Cubsters Last Stand

GAME 106 IN-GAME DISCUSSION THREAD [PARACHAT] CHICAGO CUBS (53-52) @ PHILADELPHIA PHILLIES (55-51) CITIZENS BANK PARK, 6:05 pm CDT, TV: CSN
Vicente Padilla, RHP
5-9, 5.45 ERA
54/42 K/BB, 16 HR in 79.1 IP
Carlos Zambrano, RHP
7-4, 3.43 ERA
128/61 K/BB, 12 HR in 139.0 IP
LF *Matt Lawton SS #Jimmy Rollins
CF Jerry Hairston CF *Kenny Lofton
1B Derrek Lee 2b *Chase Utley
RF *Jeromy Burnitz RF *Bobby Abreu
3B Aramis Ramirez LF Pat Burrell
2B *Todd Walker 1B *Ryan Howard
SS #Neifi Perez 3B David Bell
C Michael Barrett C Mike Lieberthal
P #Carlos Zambrano P #Vicente Padilla
Wow, that's a lot of lefties in the Phillies lineup. Luckily Big Z handles them almost as effortlessly as he does the righties. I suppose we found the answer to the "Where Will Matt Lawton Play" sweepstakes? Sorry, Murton. Let's hope that he still gets to play against lefties as Lawton doesn't hit those southpaws all so well. As anyone could have predicted, Dusty pretty much went with alternating righties and lefties down the order, so let's hope we have a few more Felipe Alou's out there. I made my point last week that we needed to do a lot better in our homestand if the playoffs were to be reached this year. So we've now moved onto having to roll over the competition rather then just beating them soundly. And since the teams we face this week are some of our direct competition, 5 out of 6 is just about mandatory. And with three-fifths of our rotation nothing more than average, that will be a tough task to accomplish, unless Lawton can inspire our offense to another nice stretch of healthy run scoring. Go Cubs!
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Comments

I really would like to see Burnitz in center, and both Lawton and Murton in the lineup, at least as long as the kid is hot. Oh well.

Thank god we got Murton out of there...

The kid was killing us with all of those lucky hits and that high OBP.

Well CBP does have a large center field and Hairston is faster than Burnitz or Lawton. so taking that into account the idiot with the excepttion of Burny 4 and aram 5 put out the best line-up he could.

I too would prefer that Lawton take Hairy's lineup spot instead of Murton, at least for a bit to see if Murton is the real deal...but it's not the end of the world....let's just hope Lawton holds his own.

Meanwhile we all have bitched and moaned about Neifi and how Dusty is crazy for playing him so much. All of the Cubs sports writers seem to disagree as they all praise how great Neifi has been since Nomar went down. It's amazing what one great month and one key hit against an arch rival will do for your media reputation.

as for record, I think 4 of 6 keeps us strongly in the hunt for another week or two...but 5 of 6 is what we need to really take a leap. We fall more than 4-5 games back of the leader and 2-3 games behind several other teams...we are dead meat.

Neifi's monthly splits in 2005:

Mo.. G...AB...AVG..OBP..SLG..OPS
Apr 21 68 .368 .403 .559 .962
May 27 108 .259 .283 .370 .654
June 27 109 .229 .248 .312 .560
July 28 103 .233 .245 .330 .575

wow, those June/July numbers are even worse than I thought.

What's even more frightening is that Neifi is 3rd on the team in ABs and 2nd on the team in games.

Gerut is playing RF and batting 5th for the Pirates if any one is interested. I have an odd feeling Burny or Hairston is going to get injured tonight. Let's hope not.

Kewl!!! (bowing humbly to Rob G.) Cubster gets top billing in this thread...

to quote Roy Hobbs (robert redford) in "The Natural":

"God, I love baseball"

Does Lawton have to earn the C on his helmet?

to quote Ron Santo reqarding Hairston's AB:

he swung at a pitch outside, Ronnie;

"not only outside, but high"

another 1st inning where no tablesetters getting on base wastes another extra base hit by DLee

I would rather see Murton play for Hairston -- in the field and as a #2 batter...Look at their averages...We need hitters who make things happen with some consistency.

Can't say this is a terrible lineup, since it's top-heavy with OBP. But what about Walker in the two hole, then flip-flopping Burny and A-Ram and putting Barret in the six spot. Maximizes power and RBI potential at the top and in the middle, and doesn't really hurt the bottom.

Either way, when you insert Nomar for Neifi, this lineup becomes pretty damn formidable from top to bottom, don't you think?

Such a long summer
The Cubs outs flow like rain
Around derrek lee

watch out for the Thursday game in this series, umpire Laz Diaz (tonight at 2nd base) is one of the worst...he will be behind the plate on Thursday.

he loves to throw people out of games with inadequate provocation.

DBT:

Do you pronounce "Cubs" as a two syllable word?

I remember Laz Diaz threw out Steve Mongo McMichael out of the game when he was singing during the 7th inning stretch. Now that's a touchy ump.

Luke, yeah, you have to include the sob halfway through that is customary this time of year.

this is what we should do...

Zambrano to lead off with Lawton in the 2nd spot

Laz Diaz isn't the only crumby ump...Dana Demuth has been studying Diaz's moves.

Why wasn't dustbuster arguing?

Santo is furious.

Jody Gerut 1st AB with Pirates

2nd inning

Popup to second (Loretta)

The Cubs need to go 40-17 in their remaining games to make the playoffs. The can win them and lose them in whatever order they want to. For simplicity, just count losses. If you get up to 17 you can turn off the tube for the rest of the season and Kerry can schedule his surgery.

The Cubs need to go 40-17 in their remaining games to make the playoffs.

They do? Since when does a certain record mean anything for baseball playoffs?

While 93 might get you into the playoffs this year, it might not. On the other hand maybe it will only take 88 wins to do it this year: That's all Houston's on pace for right now.

From here on out the Cubs need to be 5 games better than Houston, 4 better than Washington, 3 Better than Florida and Philly, and 1 Better than the Mets. That's all that really matters.

The ump that tossed Mongo was Angel Hernandez.

I posted this 2 days back too..but is it just me or is Todd Walker consistenly failing to move runners??
-C

boy - thank god Cedeno wasn't in there to clutch-up and GIDP.

it's time for neifi to start bunting the runners over in the 8 spot for zambrano

Cubby, its just you.

As I responded to your post two days ago:

Todd Walker - Bases empty: .275/.324/.442
Todd Walker - with RISP: .313/.346/.500
Todd Walker - RISH & 2 outs: .364/.417/.682

Cubby78, todd walker is simply failing consistently. Moving runners, whatever.

dbt ..can you please convince bleeding blue regarding the same. He seems to be so much attached to those numbers.

Cubby, I know you don't like stats, but those numbers are exactly what he's done in those situation. That's what stats do.

Ignore the facts all you want, they won't change.

Unless perhaps you'd like to explain how he can be failing consistantly (all season long as you said 2 days ago) and still be putting up those numbers.

his numbers since the break aren't as low as I thought. I'd have to workup his high leverage #s by hand, though. the baseball musings day by day calculator doesn't quite do it.

