AFL Report

Some of you may know reader and roster guru AZ Phil from the comments and roundtable discussions and well he doesn't get that name for nothing. He'll be checking in from Arizona while he catches some of the Mesa Solar Sox games over the next few weeks. He's kindly offered to provide us with his scoop from the ballpark on how the lil' Cubs are doing. Thanks to Phil and hope you enjoy Box Score | Log Although the Solar Sox lost again today(5-3 to the Peoria Javelinas), I got to see†another fine offensive performance by Matt Murton and Brandon Sing. (Murton hit 5th and played LF, Sing hit 6th & was the DH). Murton was 2-3 with a walk, including two doubles, one sliced into the†right-field corner, and the other smoked to left-center.†Murton scored both times he doubled. The one time he came up with men on base (bases loaded, one out),†he rolled into a 6-4-3 DP. It was nice to see Murton play a single to the outfield aggresively and make an immediate throw home without thinking about where to throw it,†something you all may remember he failed to do a few weeks ago playing†behind Carlos Zambrano.††† Sing is a right-handed†clone of Hee Seop Choi. Very, very patient.†He will drive Dusty Baker crazy, man. He had a ten pitch walk last week, and today he was 2-3 with a walk & a strikeout plus two singles.†It appears as though somewhere along in his career he figured out he couldn't hit breaking balls, but he†DOES recognize them (he just can't hit 'em), so he†doesn't swing at them. He forces pitchers to throw strikes. He takes a LOT of pitches. I'm just†not sure how good a hitter he is. He has power to be sure, but I'm talking about pure hitting.†We'll have to take a look at him at AAA to see if he has a future as maybe a right-handed version of Ross Gload. David Aardsma had a nice outing (1.1 IP, 1 BB, 2K, including Prince Fielder). Aardsma's fastball sat†at 91-92 in both innings, and even though he had no command of his second pitch (which I guess is supposed to be a slider), he did very well. † John Koronka pitched two masterful innings (remember, the AFL IS "advanced AA"), and mixed all of his pitches well and threw strikes.†His fastball had a little bit more zip on it than I remember seeing in the past. I†think of him†as a poor man's version of Glendon Rusch. When looking at AFL results, remember it is a supreme HITTER'S LEAGUE. Sun-baked, rock hard infields, no humidity, temp in the 80's or 90's, wind blowing out, and minor leaguers playing†defense. So don't put too much stock in the offense and pitching numbers. They are skewed toward the hitters. Next game: October 11th, 3:05 PM CST vs. Peoria Javelinas
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Comments

What kind of arm does Matt Murton have? Would he make it in RF?

Can Matt Murton Play RF?

Does he have the arm for it?

Hey the posting site said that the first one did not go through.

Oh well

If LA wants Baker then Baker for Milton Bradley?

If Boston wants A. Ramerez ARAM for Hanley Ramerez?

Personally I like the first one.

I watched Sing play this spring at Fitch Park. Your comments about him driving Dusty crazy are right on. The day I saw Sing the Cub coaching staff was all over Sing for taking strikes that were breaking pitches. I like your comparison to Ross Gload.

I don't see Murton in RF folks. Although Keith Moreland once played RF for this franchise and the team actually won something.

The consequences of failure.

Ed Wade, Phillie GM was fired. Although this was no surprise, if there are any Phillie followers here, what impact will this have on that team?

The Orioles, Jim Beattie also gone. The price of bringing in Sosa? Actually that was a team with little pitching, it wasn't the offense that was the fatal flaw.

are they playing sing purely at 1st/DH? he got some experimental RF time based on his arm this past season in AA...should be interesting.

Wouldn't Sing project most likely as a right handed power hitter off the bench? Given his fielding limitations as well as age (old for league right) it doesn't seem like there could be much else, and if he's a rookie on next years bench we should shoot him, and see how long it takes Dusty to notice he can pinch hit.

Even if he wasn't a rookie - Dusty doesn't care for patient pinch hitters.

