No, the Gagne is Not Always Greener

Something to distract from tonight's unpleasantness in Cincinnati:

The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel reports that Doug Melvin has no plans to unseat Eric Gagne as Brewers closer. A quick comparison:

G IP
H
K
BB
ERA S
BS
Kerry Wood 14 15 10 13 3 4.80 4 3
Eric Gagne 16 14.2 15 17 10 6.14 9 5


Gagne also has a WHIP of 1.7 and opponents are hitting .382 against him. Wood's numbers are 0.87, .189.

And the Brewers don't have Carlos Marmol as a Plan B.

Comments

This might be ignorant of me, but I really don't see Gange turning things around much this year, either. Sure his numbers will settle down a little, but this isn't Mariano Rivera having a trademark bad April, this Eric Gange who looks out of shape and not sharp at all.

Gagne = Glendon Rush with goggles

Not to mention the $10MM paycheck.

Speaking of closers, did anyone ever figure out why LaTroy Hawkins sucked? His stuff was always good and his slider had good bite. It was puzzling.

David Weathers can go in and easily get guys out with mediocre 82 MPH sinkers, but LaTroy Hawkins gets lit up on sharp 84 MPH sliders. Location & walks were always a problem, but still...

Maybe LaTroy lost confidence in the slider -- my memory is that he threw mostly 92-94 mph fastballs without great movement or location. Hitters sat on the fastball and eventally hammered it.

This is all well and good, except we haven't had many leads to save lately, losing 8 of the last 11.

Come back when there is more sample size with our guys, then we can have something to really compare.

David Weathers: "...David Weathers can go in and easily get guys out..."

Uh, not really. 4.32 ERA 2+ WHIP

Don't think this is "easily out" stuff for a short guy.

Not well liked in Cinci. Sucked here for the most part, too.

Weathers had 45 saves over '06-'07, with a 3.50-ish ERA. That's probably what was being referenced.

Why don't you include Gagne's '05/06 stats?

Because I was talking about Weathers. The comment was he easily gets guys out, and you disagreed. Not only was my response not about Gagne, neither was your original comment. So why would I reference Gagne?

If you are referencing "old stats" (which was not made clear in the comment that Weathers "easily gets guys out..."), and the original post is comparing Wood to Gagne, why not compare Gagne's old stats? David Weathers was not a topic of the lead submission by Cubnut, either. What's the difference?

"Whatever."

I was making a guess as to what the Weathers comment was about. It still has nothing to do with Gagne. Sorry you can't see that.

Sorry you can't see my point either. You commented on Weathers (where the poster did not say "when"; I brought up old stats of Gagne.

Like I said: "Whatever."

Anyway, perhaps we could discuss something more meaningful, like what day Mark De Rosa breaks out of his slump?

No, I see your point. But it's not relevant. (Someone help me out here!??!) I was only commenting on your comment about Weathers. It just so happens that the comment was in a blog post about Gagne. Ryno brought up Weathers; you disagreed with his comment; I used old stats to suggest that maybe that's what he was talking about. End 'o subject.

DeRo will come out of it soon.

"DeRo will come out of it soon."

I hope so. OF all our "utility starters". He is my favorite, and generally pretty solid.

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  • "trout's one of the best, and at this point should probably win over donaldson (and should have more MVPs in the past, too), but the defensive aspect of valuing WAR still needs more tweaking...imo."

    that's from my 1st post. there's no suck involved in that. maybe with a few less posts about bullshit that point would have jumped out more.

    crunch 8 min 11 sec ago view
  • crunch - you do know that, taking defense out of the equation, Trout has led the AL in wRC+ each of those years, right?

    And, if you want to complain about position adjustment (which would be serious #crunchsplaining), he's been in the top 3 in the AL in WC (not park/league/position adjusted). And the only players ahead of him (if there were any players ahead of him) in any of those years have been DHs or 1B that play lousy defense.

