Winter Meetings ‘06: Day Two Rumor Roundup

I was going to start this yesterday but the servers decided to spontaneously combust. I figure besides the July tradeline, the Winter Meetings are the best time for unfounded rumor mongering and I'm more than happy to help. So I've got ESPN News on, about 25 tabs open in my browser, the Score streaming and an IV drip of coffee. I'll see if I can keep it up. I'm going to try and keep it mostly Cub related, even if it's players that have been connected with the Cubs talking to another team. New posts will go above the old posts. 5:25 PM - Bruce Miles gives us a quick update and has a Cubs source saying that Jacque Jones did not "formally" ask for a trade. Also some whispers of a Kevn Mench for Jon Lieber swap. 4:28 PM - Steve Phillips wasted ten minutes of my time just now on ESPN News. - Lilly's agent Larry O'Brien says the Blue Jays will need to get creative to land Lilly and that the Cubs have stepped up their offer on Lilly and are willing to pay him what he wants. Piniella called Lilly to entice him to the Northside as well. - Maddux deal seems to be done. 4:15 PM Probably the last update for a bit, but Rosenthal puts the Mariners in the Zito sweepstakes, and gives the Dodgers the lead for Schmidt citing his ties to Colletti and trainer Stan Conte (recently hired by the Dodgers). 3:39 PM - Ryan Church is on the block and the Cubs may be interested. Nats are probably looking for young pitching and Church isn't going to get a blue-chipper in return. I say cough up Carlos Marmol or someone similar and see if they bite. At worst, Church is a good 4th OF with good plate discpline and decent power from the left side. 2:56 PM - Rosenthal is back on the Maddux to Padres rumors stating that they're at the "dotting-the-i's-and-crossing-the-t's stage" on a one year deal with a 2nd year option. 2:44 PM - Jacque Jones just did an interview on ESPN News and did a fantastic job of dodging questions. Asked directly if he asked for a trade, he said "I don't know about that, you know what I mean?" accompanied with a sly smile that indicated he didn't want to dig too deep a hole. He did say he had a rough go in Chicago last year with the fans, that some folks even got a hold of his phone number, received some hate mail, etc. As far as he's concerned he signed for three years as a Cub, but you got a sense he'd be thrilled to get out of here. He also said he hasn't spoken to Lou yet this offseason. 2:27 PM - The Mariners met with Lilly's agent on Tuesday, no word on an offer but Lilly does have motivation to go to the West Coast as I believe his wife is going to veterinarian school in California. 2:18 PM Julio Lugo's people and Boston have a meeting this afternoon, the Mets seem to be the only other suitor at this point. The Boston Globe writer says that there are "strong indications" that the Cubs are out of the running. 2:09 PM - Yawn, I'm losing faith in baseball GM's to pull off any noteworthy trades anymore. ESPN News had a report that the Pirates are making a push for Trot Nixon. I know, stop the presses. Speaking of ESPN, my DirecTV says a special edition of "Baseball Tonight" is supposed to be on, instead Skip Bayless is attempting to explain something regarding college football, although I'm fairly certain he didn't even know Lousville had a football team until a producer whispered it into his ear. 1:49 PM - The rumor mill seems to have dried up for a bit, but a Canadian paper indicates that Gil Meche's camp is intent on getting a deal done by the end of the meetings, while Lilly's people may wait until Zito signs in hopes that teams that missed out on Zito join the bidding. 12:37 PM - Rosenthal mentions the Cubs and Blue Jays as lead suitors for Gil Meche and that the Royals have offered Batista three years for $24 million. The previous ESPN link also says the Mets aren't interested in anyone but Zito at this moment although they don't seem willing to go beyond four to five years on a deal. 12:13 PM - Jayson Stark completely debunks the 3-way deal with the Rockies. 11:39 AM - Miguel Batista is drawing strong interest from the Royals, Mets and Braves. The article also gives the Cubs the upper hand on signing Gil Meche due to the Piniella connection. 11:32 AM - Bruce Miles rumor roundup gives us Noah Lowry possibly being on the block as well as Tim Hudson. 11:14 AM - Greg Maddux to the Padres is gaining steam once again. Looks like a one year deal with a second year option although with Scott Boras as his agent, expect this one to drag out for awhile. 11:04 AM - Kenny Lofton is drawing interest from the Rangers. - Mark Loretta has a 2 year offer from the Reds for $6 million total. Tuesday Morning Round-up - By now you've heard about the Jacque Jones rumors, the latest being a 3-team swap of Brad Hawpe to the Pirates for Paul Maholm and Jones and Marmol to the Rockies for sinker-baller Jason Jennings. In my book, that's not a 3-way deal, just two separate deals, but you can't expect Steve Phillips to think these things through. While it seemed odd the Cubs were searching for a left-handed bat, while simultaneously shopping one, word is now that Jones asked for a deal, the Sun-Times citing the departure of Dusty Baker as the reason, although racist bleacher fans I'm sure weighed into it as well. Jones apparently has a partial no-trade clause although the Rockies aren't on that list. - Speaking of Jennings, Twins and Astros are interested as well. - The same articles says the Royals are going to make a push for Gil Meche and Rockies are looking at Kenny Lofton. - Ted Lilly apparently has offers from the Cubs and Blue Jays at the moment and his agent is meeting with other teams today. - Same article has Hendry stating that Julio Lugo is "leaning" towards signing with a team that will let him play shortstop, likely the Red Sox. - Ryne Sandberg will be managing the Peoria affiliate next year. Oh, and I hate to be a hard-ass about this, but if you can't be bothered to read the comments then do not post in the comments. Far too many double posts of the same rumor and links are going on so please check before you post. And with this group, chances are if it's anything older than 10 minutes, you're probably late to the party.
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Comments

i am all for lugo leaning any way that doesnt involve him wearing cubbie blue.

get meche off the market while supposed targets that are high-pay/high-risk are around, too.

btw...with hawpe in RF, the horrible fielding holliday in LF, and helton at 1st...does that mean he's being shopped as a CF to COL?

just exactly how unhappy is he that baker left? couldnt have been much of a suprise. wonder what's really going down behind his motivation to be moved.

if he's gonna end up playing CF for someone anyway, why cant he play it for the cubs?

rockies don't seem so thrilled with hawpe, he was being benched down the stretch for Jeff Baker I believe.

That has nothing to do with Jones though who I assume would play centerfield. Baker may have been the reason cited but I would guess it had more to do with the dipshit fans and the run-ins. The dude was getting booed on his first homestand, fucking morons out there.

crunch,

I think that's why this is a "3 team deal." Maybe doing the first deal is probably contingent on COL being able to do the 2nd one. Then, they wouldn't have 3 corner OF's.

I guess that doesn't answer the question of who plays CF, but i don't think it will be Jones...

crunch...the trade to Col would send Hawpe to Pitt, so he could play center or RF.

ROB!

