Prior Dominance

GAME 132 IN-GAME DISCUSSION THREAD [PARACHAT] LOS ANGELES DODGERS (60-71) @ CHICAGO CUBS (62-69) WRIGLEY FIELD, 7:05 pm CDT, TV: WGN, Fox Sports West 2
Mark Prior, RHP
9-5, 3.68 ERA
147/45 K/BB, 21 HR in 132.0 IP
Brad Penny, RHP
6-8, 3.75 ERA
102/33 K/BB, 14 HR in 151.0 IP
CF Jayson Werth CF Jerry Hairston Jr.
SS *Oscar Robles SS Ronny Cedeno
2B Jeff Kent 1B Derrek Lee
LF * Ricky Ledee RF *Jeromy Burnitz
1B Jason Phillips 3B Nomar Garciaparra
3B Mike Edwards 2B *Todd Walker
C #Dionar Navarro LF Matt Murton
RF #Jose Cruz Jr. C Henry Blanco
P Brad Penny P Mark Prior
It would be nice, if over the last month, Prior could regain some of that confidence and swagger that he once possessed. He's been quite ordinary since coming off the DL, giving up at least 3 runs in seven of his last eight starts, seeing his ERA rise from 3.07 when he shutout the Pirates for eight innings on July 14th to it's current state of 3.68. Not bad, just not great and Prior needs to be great. His problem is easy enough to diagnose, his propensity to give up the big fly. His HR/9 rate is 1.43 this year, compared to 1.06 last year and a miniscule 0.63 in 2003. Keep it in the park, my friend! Looks like Dusty got the message that the kids should play, at least for a day. Let's hope it goes that way for the bulk of the season. Go Cubs!
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Comments

4.28 ERA since coming off.

Hope prior has finishes at 9-0 or something like that

Hey, Van Buren up also! Woo!

Good thing Hendry and Baker finally got on the same page. It is amazing how long Baker was purposely disobeying Hendry. They are so opposite on there philosophies and they clearly don't get along. Hendry finally had to put his foot down and baker finally listened.

FIRE DUSTY!!!

(sarcasm of course)

Holy cow...how bad is the Dodgers lineup?

Ricky Ledee and Jason Phillips hitting 4 and 5?

And as I right this Jason Phillips hits a run scoring single.

I still say it is bad.

manny, not sarcasm of course

that's what happened.....hendry had to keep taking away dusty's toys bc he was playing with the wrong ones. now he's pretty much forced to play murton, and his quotes show he's not that happy.

a normal manager would be playing cedeno now everday. not bc he'll do better than neifi right now, but bc we need info about him to help this franchise.

"i can't just take the ball out of neifi's hands" -- dusty

that statement is criminally stupid. right up there with "i can't turn my back on holly".

the cubs manager actually said these things.

a cubs fan like manny actually supports this cubs manager

draw your own conclusions.

sarcasm manny? i think not.

hendry had to keep taking dusty's LF toys away so that he HAD to play murton in september. any normal manager would be playing cedeno a majority of the games. dusty thinks that it's a noble goal to finish 81-81 for some reason. even that is very unlikely this year.

"can't take the ball out of neifi's hands" -- dusty.

why? neifi batted 400 for 3 weeks in may and dusty thinks he's the 3rd most valuable guy on the team, even though he returned to his crappy self for the last 3 months.

"can't turn my back on holly" -- dusty

why?

what have either of these players done that they "deserve" mopup time when we should be giving our prospects PT to help them improve and also helping the cubs evaluate them.

cedeno might not give you a better chance to win these games. (he might, but that's irrelevant). what matters is we know what neifi is. we don't know what cedeno and murton are, and that could make a difference in making more intelligent decisions this winter.

dusty doesn't see this. it's amazing.

manny supports this manager. more amazing.

Ok, what is Prior's injury going to be tonight since he is getting ripped early? I am saying hangnail on his right pinky toe.