I don't think Matt Murton has the arm for RF. His throw "under pressure" from Lf to home today wasn't all that strong (but his hustle sure was!). He also got a late break on a line drive he needed to come in for, although he did recover and (again with hustle) made a nice shoestring catch. Gold Glove he ain't at this point.

Brandon Sing SHOULD be playing in the outfield in the AFL because if he ever makes it to the big leagues (with the Cubs, anyway), he will need to play a corner OF spot in addition to some 1B. Unfortunately, the way the AFL works is, teams are given a "shopping list" of positions for which they need to provide players for their respective composite team, and Sing was the first-baseman the Cubs chose tm supply to the Solar Sox. Just like John Koronka was added to the Mesa roster rather late because the Cubs still needed to provide a lefty pitcher to the Solar Sox.

AZ Phil,

Do you think Murton could can play CF in Wrigley because if he could this would enable us to get Reggie Sanders or keep Burny as the "stopgap" for Pie. An OF with Dunn/Giles, Murton, Sanders/Burny would be excellent.

giles has actually tipped via his agent he's most interested in playing in 1 of 2 places...san diego and st. louis. dunno how to feel about that, honestly...im very interested in how hendry plans to handle the RF situation the more info that trickles in.

warning...playoff interlude

that a boy Angels.
Red Sox and Yankees out in the first round...gotta love that. I am by no means a White Sox fan, but I do have an allegiance to Chicago...so, quietly....shhh....I'm rooting for the White Sox. I just don't find it worth any energy to dislike them...if the Cubs can't do it, the Sox might as well take it...and I don't live in Chicago so I won't have to hear about it if they win.

Watching the Angels... is that what fundamentals look like? Solid defense and baserunning, too! I think they went 1st to 3rd more times in this series than the Cubs did all year.

Rob,

What are the Angels going to do for a 4th starter if Colon and Washburn can not go. Do they go with Escobar and hope he goes 5 so Donnely/Sheilds/Krod can take over the last 4. I imagine Gregg is not streatched out enough to start. Can they call up somebody from the Minors who is not on the 40. They could bring up Weaver to replace Escobar in the pen. He currently is in the AFL and threw an excellent 2 Innings. Man it looks like the SUX have a free pass. UN FING BELIVABLE!!

"and I don't live in Chicago so I won't have to hear about it if they win."

If you did trust me you would be the biggest ANA/HOU/STL fan.

Larry Rothschild back with the Cubs! Wow, I'm amazed by that. Apparently he turned down a three year deal. I can't help but wonder if he thinks this team needs a defensive upgrade. I'd love to hear his candid thoughts on Barrett...

Watching the Yanks I had the thought that Arod probably wants out (just a hunch). Wouldn't he love to be the Cubs shortstop? The Ernie Banks comparisons would be endless...

I'm thinking Jim Hendry is going to have several opportunities/choices to upgrade this club. Big names like Manny Ramirez, Gary Sheffield, Hideki Matsui could be available. Truthfully, I just can't see re-signing Burnitz with so many better-albeit more expensive options available.

Seriously, in most organizations, if a guy delivers a .900+ OPS, he gets promoted. Pie and Sing would get opportunities on most major league clubs.

I bet the Twins would love to get Ronnie Cedeno from the Cubs. We could probably get Tori Hunter and Radke for Cedeno, Jerome Williams and Aardsma. Would you do it? I bet right now the Cubs rank Cedeno over just about every position propsect they have. The trade inquiries for him are probably higher than any other Cub. For what its worth, I could see the Twins wanting Jerry Hairston to play 2b. I don't see Hairston coming back next year at all.

Finally, I could see the Cubs making a deal with Texas for Baby Sarge. I would trade Hairston to Texas for Sarge jr.

Amen to that Chifan....

It is mostly the Cubs fans that live outside Chicago that will root for the White Sox for the "fellow Chicagoian" thing. Wish they could go to the Cell next year in a Cubs hat for the Cubs/Sox series and see why I am rooting against the White Sox.