Really funny!

Please be sure to use a fine grade of espresso.

Keep us posted during your rendering wait periods...

I swear...Rob and Shawn's comments were not there yet! :)

Ha Dave, no worries, I'm really only annoyed when people post the same link or report the same rumor.

oh yeah...forgot about the NYY-RF-bleacher crew that somehow got transplanted all over wrigley field last year.

bullsh*t in the OF, behind the dugout, etc...yuppies and rednecks who dont understand that just because they paid $20-$200 for a ticket and bought $30 worth of beer it doesnt entitle them to a 2 for 4 performance and flawless D every game.

he had 2 "racist" incidents and a crapload of "heckling".

seriously, its people's right to heckle, but just like the heckler paid his money, i paid mine to watch a game, not amateur comedy night at the Chuckle Hut. J.Jones is getting 5.5m to perform and that's who i wanna see, not some dudes who think they're the show.

forgot about the 3-way trade aspect, too...thnx dave.

i forgot poland, too.

thnx shawn and dave...sigh.

lemmie see if i can post 20 more things before anyone else chimes in.

Not a lot of rumors this morning. Maybe everyone is still hung-over from last night.

Thanks for the rumor roundup, Rob.

I'm more convinced than ever that the Cubs have to get Jason Schmidt, and should be willing to throw the money at him to do it. Ted Lilly would be fine as a #3 or #4, but he struggles with HRs, BBs, and general focus. Schmidt, although a little older, is a professional pitcher, and I think he'll age just fine. Plus, Lilly is very similar to Rich Hill and I'm a big believer in mixing up the types of pitchers that opponents see in a series.

Would 3y/$50m be unreasonable for Schmidt? It would still give him a chance to get one last two or three year deal after it is completed. If the Cubs have to throw in a fourth year, then do so. They need Jason Schmidt.

3/50 for Schmidt? Wow...that would be a lot. And from the rumors that I have seen, that would dwarf other offers.

"11:04 AM
- Kenny Lofton is drawing interest from the Rangers."

Thank you, Texas. Please do your best. I loved Lofton during his cup of coffee at Wrigley, but Hendry better be able to do better than that.

Rather than trade Jones, who is a bargain in today's market, can't security just throw out puss heads who can't keep a clean mouth?

Personally, Lofton wouldn't bother me as a 1-year (or less) bridge to Pie if Jones is traded, which by all accounts looks extremely likely.

I'd rather sign Lofton for cheap and spend the extra money on pitching compared to signing Lugo.

Steve Stone was on the Score about 3 weeks ago and he said that he didn't think Schmidt would be a good fit in Wrigley. That Schmidt is a guy who throws high strikes past hitters and as he ages his velocity will naturally drop and then those high strikes will turn into hr's.

They blew it by not signing Padilla.

I'd like to see them work a three way trade and pickup Freddy Garcia, then sign Jeff Suppan.

Hendry is already falling back into the guy who refuses to pay the going rate for players. It makes no sense to sign ARam and Soriano and then try to fill the number 2 and 3 slots in the rotation with bargains. We're not the Kansas City Royals. If the Cubs really want to win then those number 2 and 3 pitchers who can win cost money. Spend it. Stop balking at Schmidt or Zito or whoever's price. Identify who will do the best here and go get them.

18 YEARS AGO TODAY (December 5, 1988):
Not the best trade the Cubs have ever made. The Cubs and Rangers complete a
9-player swap, with Chicago giving up OF Rafael Palmeiro, P Jamie Moyer, and P
Drew Hall in exchange for IF Curtis Wilkerson and pitchers Mitch Williams, Paul
Kilgus, and Steve Wilson, and a pair of minor leaguers to be named.

That's the famous "I was Frey'd and Zimmered" trade!

Raffy was dealt for interesting reasons, from what I've heard through the years.

Hint, hint, Cindy Sandberg. And I guess she liked Dave Martinez too.

Can't really say they "blew it" on Padilla, he would've been very nice for the Cubs, but 3/34 is probably too high, even in this market. Any more than that and you might as well start talking about Zito instead.

If it wasn't for that trade we might not have our current Pacific Rim scout. The trade is still paying dividends!

"one faulty concept, however: Jacque Jones patrolling center field in Coors Field (with Jason Jennings being the main piece winding up back in Chicago)."

Yeah, Rob. This is the quote from Stark.

So, is Lou thinking about JJones in center?

if Grudzielanek can go from StL to KC as a free agent, then why not Miguel Batista? Apparently it's a duel to the death between Stl/KC for the old geezer...I guess StL may be looking at him as backup closer in case Izzy's hip doesn't respond by next spring.

also Rosenthal sez Gil Meche is expected to go to the Cubs or BJ's...so is he the consolation prize for the team that doesn't get Ted Lilly?

http://tinyurl.com/ylolf6

Padilla wasn't coming here. He made it clear, apparently, that he wanted to remain a Ranger. I don't think his personality and Piniella's would have meshed well, anyway, and Hendry probably saw that.

I agree that Garcia would be great to have, but I'm afraid Kenny Williams would ream us in talent to get him.

I have NO interest in Jeff Suppan. Suppan's success is due to 1) pitching for Dave Duncan and 2) pitching with the STL crowd behind him. As much as I love the Cubs and hate the Cards, the Cubs don't have the same supportive base of fans that Cards do. Mind you, that's a good thing (they think Scott Spiezio is an awesome player and that Adam Wainwright is going to turn into the next Carpenter). If Supp leaves the Cards, which he likely will, he's not going to do as well.

Levine has one more minor deal in the works. NYY would send A-rod to the White Sox for Crede & F.Garcia. Said Cashman and K.Williams were meeting at 1am this morning. A-rod moving back to SS with Fields taking over at 3B, McCarthy moving into the rotation. That would probably trump the Soriano signing.

That would probably trump the Soriano signing.

Definitely, but is it likely to happen? No. Surely the Yanks realize they can and should get way, way more for ARod than Crede and Garcia.

Surely A-rod would nix that deal....

suppan's success?

he was pure trash to the cards until august.

unless duncan suddenly discovered something in the last month he was with the club he just had a few good starts down the home stretch at the end of the season.

hell, going into sept he had a 4.50-ish era with a 1.50whip.

he'll walk guys, he'll give up hits, and he'll give up homers.

Levine also just noted that even with the Lilly offer,it doesn't necessarily end the Schmidt speculation and Hendry is continuing to gage interest with Schmidt's agent.

Well, Little Nate, I didn't see Lofton play even one game last year but everything I've read on his outfield play has been pretty negative -- years are finally catching up to him. Maybe we just roll the dice and go with a Lofton/Pie combo, but Pie just doesn't sound quite ready yet.

I'm not crazy about Lugo as a CF idea. I wouldn't mind acquiring Lugo to play SS and trading Izturis, although I really like the Izzy brand of vacuum cleaner.