Wait til y'all see C. Izturis' spectacular grab on the highlight shows tonight. Wow.

Clark...you are right about Angel H. (another hot head)

Wasn't Laz Diaz in the game against the Cardinals, 2nd game of a DH where the Cards and Morris won 2-0; where Alfonseca bellybumped the ump to get suspended and Alou slobbered on one of the umps too

Sosa won the 1st game of that dh with a 15th inning HR.

I guess I need to get my bad ump list in better order

Re #25- BB

Of course, you're precisely right.

93 is my prediction of what it will take.

Where has the Cubs offense gone?

mlb shows Zambrano with 65 pitches thru 5 innings...nice

79 pitches thru 6 innings...

this really sucks having Zambrano pitch so well with no clutch hitting.

can't we try to manufacture a run? Oh, sorry I forgot who our manager is.

Lets hope Zambrano gets a solid base hit here...;-)

what's not to love about the way Zambrano pitches...

great pitches against Howard and Bell

Now lets see Lawton reap us some rewards

Irrespective of today's outcome..another offensive failure for the cubs. This kind of offense after a day off is inexplicable.
-C

Irrespective of today's outcome..another offensive failure for the phillies. This kind of offense after a day off is inexplicable.
-C

hehe...

It's time for us to score...I haven't seen D. Lee hit a homerun for a while now -- we could really use one too...;-)

Your empathy for the phillies is well noted crunch. Since when we started measuring our success relatively? Are you establishing your own benchmark?

did you register the humor, too?

im just trying to give the people who dont show up here to complain everyday something to read.

lighten up a little bit...

if you dont "get it" just blame dusty...

Bases loaded, 1 out and we have Ramirez up to bat...IF we can't score in this situaton then something is very wrong with the offense...Come on Cubs...;-)

ok..one out bases loaded..I hope we put some runs on board so that people stop blaming dusty and share your "humor" - crunch.

a great man once said "hehehe."

lucky us...

Burnitz burned but we were due for a ball to bounce our way after that weird wild pitch

Ramirez is THE RBI MAN -- he knows how come through in the clutch situations...Walker is shifting into gear...Lets go Cubs...;-)

How did "Moises" Burnitz get picked off first with the bases loaded?

ahh finally..2 Runs in..I am ready to accept humor into my thought process...crunch - u got more jokes?

-C

Wow what a clutch hit by Ram after Burny was picked off 1st!

airline food, what's up with that? must be because dusty made it... OOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo

anyone ever waiting in line at the DMV? its cuz dusty works there... OOOOOOOOOOooooooooo

i'll be here all week, tip your waitress...let's go cubs.

Big Z with 103 pitches thru 8 innings...8th inning was a thing of beauty

Bleeding..since its game time please redirect your question to Gary Matthews.

I blame the skyrocketing gas prices on Dusty...

Bad batwork in the 9th. Would have liked to see an insurance run or 2.

Hey..its proven veterean Todd Hollandsworth....Fly ball....caught...
1 pitch, 1 out...

Why would Dusty have Hollandsworth bat...? Murton gets on base MUCH more often...At least we have the bases loaded...Burnitz up to bat.

Z pitches a beauty of and 8th and don't have an exceptionally high pitch count, so why replace him? He can hit better than Holly as of late and now we can prepare for the Roller Coaster 9th!

I see that some of the fans around here (seems to be a majority) are criticizing dusty for the team's downfall. Some of them have come up with decent arguments backing their claims and frustrations. But surprisingly fans on the otherside who are showing sympathy for Dusty are not coming up with alternate reasons for loosing ball games, inconsistent offense, base running blunders, questionable 7th inning switches etc etc. Now I agree that some are going overboard in criticizing Dusty. But I would love to see some alternate arguments about why we are performing poorly or atleast way underperforming.
-C

Seriously, what happened with Burnitz? Those of us not watching on tv want to know.

Or at least give me Gary's email address!

WTF burny?? Picked off one inning and can't make contact the next? And how does your lead off hitter (Lawton) not score from first on a 2 out double? Either he forgot how many outs, or he is much slower than i had anticipated.

Don't know bleeding. I am also suffering under the stupid media restrictions imposed by MLB/?? which doesnt make iota of sense.

1 down, 2 to go! Go cubbies!!!! LMAO @ the "Moises Burnitz" comment Bleeding.

Ninth inning walk..whats new

You have a 2 run lead and your walking guys! C'mon a solo homer can't even tie the game. Way to bring the tying run to the plate! Dempster always making things interesting.

Can't agree with you more WiCub..solo homer will hurt a lot less than these walks....speaking of which another walk..Dumpster !!

Anyone wish Z were still pitching???

OMG this is making me freakin sick! Back to Back walks in the 9th. Only the cubs man, only the cubs. Why pinch hit Holly for Z and not let him finish the game? Z is better hitter as of late anyway. Another great in game decision by Rusty Dusty! I sure hope they make Woody the closer!

2 Walks for Dempster...What's going on...Maybe we should have kept Zambrano in.

Anyone wish Z were still pitching???

Gotta trust your closer here. Come on Double Play ball!

Z only through 104 pitches! But in a 0-0 game against the cards, Dusty lets him go all 9 and throw well over 104? Does anybody else wonder if Dusty is trying to force his way out with these decisions? He can't be this baseball stupid can he??

3 Walks IN A ROW -- put Zambrano back in Dusty.

OMFG get Dumpster out of the dam game! Z goes 8 and gives up notta after first couple innings. Nothing annoys me more than a pen guy coming into a game and not throwing strikes. Just like the game a week or so ago when dumpster had 2 out nobody on and walks a guy that leads to the cards tying the dam game. Listen, im no pro ball player but i know that a good hitter gets out 70% of the time. Make them hit the DAM ball!!!

Was something wrong with big Z?????

MAKE A CHANGE DUSTY...YOU OFTEN WAIT TOO LONG.

This smells like another cubs loss.

wow..another walk with bases loaded !! I think dempster will pitch better underhanded. How can you not find the strike zone so consistently at this level?? If the hitter digs a good breaking ball and gets a hit thats a whole different story, but 3 walks in the ninth inning...sorry zambrano..I feel you man.

Im about to puke, i can't believe what im seeing! This loss to me will be all Dusty's fault and a great example of why the cubs are nothing more than a .500 club with the highest payroll.

Bob Brenley wonders HOW DUSTY CAN LEAVE DEMPSTER IN with this situation.

Man oh Man. This is timeless Old-Style Cubs crap baseball in the ninth.

omg he didn't walk the guy and low & behold the guy made an out. see how easy that is, throw strikes they get themselves out. now that he got the 2nd out, he'll give up the 2 out single.

Perez batting like a cub, thank god

Scott..every creature in this universe is wondering about the same thing..not only bob brenley. I think we all started wondering about that after Dumpster issued that second walk.

36 pitches for 2 outs ... yikes. Guess Demp is ready to hand over the closer role to Wood ASAP.

Perez batting like a cub, thank god

break out the defibrillation paddles...a near death experience!