The Angels will be fine and I still think they'll destroy the Wsux. I am bias though. I just think they have better pitching, better defense, better baserunning, better manager and a better offense. That being said, and it pains me to say this, but you do get this feeling that things are breaking the WSux way this year.

as for a 4th starter, Washburn had a throat infection and fever, I can't imagine he won't be ready to go. Colon might be an issue though, hopefully that back will loosen up and he can pitch Game 4. Scioscia isn't afraid to go on 3 days rest either, so that's another option.

I suspect it will be

Byrd
Washburn
Lackey
Colon

with Santana getting Colon's start if he can't go. They can add a player if necessary between rounds if there's an injury. Weaver isn't on the 40-man, so he's out. Kevin Gregg got some starts and did poorly, I suspect the spot would go to Joe Saunders, possibly Chris Bootcheck.

GO ANGELS!!!

Manny and others,

I find most of the supposed Cub fans who are now rooting for the Sox did not grow up here (Chicago) or do not live here now. Things have really gotten uglier since interleague play and we actually have to witness the clowns three times a year in our own park.

I went to the first playoff game at the Cell and I must have heard seven or eight anti-Cub comments. And It's not like I had Cub stuff on. These people are more obsessed with the Cubs not doing well than their own team winning. When I was at Cub playoff games in 2003, the last thing on my mind is what Sox fans were feeling. Of course, that's probably one of the things that pisses them off most. We just don't care about them while we are in their every waking thought.

Then Daley gets into the act saying the Tribune is to blame for it being a Cub town. Don't get me wrong, I hate the Tribune Company, but the fault for the Sox being the second team in the second city lies with the Sox themselves. First they move from WGN to UHF before most people could even get a decent picture. Then, when better UHF reception and cable were entering the picture, Reinhorn decides to go with Cablevision and actually charge people to see what they had always gotten for free. Then they threatened to move to Florida and shopped for someone who would say their great old park was unsafe (it took seven tries) so they would have an excuse to tear it down. Then, instead of building the beautiful park designed for them by the team that built Camden Yards, Reinsdorf told them to go back to the drawing board and build a new place on the cheap with 20,000 horrible seats.

When the Sox played in the old place I used to go to more games there each season than every Sox fan I know - and I love the Cubs! The hell with those bitter jerks. The shots in southside bars of them cheering while the Cubs blew it in 2003 were disgusting. i wouldn't be that classless. But I might buy the joint a round when the Sox lose. GO ANGELS!

Is Guzman starting today? I think he should be...

I have to agree with the comments about Cubs fans that aren't in Chicago being able to root for the White Sox. Those of you who didn't grow up or don't live in Chicago and are Cubs fans have no idea of how much shit I'll have to put up with from any of my Sox fan friends (or just Sox fans in general, actually) if they win anything. That is the only reason why I cannot root for the Sox, I simply don't have the patience to deal with all the shit I'd have to put up with.

hahahahaha

I'll be rooting for the Angels all the way. Seeing two Twins/Sox games at the cell in 2004, and watching Sox fans give more shit to Cub fans than they did to Twins fans, convinced me that the southside simply doesn't deserve a championship. I mean, would you ever see people at a Cubs/Cards game taunting Sox fans?

Speaking of the Twins, Hunter/Radke for Cedeno, Williams, and Aardsma? Why on earth would the Twins trade their number 2 starter and their gold glove CF for a all-glove, no bat infielder and 2 pitching prospects - both of which they already have a ton of. They might trade off Hunter for salary reasons, and I could see a Walker for Hunter move (although the Twins have been hesitant to go after their former players), but there's no way the Twins move Radke.

Despite saying you don't care, you guys are all still talking about the Sox.

If you didn't care - why would you talk about them so much?

I go to about 20 Sox games per year, including the 3 Sox Cubs games at USCF. That's a great place to see a game. Awesome sight lines, virtually no bad seats in the park, a really kid friendly environment with the Fundamentals, great food, etc. I don't wear a Cubs hat into their park - it just is asking for something. My friends who are Sox fans who come with me to Wrigley don't wear Sox stuff. It's nonsense.

I hope the Sox win it all. It would be best for this city. I know in the eyes of some that makes me a bad Cubs fan - but screw off. I enjoy the game of baseball first and foremost. USCF is a great place to see the game. And the team they put on the field this year was a fun team to watch with the exception of about 3 weeks.