I wish he'd quit gaging interest and just offer him a contract.

How about.... 3 years/44 mill?

Levine also just noted that even with the Lilly offer,it doesn't necessarily end the Schmidt speculation and Hendry is continuing to gage interest with Schmidt's agent.

That's good to know. If Lilly's signing does not preclude the Cubs from going after Schmidt, I'll be very pleased.

Hendry's comments about how it was "imperative" to acquire at least one starter, and, in a perfect world, two, makes me think that he's going to get either Lilly or Meche. Perhaps he'll still go after Schmidt as well, but would need "the perfect world" scenario to work out, i.e. Schmidt decides to not go to the West Coast.

maybe so, but you have to admire the Sux for thinking big. Williams is also after V.Wells, though it seems TOR will hang on to him until the July deadline. The Sux window of opportunity is going to be narrowing after this season though. Buehrle, Vasquez, Garcia, Dye, Iguchi, Pods, Crede all FA's. Thome getting old. Sure they'll probably reup with a few of those guys but I think Buehrle is going home to STL and I can't see either Garcia or Vasquez coming back if the market for SP is going to mirror this off-season's. Hell, the Giants think the White Sox are getting old.

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/story.asp?i...

Should have mentioned this one before..

Those who know Schmidt say heís not looking to break the bank, but the Cubs might have to move from three years to four to get Schmidt. A right-hander who turns 34 next month, Schmidt is telling friends he wants to win now and that he doesnít necessarily have to remain on the West Coast.

"I wish he'd quit gaging interest and just offer him a contract."

well it's been reported that Schmidt doesn't have any interest in the Cubs, and Schmidt's agent is just using the Cubs' interest to get a better offer from SEA, LAD or SD. I think it was Rosenthal who said if the Dodgers don't get in on the ManRam sweepstakes, they will turn to Schmidt...and Schmidt seems to want to go home to SEA who is trying to move Sexson to free up $ for either Schmidt or ManRam or both.

Yanks talking to Pettitte on a return to the Yankees according to Verducci. How brutal would it be to see both Pettitte and Rocket back in the Bronx.

well it's been reported that Schmidt doesn't have any interest in the Cubs, and Schmidt's agent is just using the Cubs' interest to get a better offer from SEA, LAD or SD.

Where has that been reported? Do you have a link?

I did see the thing on the Dodgers. Also the Astros are said to be heavily interested in Schmidt if Petitte doesn't return, and now Petitte's said to be leaning toward the Yankees.

How brutal would it be to see both Pettitte and Rocket back in the Bronx.

That'd be great to see. It means they won't be in Houston.

well it's been reported that Schmidt doesn't have any interest in the Cubs, and Schmidt's agent is just using the Cubs' interest to get a better offer from SEA, LAD or SD.

Where has that been reported? Do you have a link?
---

I had not seen any reports that Schmidt doesn't have any interest in the Cubs either.

Not saying you are wrong Bogey, but do you have a link to confirm that?

It will make me a lot less pissed off when we sign Lilly for $10 per year and Schmidt gets $14 or so.

What all this activity and comments Hendry is making tells me is that he's going after the FA pitchers: A is either Schmidt or Zito, and B is either Lilly or Meche. His back up plan (which he indicates with his quote "some things I will not be able to do by myself") have to relate to trading for Westbrook or Jennings. This goes back to my earlier posts that the Cubs farm system probably doesn't have what CLE and COL are looking for (unless he wants to trade Pie or Patterson, and Veal). I read that Jimbo is thinking big (he's got the Trib's budget approval) and if their agents say yes, the rotation could be:

#1) Zambrano
#2) Schmidt or Zito
#3) Lilly or Meche
#4) Hill
#5) who cares (26 out of 30 in baseball suck)

Sorry if this has been posted but ESPN was reporting on TV over the noon hour that Meche and Lilly likely will be signed (by someone) by the end of this week.

dunno if hendry is gonna sign 2 FA pitchers...unless he has plans for trading for a CF to replace jones.

there's too much pitching as it is...the pen, especially.

hell, i still dont know where w.miller fits into this all and along with "the kids", a few which could easily be reliever/long-relief/emergency-starter types, there's:

dumpster/eyre/howry/ohman/wuertz/cotts/wood/novoa

already overloaded without even addressing marshall, guzman, ryu, mateo and marmol.

Schmidt and Zito probably won't be on the Cubs next year. Schmidt has made it clear that he wants to stay on the west coast. Zito would get crushed at Wrigley and he is asking to much. We'll probably have to settle for Lilly at our two spot, unless we can pull off a trade. Jennings would be great, but they asked for Hill. I also wouldn't give up Pie for him. Westbrook looks out of the picture after the Indians just added to their bullpen. Also, I heard that Jim was talking to the O's about a trade for Jacque. Maybe sweeten that up a little bit and ask for Bedard.

#44 of 44: By steve (December 5, 2006 02:26 PM)

Schmidt has made it clear that he wants to stay on the west coast.

Rob cited an article in post #35 that said the Schmidt/West Coast tie-in may not be all it has been built up to be.

Hell, I don't know if it is or not, but at least there is reason to believe we might have a chance.

there's been 100 articles saying Schmidt isn't SET on the West Coast, that's just the latest. Believe what you want though folks....

thanks for the ESPN1000 updates Bogey, they don't stream that out here in the West Coast.

The stuff about Schmidt wanting to stay on the West Coast is all speculation--kind of like the speculation after '03 that Maddux would sign on the West Coast to be near his beach home, or that Wood would sign with a Texas team this offseason, or that Nomar would sign with the White Sox because he's building a home in Winnetka, etc.

These are stories that sportswriters pull out of their asses when they don't have any actual rumors or information to report.

Hey Bogey,

another board out there that I don't really trust says that Levine reported that Cubs are looking at Ryan Church of the Nats and/or brining in Daryle Ward. Have you heard anything?

Rumor mill has dried up, everyone must be having a late lunch.

Hope that Church rumor is true, far better option than Lofton imo.

Reds completely deny the Loretta offer btw via rotoworld.

Extra RP's are always valuable trade fodder for good bench help (e.g. Novoa, Ohman, Ryu, Marmol, Mateo, et al).

Church would be a sweet acquisition, and we could get him for cheap, probably someone like Ohman.

or what about the reports that said Soriano wanted to stay on the east coast? the only thing that matters do these guys is the $ (not location)

I like the idea of having Church. That would probably mean that Pie is no longer in the Cubs plans and would open the door to him being the centerpiece of a deal to get a starter. Not sure what we'd have to give up for Church, but maybe we can get Bowden to do something dumb.

I doubt Church would affect Pie in any way actually. Church is a fill-in, a guy you hope keeps up what he's done in limited playing time. Pie is a big-time prospect and every indication by Hendry has been that CF is waiting for him as soon as Pie is ready to claim it.