Man we needed this

ZAMBRANO

Wow...Talk about getting out of a sudden death situation...Ok...At least Dempster got the win...;-)

That will tighten up the rear end a little bit! Good news ALL of the WC teams in front of the cubs are losing. Could be a HUGE WIN!!!

OMFG! He decided to throw strikes and got people out. What a miracle, this guy finally figured it out. And i couldn't have said it better Cubby78, at this level there is no excuse for 4 consecitive walks! Cubs win, but all it does is cover up Rusty Dusty's mistakes!

Cubs Win....
(I think I hear someone whisper "In Dusty We Trusty" ..or may its time and they have a change of heart)

Wow that was almost a heart breaker for the cub fans and more importantly Big Z.

Well, Dusty set the Dumpster up to fail but he failed to fail.

Looks like this might be our year!

Go Cubs!

IF/WHEN girls had/have the same skills as the ugly guys that play baseball, this would be our fantasy team. Trades, demotions, releases, etc TBD

C - Brooke Burke
1B - Jessica Biel
2B - Rachel McAdams
3B - Scarlet Johanson
SS - Evangeline Lilly
RF - Jennifer Aniston
CF - Jessica Alba
LF - Elisha Cuthbert
P - Jennie Finch

Bench
P - Eliza Dushku
P - Angelina Jolie
P - Shannon Elizabeth
P - Rachel Bilson
P - Mishca Barton
P - Paris Hilton
P - Nikki Hilton
P - Jessica Simpson
P - Denise Richards
C - Nikki Cox
1B - Laura Prepon
3B - Charisma Carpenter
SS - Hillary Duff
2B - Mila Kunis
OF - Katie Holmes
OF - Keri Russell

GM - Lucy Liu
Manager - Mimi Rogers/JustAGirl
1B Coach - Charo
3B Coach - Heather Locklear
Bat girls - Olsen Twins
Pitching Coach - Alyssa Milano
Bench Coach - Winona Ryder
Hitting Coach - Heather Graham
Mascot - Kathy Griffin

Radio - Anna Nicole Smith, Jenny McCarthy

I guess Dumpster was trying to bring back the Mitch Williams days!

Cubs win
Cubs win
Cubs win

I just told the ambulance to send the bill to Dempster....crap.

We only won this game thanks to the chat appearance by Burke, Alba, McAdams, Biel, Aniston, Finch, Cuthbert, Lily, and the tough ass GM Liu

Last four Cub wins by the one run variety ... not including the Neifi slam game either (also a blown save by Demp). Cubs (and I!!!) need a blow-out win ASAP - they're playing tighter than a fiddle.

Dusty was just toying with us...

He did it to build up Dempsters confidence

and Dempster didn't ultimately fail cause he knew all the time the Holly would make a game saving catch in LF if called up.

It's the veterans, stoopid. (Don't tell Dusty that the game wasn't played in Veterans stadium)

G_O D_BACKS!!!!

"Well, Dusty set the Dumpster up to fail but he failed to fail."

Oh that's just fucking ridiculous...No, when a pitcher walks 4 people in the 9th, only 1 person is to blame.

Well, that was a brilliant performance. Demp is DEFINITELY a guy to be snapped up for 2 years at $10MM as soon as the Series is over.

Ron's Favorite Sequence (aside from leaving Dempster in):

Matt Lawton singles
Jerry HairstonJr. out on a sacrifice bunt
Vicente Padilla intentionally walks Derrek Lee.

That's the ticket: get Derrek Lee IBBed as many times as possible.

A win is a win is a win. In Carlos and Aramis we show promise; just about everybody else on this team can go to their room (including Todd Walker's 826 OPS... CoMe BaCk GrUdZ!!!) and think about what they did wrong tonight.

9 of 10 teams leave their closer in that whole inning....it's their game to win or lose at thaat point...especially with the bullpen we have.

The holly move doesn't make sense, but was harmless.

The sac bunt also doesn't make sense....we need to stop doing that in front of Lee...although ihe appeared like he may have been bunting for a hit.

What manager leaves a pitcher in the game after walking 3 in a row....and then 4 in a row?

So Dempster threw as many as a starter does in 4 innings....sweet! Can't wait for that much needed save tomorrow night...hell Dempster has a rubber arm..never been hurt...just throw him again.

Adam..agree with you..we cant "totally" blame Dusty for that ..but I would say 90% of it was Dumpster's fault. No manager in any game can do anything if you walk 4 guys straight. This is Major League and you are amply paid to do your job in a decent way. Sorry no excuses.

Dusty didn't throw the 16 balls, but his in game decisions again were just terrible. From not bunting with walker in the 4th with 2 on 0 out, to taking out Z after only 104 pitches. Hell he just let Z pitch 9 agains cards a week or so ago and any other game he'll let him throw 130 to get through 7. And do you think the trend of horrible fundemental baseball the past couple years with all the baserunning gafs, etc... shouldn't come down to the manager? Dusty is a players manager because he lets players do what they want with no reprocussion. What else explains the mistakes being made over and over and over???

I think tomorrow night we will see Novoa for a few innings -- let's hope he is in "the zone"...we need Williams to pitch well and go deep tomorrow too.

You guys have lost all concept of the reality of this game. So dempster is out, then you get Novoa, a fly ball pitcher in..batter gets a double, we lose.

There is 1 person to blame for that crap in the 9th inning....Dempster...he pitches absolute crap like that, then Dusty is fucked no matter what he does. In this case, you let the closer close the game...I've seen MANY other teams leave the closer in in that situation.

It worked....now shut it.

I also agree, there is a time to sac bunt and time to not sac bunt, and the time to not is in front of D Lee to allow the opposing manager to take the bat out of his hands. Just like the inning in St Lou where Dusty played rite into Larussas hands by allowing them to walk both Lee and Ram before Nefi got the granny to win the game.

I also agree, there is a time to sac bunt and time to not sac bunt, and the time to not is in front of D Lee to allow the opposing manager to take the bat out of his hands. Just like the inning in St Lou where Dusty played rite into Larussas hands by allowing them to walk both Lee and Ram before Nefi got the granny to win the game.

"Hell he just let Z pitch 9 agains cards a week or so ago and any other game he'll let him throw 130 to get through 7"

Z also tired late in his last outing giving up the lead, and we bitched about how Dusty left him in too long.

The players have got to do their job...if they don't they don't.

You bunt with Walker, then you have Neifi up next...not exactly a strong candidate for a sac fly...although that is a reasonable argument to be had. The buntt in front of lee is a good argument...Blaming dusty for Dempsters shit that he took on the field, terrible argument.

At some point, you guys have to deal with the fact that Dusty is our manager, and actually discuss the playing on the field. How about our idiotic base running in the 8th? How about our inability to ever get a clutch hit.

Sorry for the double post, i got an error after i hit post so i didn't think it worked. My apologies. ;)

Adam, I am not a Dusty supporter but agree with you that Dempster was the reason we almost lost the game. I agree that we need to look at the field as well

Mariano Rivera is the kind of closer the Cubs would dream of having...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile...