Matt Murton - not a RF - at least not a good one.

The rest of the postseason for Cubs fans is all about the lesser of three evils - we're all Angels fans here.

Here's a question - IF the Sox won the WS, could it be a blessing in disguise? Yes, it would suck being the last of the "Winless 3" (WSox, RSox, Cubs) and for those of us who live in the city the shit-talking would never end. But could that be the wake up call that the Tribune Company has needed all these years? When was the last time that their territory was threatened? Maybe if the city starting shifting a little towards the Sox, the Trib would finally go the extra mile/$15-20 mil in payroll to put together a championship team and maintain their popularity. A distant possibility I know, but something to think about.

BTW - there was a good article in the Sun Times last week about Sox fans' inferiority complex

http://www.suntimes.com/output/roeper/cst-nws...

#9 of 23: By chifan3887 (October 10, 2005 08:10 PM)
AZ Phil,

Do you think Murton could can play CF in Wrigley because if he could this would enable us to get Reggie Sanders or keep Burny as the "stopgap" for Pie. An OF with Dunn/Giles, Murton, Sanders/Burny would be excellent.

CHIFAN3887: I believe anybody with even just average speed can play CF, as long as he has a "defender's mentality"; that is, the same quality you see in a football linebacker, a hockey defenseman, or a soccer goalie. That's why guys like Jeromy Burnitz and Shawn Green (though not optimum centerfielders) CAN play CF if it becomes necessary.

Murton does not have the arm to play RF, or the pure athleticism or (at the very least) the "defender's mentality" required of a centerfielder. He tries, though, and I think he certainly has the make-up and will to improve to the extent that he should develop into a decent and competent left-fielder in the very near future. He's almost there right now, but he still has room for improvement, especially in the way he gets his initial break off the bat and how he pursues fly balls. But at least he is hustling his throws in from the outfield and hitting the cut-off man (that should make Carlos Zambrano happy!), and that is half the battle.

I don't think Matt Murton was sent to the AFL to work on his hitting. I suspect the main reason (possibly the ONLY reason) the Cubs wanted Murton to play in the AFL (which is basically "advanced AA") is to hone his defense such that Dusty can be comfortable with Murton as the Cubs everyday LF next season.

To chime in on the White Sox talk...I can't imagine rooting for the White Sox, geez...I might as well root for the Cardinals or Astros...ugh. I lived in Chicago when I was young, and saw my first MLB games at Wrigley, but I couldn't imagine ever rooting for the White Sox. Its like asking a Mets fan why they aren't a Yankees fan. It was absolutely painful for me to see the White Sox make the playoffs, while my Cubbies wallowed in misery under .500. Horrible to see the 4 teams that I hate the most, Cardinals, Astros, Yankees, and White Sox all make the playoffs...and even worse, to see 3 of those teams make it to their respective championship series.

I'm an Angels fan for the rest of the year...I couldn't bear to see any of those three win the World Series.

The pain should be in that the Cubs didn't make it, despite having the talent to do so. I don't understand why you care who did make the playoffs. I love the game - and can enjoy watching any two teams play. I'm a Chicago Guy - and would love to see any Chicago team win it all. (Rather the Cubs, but I can cheer for this Sox team given how they play).

I look at this Sox team and wish our team was more like this one. Defense up the middle, Bullpen, strong fundamentals, speed, etc...

X-
We are talking about them becuase they are in the ALCS. And of course we care. We care so much that we are rooting for them to LOSE.

But Manny, I always here Cubs fans say "We don't care about the Sox" and "Why are they more worried about us than...." etc.

That's just not true. You are being honest and admitting that you DO care. If more people admitted that - they'd have to dump the old Mantra of "Sox fans worry about the Cubs more than their own team".

You can't have it both ways Manny. Either you hate them or you don't care about them.

Me personally - I'm ROOTING for them. But that's a different story.

"It is mostly the Cubs fans that live outside Chicago that will root for the White Sox for the "fellow Chicagoian" thing. Wish they could go to the Cell next year in a Cubs hat for the Cubs/Sox series and see why I am rooting against the White Sox."