If he looks like this another start ot two, might as well shut him down for teh year and bring up Hill to start the rest of the year in his spot.

Looks like Nomar is auditioning for a 2nd base position next year....

If Dusty is going ot be back next year I say have all young players and force him to change his mgmt style.... who knows maybe he'll be a great young guy manager next year??????

Curious on Hairston's contract status....I believe the Cubs control him, as an arbitration eligible player, after '05. Then, I think he is a FA in '06. Could someone confirm/correct this for me, as I remember hearing Hairston wouldn't like to be a bench/utility guy next year. If that is indeed his contract conditions, then techinically the Cubs could use him as they want, or at least have him to trade........

I believe Hairston will be arbitration eligible, but not a free agent.

I meant FA after '06 season, sorry. BTW, I hope all those that dislike Todd Walker's D so much are watching today. For the offense he provides, compared w/ other 2B, and for just 2.5 million, I think he would be a great guy to bring back next year. He is not a gold-glover by any stretch, but I think he has made something like 4 Errors this year, and I'll take that with his bat. He can hit either 2 or 6/7, and that money for those spots in the lineup is a steal.

Gotta love Blanco shooting thumbs up and high-fives to Prior after putting the Cubs on top. The more I watch him play (not run) the more I like him. I wouldn't mind seeing Barrett turned into a 3rd/1st/Catcher swingman and letting Blanco play as much as his bat will let him.

Alright here we go... The Miracle Cubs of 2005! They win 30 games in a row and go all the way! It's a can't miss.

neal:

i agree that it has been hard not to like blanco since the first half, his hitting has been real nice and his D is good

but

barrett is currently second in OPS in all of baseball among catchers, only behind Jason Varitek. he's having a second straight really good year.

another part of the cubs fantastic infield. bring back walker and bring in furcal, and next year we have the best infield in baseball.

outfield.....needs a little work

Keith,

He has 4 errors because he has no range. Yeah Walker's D almost cost us the game today. This team lacks speed and D and the best way to improve that is to replace Walker with Hairston at 2b.

NC fan,

The way Nomar throws I don't think he could play 2b.

Real Neal,

I competly agree with you on Blanco.

WTF was with that Dsub of cpat for Murton. It was a 3 run lead. Murton is a solid OF. Why does Dusty have to have a dumbass double switch or dsub every game?

Dusty also said the September call ups would have to earn PT because we're "not in the give away business." What an idiot! What did Holly, maciass, or perez do to earn PT? Plus how the hell do you earn PT when you can't even get ABs?

chifan

I have a scenario for you....Let's say everytime you ring a doorbell, somebody comes to the door. You do it the next day and the same thing happens, and then again, and again, and again. then all of the sudden you ring the doorbell and BOOM somebody comes to the door and you're screaming WTF! I guess my point is that Dusty HATES MURTON AND ALL KIDS plus HE STILL THINKS HE IS IN A PLAYOFF RACE! He's been doing dumb stuff like this all year to the rookies and it's amazing to me that it is so surprising to everyone on this board.

But hey, maybe I shouldn't be so surprised after all.

Talking of 2b's EP was 3 for 4 with a walk tonight. He also had a SB. He is batting .375 with an OBP of .583. If he continues to play like this he might earn himself a looksy after the AA playoffs.

Cubfan:

If you are gonna start Hairston at 2nd & Blanco at C for a 162 game season, you better have one hell of a outfield and rest of an infield. Currently, we have Walker and a Barrett/Blanco combo, which I think is one of our strengths. Blanco was hitting about .180 for the first 3 months.....I love his D & pitch calling, but he isn't an everyday starting C. Rotating him w/ Barrett keeps them both sharp, and the batting Blanco is providing is just a bonus.