He currently is paid more than any Cubs pitcher (even more than the overpaid Kerry Wood). Yet, Mariano gets the job done.

Dempster is talented and maybe his nerves got to him tonight...At least he was able to start throwing strikes before The Cubs gave away the game...;-)

I'm tired of Dusty too, and have been ready to see him leave this team since the all-star break, but the daily bahsing of every single move he makes, win or lose...is absolutely ridiculous...people here have stopped even paying attention to the players anymore...it's like there is one man with strings who controls every aspect of the game...it doesn't work that way, and things generally balance out.

If he leaves z in, maybe we lose, he pulls Dempster, maybe we lose....we won...can't we enjoy it? or at least direct our scorn in the right direction.

"He was set up to fail" Bullshit, when you through 16 balls to 4 batters, you have set yourself up to fail.

I agree Adam, players do have to be held accountable as well. I like the fact Dusty is a players manager and draws talent to our team. However, truth be told he is a horrible in game manager. There is no disipline in the club house. Guys fuck up and Dusty is giving them the fist. Fuck the nice try BS everytime. Get in somebody's ass and wake this team of sleeping giants up. I know they had injuries, etc... and im not giving dusty 100% of the blame, but players managers don't often win championships when they are always giving a pat on the back! I can almost bet that nothing was said to Burny about gettin picked off first, other than maybe a "cmon burny u know better" followed by the fist and a "get em next time". Forget that BS! Give him and earful and sit him down for a game and maybe then players will have there heads in it 100% of the time. Im tired of seeing players make millions to play the game so fundamentally wrong! Thats all im saying, just my opinion. I don't dislike Dusty the person, but i don't care for him as a manager.

Dempster didn't start throwing strikes....the last batter swung at some balls pretty far out of the zone...Dempster was having trouble hitting the strike zone all the way to the last strike. He got lucky the last batter had horrible judgment at the plate.

We are going to gain a game today on at least 3 teams.....

It worked....now shut it.

That might pacify some. From my perspective, the correct way to look at these things is to find what happens if they're run through an infinite number of times. The Cubs got lucky and drew one of the occurences where no runs score with the bases loaded and one out against a pitcher who was already at 30 pitches for the inning. Whether things work are a fairly poor criterion for deciding whether they were the correct thing to do. For any TCR posters about to head off for a university education: stay far away from statistics class if you ever want to be able to explain how you think about baseball again and have others agree. :)

I also don't fully understand pulling Zambrano, though I wasn't watching and therefore don't know if he was tiring. I have no problem with him going out there for the ninth, assuming that Dempster was ready to come in if there was trouble. Whoever pointed out that Z's usually allowed to use 130 to get through the seventh nailed it.

Also, to echo the above posts: yes, we almost lost because our reliver nearly blew it, and because the team still can't score more than two runs.

"yes, we almost lost because our reliver nearly blew it"

welcome to 2005...that's the story of this team, only about 20 of those times its not almost, it was a loss.

novoa? wuertz? remlinger? that IS dempster's backup core...

its not like the dumpster was missing huge, he was working counts deep, he only had 1 really bad batter faced.

face it, this pen is a mess and the dumpster is the only guy you can count on...and counting on that is just scarey in itself.

Two notable quotes from today's Notes on cubs.com (actually the first made me rub my eyes and refresh my browser, but it was still there):

(1) [Lawton, an 11-year veteran who earned All-Star berths in 2000 and '04, was immediately plugged in as the leadoff hitter and left fielder for Tuesday's game at Philadelphia.

"He has a very good on-base percentage," Cubs manager Dusty Baker said.]

It's simple, but it's nice to hear this kind of thing now and then from Dusty.

(2) [Lawton, on his role with the Cubs: "I feel like I can go out and do my thing with a good supporting cast."]

Kind of an odd thing to say.

Lawton performed quite well tonight...He got on base at a crucial time and he scored a run. He also played well in the field...Lets see how he does in the next few games.

I heard the game on the radio. I thought Ron was going to have a heart attack...

All I can say is how many major league managers leave a pitcher in that throws 4 consecutive walks? Does that sound logical to you?

It sounded like the only thing he was getting over the plate was the slider. No one was hitting it either. Michael Barrett, where is your head?

And another thing: the bullpen coach has a phone. When a guy doesn't have it-you tell the manager. I remember a game back in 2001 when Baylor went to get Tom Gordon. Gordon however, sat down, stating he was hurt. This was news to Baylor and you could see fire in his eyes. Promptly after the season ended, Oscar Acosta was shown the door. When a guy doesn't have it, you get another loose just in case.

4 walks? Are you serious? I know, from now on, lets vote on this site after each game (win or lose) whether the game was well managed. We'll keep score-albeit objective, and see if the poorly managed games cost us a trip to the playoffs. Somebody has to add them, I don't have time to keep the tally...

My vote: poorly managed.

Jesus H. Christ folks, get a damn grip!

Dempster has 15 saves, and, if memory serves me, 2 blown saves.

Name a reliever IN EITHER LEAGUE with that many saves without at least ONE blown save this year... just ONE.... anyone...

A save is a save, you don't score extra points for style... he got the job done, end of conversation.

Only one reliever in history (Gagne) went through an entire season without a blown save... out of 30 teams, over a hundred years... DOES ANYONE HERE FULLY APPRECIATE HOW RARE THAT IS?

NOBODY GOES THROUGHOUT A SEASON WITHOUT BLOWING A SAVE... NOT MARIANO RIVERA, NOT JOE NATHAN, NO ONE, except Gagne!!!!

Come in off the damn ledge, willya? Dempster's the best we've got, get off his damned case.

Hell, based on the tone of some of these comments, I thought we LOST the damned GAME and Dempster blew a save.

Yeah, everyone would like to have a lights-out closer on their team... HOW MANY OF THEM ARE OUT THERE?

And dont say Mariano Rivera because he blew a couple of saves for the Yankees this year... in the first two weeks and against their most hated rivals, the Boston Red Sox.

The Cubs came back to win one, if not both, of the games Dempster blew. He's learning on the job and I'd hope that we'd cut him some slack!

He closed the game... he closed the game... he closed the game... CUBS WIN, dammit!

What... you want LaTorch, I mean, LaTroy Hawkins back handling the ninth inning closing chores?

Good grief...

Dempster has 15 saves, and, if memory serves me, 2 blown saves.

...and we won both games in which he had blown saves

so maybe a more useful stat is saves out of save chances that result in losses. In that stat Dempster is perfect.

Still a game like tonight is not good for Ronnie's heart condition. Contribution to a broadcaster coronary isn't a stat Dempster wants credit for.

Anybody read the Scoop Jackson article on ESPN Page 2. Insinuates that all of Chicago is racist for wanting Dusty Baker gone.

Ron Galt:

"The Cubs got lucky and drew one of the occurences where no runs score with the bases loaded and one out against a pitcher who was already at 30 pitches for the inning."

So... let me get this straight... when other teams score against our rag-tag bullpen and win games... when Novoa gives up game winning homers... when Wurtz fails in the 7th and 8th innings in games we end up losing... the other teams are just lucky, right...?