Nats are on the outs with Church and would probably want young pitching. I'd want some confirmation of this rumor though as where I read it is hardly trustworthy.

"maybe we can get Bowden to do something dumb."

Shouldn't be to hard.... unless your name is Wayne Krivsky.

Heard Bowden on ESPN News yesterday and they asked him about not dealing Soriano and he did a fantastic spin job of touting all the draft picks they're going to have now. It was really amusing.

"Ripken dodges steroids questions Tuesday"

Gotta love sports journalism. The questions he dodged were not about his alleged use of steroids, but about the chances McGwire has of making the hall of fame.

Jacque Jones is going to be on ESPN News in the next few minutes..

Jacque Jones is going to be on ESPN News in the next few minutes..

Eeww, that has the potential to be not so good.

"Jacque Jones is going to be on ESPN News in the next few minutes"

Why on earth is his presence needed on ESPNews? Do you think he's not going to last one more day in Cubbie pinstripes?

I dunno, right now they're talking to some bonehead from Penn St trying to tell us that Paterno knows what he's doing. :) (that one was for Manny)

they now said Jones will be on in the next half hour...

THE Ryan Church???? Well Christ, let's trade Pie for the next available pitcher!!!
I mean RYAN CHURCH.......wow, we are pennant bound!!!!!!

Kidding aside, Church would be great as a 4th OF, fill-in player, but he's not going to bypass Pie.
What, wasn't Mackowiak available?

i dont want ryan church to be a cub cuz when i quickly scan TCR "church" looks too much like "crunch"

i wouldnt mind church, but if he came on the cubs would pretty much be a lock to lead MLB in Ks.

=p

Jacque interview supposedly up next after the commercial, they'll end up talking more about his trip to Japan I bet. I'll throw anything noteworthy into the post.

JJ seems a little arrogant and pissed at the Cubs.

Thanks Rob. You guys are doing a hell of a job with the gathering of all this winter meetings info.

Can you blame him?

jock's answer about whether he requested a trade as about as lame as his "good points" about why he should stay including the gem "you gotta do what you gotta do".

*shrug*

still, he gave a good interview and answered fully every question...even if he sidestepped a few direct answers.

ok, here is proof JJ is an idiot...

paraphrasing...

"I didn't eat any sushi in japan because it was too fresh. i do eat sushi in the u.s. though"

I could understand his saying he ate at KFC and McDonalds if he hated fish, but saying he wouldn't eat it because it was too fresh is just plain idiotic.

Also, at the end the reporter asked where he wants to play in 2007 and JJ paused, said "Ummm..." then finally said he made a 3 year commitment to the Cubs and he like to finish it. But he certainly didn't jump on it and gave the impression he wants out like a year ago.

If he feels that way, dump him today.

The last question Jones was asked tells me he doesn't want to be on the team anymore. He couldn't even bring himself to say....."Yeah the Cubs."

So what's his problem? The boo'ing? Seriously? I'd take some boo'ing for several millions dollars per year. Suck it up jerk.

Well, I wouldn't like to be called a 'latino' or 'spic' 24/7 while doing my job (and a good one, even if it turns out to be a one-season mirage); if Jones wants out, then dump him somewhere.

It went far beyond booing, Ryno.

He should have expected hate mail and all that crap. This is Chicago, not Minnesota. He should ignore the remarks and realize that some drunk, dumbass fans do that stuff.

if Jones wants out, then dump him somewhere.

If and only if the Cubs get something of value in return.

he should expect racist mail and taunts and calls on his personal phone and people ripping on his Mom? Intriguing...

his problem?

probably his 2 racism charged vocal callouts, the girl who threw a promo fastball at his head (or allegedly not), people calling him at home at his unlisted # to harass him, death threat letters...

and he's got a newborn kid.

wonder how much if any of this he had to put up in MIN, much less compressed into 1 year in chicago.

"So what's his problem? The boo'ing? Seriously? I'd take some boo'ing for several millions dollars per year. Suck it up jerk."

Well, booing is one thing.

HAte mail is something else. I would think that in this day, people could get past skin color and judge people on their skills/or lack of skills.

To call someone a "jerk" for discussing these feelings, if they are real, is pretty short-sighted in my opinion.

It is embarrasing to me to even think that some Cubs fans have to resort to this to show displeasure, and, it seems like this is giving "us" a rep that is not envionable.

Is this the same Jacque Jones mom who got in fans faces because they were booing her boy? And now she can't attend games anymore because the fans were mean to her?

Yeah, whatever.

Wow, this looks like its about to get ugly.

Just based on people's perceptions, did Jones act like he would simply prefer to get traded or was his attitude more along the lines that if he is not traded he is not going to be a happy camper come February?

Obviously he is under contract so we don't have to do jack, and if he is going to be a professional about this situation it would be best not to dump him simply for the sake of dumping him.

However, if his attitude is going to be a distraction this year, regardless of whether his problems with playing for the Cubs are justifiable or not, Hendry certainly has a problem on his hands.

Hope the Cubs honor his "request", the waters are too poisoned for a return. Hope we can all enjoy Floyd/Lofton flopping around out there, should be fun.

Or Crawford....got hold out that glimmer of hope damn it.

This is for MikeC, from Yahoo Sports:

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. ñ The recent contracts for outfielders Gary Matthews Jr. (five years, $50 million from the Los Angeles Angels) and Juan Pierre (five years, $44 million from the Los Angeles Dodgers) have convinced the Tampa Bay Devil Rays that their two young outfielders ñ Carl Crawford and Rocco Baldelli ñ might bring dramatic help for their starting rotation.

Shit, let's drop the subject before it's too late...

Just based on people's perceptions, did Jones act like he would simply prefer to get traded or was his attitude more along the lines that if he is not traded he is not going to be a happy camper come February?

Jones seemed like he wanted to be traded but didn't want to cause too much controversy. It seemed obvious to me that he just didn't enjoy anything about playing here last season and you can't blame him. Fans were booing him the first week of the year before he did or didn't do anything. Pretty disgusting in my opinion.

I agree totally.

The booing is disgusting? Are we going to have another 200 post debate on the pros and cons of booing again?

Booing is pretty normal in sports. Nothing disgusting about it. Well except a Jacque Jones AB against a lefty.

The first article on the Nat's MLB site says that the Cubs and Royals have shown interest in Church.

Fans were booing him on his first homestand wearing a Cubs uniform, either because they didn't like the signing or because he went 0 for 13ish, but more likely because a couple drunk fans decided they didn't like him and the dumbasses that sit there thought they'd join the fun because it seemed to get a rise out of Jones.

Yeah, I think that's ridiculous. If they booed him for his performance or some lack of hustle, I may actually understand, but none of that was the case last year.

Fans had already made up their minds about Jock before the season even started.

exactly and many decided to make race a factor which is the real sad part.

