Operation Spoiler, Phase 2

GAME 160 IN-GAME DISCUSSION THREAD [PARACHAT] CHICAGO CUBS (78-81) @ HOUSTON ASTROS (87-72) @ THE JUICE BOX 7:05 pm CDT, TV: WCIU, Fox Sports Southwest
Andy Pettitte, LHP
17-9 2.42 ERA
165/41 K/BB, 17 HR in 215.1 IP
Carlos Zambrano, RHP
14-6 3.33 ERA
194/83 K/BB, 20 HR in 216.1 IP
2B Ryan Theriot 2B Craig Biggio
SS #Neifi Perez CF Wily Taveras
1B Derrek Lee 3B Morgan Ensberg
3B Nomar Garciaparra LF #Lance Berkman
LF Matt Murton 1B Mike Lamb
RF *Jeromy Burnitz LF Jason Lane
C Michael Barrett SS Adam Everett
CF *Corey Patterson C Brad Ausmus
P #Carlos Zambrano P *Andy Pettitte
I really had no idea that Andy Pettitte was having THAT good of a year. Z's quest for .300 will have to come from the right side. A hit in one or two at-bats will put him above .300, if he gets three or four at-bats and manages only a single hit, he'll stay below .300. 2 hits off Pettitte and he's a lock. Also, with 6 more K's, Z will top 200 K's for the first time in his career, plus help out my fantasy team. Macias's earth-shattering walk and solid throw last night weren't enough to get him in the lineup tonight. What's a guy have to do? Joking aside, good to see Theriot has recovered from his bout of food poisoning. I wonder if the Astros clinch before Sunday if Geovany Soto will get a start sometime this weekend? I don't believe he's gotten into a game yet since being called up. The Cubs can take the season series tonight as well, so far they're 8-5 against the 'Stros. They'll have to do it against their top 3, Pettitte tonight, Clemens tomorrow, and Oswalt on Sunday (assuming they haven't clinched by then). Puts the 'Stros in an awful spot if they end up tied with the Phils for the Wild Card as Brandon Backe will have to start a playoff death match. Of course having those guys pitching the next 3 games, where 2 wins clinch the playoffs is a good recipe for avoiding said death match. And be sure to come by Monday as we'll being posted our year end round-table discussion starting with the TCR writers. For the rest of the week, I'll try and keep the other playoff race summaries up-to-date after the jump. NL East The Atlanta Braves clinched the division on Sept. 27th NL Central Cardinals clinched the division somewhere around April 20th, I believe. NL West The San Diego Padres clinched the division on Sept. 28th NL Wild Card Astros up 2 games over Phillies Magic number: 2 Games Left: Houston (3): 3 versus Cubbies Phillies (3): 3 @ Washington AL East Yankees are up 1 game over the Red Sox and they play each other the final 3 games of the season Magic number: 3 Games Left: Boston (3) 3 versus Yankees New York (3) 3 @ Boston AL Central White Sox clinched the division on Sept. 29th AL West The Angels clinched the division on Sept. 27th AL Wild Card Tribe and Red Sox are tied. Magic number: 4 (for either team) Games Left: Cleveland (3): 3 versus Chicago Boston (3): 3 versus Yankees

Comments

Derrek Lee just set the record for most RBI's by a first basemen for a Cub..Congrats!!

Z has already passed the 200 K mark for the season and currently stands at exactly a .300 average (1 for 2 today) and we're in the top of the 6th. He's pitching quite well so I'm thinking he'll get one more at-bat.

what the hell is going on? he just walked ensberg and berkman. if we go to the pen this things' over...

he threw 9 straight balls and larry the fairy doesn't make a visit. whats he waiting for the three run homer?

three straight walks!

Baker gave Z the milestone, pinch-hit for him on his 3rd at-bat.

Z hit exactly .300 for the season with some pop. What a player!!!

I believe Soto got into a game last week, if I remember correctly. I want to say Cards or Reds, but I'm probably wrong. He just pinch hit though, so he still has an easy job.

I'm happy for Lee setting the Cub record for RBIs by a 1B but yikes, it's pretty amazing that in 12 or 13 decades some Cub !B didn't get more than 106. Like SS after Banks, just a real unproductive position for generations. And yes, I liked Mark Grace and Buckner to a lesser extent too but 106 RBIs? Wow.