If yes, don't you think its about time the CUBS were on the RECEIVING END of some of that LUCK?

Good gravy, Charlie Brown!

I hate to say it but you can't pin this one on Baker. I mean, if you can't go to your closer, what are you supposed to do? Zambrano had already thrown 104 pitches or something to that effect. Four walks!! Four walks!! I couldn't believe it and I"m sure the old dustbag couldn't either.

Fine. Demp struggled. Fine. After the bases were loaded, it was a questionable call to leave him in. But last time I checked, Jesus Christ isn't in our bullpen. And all of you who want make children with Roberto Novoa have apparently not been watching his last 2 weeks of baseball. There's nobody amongst those Bad News Bears rejects in the pen I want in the game with the bags juiced over Demp. Why? Because he gets out of jams. Like having the bases loaded with 1 out and only allowing 1 run to score. There's no more dependable pitcher in that bullpen, even if Demp has to throw 40 pitches to get out of it. I'll say Dusty made the right call here. Cubs win. Somebody freaking be happy that we won and all the WC contenders lost. You want 5 out of 6 this week? We got 1 out of 1. Enough said.

"Dempster didn't start throwing strikes....the last batter swung at some balls pretty far out of the zone...Dempster was having trouble hitting the strike zone all the way to the last strike. He got lucky the last batter had horrible judgment at the plate."
Actually, he was lucky that the last batter was more scared shitless than we were and didn't want to look at a 3-2 strikeout call, so he made a defensive swing.
Dumpster has some friggin' sac to pull that off.

For what it's worth, it WAS Dempster's game to win or lose. I never give Dusty the free pass, but this wasn't his fault. You don't bring someone else into a mess like that, especially when your best is on the mound and he's proven all year long that he has the nerves of a Vegas gambler. Sure, the walks probably caused more than a few fans to puke their dinner, but he fearlessly worked the count on each guy and earned his money tonight.

Also, after Big Z's last outing where he tired-out in the 8th, it was probably best that he was pulled tonight. There's nothing wrong with that move.

at least we're getting williamson and wood soon...

as sad as it is to have wood in the pen until he can get his shoulder scoped and healed, getting 2 guys in the pen that are worth a damn should help a lot if theyre in game shape.

Justin: Please read from the link for the thread: "No Gerut-tee [Of A Good Deal]", starting with post #198. There was plenty of discussion about Pooper Scoop's article there. Most of them considered Scoop wrong for raising the race card. He's a basketball expert anyway. I've never considered his baseball knowledge worth listening/reading anyway. If you've read TCR for any time it's clear we just want winning baseball, and hopefully not stupid baseball.

on a side note...super prospect felix hernandez is scheduled to go thurs. vs detroit.

he's still a little wild, but the kid, and i do mean kid, has beyond electric stuff.

Yeah -- I'm thinking of shooting off an email just to let Scoop know what I think of his piece. It smacks of trying to draw some attention to himself by being intentionally controversial. I'm going to check out the other posts.

Does anyone actually think that Wood should be tried as closer right out of the gate?
I've seen posts declaring he'll be the closer.
At this point, even after tonight (and maybe more so), Dempster has proven that he's up to the task. I can't imagine why anyone would want Wood to supplant Dempster as closer.

Baker almost cost us this game!

1. Z had only threw 104 pitches and getting better as the game went along.
2. Why did he sub Holly in for D. Lawton might not be the best in the field but he is not Dubois. It had no bearing on the game, but it was a dumb move.
3. After the 2nd walk he might have wanted to call the pen, and go to the mound to see if Dempster had a blister like Brenly said. At least this would have given Demp some time to clear his head.
4. After Walk 3 he should have brought in Ohman to face Howard.
5. After the Howard walk. there was nothing he could have done because everyone else in the pen could have easily walked Bell or Perez.
6. Once again his players save him from a loss he would have caused.

433:

Perhaps he meant "good supporting cast" in the respect that the lineup behind him in Pittsburgh was atrocious.

Carmenfanzone:

Who would you rather have had in there? Would you rather have put in Robert Novoa with 1 out and 2 men on? There was no one up in the bullpen, also. Should Baker start warming up someone every time Dempster tosses a walk?

You take an inning like that and you build great confidence off it. Taking him out for for another pitcher and going on and STILL losing the game would be HORRIBLE for Dempsters psyche, which at this point in the season is something we need to keep in high spirits. Dempster is only going to be that much better for getting out of that on his own, and Baker made the right call because of it.

This falls into the category of being a "players manager." As we all know, Baker loves his intangibles, and a save like that gives a HUGE boost to Dempster. The only problem is doing that sort of thing is, yes, like playing Russian Roulette.

Justin:

I'm not living in Chicago. I don't know what the Chicago media says about Baker.

That being said, I seriously doubt they want him out of there for racial reasons.

This article seems rather off the wall, over the top, and out of left field. Like Hollandsworth... out... of... left... field... oh nevermind.

Lastly, Lawton looked great. I overheard Bob saying "Lawton... followed by Lee, Cubs leading 2-0." Man, did that sound great or what? I could get used to that... and so could Burnitz and Rami.

I can't wait for Nomar to come back and prove us all wrong with his stellar platework.

Please!

And by the way, I mean to say "1 out, 3 men on" as the bases were loaded... thanks.

THE GOOD: Dempster is indeed the best pitcher we have in the pen this year.

THE BAD: Dempster is indeed the best pitcher we have in the pen this year.

Lets hope Woody and Williamson can solidify the setup positions.

Even though i am not a fan of the whole closer idea (I prefer to play matchups), if you are going to have one, once you put him in, you don't take him out until he has blown the save.
It wasn't pretty, but you can't pull out your closer in the ninth inning while you are still ahead.

The only bad choice i saw was sac bunting ahead of Lee. Of course, that choice lead to 2 runs.

Was the win kinda lucky, sure. But in this game, the lose would have been unlucky. Someone has to win, may as well be the cubs.

Yeah, the win was lucky.

But baseball is a sport laiden in luck.

It's a game that inches can decide.

It's a game where a single call, or bad call, can decide.

Of course, you can argue that Baker put us in so many horrible positions that only sheer luck pulled us out of the hole. Funny how he's been doing that for 11 going on 12 years as a manager.

Its weird, I'm pretty sure I'm the first person on TCR to openly call for the firing of Dusty, but I've got to defend him on this night.

Sticking with Dempster was the right thing to do. The reason he's the closer is because he's the guy you trust to finish off the game. He's done beyond my expectations so far, and he's earned a chance to dig himeself out of his own hole (or dig his own grave).

I don't know if I would have pulled Z, I probably would have visited the mound sooner in the 9th, and I certainly would have told him to stop throwing anything other than the fastball, but once the 9th inning started this game was Dempsters to win or lose.

I've been on call at work for most of the weekend/week, any more word on the Neifi vs. Nomar playing short front? Last I heard Baker was still going to give Neifi (idiot, K king) the job until Nomar (AL MVP, All-star, batting champion) proves himself.

Does that even make sense to anyone?