I'm outside of Chicago and I absolutely hate the White Sox. I predicted the Yenkees and Astros in the WS, plus I sort of have partial loyalty in that the Yankees drafted a buddy of mine this summer.

"I'm outside of Chicago and I absolutely hate the White Sox."

Now we are getting to some more honesty...

I want my fellow Cubs fans to stop saying they don't care about the Sox, and that only the Sox worry about the Cubs, if the truth is that they have this passionate hate for the Sox.

I grew up in Chicago, and like I said "What would a Sox fan being doing if Cubs were in playoffs?"

And if you think the Sox winning the World Series will turn the Tribune into Scrooge on Christmas morning you are high. The Trib cares of one thing when it comes to the Cubs----Bottomline.

The thing that iritates Sox fans so much is that they have been the red headed step child in this city for about 35 years. In the late 60's they played home games in Milwaukee because the couldn' t draw in Chicago. And the media feeds on this by asking Sox fans/supporters about Cub fans this week. I never heard one question in October 2003 about the Sox fans.
Who knows? Who cares?
My theory is that there are three types of fans in Chicago and in order by most in numbers-
1. Cub fans
2. Anti-Cub fans
3. Sox Fans

Go Angels!!!

"I want my fellow Cubs fans to stop saying they don't care about the Sox, and that only the Sox worry about the Cubs, if the truth is that they have this passionate hate for the Sox. "

Not only that, but if it would have came down to a Cards/Sox series, I would seriouly be in a predicament on who to root for. Seriously.

Just when I'm beginning to think that I might consider rooting for the Sox in the AL playoffs considering that they might face the hated Yankees, I make the mistake of listening to talk radio....and a significant portion of teh alls are from Sox fans talking crap about how they don't want Cubs fans to root for them, etc. So I couldn't do it and can't do it now that the Yanks are knocked out.

However, I've maintained since the beginning of the playoffs that if the SOx do make the World Series I will will root for them because I dislike all of the NL playoff teams even more (I still can't forgive the Padres for 1984). The issue is particularly acute now that only the Cards and Astros remain - both of whom I loate more than words can express. I will undoubtedly root for the Sox against those bastions of evil.

On another level, the if the SOx win their series with some high drama and win the WS in the same fashion, they very well could make some marketing inroads into the Tribune Co.'s near-monopoly in the city. IF, and only if, that happens, it could be a good thing for Cub fans.

*The pain should be in that the Cubs didn't make it, despite having the talent to do so.*

Will people stop spreading this myth? The Cubs didn't and don't have the "talent" to be in the playoffs. Talent is not a word I would use in the same sentence as Neifi Perez, Jose Macias, Todd Hollandsworth, Jerry Hairston, LaChoy Hawkins or any of the other losers given prominent and recurring roles on the 2005 Chicago Cubs. That includes Dusty Baker or any of the other supposed "braintrusts".

The Yankees have talent. Execreble human beings they may be, but talented. The Cardinals have talent. The Angels have talent. None of those teams ran bums out there time and again like the 2005 Cubs and expected anything different to happen each and every time.

X-
I hate them and 90% of Cubs fans that live in Chicago do and most fans overall.

But it is clear as day the White Sox fans have an inferiority complex, and maybe rightfully so.

Like many Sox fans are still talking about the Cubs even though they are in the ALCS. In 2003, I don't remember hardly any Cubs fans bringing up the Sox or bringing signs to the field bashing them or chanting about them.

You might not see all this X, but you are in the minority on that.

X, Sox fans care far more about the Cubs than Cub fans care about the Sox. That, however, doesn't mean that Cub fans like the Sox or have any desire to root for them. Like I said, walk into the Cell when the Sox are playing Cleveland or Minnesota and where the colors of their division rival and I guarentee at least once you'll hear "at least you're not a Cubs fan." I also bet, that few if any Cards or Astros fans have ever been told at Wrigley, "at least you're not a Sox fan."

