Maybe....

These past few days I've been thinking. I've had the thought that maybe certain things are true and we need to accept them. For example:

  • Maybe Andre Dawson and Ron Santo really aren't hall of fame players. For the past few years they've done all sorts of changing of the way that the veterens committee elects members and all still come back with the same news for Ron. These are his peers that aren't seeing it. Perhaps we're simply blinded by the fact that we so badly want to see something go well for the guy. As for the hawk, maybe those days in Montreal on the turf cost him his spot.
  • Maybe trading Mark DeRosa, as unpopular as it was from a fan standpoint, was a good idea. You always hear the saying that it's better to trade a guy a year too early than a year too late. We've seen the latter in the last few years with guys like Marquis and we'll probably see it again with someone like Felix Pie. Perhaps Jim Hendry made the right call.
  • Maybe Kosuke Fukudome just needed a year to get used to the big leagues and he really won't suck in 2009. It would be a great help to us and would allow us to keep Milton Bradley as healthy as possible. Perhaps we just need to hold out hope.
  • Maybe Ronny Cedeno will finally learn to not be a retard with the mental errors. After all, we did agree to a contract with him today.
  • Maybe....just maybe...The Cubs will win a World Series in 2009.

Then again, maybe I'm retarded.

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Comments

Andre Dawson is not a HOF player. If you take his WARP-WIN Shares, subtract his RZA fielding, multiplied by (OBP)/VORP, it clearly shows that he is not a HOF player.

Please note dripping sarcasm.

I'm a believer that both Santo and Dawson are HOF worthy. To me, Santo is a no-brainer. Having seen him play, looking at his stats, and comparing him to his contemporaries and other HOF third basemen, it's obvious to me that he belongs.

Dawson is more borderline, but I still think he belongs. I know there is a knock on him because of his OBP, but that's only part of the picture. He did everything else so well. I don't mean to paint with too broad of a brush here, but it seems to me that a lot of people saying Dawson doesn't belong because of his OBP are also people who didn't see him play. I know that is an overgeneralization, but I hear a lot of people using stats exclusively to tell them who should/shouldn't be in the HOF. If you look at the stats AND factor in having actually seen the guy play, I think Dawson gets the benefit of the doubt.

Ron Santo was the major leagues' best third baseman of his time, the 1960s. I think Eddie Mathews out-statted him in '60-'61, and while Ken Boyer was 1964 MVP you can make an argument for Santo that season too. The Hall is loaded with players who were the best of their time, and those are the guys who belong. The voters need to acquire some perspective, and you'd think they would in Santo's case. It's not like we are talking about a pre-WW 2 player here.

PS I hope at least the Cubs will trade Felix Pie to a team where he can play CF, and get 400-500 at bats and see if he can make adjustments to MLB pitching, instead of 40 here...wait 3 weeks..100 at bats here...sit six weeks, another 50 at at bats...They should never have tried to make him a leadoff hitter..he's better suited for the 6 or 7 spot in the order.

I'd like to see a breakdown of Veteran votes, to see just how many of Santo's peers voted against him. Peers meaning guys who played with or against him in the 1960s, not the Mike Schmidt cabal. The Great Joe Morgan would be one, he might not be the best judge though being as he was trying to get his BA past .275 for most of the '60s.

I had read and heard somewhere that Morgan was actually part of the charge with Banks and Billy Williams FOR Santo this year.

I think Morgan did vote for Santo, although I have not seen a written statement from him definitely saying so.

While the VC vote totals are now public, the votes of the individual electors are not. Unless a voter discloses how he voted, we don't know. The only things I've seen after this election are statements from Mike Schmidt saying he voted for 3 players, and strongly intimating that one of his votes went for Kaat, and Dick Williams saying he voted for Kaat.

I've heard Joe Morgan on ESPN radio and TV in the past saying that Santo should be in and he votes for him every year.

is So Taguchi the Shingo Takatsu of 2009?

Where So goes, the champagne flows!

He might be. But outfield depth is something the Cubs could use. Too many question marks there: will Gathright hit, will Hoffpaiur field, is Fuld healthy and does he have his stroke back. Any time a starting OF is DL'd (and it's guaranteed to happen with this trio) we're going to have to trot two or three guys out there to cover. And Taguchi's a good fielder at all three positions.