One of those things you hear and can't quite believe until you go through the personnel in your head and it makes total sense. Total depressing sense.

runner on 3rd, less than 2 outs, corey patterson has to be the worst in baseball...todd walker now hitting. our version of kirk gibson!

i'm worried patterson is going to get picked off or thrown out trying to steal. no cub has played this bad...

cub ist basemen since banks(from memory)
'72 pepitone
'73 pepitone/thornton
'74 thornton
'75 thornton
'76 biitner
'77 buckner
'78 buckner
'79 buckner
'80 buckner
'81 buckner
'82 buckner
'83 buckner
'84 buckner/durham
'85 durham
'86 durham
'87 durham
'88 grace
'89 grace
'90 grace
'91 grace
'92 grace
'93 grace
'94 grace
'95 grace
'96 grace
'97 grace
'98 grace
'99 grace
'00 grace
'01 stairs/coomer/mcgriff
'02 mcgriff
'03 karros/choi/simon
'04 lee
'05 lee

Cubs win! Cubs win! Cubs win!

Who says the Cubs won't be playing meaningful games in October?

What a game...'Stros lead down to one. Phils will owe all the Cubbies steak dinners if they make the playoffs.

Who knew Walker was even available? I didn't see the game, did he limp up to the plate?

Clemens vs. Williams tomorrow

Rob G.

Walker didn't limp to the plate but he did limp to first after hitting the ball.

Fanzone,

Didn't the great Pete LaCock figure in the mid-70s somewhere? Maybe post Thornton? Also, what was Billy Williams' last year with the Cubs? '74? He also played some first.

I remember looking at Thornton's career a while back. He'd of been quite a hero here at TCR. Great OBP several seasons.

Way to go Cubs! Lets keep HOU home for October! Man is CLE in a choke job. Cant take a series from TB and are in xtra frames with the Charlotte Knights tonight. I dont get why Guillen would put in his bench guys. Wouldnt it be better for them to play BOS/NYY in the DS than the Angels?

CUBS 1B POST-BANKS
71 - Pepitone/Hickman
72 - Pepitone/Hickman
73 - Hickman/Bourque
74 - B. Williams/Thornton
75 - Thornton/LaCock
76 - LaCock/Thornton/Monday
77 - Buckner
78 - Buckner
79 - Buckner
80 - Buckner
81 - Buckner
82 - Buckner (Durham played CF)
83 - Buckner (Durham played CF)
84 - Buckner/Durham
85 - Durham
86 - Durham
87 - Durham
88 - Grace
89 - Grace
91 - Grace
92 - Grace
93 - Grace
94 - Grace
95 - Grace
96 - Grace
97 - Grace
98 - Grace
99 - Grace
00 - Grace
01 - Stairs/McGriff
02 - McGriff
03 - Choi/Karros/Simon
04 - D. Lee
05 - D. Lee

AZ Phil,

Pat Bourque! Just putrid. One of the Breeden brothers must have logged some time at 1st too. Hal. Danny was the catcher. And no doubt Carmen Fanzone himself had to fill in a game or two over there. You had to keep his trumpet in the lineup. If you listed everyone that played even an inning over there, you'd never want to eat again.

Go Go Demp...If not Wagner, please resign him.

The more I think on it, the more I want Dempster back. This is something the Cubs can take credit for--seeing the potential he had as a closer and making it happen. If only they'd done it from day 1, right?

God I hate LaTroy even now.

Dempster has always been Hendry's choice for closer, not Dusty's. That's why he wasn't used earlier. Dusty didn't trusty.

You can read a bit about it here if you are skeptical.

#15: I was thinking the exact same thing about Ozzieball. I'd be staying up at night worried about getting stuck with the Angels in the first round. Because unless they get three Phenomenal starts from their rotation against the Halos, they would definitely lose that series. They can't outhit them, they can't outlast them in the bullpen, they play like garbage in the state of California and they, like most pitching staffs, have absolutely no answer for Vlad the Impaler. If they get them in the first round, Contreras wins Game 1 at the Cell, then they get swept out. How do you avoid getting them in the first round? Beat the life out of the Indians.

Of course, Dempster has always been Hendry's choice as a closer. Some of us don't need a google search to know that.

But to hear Bluewater Pennant tell it, you'd think he'd been traded.

After all, he's the only established talent the Cubs have had in the pen all season, and Pennant can't stop reminding us that "all the talent in the bullpen is playing for other teams."

I predict that Dusty will use Zambrano as a pinch hitter in these last two games. With the exception of Walker, he doesn't have a better choice.

I listened to Stoney's comments on the Score and his take was we 2 1/2 times the payroll of Milwaukee and still had a horrible team. That, in my opinion, points the finger at Mr. Hendry, and is a major reason why Baker will not get fired. The pen looked good for about two weeks when Wood was setting up Dempster.

Last but not least, what would you give the Marlins to get their malcontent Miguel Cabrerra? Would you trade Aramis and Patterson for Cabrerra and Lowell? I'd say they're going to make some big trades this year, we might be a good trading partner for them.

"The pen looked good for about two weeks when Wood was setting up Dempster."

And then Wood started giving up home runs.

CWTP:
"Dempster has always been Hendry's choice for closer, not Dusty's. That's why he wasn't used earlier. Dusty didn't trusty."