And since when is the Cell a great place to watch a game? The stadium might be a half a step above the 60's era multi-purpose concrete donuts, but not much. Of the 15 stadiums I've been to, only the Metrodome is clearly a worse place to see a game. Busch and the old Qualcomm are about equal. But not only is the cell a mediocre place to watch a game, but for what you get the ticket prices are outragous. I can go to Wrigley and sit in the upper deck, which is a very good place to watch a game, cheaper than I can sit in any seat at the Cell, including in the god-awful upper deck they slapped on top of their two levels of precious luxury box seats.

'X' - I have no quarrel with the White Sox as a team. They've done a lot of things right this year, and - unlike past years - they won the big series when it counted. I like the way they play ball; and I would trade Dusty for Ozzie in a heartbeat.

The Cell is an OK place to see a game. If you like fireworks, big-screen TV, mascots, the wave, rock'n'roll at ear-shattering volumes, rah-rah on the scoreboard, and endless huckstering between innings, it's *the* place to be. The sight lines in the upper deck are OK, though you're hundreds of feet further from the game than you are in Wrigley (or were in Comiskey Park). The brats are good - I like that you can get them with sauerkraut.

But then there are Sox fans. I was at the game on September 20 against the Indians - the one that the Sox on Joe Crede's walk-off homer in the tenth - and the place was easily a third empty. The Sox fans were ... somewhere, I suppose, but not in the park cheering their team on. And it was half-price-ticket night! Or there was an earlier game I saw against Detroit, where the Sox "fans" mercilessly booed and heckled Magglio Ordonez - for the crime, I guess, of turning down a long term contract before he was injured. One delightful fellow I saw was wearing an Ordonez jersey, but with the name "Magglio" replaced by "Fagglio". You see the "fag" theme a lot in Sox fans' witticisms. In short: the typical Sox fan has no class. No class at all.

Of course, we all know exceptions - guys who root for the Sox loyally, who are knowledgeable fans, and who aren't jerks. I hold my tongue when I'm with them, because I respect them as individuals. But for the Sox franchise - for Jerry Reinsdorf, who leveled a city neighborhood to line his pockets; to Da Maya and his trucking cronies; to the people of Bridgeport; to the no-class Sox fans in general, I say: GO ANGELS!

J-Damm
"The Cubs didn't and don't have the "talent" to be in the playoffs. "

I would propose to you that the team put on the field on opening day should have been competitive. It was no more flawed than Houston, Atlanta, San Diego, etc. Was it flawless? No - but no team was flawless this year. Not even the 250mm Yanks were flawless. Going into this year, I guessed 88 wins. I thought we had a chance.

Brownline
"The sight lines in the upper deck are OK, though you're hundreds of feet further from the game than you are in Wrigley "

Distance is not nearly as important as sight lines. And don't get me started about the poles all over Wrigley.

"But then there are Sox fans."

Why exactly do you care so much?

"Sox "fans" mercilessly booed and heckled Magglio Ordonez - for the crime, I guess, of turning down a long term contract before he was injured. "

Get your facts straight...Magglio turned down a 4 year 15mm per deal after he was injured. He said that he wanted to stay in Chicago and play for the Sox and that it wasn't about money. He then, took more money to go to DETROIT. He deserved to be booed. I have no problem booing the opposition - in particular when it was a former player from your team. Look at what we do. Cubs fans boo our own. (I know - so do Sox fans). I don't have a problem booing the opposition - not one slight problem with it. What kind of response would Sammy get if he played a game at Wrigley this year?

"Jerry Reinsdorf, who leveled a city neighborhood to line his pockets"

You ought have your facts straighter...you don't know what you are talking about. The City and the ISFA claimed eminnent domain to level about 2 blocks worth of houses to keep the team in Bridgeport. The other option was the S. Loop area. Reinsdorf chose between two options that the State of Illinois offered him. If you want to complain about owners making gross profits and abusing their fanbase, I think you are pointing your anger at the wrong Chicago baseball team. The Tribune's profits from the team and WGN Sports (which wouldn't exist without the team) make Reinsdorf look poor. Despite that, the teams have a payroll difference of only 30mm or so. That's it? We sell 1mm more tickets. Our tickets are all more expensive. And the Trib does what? Criticising Jerry Reinsdorf as part of the problem is absurd if you support the Cubs.