Umm, yeah, Mike C, if it takes 200 posts to get through to nuckleheads that booing guys before they even get out of the gate because they don't like a signing is stupid, sure, I think it's worth 200, 400, 800 posts to do that.

Don't like a signing? Boo Hendry.

You think you have the right to boo and hurl obscenities at players? Well, it's up to you what level you like to be at, I guess.

I'd like to think it had more to do with them not liking contract. Unfortunately, some of it probably was race, but I'd guess it was a very small few.

oh for fuck's sake...

Hawk Harrelson one of the 10 finalists for the Ford Frick award thanks to online voting.

Player Team EqA VORP
J.D. Drew LAN .305 34.9
Brad Hawpe COL .293 32.0
Moises Alou SFN .304 27.9
Bobby Abreu PHI .309 25.5
Jacque Jones CHN .280 24.6

I had no idea, but turns out JJ was 5th in the NL in VORP. Not an All-Star or anything, but who better is out there? Another thing, these numbers include all his PAs against LHPs, something that a sane manager would never have allowed to happen. I say get this guy a platoon partner (Murton?) and we're all good.

Who knew White Sox fans could use computers?

^^^among Right Fielders

I personally doubt race is WHY they chose to get on his case, the bad apples just decided to bring race into the equation which is the appalling part.

The ironic thing about the fans booing JJ because of his contract: the deal looks like a steal compared to this winter's contracts. 5/50 for GM, Jr?

Hawk sucks, but you've got to give him a little credit for the literally dozens of little catch-phrases he invented. Or maybe you don't, actually.

Washington Post also reporting Cubs interested in Church, along with Detroit, Pittsburgh and Houston

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yjvao3

It might have been just a way of Cubs fans letting out their frustrations. They didn't like the signing and didn't like the way the team had previously played. They ended the '04 season boo'ing Sosa. It's sad to see that some fans decided to zone in on Jacque and it didn't help the way he started the season. But for some fans to yell remarks about his skin color is just unsanitary.

Fans had already made up their minds about Jock before the season even started.

Let's be frank, many of us were among that group.

I will boo who ever I want whenever I want. That is why I live in American, I can do that when I want whenever I want.

Booing isn't the problem, it is taking it to the next level which is. Any fan or collection of fans can boo to their hearts content. It is their right as fans.

Now if they start all screaming, "Go home nigger" they have over stepped their bounds. But christ adjust your politically correct line of thinking and understand the reality of the situation.

If he is pissed off they are booing him I could give a rats ass. He has to play with it like the thousands of other players who have to play with it. He isn't any more special than anyone else.

But yes I will agree with the slurs have no place. But we are talking booing.

That being said this thread is going down hill quickly, might need to start a new topic because its going to get nasty in a minute.

I will boo who ever I want whenever I want. That is why I live in American, I can do that when I want whenever I want.

Shit, there's a lot I can do under the auspices of living in America and the freedom flag, doesn't make a lot of them right.

"...because it seemed to get a rise out of Jones."

This is a key fact that gets ignored due to the racism charges (which are no doubt true to an extent). Jones didn't do himself any favors when he started making bitter comments about the fans in his first few weeks as a Cub. There was one game in particular early in the season where he received a curtain call from the fans after big homer but then used the post game interview to slam the fans for booing him earlier that week. The drama snowballed from there.

Cubs fans can live with a loser, but they go into kill mode when that loser has a shitty attitude. It's why Corey, Sammy, Jacque, and Hawkins got booed so badly at times while guys like Blanco and Neifi can play like crap and have (admitedly ironic) fan clubs spring up on the web.

Shit, there's a lot I can do under the auspices of living in America and the freedom flag, doesn't make a lot of them right.

Exactly. Freedom isn't about being able to do whatever you want whenever you want. It's about being freely able to do the right thing.

"That is why I live in American, I can do that when I want whenever I want."
--

Mike's a Toby Keith fan...

I don't doubt that Jones could have handled things better, but let's just be clear who the blame should lie with and it's not Jacque Jones.

in actuality, it was Dusty, possibly even Neifi. :)

MLB.com reporting Yanks offered Pettitte a 1/15 deal with a 2008 option.

Pettitte for $15 mil? Holy shit, this is getting crazy.

"Fans were booing him on his first homestand wearing a Cubs uniform...

I was there the opening series and do not recall boing so early.

Particularly, Maddux pitched a gem, was spectavular with the bat, and the Cubs beat the Cards for the opener - and in fact the rest of the series was pretty damn good.

The booing started with the myriad strikeouts, poor throws, and terrible - all in a condensed period.

I booed him as well during the funk. This would happen in all of the Major markets (other than LA, ROB?), San Diego, St.Louis, Milwaukee, Minn.

BUT it ends there! Its just f'ng entertainment!

Booing is no excuse to be unhappy. It comes with the job in the public eye.

Racist or personal crap is different. I could be convinced that "fans" who engage in this should be identified and ejected. However, I don't believe he's the only player in the history of baseball who has encountered this. The way to handle it is to somehow defuse it or ignore it; to do otherwise only fosters it. It's also easier said than done.

I do not have a high regard for Jones as a player. He has no strike zone, is a poor baserunner and has a rag arm in the outfield. I do not know him as a man, only what I read about him and occasionally observe on WGN. I would love to see him leave the Cubs, but feel a little uneasy about the circumstances.

somone spent the time to transcribe/paraphrase most of Jones interview

http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/story/2006/12/...

I don't know if anyone actually has an answer to this, but do Cubs fans have a reputation for being more racist than other fans? I grew up in the Chicago area and have lived in several other areas since. I never considered the people of the Chicago area to be more racist than people in other areas. I've heard that the fans in Boston are considered rather racist, but I have trouble accepting that Cubs fans are worse than the fans of other teams. Am I wrong?

Just got home and read through everything, nice work, Rob.

This thread is only going to lead to problems, but:

It's one thing to boo poor performance, it's another to put up with race-based jeering and threats in a city, and nation, with a long history of intimidation and violence towards racial minorities. But if a person doesn't want to make that sort of moral and historical distinction, no post by me or anyone else is going to inspire him to do so.

We do ourselves a disservice, as Cubs fans, when we don't call bullshit "bullshit," and shout down the blockheads who instigate this sort of stuff.

Ok, there, that's all I have to say on that.

Regarding the Cubs' roster: Go for Lilly, pass on Meche. Jennings, either way....

Take a nap, Rob.

From MLB Hot Stove Report today:

"Aaron Rowand of the Phillies could be a target for the Cubs, who are seeking a center fielder."

It is very DUMB to say Jacque Jones should expect these bad & racist actions from Cub fans. Would you want someone calling your home, thowing baseballs at your head & making death threats? Why they didn't bring any charges against that woman is beyond me. To me this is sickening and the true Cub fans should take a stand when attending games at Wrigley. We treat Jacque Jones like this when He was the only one that stepped up his play when Derrick Lee was out but you did not hear anyone calling Aramis Ramirez racial names. I guess we only do this to Black Players. In case you did not know back in the day Wrigley Field was one of the most racist ballparks to play in, Are we returning to those days????