I still think Walker's average, OBP, and gap power make up for his defense and lack of speed -- esp. if the Cubs can get Furcal to lead off & play SS for next year. I wouldn't have a problem with Hairston at 2nd, leading off next year, but that just means you need an even stronger average/OBP outfield than you would w/ Walker at 2nd, who is a superior hitter. A lot of possibilities this offseason for the Cubs, depending on if they get Furcal to lead off, or if Hairston leads off, starting in either CF or 2B. Got to establish the plan there, then go get solid big time OFs (Brian Giles, this means you).

Anyways, good to see some small ball today. Winning baseball, finally. Cedeno -- 2 for 3, 1 run, 1 sac. bunt, 1 SB. Murton -- 1 for 3, 1 run, 1 sac. bunt, 1 SB. Good job rookies, not spectacular, but solid, winning baseball. Got to take the positives when you get at this point in the season.

CUBS WIN!!!! IN DUSTY WE TRUSTY!!!

.500 Here we Come....:)

chifan3887;

I hate to bust your bubble, but Eric Patterson WON'T sniff Chicago this yr. No siree. He WILL finish the yr at AA, take a break, go to AFL in the offseason, play well---I hope---and come to ST with the opportunity leave an impression on Hendry. Notice how I didn't mention Baker? One Patterson is enough for Baker to rined, he doesn't need a second. And I DON'T want the Cubs to rush another Patterson. I don't mind waiting till Sept 07 to see this kid.

I went and saw Angel Guzman throw for Peoria tonight in Beloit. He didn't throw too bad, but lets just say comparing the Cubs defense to the Chief's defense wouldn't be a stretch. Guzman gave up 3 runs in 3 1/3, but only one run was earned because his defense committed 3 errors in those 3 1/3 innings. He struck out 3, and was getting a lot of ground balls that were getting stuck in gloves or thrown by bases.

Overall, it was a rough night for the Cubs A-ballers, Offensively they only managed 3 hits and got shut out 6-0.

A few points:
Cedeno and Murton work the count better and see more pitches than CPat ever has or will.

Why are people willing to excuse Walker's defensive deficiencies and not Nomar's? He's a much better offensive player and won't cost that much, especially if you deduct Walker's $2.5 million. If Nomar gets $6-7mm and you let Walker go you're net for Nomar is $3.5-4.5mm with a lot more power. A Cedeno/Nomar middle infield looks OK to me.
Why would anyone want to mess with the Cubs catching rotation. If you look real hard I think you'll find more pressing problems almost everywhere.
Yeah right Rich Hill. Did you see his last start?
They waited on that curveball and hit it all over the park. The minor leagues exist because they need a place for people who can't hit the curve to play. In the bigs they can hit it and you'd better bring another dish to the picnic. Rich has some work to do.
Dusty is not only dumb he is insultingly dumb. He must cringe everytime a Murton or Cedeno gets a hit,moves a runner up, drops a bunt, or bust their ass down the line. It's an insult to hear the "we owe Neifi" crap. He filled in admirably and earned his money, but it's time to see what the kid can do.
Dusty has said that in effect he wants to pick his spos for the kids so they don't lose confidence. Yet he runs CPat out there and lets him flail away while 38,000 people boo him Supwitdat?

CJ,

Personally, I don't think EP will be up here. However they will need a 2b, Walker will not be back because if they wanted him for 06 why would they want to trade him in August when all you get in return is crap, and a leadoff hitter which EP is the best lead-off guy in our farm system. I was saying is it might be worth it to give him a look. As much as I hate Baker he did not ruin C-pat. Managers don't ruin players they do. What ruined cpat was not knowing the strike zone.

Congrats to the Cubs....sometimes they seem to play well when I have a meeting or I'm not able to follow them closely...Glad to see Cedeno and Murton start - I would like to see them play almost every game through the end of the season...;-)

the sad part is, you know that if EP were to get here while dusty is still here (probably won't happen, nor should it), dusty in the back of his mind would always be comparing him to his brother.

like a bad school teacher who says "why can't you be smart like your brother"/"you're so much smarter than your brother"
they're different people and their relationship is irrelevant, yet you know that we would have our share of dusty quotes comparing them and feeding the media stupidity instead of ignoring it.