Dempster was both Hendry's and Bakers SECOND choice as closer going into this year. And BOTH said so at a Q&A at teh Cubs Convention this past year. Remeber JoBo was pitching good in ST and was going to be teh closer and with Wood and Prior big question marks all ST, they decide to have Dempster as insurance for a #5 starter, which is turned out they needed. They only had 1 LH relief guy int eh pen and Rusch had shown teh year before that he could handle going back and forth from the pen or start (turned out to be a fluke).

But then JoBo got hurt in ST and everything got mixed up again.

Hendry and Baker did actually have this one right, but injuries to JoBo, Wood and Prior messed it all up.

Actually, Dempster was Busty's FORTH choice as a closer. Don't forget about Hawkins and Fox, the latter who's arm fell off! Best regards, Cle

"That, in my opinion, points the finger at Mr. Hendry,... Last but not least, what would you give the Marlins to get their malcontent Miguel Cabrerra? Would you trade Aramis and Patterson for Cabrerra and Lowell? I'd say they're going to make some big trades this year, we might be a good trading partner for them."

Carmen,

On the 1st point it reflects more upon Hendry's bosses than it does Hendry. He could not spend $$$ he was not given. He had no flexiabilty as the roster he had was at 90 some odd million already. He will have $$$ to spend this off-season by my calculations at least 43.5 MIL and as much as 45.5 to spend. I want a 10-15 mil OF (Dunn, Giles, Matsui, Soriano), Furcal (8-9 MIL), an 8th inning guy (2Mil), and either a Burnett/Dempster or Millwood/Ryan combo (15 MIL) that would add up to 35-41 Mil and the rest would go the bench. On point 2 NO WAY IN HELL would FLA trade Cabrerra he is so damn good and so cheap compared to what he can do. Plus any trade would have to be Hershal Walker like. Were talking something like Prior, Murton, Pie, Cedeno, Gallagher for him.

Chifan:
"He had no flexiabilty as the roster he had was at 90 some odd million already. "

And who had already spent the $90 million you are talking about....HENDRY!!

It wasn't like he was taking aver for some other GM who made those deals. The deals that held him back from getting better players was his own doing.

No excuses this year. He has like $30-$40 million availible depending on which options he picks up.

Dempster was just given a 3-year extension. No word on the cash.

Good job, Hendry. Now keep it up...

Carmen Said:

'I listened to Stoney's comments on the Score and his take was we 2 1/2 times the payroll of Milwaukee and still had a horrible team.'

The Cubs don't have a horrible team. Pittsburgh and Kansas City have horrible teams. The Cubs have a mediocre team. Despite all the calls for Hendry's head, the Cubs are not the worst $ to wins team, and they'll probably never be the best, because they have a payroll floor of about $70 million.

It's nice of Steve Stone to take pot shots, but did he ever say what he would have done were he in Hendry's place last off season? There were four major factors that lead to the Cubs poor season- Wood, Garciaparra, Patterson and Ramirez. If any two of those things don't happen, the Cubs are probably claiming the WC spot for themselves this weekend. All this hindsight is 20/20 stuff is ridiculous.

"Hendry and Baker did actually have this one right, but injuries to JoBo, Wood and Prior messed it all up."

Geez... Baker did NOT have this right. His first choice was LaTroy even after he proved in 2004 that he couldn't close. He said multiple times during ST that Hawkins and Borowski would be battling for the closer job. As has been pointed out, Dempster was Dustbag's 4th choice for closer.
Don't try to spin it any other way or give Dusty credit for this.
Hendry had the insight to want to try Dempster as closer out of the gate and if Dusty had any balls, he would've given him first shot after Sweaty Joe went down in ST... instead he sent LaTroy to melt down on the mound numerous times.

with Wood and Prior big question marks all ST, they decide to have Dempster as insurance for a #5 starter, which is turned out they needed.

For the millionth time, can we get beyond this myth that Dempster needed to be the 5th starter?

The only reason Rusch wasn't used as a starter was because Dusty thought he needed THREE lefties in his pen. (And he apparently forgot how good Rusch was as a starter in 2004.)

Wood and Prior were both in the rotation at the start of the year. Wood pitched the home opener, and Prior was used the first time the Cubs needed a 5th starter. No one had to fill-in for either of them.

Dempster was in the rotation for 1 reason and 1 reason only: Dusty wanted him there.

I like the Dempster extension. Now let's go out and make this team significantly better in middle relief and the outfield.

Nice move by Hendry locking up Demp for 3 years.

1-1 so far geting team ready for 2006.

Just need to see how much we have to pay him to see how good of a move it is.

3yr 15.5m

personally...im far from happy with this. hope it works for mr. free pass. his only saving grace so far is he's not been giving up the home run.

That is a little more than I had hoped for. I was hoping for 3 years/$12-$13.5 million...