I Meant: The booing started with the myriad strikeouts, poor throws, and terrible BASERUNNING - all in a condensed period.

http://www.all-baseball.com/cubreporter/archi...

Do a find for "boo" on that thread and you'll see talk of booing Jones and that's the Game 4 Thread from this season. I read in at least one other place about booing Jones in the Cardinals series before he hit the game tying HR in the Sunday game.

Take a nap, Rob.

You're not the boss of me!!!!!!

How quick you all forget. Jacque Jones was behaving like a headcase IN SPRING TRAINING, blowing off friendly fans who wanted to get to know him but getting into verbal fisticuffs with others. In one case I witnessed in Tucson he got into a multi-inning battle with a guy (from Minnesota -- not Chicago) sitting opposite first base. Every time Jones would come in or go out to RF between innings the two of them would go at it. After a couple innings things got downright ugly and racist on both sides.

Methinks Jones' problems follow him around the way they do with Dusty Baker.

I will admit I heard nothing about Jones scuffling with fans in spring training. Was this widely reported?

I seem to remember that CWTP....and wasn't it Jones hurling the racist remarks first? I could be totally way off and thinking of something else. But it wasn't made a big deal of then.

I think most of us agree boo'ing is ok and racist comments and downright harrassment (including throwing balls at someone) is not acceptable. The question is, does Jones have a legitament complaint? I say no, if someone is bothering him and breaking the law, you have legal recourse; If they are just exercising their rights, move on, suck it up.

Ryno...you are saying that racist comments and harassment are not okay, but Jones does not have a legitimate complaint. Care to clarify?

jones has a pretty publically documented complaint...and it was all compressed into 7 months, from spring training through the end of a horrid losing season where boo's and hate flowed.

hell, jones was getting boo'd in april even when the f'n team was winning.

Rotoworld says there's talk of the Astros acquiring Josh Bard (which would be a great move for the 'Stros). Rotoworld then speculates that the Padres might try to trade for Michael Barrett. Depending on the deal and who we include with him, I'd love to send Barrett to San Diego for, say, Chris Young or Adrian Gonzalez.

"I read in at least one other place about booing Jones in the Cardinals series before he hit the game tying HR in the Sunday game."

Gee, Rob, I honestly do not recall much if any booing in the two of three games I attended that opening series. I can tell you that it was en masse.

Personally, I was advocating for him and was glad the team signed him over the bloated, over-the-hill Popeye.

What I find so amusing in everyone making these comments about Cub fans tendencies is that there may be some individuals that use slurs which is regrettable but simply for ball players to use that as a crutch and misdirect the real issue as guys like Jones or Hawkins have is simply misleading. The fact is that Jones played terrible at times and he got off to a terrible start coupled with some of his incredulous statements none of which went over too well with many fans. Look there is no place for slurs but fans have every right to boo and jeer and for anyone to suggest otherwise is completely off base. Fans don't boo simply because of the color of the playerís skin they booed because the player played poorly. As for Jacques Jones, he is like all free agents that sign with a team for millions of dollars and high expectations they are on the hot seat and need to produce

With Texas still looking for outfield help and Jimbo's history with Texas, why not send Jones, Izzy and Marshall/Marmol for Michael Young. A solid SS who collects 200 hits a year, with a crapload of doubles to hit in the 2 hole... eh?

And MikeC... i'm with ya on the Crawford dream...

Depending on the deal and who we include with him, I'd love to send Barrett to San Diego for, say, Chris Young or Adrian Gonzalez.

Gonzalez is a first baseman. Why would the Cubs make that trade?

I dont hate anyone or anything but the Cardinals and their fans. Oh, and Republicans. And ska music. And pickled herrring. Dang. I guess I do hate some things.

dave:
Ryno...you are saying that racist comments and harassment are not okay, but Jones does not have a legitimate complaint. Care to clarify?

Correct, and... what do you want me to clarify? Racist comments & harrassment are not okay because they are bad. Please tell me I don't need to clarify this.

Jone's is like any other athlete... when he plays bad the crowd will not be pleasant. Especially late in the game with thousands of drunk Cub fans. If someone is breaking the law, report them, get them arrested, whatever, that's a totally different issue.

Maybe they need to beef up security and stop selling beer if it's so bad.

I do like nerds, though. Nerds rule.

michaelweaselo:
Oh, and Republicans.

But you don't even know me... ;)

I don't hate Democrats.

That's not very tolerant at all.

Man now you can see why this team played as bad as they did. its apparent dusty did nothing to control these guys or help mentally.
Good ridance...lets start fresh
Im really getting worried thought that our team will be in about the same shape as last year with only the addition of soriano and subtraction of ojens and pierre i dont see how were goonna be better offensively... hec theriot probably would be the better hitter at second.....
Pitching is getting scary at this point if these rumors our true doesnt look like were gonna hve anything better than second tier starters other than Z...... I hope a miracle happenes this week and Hendry can sign someone

Gonzalez is a first baseman. Why would the Cubs make that trade?

You're right. I could have sworn he played a little OF too, but I guess not. Still, they could spin him off to someone looking for a 1B/DH.

Correct, and... what do you want me to clarify? Racist comments & harrassment are not okay because they are bad. Please tell me I don't need to clarify this.

You are saying that what Jones received from fans was wrong, but that he has no valid complaint. I don't get it.

Are you saying that the fans were wrong, but Jones shouldn't complain about it?

Yes, I suppose that's it. I mean what's the guy making now? 5 mil? You'd think for that kind of money he could what other professional athletes do, just ignore the assholes making racist comments.

... he could *do* what other ...

Sandberg is supposed to be on ESPN News coming up...

How does income equate with tolerance towards racism again?

Yes, Jones could have turned the other cheek so to speak, but he didn't. I don't think he should be expected to tolerate it just because of his profession of choice and because some of his peers have done so in the past.

and in regards to dusty, jones had one the best season of his career despite the distractions. The baserunning and throwing problems were there well before he arrived in Chicago.

Maddux deal is for 1/10 with a player option for $6 mil that can go up to $10 mil if he pitches 200 innings next season.

"Aaron Rowand of the Phillies could be a target for the Cubs, who are seeking a center fielder."

Has anyone heard who the Cubs would be sending to Philadelphia? Also, does anyone know Rowand's contract status? He was signed through 2006 with a mutual option for 2007, but Cot's Baseball Contracts says that option was declined by both parties in November.

"Aaron Rowand of the Phillies could be a target for the Cubs, who are seeking a center fielder."

Has anyone heard who the Cubs would be sending to Philadelphia? Also, does anyone know Rowand's contract status? He was signed through 2006 with a mutual option for 2007, but Cot's Baseball Contracts says that option was declined by both parties in November.