I like this quote from the cubs.com account of the game:

"For me, the most important thing is to help the team win ballgames and play good fundamental baseball," said Murton, who received a loud ovation from the fans in left field when he took the field.

But I thought the fans wanted to see Holly? That's what Dusty said.

Walker will not be back because if they wanted him for 06 why would they want to trade him in August

Wait...do you know something I don't know?

Has Walker been traded? There is a reason that Walker has not been traded yet - because he is an incredible deal, and Hendry is probably telling teams that he will only trade Walker for talent. Sure...Hendry is probably pursuing options, as any good GM would do. But that does not mean that they want to trade Walker.

Oh, no, Murton missed an inning in the field! Whatever will we do? His confidence is probably completely shot now!

#11 of 29: By Keith (August 30, 2005 05:51 PM)
Curious on Hairston's contract status....I believe the Cubs control him, as an arbitration eligible player, after '05. Then, I think he is a FA in '06. Could someone confirm/correct this for me, as I remember hearing Hairston wouldn't like to be a bench/utility guy next year. If that is indeed his contract conditions, then techinically the Cubs could use him as they want, or at least have him to trade........

----

FREE-AGENT AFTER 2005:
Jeromy Burnitz (mutual option for 2006)
Ryan Dempster
Chad Fox
Nomar Garciaparra
Ben Grieve
Greg Maddux (vesting player option for 2006)
Neifi Perez
Glendon Rusch (player option for 2006)
Todd Walker (vesting player option or club option for 2006)
Scott Williamson (club option)

ELIGIBLE FOR ARBITRATION AFTER 2005:
Jerry Hairston, Jr
Jose Macias
Will Ohman
Corey Patterson
Mark Prior (signed for 2006, but can opt for arbitration)
Jerome Williams (could qualify as "Super Two" - TBD)
Carlos Zambrano

FREE-AGENT AFTER 2006:
Henry Blanco
Jeromy Burnitz (also see FA 2005)
Jerry Hairston, Jr
Derrek Lee
Jose Macias
Greg Maddux (also see FA 2005)
Aramis Ramirez (player option for 2007)
Todd Walker (also see FA 2005)
Scott Williamson (also see FA 2005)
Kerry Wood (club option for 2007)

FREE-AGENT AFTER 2007:
Michael Barrett
Will Ohman
Corey Patterson
Carlos Zambrano

"You don't know how to project young players because you don't know when they're going to get it together for an extended period of time," Baker said. "One of the problems with youth is consistency. You don't know sometimes what you're going to get."

One of the main problems with the players the Cubs used instead this year was consistency. You knew exactly what you were going to get. Eventually that memo will work its way around...

Espn radio and Bruce Levine are stating that the Cubs and White Sox are discussing a trade for Todd Walker.

Am I the only one who thinks that trade makes no sense...for the White Sox? (While not knowing what is being offered in return.) Walker gets only a handful of ABs the rest of the way with Iguchi there, and sure, he'd be a good bat off the bench in the playoffs, maybe start at DH a time or two, but really...why? Sounds bogus.

I think what the White Sox are interested in Walker as a strong bat off the bench, a serviceable fill in at 1B and a reliable 2B. Plus he bats lefty and Iguchi bats righty. But what I just heard on espn radio is that BOTH Cleveland and the White Sox are trying for him. Maybe the White Sox are trying to prevent the Indians from getting him or just drive up the price.

12 hours til we dont have to hear walker stuff anymore.

*throws confetti*

i guess that means 12 hours til we start hearing 6 months of 100 adam dunn posts a day.

*loads a gun*

Crunch, why wait???

SS Dunn
2B Dunn
1B Lee
3B Ramirez
LF M Ramirez
RF Dunn
CF Dunn
C Dunn
P Burnett

250 Adam Dunn at-bats:

pitch 1: strike called
pitch 2: ball
pitch 3: strike called
pitch 4: strike 3 swinging.

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