I read Scoop Jackson's piece of trash earlier and, as an African-American man, I'm offended and insulted.

What a load of crap!

He's trying to be the next Ralph Wiley, but I don't remember Wiley writing anything this bad. At least he knew his history and, had Jackson done any research, he;d realize that Baker's merely one in a long line of Cubs managers who've gotten hammered for the teams poor performance.

I guess Riggleman, Lefevbre, Kimm, Elia, Frey, Zimmer, et. al were all persecuted African-American Cub managers. Baker's gotten off light, compared with the treatment those managers got in the press and on talk radio. And I'm not even going to dwell on the hatchet job Chicago media did on Terry Bevington (and, to a lesser extent, Gene Lamont) on the South Side. Last I checked, neither one of THEM were African-American.

God knows there are plenty of opportunities to play the race card in this society... but to play it in this instance diminishes and trivializes those of us out here with LEGITIMATE gripes regarding racial inequities!

Dimwits like Scoop JackASS are one of the reasons why society is so screwed up these days. His little diatribe did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to advance race relations... or Dusty's status, either.

Whatta jerk... I rarely peruse ESPN's website (damn near the entire site is available ONLY through subscription) these days... and after this article, I'll frequent it even less.

As most of you know, I can't stand Dusty, and I think he's a piss-poor manager... but my personal feelings towards Tom Trebelhorn (remember HIM?) as Cubs manager were even WORSE and FAR MORE INTENSE! And media treated HIM a lot worse than they've done with Dusty.

Now THERE was a guy who was in WAY over his head!
YIKES!

Baker sees it as...

Letting Neifi (gold-glove winner, mediocre and rarely clutch hitter) start until Nomar (defensive liability coming off a torn groin, guy coming off 4+ months of not swinging a bat, not really tearing apart AA pitching) proves himself.

"6. Once again his players save him from a loss he would have caused"

NO, His players almost cost him a win by walking people in the 9th and being idiots on the base paths. If Dusty went to Novoa, we could have lost. If Dusty stuck with Z we could have lost. We won the fucking game...a game that we should have won without a problem until the PLAYERS fucked up. Absolutely ridiculous to claim that the players saved Dusty in a game where the same player that saved him almost single handidly blew the game.

Meanwhile, Clemens shutting down the Dbacks, who just trounced us...thankfully it's 1-1 in the 8th

Mets won on a walk of walk in the 11th.

bah, Astros are winning 2-1, I missed the 2nd run.

Clemens 7IP, 4H, 1ER, 1BB, 8K, 1.45 ERA...amazing

Very good point, Adam. And well said.

i too was surprised when dusty pulled big Z. but he did it because big Z's big toe was hurting.

Zambrano pulled himself, toe issues or something like that. Not sure if this was posted yet.

You scooped me cubby789!

C'mon everyone. That was a fun WIN.

Can you imagine how frustrated, angry and suicidal die-hard Philly fans are right now.

Warms the cockles.

Sleep tight.

Nice rant 4thandinches...

To life, to life, L'Chiam
L'Chiam, L'Chiam, to life,

I guess Riggleman, Lefevbre, Kimm, Elia, Frey, Zimmer...

Don't forget the greats: Tom Treblehorn, Jim Essian, Preston Gomez, Jim Marshall and my favorite Herman Franks

rehab updates:
woody 1 1/3, 0 walks, 0 hits, 3 k's
williamson 1, 0 walks, 0 hits, 2 k's
corey 1/3, 2 walks, 0 k's
nomah 0/4, 1 k

i think both woody and williamson will be very effective, and for nomar, i think it'll take some time before he gets his stroke back, as he hasnt played in forever.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/03/sports/base...
(reg required)

"The positive drug test that has left Rafael Palmeiro's legacy in doubt involved Stanozolol, most notably linked to the Olympic sprinter Ben Johnson...."

An anabolic steroid. Raffy was lying when he said he 'unknowingly took it'. Its definitely not something you find OTC at Walgreens or GNC. Dumbass.

"Of course, you can argue that Baker put us in so many horrible positions that only sheer luck pulled us out of the hole. Funny how he's been doing that for 11 going on 12 years as a manager."

The funny thing is that Dusty Baker wasn't the reason SF won all those years... Barry Bonds is. The Giants continued winning when Dusty left and stopped winning when Bonds left. Coincidence? No... it's not. Bonds carried that team and made Baker and Sabean look good while doing it.

Also, the Cubs have bailed Baker's ass out a few times lately. The Neifi-slam game being the biggest of the bail-outs.

Ah yes, I forgot about the immortal Preston Gomez and Herman Franks... talk about horrible Cubs managers!

And Jim Essian? Who could forget HIM? Talk about totally clueless! Wow!

Most of these guys you've mentioned actually make Dusty look like a MENSA member!

Of course, the media wasn't as relentless THEN as they are NOW in the age of 24 hour news cycles and talk radio... but as I recall, ALL of them were PUBLICLY raked over the coals.

And Durocher was tarred and feathered in the press during and after the '69 Cubs collapse.

And... lo and behold... they were all caucasian! Guess that doesn't count for much with Scoop JackASS, especially since it completely obliterates his argument.

Gotta know your history... and be damned certain you're RIGHT... if you're gonna play that race card...

"The positive drug test that has left Rafael Palmeiro's legacy in doubt involved Stanozolol"

How did this come to light? The Player's contract guarantees confidentiality!!

Do they call it "Stan", for short?

Canseco: Ey, you wanna' do Stan?
Raffy: Sure, but my droopy, shriveled prick won't work. Oh, wait... nevermind.

I forgot, about the All-Hottie team...

MikeC added that hitting coach should go to Tara Reid, quipping "because she hits on anything that has a pulse" or some such...

Drunk MikeC was somewhat amusing...

Big John Stud:

I was actualling finding it quite ironic that he keeps winning. Somehow, some way, he does it. Whether or not it's by his own volition, which increasingly is not the case, it's still funny how he keeps putting up a win on the board more often than not.

What's ironic about Baker's "success?"

He hitched his wagon to Barry Bonds and got a great regular season record out of it. When San Fran got sick of having the best machine in baseball history yet no world championships they dumped him.
Baker then parlayed his nice W-L record into a job with a club that had another one of the games best home run hitters, a crop of young pitching that he could ride, and a GM who made it clear he was going to spend money.

That's not irony, that's just proof you can fool some of the people all of the time.

Speaking of Alou's baserunning (someone did back a ways)...

I briefly tuned into the Giants game tonight, and Alou pulled another base running gem. Runners on the corners (Alou on third) with one out. Batter hits a sharp grounder to first. 1B touches the bag and quickly throws to second where the runner is tagged out to end the inning. Alou didn't cross the plate before the tag out, so no run was scored.

Replays showed that when the runner was tagged out, Alou was about half a step away from home. Replays also showed that Alou's pace was somewhere between a walk and a jog all the way down the baseline. Even a hint of hustle would've scored the run.

Glad to see you're consistent, Moises!

Hendry comments on Kerry Wood...

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/cubs.asp?id...