After all, we did agree to a contract with [Cedeno] today.

Does that mean that Cedeno is going to start writing for TCR?

We've invited him to spring training...but make no guarantees.

Hmmm...what would a spring training for TCR writers look like?

A Buffalo Wild Wings.

I imagine it's a night at Howl at the Moon or some other piano bar where AZ Phil keeps requesting Neil Diamond songs and Cubnut asks for Rick Astley about 12 times.

I am so there.

Where So goes, the champagne flows!
------
I like it!

So and the Pink Backpack

So and the Adventures of a Middle Aged, Irrelevant Backup Outfielder?

Seriously, looking at those stats from last year, isn't it time someone revoked his visa?

Who's the signature in reference to? Have I missed a major argument in the TCR comments?

Real Neal must think that Joey Gathright has some kind of upside that few others can see.

And yea... you missed a discussion about Gathright's upside in comparison to Pie's upside.

Oh. I guess he's looking at Gathright's 2007 OBP in 261 plate appearances and his 2008 stolen base percentage. I see.

I guess he's looking at Gathright's 2007 OBP in 261 plate appearances and his 2008 stolen base percentage.

Correct, and conveniently ignoring the .365 BABIP that year. But that's okay.

"Real Neal must think that Joey Gathright has some kind of upside that few others can see."

Yes, I am the only one with access to the internet, televeision, newspapers and baseball cards. You've figured it out.

He clearly no longer qualifies for his H-1B visa.

"The regulations define a 'specialty occupation' as requiring theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge in a field."

Are You There, God? It's Me, So.

Jim wants to make sure Iowa kicks some serious ass this year!!

Oh, wait...

FWIW, and I said this elsewhere, trading Mark DeRosa actually WAS the correct thing to do, based on age and past performance, like it or not. I just figured we'd get better for him.

You've got to keep in mind the Cubs and Indians don't rely on Baseball America to do their scouting.

Doesn't what you get for him determine whether or not it was the right move?

I was thinking the same thing as you since the end of the season--DeRo has to be valuable at this point, and there will be a number of teams that can utilize him because he could play 2nd, 3rd, RF, and LF or 1B on a team that doesn't have real sluggers at those positions, or that needs to cover for an injured player.

But three pitchers not even ranked in their team's top 10 prospects? I thought he was worth more. Not that he was going to bring in any blue chip prospects, but somebody whose name bloggers know.

It may still turn out to be the right move; DeRo could flop, or one or more of these pitchers could be valuable (+ Bradley could stay healthy--that's where the money seems to have gone).

jose ceda for todd walker outrage was #1.

I don't remember too many people being outraged by the Todd Walker for Jose Ceda deal, except for those who simply loved and would miss Todd's famously stubbled mug, which was promptly replaced by Mark DeRosa's stubbled mug. But maybe I was distracted by my annoyance with only getting Cesar Izturis for Greg Maddux--neither a prospect nor a productive major leaguer. But the real question is, without DeRo how will the Cubs meet the major league stubble quota for each team? The Cubs have far too many players who either can't grow facial hair (Ryan Theriot) or who prefer not to. Butch up, you sissy SOBs!

really? ceda for walker got a lot of negative play here with a "who the hell is this guy and why isn't his rank on prospect sheets higher?"

Manny was the most famous for "No one wants Todd Walker" and "He wasn't too valuable look what we got for him" chorus line. There was alot of bitching about not getting something better back for Walker, when in realiy then and now we got some useful players.

Now DeRosa is gone and people are like, "what thats all?!?!?" Even in this thread someone complains about not getting a bluechip prospect back. Seriously a blue chip prospect for Mark DeRosa? Are you nuts. You can barely pry a blue chip prospect out of a team when they are trading Johann Santana much less a Mark DeRosa.

I think we got some excellent players back for him. I wouldnt be shocked if Jeff Stevens makes the pen out of spring training.

The other one John Gaub is a very interesting prospect. In A-ball he pitched 64 innings and struck out 100 batters. I want to see what he can do in AA and AAA.

