it's not too bad.

Angels were said to be wanting more power from the third base spot, although they should just give the job to Brandon Wood then. I also think they'd want more than just DeRosa. I think last year they said they would want Aramis Ramirez for Figgins, so yeah, they're a bit delusional.

Recent comments

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  • soler + hammel for mike trout is pretty much a sure thing. *nods*

    crunch 3 hours 31 sec ago view
  • Not an inspired outing by Rondon. Seemingly got ahead of every hitter but had no swing and miss pitch today, slider had no bite.

    Somebody give Soler some smelling salts - yeesh

    Eric S 3 hours 1 min ago view
  • that runner scores on a single...

    The E-Man 3 hours 12 min ago view
  • So where do you think Soler will be traded to this off season?

    jacos 3 hours 14 min ago view
  • And right on cue he throws to third with no chance to get runner on 2nd so the batter takes 2nd easily. How long has he been playing baseball??

    The E-Man 3 hours 14 min ago view
  • Man you cannot put Soler out there late in games for Playoffs. Yuch...

    The E-Man 3 hours 21 min ago view
  • Such is the life of a fatted calf...

    JoePepitone 3 hours 35 min ago view
  • fowler with a triple in the 4th...he's a HR away from a "natural" cycle

    crunch 4 hours 8 min ago view
  • ...and contreras takes one off the hand and he's in obvious pain. sigh.

    he's staying in the game, though he's wringing his hand out during breaks in the action. aside from that he seems to have no issue giving signs or tossing back to the pitcher.

    ...and he's batting in the cubs half of the following inning. sweet.

    crunch 4 hours 12 min ago view
  • his collapse started on august 21st this it's a slight improvement.

    but wow, what a collapse since then...only 2 out of 7 can be considered good/decent.

    crunch 4 hours 24 min ago view
  • I'm really going to enjoy watching Hammel watch the playoffs.

    Jackstraw 4 hours 43 min ago view
  • The always combustible Jason Hammel

    jacos 5 hours 3 min ago view
  • Hammel :(

    Charlie 5 hours 4 min ago view
  • That was fun.

    Charlie 8 hours 4 min ago view
  • "home field advantage through the playoffs?"

    Except for the away games.

    VirginiaPhil 8 hours 16 min ago view
  • Eh, I read it as tongue-planted-firmly-in-cheek. VEB seems to have good heads on their shoulders.

    Brick 9 hours 25 min ago view