"to the people of Bridgeport"

Again - if you think the working class neighborhood of Bridgeport is a problem, and love the fratboys and yuppies in Wrigleyville, then I guess that's your choice. The "people of Bridgeport" are not a problem at all. I sold my townhouse on Barry just West of the Sportmart because of what happened to Wrigleyville over the past 15 years. It is an intolerable place to live and no longer a "neighborhood". It has bars and stuff to do, but the neighborhood is a bad place to actually try and "live" in. And for as much as Bridgeport has a reputation of being a tough neighborhood, how many people have heard of the "Bridgeport Rapist"? Not me - but I can tell you I know about the Lincoln Park rapist. How many people have heard of vendors getting killed in their apartments a block away from Comiskey? None - but we all heard about the one at Wrigley. How about shootings at 35th and Shields? I haven't heard of any - but we all heard about the one at Clark and Addison.

I'm betting you don't go down to Bridgeport much. I'm betting you don't know the neighborhood very well. I'm betting you don't know much about the history of the Sox and their relationship with this city, the neighborhood, or their fans. Cuz if you did, you wouldn't have posted most of that non-sense you did.

and again - another great Cubs fan who seems to want to talk about how little he cares about the White Sox, while spending all his time talking...about the White Sox.

Someone change the channel and talk about the Cubs.

X, You brought up what a great place the Cell is, you brought up why you were rooting for the Sox, and you've been responding to people who you say don't have their facts right about the Sox.

Seems kind of silly that now you're complaining that there's not enough Cubs talk here.

Blue - in response to a question about it...not on my own. And my point is that I am not the one saying that Cubs fans don't care about the Sox and that Sox fans are more anti-cub than pro Sox.

As far as I am concerned, I have no problem with Sox fans, or even Sox talk. I do have a problem with the hypocrisy of people saying the don't care about the Sox, that Sox fans only care about the Cubs, but spend so much time bithcing about the Sox.

that's all...

TO: Jobu (love the name)

"Here's a question - IF the Sox won the WS, could it be a blessing in disguise? - But could that be the wake up call that the Tribune Company has needed all these years?"

The only thing the bean counters at TRIB care about is the bottom line $$$ profit.
Since the WSox are now aired on WGN and the TRIB owns part of Comcast Sportnet (around 30% stake), the Sox winning only means higher ratings which equals more $$$, which the TRIB loves.

So, No the WSox winning the WS (or just getting there) would not be a 'blessing in disquise". It only means Sox fans get to rub it in Cubs fan's faces. Which is the main reason I will never root for the WSox.

X-
Ever hear about the dad who was beaten to death with a table leg on the way back to his car after a Sox game in fron of his kids(circa 2000)?

No place is perfect.

"X-
Ever hear about the dad who was beaten to death with a table leg on the way back to his car after a Sox game in fron of his kids(circa 2000)?

No place is perfect."

I know it well. Tom Cooper assulted the Trumblay family after walking from 110th street all the way to 35th. He was looking for the gang member he had a beef with. Some guy got in the middle of a gang turf war. That sucks and his loss was tragic. Fortunately, Cooper is doing 37 years in prison.

What's your point? That there is some violence over in Bridgeport also? No kidding? All I am saying is that Bridgeport isn't significantly more dangerous than any other neighborhood in this city - in particular during the time when there are baseball games and the cops are out in full force.

But again...it seems we have stumbled into Soxtalk.com.

X:
"Despite saying you don't care, you guys are all still talking about the Sox.

If you didn't care - why would you talk about them so much?"

Very simple. Sox fans keep crying on message boards, at the games and on talk radio about them not getting enough respect compared to teh CUBS and keep making fun of the CUBS when their team is in the ALCS. We are mainly responding to their inferiority complexes. It amazes me that they are in the ALCS but in sports radio they are calling in a talking about the Cubs coaching staff coming back and making signs at the cell making fun of the Cubs.

I am talking about them because i am responding, let me say that again, RESPONDING, to their self pity.