So for the money it was a good deal, not great, but keeping him around is very good. That means no Ryan or Wagner this offseason.

The Cubs will never be the best team because they have a "payroll floor" of about $70 million? What is a payroll floor? If you mean that is all we will spend, you are about $30 million off. I believe our payroll this year was about $100 million.

Payroll floor = minimum payroll. Payroll ceiling would = maximum payroll.

Recent comments

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  • sale's skills and insane value makes it almost too hard to have a market for the guy...he's got 3/38m owed to him over 3 seasons (2 team options). he could easily pull in 30m/yr if he was on the market as a FA.

    he's throwing a bit differently this season, especially with more sliders and less changeups like earlier in his career, but all his stuff still looks great even if the HRs are a little elevated and the Ks are down.

    crunch 37 min 26 sec ago view
  • Torres, Happ, McKinney, Jimenez, and Candelario for Sale. Deal or no deal?

    "The White Sox are reportedly asking for “five top prospects” for Chris Sale, FanRag Sports’ Jon Heyman reports."

    John Beasley 50 min 44 sec ago view
  • Unless he develops 30+ HR power and keeps his walk rate close to his K rate at the MLB level, he's not going to turn into Prince Fielder. And even if he does turn into Prince Fielder, he's gonna have a short prime. His very limited athleticism is likely to also detract some value from his ability to reach base--I don't buy making an out as being preferable to base clogging, but you'd certainly prefer just about any base runner other than Vogelbach, David Ortiz, etc.

    Charlie 1 hour 21 min ago view
  • seeing as arod has played a total of 27.1 innings of D at 1st/3rd and somehow managed a -0.5 dWAR with his 1 error at 1st and an overall positive total zone rating...he might end up even more in the shitter via the characteristics/flaws/whatever of how some sites determine various WAR values. dWAR doesn't directly lead to a WAR value, but the 2 main entities pushing the most popular variations of WAR sometimes lead to some interesting discrepancies in value.

    crunch 1 hour 36 min ago view
  • I have a lot of faith in Baez that he's going to turn into a more consistent, solid player. It looks like it took him about a half season or so of futility at the plate to figure out he was not talented enough to get away with the crazy approach he had. I think his running game will eventually have a more measured aggression.

    Charlie 5 hours 31 min ago view
  • I hope the D and bullpen show up. Cubs haven't had much luck against Davies, and he's been going well lately. A little uncomfortable with the Cards only 6.5 back--feels like they're right on our tails compared to the 11 game lead I've grown accustomed to.

    Charlie 5 hours 35 min ago view
  • Cardinals, stop that. Right now.

    billybucks 6 hours 28 min ago view
  • In a year or two, a lot of fans are going to point at trading him as a mistake. He'll probably be slashing something like 280/400/480 for Seattle at the time. Of course, by WAR, he'll still be worth less than 3, since we're talking zero defensive value.

    John Beasley 7 hours 32 min ago view
  • vogelbomb debut for tacoma (AAA SEA)... 3-3, 1bb, 1 HR, 1 double...DH'd.

    while he mostly played 1st considerably more than DH for AAA CHC, DJ Peterson is probably going to see most of the time at 1st for AAA SEA.

    crunch 15 hours 58 min ago view
  • Carl Jr.! Very nice!

    Baez with another "WTF?" play trying a delayed steal with a runner on 3rd and one out.. Remarkable talent, needs to make better decisions.

    billybucks 16 hours 55 min ago view
  • m.montgomery up in the pen with a man on 2nd, 2 out, and rondon 20 pitches into the inning.

    ...and rondon ends it 22 pitches in with a popout to RF.

    crunch 17 hours 5 min ago view
  • I gotta say with the crappy defense the Brewers have displayed outside of Fowler I'm pretty disappointed the offense hasn't shown more and Rizzo seems to be very swing happy lately. That said my god am I happy Madden has finally given Carl Edwards a chance after multiple times up with nothing. I don't think he could handle a starting role with his body frame but his stuff plays so well in a relief role and he seems to be able to handle high stress situations very well.

    johann 18 hours 9 min ago view
  • 2nd at bat. Fowler is good for the Cubs run differential.

    Cubster 19 hours 45 min ago view
  • welcome back fowler.

    crunch 20 hours 11 min ago view
  • More slow news...

    http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/07/22/cubs-albert...

    Did Davey Martinez have to bring the shotgun?

    http://www.madcoversite.com/mad104printid.jpg

    Cubster 20 hours 33 min ago view
  • glad to see almora going to AAA to get work.

    .265/.291/.422 through 86PA...2hr, 7 doubles.

    i don't expect too much of an improvement when he's taking over CF next year, but the team doesn't really need him right now as much as they need him to get regular work (imo).

    crunch 22 hours 30 min ago view