That's the thing with prospects, it's dangerous to pre-judge them at first glance. Nobody thought Fontenot would be of much use when we got him from Baltimore. Geo Soto also didn't look so great, but he's proven otherwise. I'm willing to withhold judgment on these guys we got for DeRosa until we see what they can do.

The fact that he's only signed for 2009 hurt his value, but I agree, one would think they would have gotten at least one highly thought of prospect. Perhaps Hendry had his choice of one B or B+ guy to three C range guys.

or maybe, and I know this is a totally crazy off the wall idea, Hendry's staff knows something that we don't...

Nobody blogs to give Jim Hendry the benefit of the doubt. That defeat the purpose of the internets.

Put conceeded.

It's hard, though, to ignore the ironicalyness of Jose Ceda and The Fontenaught being principle characters in the proof that Hendry doesn't know how to trade for prospects.

let us not forget...Kevin Hart for Freddie Bynum

hahaha...rock.

Who gets the one roster spot that seems to be open for Pie, Cedeno, Hoffpair?

Rich Aurilia?

Oops, forgot about him. So if Aurilia takes Cedeno's spot from last year, and Miles takes Derosa's spot, Ward's spot goes to who?

no one?

Bench: Backup C, Gathright, Miles or Fontenot, Johnson or Fukudome, 1 of Aurilia (if they sign him), Cedeno, Pie, or Hoffpauir

of course, I'm not entirely 100% sold that if Pie is raking in spring training that Gathright isn't expendable...

How 'bout even if Pie isn't raking, Gathright is expendable? I would much rather have a bench of

Koyie Hill, Pie, Miles(Fontenot), Johnson(Fukudome), Hoffpauir or Cedeno (or both if you only carry 11 pitchers until someone gets hurt)

than

Paul Bako, Joey Gathright, Fontenot(Miles), Johnson(Fukudome), Rich Aurilia

Trader Jim better get something of value if he sells low on Pie, Cedeno, and Rich Hill in order to make room for Joey Gathright, Rich Aurilia, and a middle reliever.

Maybe because Pie can't bunt and still strikes out a ton is a reason he wont even be able to unseat Gathright for a roster spot.

Gathright was brought in because he is a hell of a bunter something this team was sorely lacking. Your in a close game and you got a runner on 2nd with no outs Gathright is entering the game, not Ronny Cedeno, not Felix Pie to get that runner over to 3rd so the next guy can get a sac fly.

What's more, the bunt is is a beauty down the first base line. 1B fields but Gathright is fast so he tries to tag him low on the leg. Gathright leaps threw the air, easily clearing the tag. Safe at first. That is why he was brought in.

I didn't get to watch too many games this year because of work, and I don't get to watch AAA games, but why are we assuming that Pie and Cedeno can't bunt? I remember Cedeno laying down some good ones in 2006 when he was the starting shortstop. I had heard that Pie was a good bunter in the minor leagues. Can't Miles bunt, too? What about Ryan Dempster if all you need is the bunt? Can Johnson bunt? Hell, can Andres Blanco bunt--he can at least play SS.

If Gathright is the designated bunter, that's a waste of a roster spot.

The only way having Gathright instead of Pie makes sense to me right now is if the Cubs get something of value for Pie in a trade or come up with a magical way to send Pie to AAA to play every day.

Bottom line is what Hendry said in the Trib today: it's time to win, not develop. Felix has had some opportunities, and for better or worse Lou wasn't going to give him any more than he got. He decided Pie was not going to cut being a starting outfielder, and he decided Gathright and Toguchi are going to contribute more than Pie and (I guess) Cedeno. We will have to wait and see if that pans out.

I think I understand the line of reasoning; I just take issue with it.

I would think Taguchi has less of a chance to make the roster than Cedeno, Pie, or Gathright. He'd really have to perform well in Spring Training, or multiple outfielders would have to get hurt, starting with Reed Johnson.

I can't figure out the odds of Cedeno or Pie making the roster, but I think Gathright is a shoo-in. I guess Cedeno and Pie have the edge because they are out of options, so you're right there. I am afraid Hendry is going to have to give those guys away if he doesn't keep them because day by day their trade value goes down.