{... It has been a while since Jim Hendryís face has lit up when the topic of Kerry Wood has come up.

The hard throwing right-hander has experienced yet another injury riddled season, enduring shoulder problems time and time again. So it was nice for the Cubs general manager to actually be able to talk positive about Kid K.

Wood provided Hendry the ammunition with a strong rehab outing Sunday in Fort Wayne while pitching for the Peoria Chiefs, tossing 1 inning of scoreless relief, allowing 1 hit while striking out a pair. He threw 22 pitches, 15 for strikes.

ìI heard nothing but great things,î Hendry beamed. ìOneri Fleita (director of player development) came in with a 95-98 mph report and said (Wood) felt great afterwards.

ìI applaud (Kerry) for not only accepting the fact that this is what he has to do for the club, (but) heís really thrown himself heart and soul into it, and I think we all know if it doesnít act up again in a severe way, heís got a chance to be real, real good in the bullpen.î

Any speculation that Wood may yet be a starting pitcher sometime later this season was quickly shot down by Hendry.

ìI think if youíre talking about the rest of the year, I think it will be the bullpen,î he said...}

My sentiments exactly, or somewhat exactly, Bleeding.

Also, this is the groundwork for the future of Kerry Wood. We're watching it now. Nice post.

Well we all know that Z went out because of a sore toe so who can blame Dusty for using his closer? It was Dempster's game to win or lose and if the last batter had not swung the bat at all he would have walked in another run.
Dempster didn't have it tonight but I'm not putting a rookie ( Novoa) in that kind of spot.
I;m hoping to get lucky, DP maybe. We got lucky. Sometimes you have to.
But take a look also at the top of the ninth. Burnitz could have walked in a run and allowed Aramis to hit, maybe scoring even more. Burnitz cost a run with his baserunning blunder. Why are we blaming Dusty when we should be blaming Burnitz? And Dempster.
As for Dusty, I think he is going to have to use the hit and run more instead of the bunt with Hairston in front of Lee. We can't survive Lee being walked all the time.

Corey is starting to tear it up in AAA the last couple of days. Levine was saying he would be called-up monday if he had a good week. I will give Dusty the benefit of the doubt because Z pulled him but he still could have made the 3rd and 4th move I suggested in post 141. We need a blowout tommrrow because it looks like Novoa is going to be the closer for the game.

It's no use listing bad Cub managers. Easier to say they haven't had a great one since Joe McCarthy. Had to break his heart to have to leave our beloved Cubbies and go over and win six or seven World Series with the Yankees.

Jody Gerut went 2/4 in his first start for the Pirates.

Kyle Farnsworth pitched a scoreless ninth for the Braves (after a stellar year with Detroit).

Joe Borowski was perfect again for Tampa Bay pitching a scoreless eighth inning and picking up his TENTH hold.

Andy Sisco pitched a scoreless eighth inning for KC.

LaTroy Hawkins pitched a scoreless ninth for the Giants.

#174: Thus proving that Dusty was ruining all these great players!

Tongue slightly in cheek here...

Well its true about Tara Reid, anyways......

Bleeding Blue, don't claiming your the first that wanted Baker fired. I had dibs on that the day he was hired! Woo!

And how did Baker almost cost us a win today? What was that again? He didnt yank Dempster? Say what? Oh come on that is our best bullpen arm. I know its sad but its true. Got to let him get the job done, because no one else can.

Got alot of non-believers about Wood in the bullpen. I am telling you he could be this teams answer at closer. An expensive answer, but an answer to make this team better as an over all team. Cuz right now this team is/was all rotation and nothing else. Poor bullpen and poor offense, good rotation (well mediocre rotation this year).

You dont need 4 stud starters to win. No team does. Any team can win 100 games with 2 stud starters and 3 average starters in the rotation. Time to spread the wealth in areas we need the help in. I think Wood can be that help, however crazy that sounds or looks.

Woo!

What's your point, Pennant?

Do you want Kyle around? Did you at any point in the off season lament Kyle leaving?

How 'bout JoBo? Did you want him when he served up 5 hr in 11 innings, or something ridiculous like that? Did it make sense to you to stick with a guy with no fastball and straight slider?

What about 300-pound-wall-punching Andy Sisco? You think he would be with the major league club right now considering what Van Buren is doing?

Wait, I know, you want LaTroy back. Williams is worthless anyway, we have plenty of starting pitching to go around. David Aardsma? Sorry, never heard of him.

You may have a point on Gerut, though. Matt Lawton's 2-5 and go-ahead run scored in the 8th was something I could have done without.

It's hard to believe a 'pen with Hawkins, Farnsworth and Borowski wouldn't be equally atrocious. In fact, the '04 vintage of the Chicago bullpen was comprised largely of those three major ingredients and I still have a bad taste in my mouth.

It's nice that players we have given up, especially LaTroy and Gerut, may be successful elsewhere. That's good. I don't know what you were implying by your last post, but to paraphrase a certain AL outfielder, "I resent the inference..."

1. I think it would hurt the Cubs to fire Dusty, despite his flaws. I figure the decisions and non-decisions of the new manager that did not work out will soon drive the folks on TCR bonkers in no time. I still think Dusty get as much production that is possible of any roster he has. I note that Ramirez, Lee, Walker, Barrett, Burnitz, and Nefi are all playing at the uppper level of what you can expect for their age and talent level (admittedly with Nefi, that is a pretty low ceiling).

2. I will never get mad at Dusty for pulling a starter before he gets to 110 pitches. I believe Dusty's biggest mistake in his three years here was his abuse of the big 3 in 2003.

3. Joe Torre or Joe McCarthy would have (as Torre is finding out this year with the Yankees), major problems when your starting rotation performs below expectations, whether because of injuries or poor performance. Prior has missed at least 10 starts due to injury. Wood will miss 30 starts. Zambrano has missed a couple of starts and was less then his best, probably due to injury early this year. Greg Maddux is now a shadow of what he once was. We are starting Willliams, who had washed out with the Giants, and a rookie, Rich Hill who had started the year at AA. The starting pitching not pitching deep into games has exposed a bullpen that is not deep and an offense that is to unbalanced and has to low of OBP to support average pitching (as the Red Sox have been able to do this year).

4. Dempster is the closer. He has been saving games at a rate you would expect from a top closer. In the end, he made the key pitches that himself out of a jam. Making him a closer was Hendry's idea, not Dusty's, and it is a good idea, but the reason Dusty was doubtful is because he knew Dempster's big problem as a starter was losing command and not throwing strikes.

5. I ultimately blame the Tribune Company for the team's current problems, at least offensively, not Hendry. They should have given him the budget to sign Vlad Guerrero after the 2003 and move Moises Alou by trade. Vlad was the most talent for the least money of any free agent the last five seasons. Beltran would have been my second choice, and I think he would have performed better at Wrigley then he has at Shea this season.

6. I am not sure Houston can sustain their surge. They are an awfully bad offensive team and basically are a 4 pitcher pitching staff (4 great pitchers yes, but the fall off after them is steep). If Clemens, Pettitte, Oswalt, and Lidge become merely human, Houston will start struggling. Now that the Braves have the NL East title in a death grip once again, neither Houston nor any of the other flawed teams in the NL East look any better than the Cubs to win the wild card.