X - I did not mention Wrigleyville, Cubs fans, Tribune Company, or the Cubs. Spare us your tu quoque arguments.

I have no problem with booing any player; but the abuse of Ordonez went well beyond booing.

It is nonsense to believe that ISFA simply put together two plans and let Reinhorn choose the one they preferred. The Sox owners were deeply involved in the project throughout - from choice of site, to architect, to financing. The Sox owners had already persuaded Tampa, Florida, to build them a stadium; they used that deal to pry some significant subsidies from the state of Illinois: according to one economist, by the time the White Sox lease expires in 2011, the state of Illinois will have spent $20.20 in subsidies for *each ticket* sold at the Cell: http://www.mcfol.org/hottopics/artsculture/so...
I have no problem with a business making money; but I do have a problem with some of tax money I pay every time I rent a car or a hotel room or a theater ticket in the city winding up in Reinsdorf's pocket.

I find it interesting that in 1989, shortly after the Sox deal was finalized, a group headed by ISFA chairman Peter Bynoe bought the Denver Nuggets - a sale that required the approval of all NBA owners, including Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf. Bynoe sold his interest in the Nuggets in 1992 for an undisclosed amount; my guess is that he didn't lose money on the deal. It may be that the Sox deal and Bynoe's purchase of the Nuggets are entirely unrelated events. But this is Chicago: draw your own conclusions.

Brown:
"tu quoque"

Well - I don't speak Latin. So I'm done with this nonsense. How about we talk about the Cubs a little bit?

Manny:
"Very simple. Sox fans keep crying on message boards, at the games and on talk radio "

SO FREAKING WHAT? We bitch about Sox fans. We bitch about Cards fans. Why do we spend so much time worrying about what other fans think? Then why do we blame other fans and say they are worried about us?

How bout them Cubs?

Brown:
"tu quoque"

Well - I don't speak Latin. So I'm done with this nonsense. How about we talk about the Cubs a little bit?

Manny:
"Very simple. Sox fans keep crying on message boards, at the games and on talk radio "

SO FREAKING WHAT? We bitch about Sox fans. We bitch about Cards fans. Why do we spend so much time worrying about what other fans think? Then why do we blame other fans and say they are worried about us?

How bout them Cubs?

Im just saying pretty much the only reason we are talking about White Sox fans right now is because they are in the ALCS talking about the Cubs. You should go over to their message boards and tell them to stay focused on their team like we did in 2003.

Obviously you are not understanding what a few posters here have tried to explain to you, so you are right we should just end this conversation.

GO ANGELS!!!!

just for fun...

matt murton's cumulative '05 numbers at aa, aaa, majors and afl:

498AB 171H 52BB 28 doubles, 6 triples, 16 homers 20 sb/6 cs
.343/.405/.520

don't really now how this shakes out for next year but it sure looks nice.

"You should go over to their message boards "

That's exactly my point...I don't. Why should I care? Why do you care? Who gives a damn?

And they do come over to our boards and bring signs to the stadium in the ALCS poking fun at the Cubs and do Cubs Suck chants...that is my point. You just DON'T GET IT!!!

I and other fans have the right to repond against them and root against them, sorry if you don't agree, but by you continuing to complain about us, you keep the conversation going, instead of talking about the Cubs like you want, ironic, huh?

Just let it go and let the Cubs fans who are rightfully preturbed at White Sox fans and their inferiority complex. Poor White Sox fans......

"You just DON'T GET IT!!!"

No sir - I get it.

I JUST DON'T CARE.

"Just let it go and let the Cubs fans who are rightfully preturbed at White Sox fans and their inferiority complex. "

Seems to me like you have the same inferiority complex.

Again - Manny with another Sox post. Excellent stuff dude. The Sox Reporter is hiring a staff writer I believe.

X-
Funny you say you don't care, but yet YOU keep responding to my "sox posts". Hmmmmmm????

"YOU keep responding to my "sox posts". "

As funny as the fact that you keep making em...

Q: Can we get into as dumb a discussion as Crunch/MikeC?

A: Looks like we already did.

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