Adam Dunn?

Bob Brenly was interviewed this morning on WSCR, and he opined that Gathright would be a real impact player for the Cubs and was a huge fan of his signing.

oh yeah, Gathright can be a game-changer...

give him an AB and you're bound to lose :)

obviously dusty is wearing out his welcome because no other manager...umm...

...wait...

*brain explodes*

Having someone who could come in and pinch run and steal a base would be a weapon we have not seen at Wrigley in quite some time. But if we are letting young guys go for higher priced vets it sure would be nice to feel good about the vets bringing improved performance. Not sure Aurilia outperforms Cedeno this year, but last year it sure seemed like Lou saw enough of Fuku, Pie, and Cedeno, and Weurtz for that matter.

Pagan. Goodwin. Not too long ago.

Lou likes his bench vets. He's got a little Dusty in him that way.

Here's the link to the podcast of the Brenly interview...

http://www.670thescore.com/pages/3596918.php

"Then again, maybe I'm retarded." You got a problem with retards? Hey, I used to work with tards and I'm offended by this statement.

The Joe picketed Tropic Thunder as well...

Only because I find neither Ben Stiller nor Jack Black humorous and detest Tom Cruise. I love Robert Downey Jr. though.

I did download it off the internet much later and found it humorous in places...especially the retard bit.

I was awesome at Hydro Thunder on Dreamcast, though.

Tropic Thunder -funniest movie of the year.

Is that official?

jacos approved product (formerly Krusty Korporation)

Ah, I see. Like I said, I found parts amusing. Laughed out loud for the retard bit, Jack Black trying to convince the rapper to untie him and Ben Stiller hurling the child off of the bridge...and my loudest laugh "take a step back and literally fuck your own face."

I'm just not a hollywood guy, generally...even when hollywood is making fun of hollywood.

I know funny. ;-)

Alpa Chino: [why he's in the movie] I had to represent. Cause they had one good role for a black man, and they gave it to Crocodile Dundee!

Kirk Lazarus: Pump your breaks, kid, that man's a national treasure.

The Hollywood theme is what makes it brilliant. If you are not into it like you said it might not work for you. Cruise had the grip punch the director.

I was cracking up.

I think it's the only movie I ever liked Tom Cruise in...

well except for this, but that's for other reasons which only Chad can relate to...

I have lost all faith in this board...

I set that one up on a tee for everyone....

I just thought it was obvious. Chad likes boys - we all know that.

Yeah, my reaction was just like The Joe's... There was no perceived set up. You had already said it... By the way, I was pretty pissed when I clicked on that link and got sweaty Tom Cruise....

youand Jace's humor notes are duly noted....

I was expecting more jokes on my behalf actually, I figured the Chad gay humor is mostly overplayed.

 

Guy walks into bar, golf and gay Chad jokes are timeless.

If you tie those three together you may have the funniest joke....evah!

i lost one of my best "guy walks into a bar" jokes the past couple years...

kerry wood and mark prior walk into a bar...out 30-60 days.

Chad walks into a gay bar...

That's not a joke.

The joke here is:

Chad walks into a bar

It wasn't gay.

See?

Also Tropic Thunder sucked on a variety of different levels.

Ben Stiller has two characters that he can play:

1. insecure nebbish who can't stand up for himself
2. over the top a-hole

How about:

Chad walks into a gay bar. The bartender says, "Welcome back, boss".

Totally agree with the Stiller assessment.

ps. I love you Chad.

thanks joe.

i think this would be the joke:

Chad walks into a bar. Bartender says, "Hey! We don't serve your kind here" Chad says, "Why not, I'm FABULOUS!!!"

BAM!

I'll take it.

No, no. That's Chad's line, if this is a gay joke involving Chad. Not that I'd really know. I think I've missed a lot of Chad jokes due to not being involved in parachat.

By all means come to parachat. But remember to shower afterwords.

Re: parachat

to quote Bruce Springsteen (and later Manfred Mann)

That's where the fun is.

That, and West Hollywood.