Couple of thoughts about yesterday's game.

Lineup sucked. Ram needs to protect DLee and Neifi needs to be batting 8th. Figure it out BUSTY!!!

Dempster though shaky in the ninth, didn't give into the hitters and throw a meatball in the zone to lose the game. He's only been a reliever for a couple months and everyone noticed his velocity was much higher yesterday, so he couldve been just way to pumped up, hence losing his control. He got the save bottom line.

When the season concludes I think the trade deadline will say a lot about the quality of teams who participated or passed on trades.

Houston and St. Louis didn't see a need to upgrade....they had confidence their team was playoff bound. The Cubs upgraded knowing they have a lot of holes to fill and needed to fill at least one. Too bad we couldn't make a trade of something like Dusty Baker, a small amount of cash and some double-mint gum and 365 boxes of toothpicks to LA Dodgers for bullpen help....or scrap the bullpen help and just accept the fact that by shoveling another bad contract off to the Dodgers just drastically improved your team from a .500 club to serious playoff contenders.

This is a long thread, but posts 50-100, which recount yesterday's "9th Inning Experience" are worth a reread. Some of the best TCR writing outside of Parachat. From the "Moises" Burnitz reference to capper " I just told the ambulance to send the bill to Dempster." ...Bravo, all!

Trib is saying Wuertz most likely will be sent down friday. It needs to Remlinger for the reasons I stated in the previous thread.

I am glad Wuertz is going. He has been bad lately and needs to go back down to learn how to throw stikes.

Wuertz - 4.87 ERA & 1.58 WHIP in 2005. And just imagine there was a group of Cubs fans who wanted to give him a shot at closer...UGH.

Mitre is a waste out of the bullpen too since Rusch is still with the team.

I understand sending Cedeno back down as he will never get playing time, but I just hate this 12 pitcher thing. But besides DFA'ing Remmy, which I can' see happening, I don't know what pitcher should be sent down to make it 11.

ND said "Ram needs to protect DLee".

Yes in a perfect world but A-ram is kinda hurting right now.
I think our bullpen will have more game started then any other team. Kerry, Dempster, Mitre, Rusch, Hill and Williams all have at least one (or will have one) start and pitched in the bullpen.

So much to digest, but the only thing I want to mention is I love the critcism of not bunting with Walker when it was first and second, no one out...If Dusty has him bunt there, we have a bazillion complaints that he took the bat out of Walker's hands to set up Neifi with second and third. Either bunting or not bunting was 100 percent defensible -- I was in favor of letting Walker hit -- he picked not bunting and gets reemed for it. I'd say it's amazing, but it's actually the pathetic nature of most of the criticism on this board.

And no way in hell do you take Dempster out in that situation, given the ragtag crew behind him.

Where I will criticize Dusty is that I didn't understand Barrett batting eighth.

Manny,

They will have to have 12 pitchers when Williamson and Wood come back because they can't handle going back to back days for awhile on a regular basis. This is why Remlinger needs to go because then half your bullpen then will need a dayoff after they pitch. I agree that Wuertz needs to be sent down too and they should call-up JVB. We have one spot on the 40-man now that I think of it so nobody has to be DFA'd for the return of the big three because according to AZ phil they most likely will recall Guzman and place him on the 60-day and send him on a rehab trip to west tenn. Though I would still DFA Rem to make room for JVB.

Posts 185-187 are examples again as to why hopefully TCR finally fixes the troll/impposter problem.

ryno: Doc, I need a perscription for a strong pain killer so I can sedate myself.

doc: You in pain, having trouble sleeping?

ryno: It's for watching Cubs games in closer situations.

doc: Good God! Here's a perscription for what I take. Take 5 in the 8th inning and call me in the morning. {Hands ryno script for Darvoset}

Ryno,

You might want to double your dose for tonight with no Dempster! Nice debut for Lawton last night.

Can Ruz, John, Trans, or Rob do something about the poker ads?

These spam bots sure will make things interesting.

[Deleted - I'm getting bored of this crap...]

ND, Burnitz batting behind DLee won us the game last night. Manuel did not want to bring in a lefty to face Burnitz and he drew a walk. Yes he got picked off but his walk set up the two run double.

"including Todd Walker's 826 OPS... CoMe BaCk GrUdZ!!!"

Wow...someone that types with uP aNd DoWn LeTtErS probably can't be reasoned with anyway, but...you do realize that Walker's 826 OPS is better than's Grudz's 732 OPS, don't you?

1. Jody Gerut went 2/4 in his first start for the Pirates.
2. Kyle Farnsworth pitched a scoreless ninth for the Braves (after a stellar year with Detroit).
3. Joe Borowski was perfect again for Tampa Bay pitching a scoreless eighth inning and picking up his TENTH hold.
4. Andy Sisco pitched a scoreless eighth inning for KC.
5. LaTroy Hawkins pitched a scoreless ninth for the Giants.

1. Lawton went 2/5, what's your point?
2. Good for Kyle, the guy didn't have his shit together last year and couldn't be counted on.
3. Great for Joe, He absolutely Sucked for the Cubs giving up 5HR in 11 appearances, and getting scored upon in 6 of his 11 appearance. The guy had nothing for the Cubs and everyone from here to timbuktu, including Borowski, knew he had to go, what's your point?
4. no comments here..dumb move on the cubs part
5. Latroy pitched a scoreless inning? So fucking what. That's what a releiver is supposed to do, hell, even bad relievers will have a scoreless inning half the time. Less than a week ago, he gave up a lead 3 times in 3 games.

Cubwwinthepennant, I don't know what your point is in all of this...but you have been so completely and fundamentaly in left field with all your comments here recently, most noteably your truly stunning comments that the Dusty ruined Jobo and the Cubs were stupid to get rid of him.

The alternating caps were a polite jab at any remaining pro-Grudz sentiment. I've always been in the Walker camp.

But you'll still find reasoning with me difficult, as I'm sure many here will attest to :)

[Deleted - I'm getting bored of this crap...]

OOOOOH LaTroy Hawkins had a scoreless inning!@?!?!?!? We should have never gotten rid of him. Why did we get rid of him anyway, he did such a good job for us. (/major major major sarcasm)

In listening to all this bickering, it's occurred to me that the Cubs have more fanatics per capita than any other ball club. Sure the Skanks might have lots of fans, but the Cubs have the most "fanatics".

http://www.detnews.com/2005/tigers/0508/03/D0...

This article states that Pudge might possibly want out of Detroit(big surprise, it is Detroit afterall). Don't get me wrong, I like Michael Barrett a whole lot...but I'm not sure I like him enough not to go after pudge...not that Pudge would clear waivers up to our position probably anyways..but just a thought.

I just looked up Pudge's yearly stats and I have decided to take back my comments on going after pudge...I am going to do the world's quickest flip-flop and say that I would prefer to have Barrett and try to upgrade somewhere else through the waivers (Adam Dunn, anyone?)

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