I wouldn't mind seeing Rowand in a cubs uni. he's a decent hitter and a great fielder.. but hes inconsistent.. i would rather go with lofton in CF for a year then bring up pie

I wouldn't mind seeing Rowand in a cubs uni. he's a decent hitter and a great fielder.. but hes inconsistent.. i would rather go with lofton in CF for a year then bring up pie

FoxSports:

"Free-agent right-hander Vicente Padilla received four-year interest from the Cardinals and Cubs before agreeing to his three-year, $34 million deal with the Rangers."

SI reporting that Drew deal is done 5/70

I don't hate republicans either, just Bushists. He hijacked the republican party. The sooner real republicans realize this, the sooner they can be relevant again. Democrats are totally inept.

that Rowand rumor is pretty weak to be honest. Cubs have shown little interest in anyone else right-handed and the rumor is phrased as if the writer is just pairing teams with CF needs and available CF's.

if one person picks up on comment #154 I'm deleting it and every related comment.

Sandberg will be on in about 20 minutes...

Rowand attended Cal State-Fullerton. Maybe that's some sort of omen for Trans...

Scott McGregor at the Daily Herald is reporting that Rowand could be heading back to the Southside. The rumored deal would involve the Sox sending Freddy Garcia to Philadelphia.

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/story.asp?i...

Did anyone really think Manny was gonna get traded? Those GM's ain't foolin' me. The speculation is just to drum up interest. Smart. And it works. I'm interested.

Of course you're interested... you live in Arkansas.

Don't believe the hype, Carlos. Arkansas ain't so bad.

It sure beats the hell out of Mexico!

Sandberg said a whole lot of nothing if anyone cares. Did say that he hoped the writes sent a message in regards to not voitng McGwire into the HOF, said too many questions were floating around.

Barring an intense last five hour period, this has been another disappointing winter meetings day.

"Schmidt has made it clear that he wants to stay on the west coast.

"Rob cited an article in post #35 that said the Schmidt/West Coast tie-in may not be all it has been built up to be."

well he did rule out all east coast teams...why would he or his agent essentially eliminate the major market NY or BOS clubs if $ was that big a deal to him? We're talking about an extra hour or two of airplane time, is a slightly closer mid-west club(either STL or the Cubs) going to be that much more attractive if all things are equal and Schmidt is able to choose from SEA, SD or the Dodgers? Towers doesn't seem to be in on Zito thus far so if a ManRam trade doesn't go down I think Towers will go hard after Schmidt and I believe he has a home in AZ...and SD competes every year so I can't see Schmidt taking a Cubs offer even if it included an extra year and a mill or two extra.

One of the MLB radio guys spoke with Schmidt's agent yesterday and he seemed to come away with the notion that Schmidt definitely wants to stay on the west coast....fwiw. Levine is still insisting that Hendry continues to speak with Schmidt and his agent but obviously until a deal gets done all offers are just driving up Schmidt's pricetag, so no offer is going to be refuted at this point. STL would seem to be a more attractive destination to a guy like Schmidt, and since reportedly Jocketty has offers out to resigning Weaver and Suppan it would appear that he doesn't think they have a shot at him. As much as I would like to see Schmidt here (even with the risk of injury) rather than overpaying for a healthy Lilly at appx 4/$40m I just don't see it unless Hendry vastly (see Soriano deal) overpays.

"Hey Bogey,

another board out there that I don't really trust says that Levine reported that Cubs are looking at Ryan Church of the Nats and/or brining in Daryle Ward. Have you heard anything?"

nope, haven't heard either of those names thrown out by Levine today. Just the Hendry and Schmidt redundancies and the K.Williams/Cashman info.

Hawk Harrelson one of the 10 finalists for the Ford Frick award thanks to online voting.

for Hawk Harrelson haters, check this link out

http://www.heavethehawk.com/

the site used to have a hawk on the splashpage that would exude fecal matter when you entered...pretty funny and disgusting stuff.

well sure, all things being equal I'm sure he'd prefer to stay near his home, no one is arguing that. The question will come down to how much money Schmidt is willing to walk away from, assuming it comes down to that.

It still worries me that the Giants who need pitching, don't mind veterans and have money haven't even bothered with him.

It still worries me that the Giants who need pitching, don't mind veterans and have money haven't even bothered with him.

yea...i have thought the same thing. then again, the Giants have done a lot of off things already this off-season, so i don't know if it really means much. it may mean that schmidt just isnt interested in staying there.

Rob G -- That's a great point. I haven't heard anything at all about the Giants pursuing Schmidt, and the Giants are "cornering the market on older and slower" according to Will Carroll. Why wouldn't they want him back? No team is more familar with Schmidt than San Francisco. They have money to spend and Schmidt would prefer to stay on the West Coast. Yet there haven't been any rumors linking the two. Strange...

FYI to you other Cubs season ticket holders...

Word is that Wrigley Field will be hosting another major concert this upcoming summer. The Dave Matthews Band (DMB) will be coming to Wrigley sometime during the All-Star Break (July 9-11) and playing 2 shows.

CHA CHING!!!

I always used to think Schmidt was kind of a big dumb jock, but I heard some interviews with him this summer and he seemed very sharp, very personable, very intelligent.

I don't doubt that he told the Giants "See ya" and that their lack of interest can purely be attributed to his lack of interest in returning.

"well sure, all things being equal I'm sure he'd prefer to stay near his home, no one is arguing that. The question will come down to how much money Schmidt is willing to walk away from, assuming it comes down to that.

It still worries me that the Giants who need pitching, don't mind veterans and have money haven't even bothered with him."

exactly, so if SEA, LAD or SD offered around the same 3/$45m deal he isn't going to take that over the Cubs? With retirement nearing, the fact the Cubs average a playoffs appearance every decade or so, he's going to turn down a consistently contending club or his hometown team over a mill or two and possibly an extra year?..doubtful. Hendry would have to roll out a ridiculous 4/$70 contract or something like that.

I also wondered why SF wouldn't reup with Schmidt. I'd imagine his shoulder is in worse shape than has been reported. The Chronicle reiterated the other day that at the end of the year his velocity was 90-91 so that's probably a pretty good starting point. After Sabean resigned Durham I kind of figured that SF wasn't going to be going younger and I think it's strictly the injury risk and declining velocity that's keeping Sabean & the Giants away. There's probably a pretty good chance that he's going to morph into the Yankee version of Randy Johnson and he's going to have to learn how to pitch rather than just throw and I don't think he has the secondary pitches to be more than a .550 pitcher. Plus curve, not much else without that 95-97 mph FB.

well one extra year is a rather big deal if your talking $13-$15 a year, especially at his age as health starts becoming a real concern.

Bogey:
http://www.heavethehawk.com/

the site used to have a hawk on the splashpage that would exude fecal matter when you entered...pretty funny and disgusting stuff.