Oh Carlos. A smooth brown skinned young man like you could do so well there.

2 months til parachat, guys. try to control yourselves.

also,

والسبب أنا هنا ، قالوا لي ، هو أن لعبت المباراة بطريقة معينة ، أن لعبت اللعبة الطريقة التي كان يفترض ان يلعبها. لا أعرف عن ذلك ، ولكنى أعرف أن هذا : كان لي الكثير من الاحترام لأنها لعبة بأي طريقة أخرى ، وإذا كان هناك كان هناك سبب واحد وأنا هنا اليوم ، فذلك لأن كلمة واحدة ، احترام. احب ان العب البيسبول. أنا لاعب بيسبول. لقد كانت دائما لاعب البيسبول. ما زلت لاعب بيسبول. هذا الذي أنا.

R.I.P. Howlin' Howry.

Wes sent sound kids-yeah.

Tropic Thunder was hilarious.

Downey was awesome.

Chad gay jokes are never overplayed and are always welcome...preferably in tandem with a mullet joke.

Yeah, but how awesome is Anthony Edwards? Revenge of the Nerds and Top Gun within a couple years of each other? Dude has RANGE... I am talking Wizard of Oz (Ozzie Smith, not the movie based on the Frank Baum book) range.

Didn't he play the same character in both movies?

Why is it that when someone links to that volleyball scene that I HAVE to watch the whole thing? Oh yeah, I know why.

BECAUSE IT'S AWESOME!

I find not a thing ghey about that scene. Nothin' wrong with a good bit of volleyball, dude sweat, and righteous high fives.

Days of Thunder was also good.

Any movie that has a soundtrack that features two different Kenny Loggins songs is alright with me. If only they could have found a way to squeeze Danny's song in there, too.

Never go full retard...

on August 9th vs Vegas...Dodgers affiliate I believe

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090116&c...

Someone can correct if I'm wrong but...Vegas 51's:

I believe it's the Toronto Blue Jays AAA affiliate.

The Dodgers are re-affiliating with the Albuquerque Isotopes but there has been discussion to return the team name to the Dukes (which is what it was before the Marlins became the affiliate).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_51s

I said "I believe"...fact-checking is for retards (take that The Joe)

Riggs Stephenson--lifetime 336 BA (22nd all-time), 407 OBP (44th all-time), 130 OPS+
Stan Hack--lifetime 301 BA, 394 OBP (78th all-time), 2193 hits, 5-time All Star, twice led NL in SB
Bill Buckner--lifetime 289 BA, 2715 hits, 498 2B (50th all-time), batting champ. 94th toughest hitter to strike out in history
Phil Cavaretta--lifetime 293 BA, 372 OBP, 1977 hits, MVP, batting champ, 4-time All Star

am I the only one that's lost?

but Stan Hack....most underappreciated Cub of all-time?

Wasn't the original topic the HOF qualifications for Dawson and Santo? I'm pointing out that there are other Cubs in the Hall of Very Good Players, if that is where Dawson, Santo and Big Lee end up, so be it. I do think Dawson gets in eventually though.

oh, you were trying to stay on topic....what were you thinking?

I'm caught up now...

it was a Dodger affiliate until sept 08, now bluejays.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.js...

Some bad games but might be good for some people:

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/chc/ticketing/leadoff_...

Get Fuzzy today...they've moved on to the cubs (i love this comic...and Lio)

http://assets.comics.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/0...

The RSox ones...

1 - http://assets.comics.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/0...

2 - http://assets.comics.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/0...

Background: Rob is the human, he owns Bucky (named after Dent) cat and Satchel (named after Paige) dog. The dog is dumb and the cat is a total asshole (*cough* ren and stimpy *cough*). It's a good comic, though and the writer is a big RSox/baseball fan.

Maybe unicorns shit gold bricks.

ha

As much as I hated seeing Woody and DeRo go I understand why they had to make moves. It's a little like making soup, you can have too much of a good ingredient so you cut back a little and add some more spice. I'm going to cut Hendry some slack on this one, he's gotten us to the dance two years in a row. IMO he's done a great turnaround since the 2006 season.

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