    But sure - Trout sucks (or at least isn't as good as WAR says). Because it factors in defense and position.

    big_lowitzki 1 hour 12 min ago view
  • early tim tebow stuff rolling in...

    ran a 6.7 60yd (above average)...shagging flies in RF and showed off a rather impressive arm a few times, but average-at best on most of his throws...hit a few over the fence (both fields), fouled or weak contact a few...he's got a touch of power

    it'll be interesting to see who bites on this project, if anyone. he probably projected himself out of RF and into LF/1st because of his arm, but unless he can make that power work on a steady basis it'll be hard for him to play himself up anyone's system.

    crunch 1 hour 58 min ago view
  • LHP Clayton Richard (released by the Cubs earlier this month) is pitching very well as a starting pitcher for the San Diego Padres and could be a good candidate to get traded to a contender looking for a veteran SP before tomorrow night's post-season roster eligibility deadline.

    Because they released him, the Cubs are paying most of Richard's 2016 salary (the Cubs are on the hooks for $2M, minus the pro-rated portion of the MLB minimum salary that is paid by the Padres).

    Arizona Phil 3 hours 44 min ago view
  • it is honestly awesome (for real) that anyone would even have a strong opinion on AZL playoffs. i guess if you invest enough time watching it, you want to see a fair/just playoff structure.

    plus, the kids deserve it.

    crunch 3 hours 45 min ago view
  • The AZL team with the best record over the course of the full 2016 AZL season and the only AZL team to play .600 ball (the AZL Dodgers) did not qualify for the AZL playoffs, and the AZL East Division team with the best record over the course of the full season (the AZL Athletics) did not qualify for the AZL playoffs, either. 

    That's because of the ridiculous "split season" schedule most of the minor leagues now play, a stupid system that rewards mediocrity at the expense of the worthy. 

    Arizona Phil 3 hours 52 min ago view
  • Despite good movement on his fastball, I think location kept him from getting Ks. Left some pitches up and away that got hammered up and away. Then of course Travis Wood gave up the 2-run double in the 7th, but both runs counted against Arrieta.

    Charlie 4 hours 28 min ago view
  • "i'm gonna make you my main squeeze one day, bro. save the date."

    This level of discourse is #charming.

    #baseballtalk

    Tito 4 hours 29 min ago view
  • I would be having this discussion with anyone who (a) blathered on ad nauseum about the topic. (See, "Olt, Mike, not given an opportunity") or (b) responded directly to what I posted (which you did).

    Have a nice day.

    #baseballtalk

    Tito 4 hours 32 min ago view
  • what would you do without me? aside from having your posting content here cut by 75%+?

    i'm gonna make you my main squeeze one day, bro. save the date.

    crunch 4 hours 35 min ago view
  • In this instance, yes, I care more about the result of this big thing that isn't really a big thing.

    #crunchsplaining

    #willlistentojeffsullivanmorethanyou

    #blessyourheart

    #hitler

    #tcrmartyr

    #billyhamiltonwar

    #baseballtalk

    Tito 4 hours 35 min ago view
  • Two things:

    Fangraphs WAR #s include baserunning and Hamilton is elite at that. He leads in SBs with the 54 and and has an 87% rate which is really good. I'm sure once he gets on base he's able to take the extra base quite often too. Both those things will up his overall WAR value.

    The differences between BR and FG WAR is pretty well documented online and thus If there are discrepancies it's fairly easy to figure out why. It's fairly well accepted that BR WAR is fine as a snapshot but FG is better at predicting future value.

    johann 4 hours 40 min ago view
  • i have no doubt at all you quit reading at that point. you're very enamored with outcomes without caring what it takes to get there.

    the fact it's exploitable, especially without someone to cover the running game for him, as well it's evolution in how people are testing possible exploits is interesting to some people...to me...i'm some people...hurrah.

    some people want to check the boxscore to see who won, some want to know how it went down.

    crunch 4 hours 52 min ago view
  • I read it as him saying it's not really that much of a concern and that the one time it really cost Lester, vs. K.C., was an anomaly.

    #baseballtalk

    Tito 4 hours 58 min ago view
  • if jeff says it, it's cool...when i say it, it's straight from the mouth of hitler.

    aside from the lack of jeff touching on the insane leads runners take and lester's inability to throw if he's fielding, this is a lot of what i've said about the issue.

    exploitable, needs his own personal catcher to control his shortcomings, relies on his ability to get outs along with his personal catcher keeping runners in check before things become further exploited...

    crunch 5 hours 15 sec ago view
  • That would be Rice Krispy Treat

    The E-Man 6 hours 18 min ago view