Priceless! I love it!

LA Times reporting that Stoneman does not want to give up Joe Saunders for Chad Tracy.

What is with you Stoneman?

LA Times also says Gagne won't be back to the Dodgers but he does have a 1/5 offer somewhere.

"well one extra year is a rather big deal if your talking $13-$15 a year?

well that would depend on whether Schmidt plans on pitching that long. If he could win a World Series within the first two years, say with the Dodgers, I could see him walking away. He doesn't strike me as a Maddux lifer type. He throws like 85-90% FBs so he likes to flame hitters, I can't see him hanging around nibbling corners at 91 trying to fool hitters.

Bogey thats all good and well but here is your quote, the one that initially started the Schmidt West-Coast bias discussion this afternoon:

"#36 of 175: By Bogey (December 5, 2006 01:58 PM)

well it's been reported that Schmidt doesn't have any interest in the Cubs, and Schmidt's agent is just using the Cubs' interest to get a better offer from SEA, LAD or SD."

It is pretty common knowledge at this point that Schmidt would most likely prefer to stay on the West Coast rather than sign with a Mid-West team, but that is different than saying "it's been reported that Schmidt doesn't have any interest in the Cubs"

It's really no big deal, it's simply speculation all around at this point regardless. It just caught my attention and apparently the attention of others when you stated "Schmidt doesn't have any interest in the Cubs."

I'm guessing by your lack of citing some sort of source, that it still currently appears Schmidt would prefer to stay on the West Coast. However, his agent appears willing to at least talk to the Cubs and see if we can offer the most money.

So it is safe to say he does have some interest in the Cubs, even if that interest is 100% tied into the possibility of us blowing away all of the West-Coast teams offers.

Fair enough?

One thing that is true is that some players who would prefer to play on the West Coast will also consider teams that have Spring Training in Arizona.

Signing with the Cubs would allow Schmidt to spend an extra couple of months living at home. (Schmidt and Kerry Wood are just about next-door neighbors, BTW), instead of spending every February and March across the country in Florida.

So I can understand how Schmidt would consider playing for the Cubs when he might not be interested in signing a deal with the Yankees, the Red Sox, or even the Cardinals.

When interviewed Schmidt's agent spoke with a good deal of depth on SEA, SD, LAD, even the Angels who haven't been rumored to have any interest. When asked about the Giants, Cubs and Cards he virtually mentioned nothing except that the Cubs have some "nice" pieces in place and that he respects Jocketty and the Cards organization. Maybe it's just me but his tone gave me the idea that he's not that interested...sure it could be just a front but to me it sounded like he's not that interested in Chicago or even STL. If he was, I'm sure Jocketty would've made a run at him before putting together a plan to overpay for Weaver and Suppan. Yes, it's all speculation at this point. That's why we're all here. The hot-stove is more exciting than 85% of the regular season.

I'm guessing by your lack of citing some sort of source, that it still currently appears Schmidt would prefer to stay on the West Coast.

Exactly. Bogey, if you're going to say something like "it's been reported Schmidt has no interest in the Cubs" you need to provide the source of who actually reported it. Otherwise, not only will people hound you for that source, the value of your own word is also lowered.

the well has dried up, I'll be back late tonight or tomorrow with a new batch of baseless rumors.

FREE JACQUE JONES!!!

#183 of 184: By Bogey (December 5, 2006 08:59 PM)

"Maybe it's just me but his tone gave me the idea that he's not that interested...sure it could be just a front but to me it sounded like he's not that interested in Chicago or even STL."
-

Bogey, that is a little different than saying:

"it's been reported that Schmidt doesn't have any interest in the Cubs"

Again, its not a big deal. Simply was asking for a source after I read a comment that the #1 Free Agent pitcher we should be going after (at least in my mind) has reportedly no interest in the Cubs.

I understand where we all stand now. Your comment was based on 100% speculation concerning your perception of comments Schmidt's agent made.... and it definitely has not been reported Schmidt has no interest in the Cubs.

Sounds good to me.

#182 of 186: By Arizona Phil (December 5, 2006 08:55 PM)

So I can understand how Schmidt would consider playing for the Cubs when he might not be interested in signing a deal with the Yankees, the Red Sox, or even the Cardinals.
-

Although for different reasons than the location of spring training facilities, Uncle Lou similarly decided that he would agree to manage in the Mid-West while taking his name out of the running for the Giants job because they were on the West Coast (at least that was his stated reason).

Point being, just because someone has no desire to manage or play for a team on one Coast doesn't necessarily rule out Mid-West teams. Judging by discussions at least taking place between the Cubs and Schmidt's agent, that appears to be the case here also.

well Andrew not all info comes from a print source or haven't you heard of radio or reporters? There are no links to Bruce Levine articles yet he breaks vitually every Chicago baseball story. Weird. Same in this case, I just couldn't remember the name of the personality as those mlb guys are all from NY and have the same NYC accent, they are indecipherable to me most of the time. Relax, your life won't end if Schmidt changes his mind.

ESPN has Lugo to the Red Sox for 4/$36. Let the Jacque Jones vs. Soriano in CF debate begin.

BOS agrees with lugo.

now for christ's sake...someone sign meche before he becomes a serious cubs option.

no worries Nate, of course i meant reportedly or seemingly, not "it's been reported"...my bad.

No reason to panic yet on CF. I didn't want Lugo for CF anyway, what a horrible idea in the first place, what dimwit in the Cubs organization thought that one up?

Soriano has max long term value in CF, that's where I want to see him. Once Jones leaves (please!), you can pursue a platoon option for RF, that might be interesting. Ryan Church and Wily Mo Pena?

I am concerned though that half our offensive lineup at this point will be Murton, Izturis, DeRosa, and TBD outfielder. Plus Henry Blanco at catcher every 5th game. There's a lot of outs and not much thump in that group. We need more bats, plain and simple.

well Andrew not all info comes from a print source or haven't you heard of radio or reporters?

Well I agree, but simply stating "it's been reported" doesn't tell me you're talking about a radio source or Bruce Levine. If you can't remember Levine's name, all you have to do is say, "I heard it on the radio." It's just far too common for people (not you necessarily) to give an authoritative ring to something they're making up or logically inferring.

Relax, your life won't end if Schmidt changes his mind.

Yes, of course, thanks. I agree with Little Nate that this isn't that big of a deal, and I've had no problem with things you've written. It's more the point of the matter. I think you'd agree that there have been post-ers here before that have abused the confidence/trust of the others by making shit up, so it's always helpful to post where you are hearing/reading something.

of course i meant reportedly or seemingly, not "it's been reported"...my bad.

Well, that changes everything, of course. Sorry if I was too harsh in jumping your case.

Speaking of Schmidt and sources:

The Cardinals are targeting free agent Jason Schmidt, though they may not go beyond three years to sign him.

"There's a question of how far we go, but we're going," GM Walt Jocketty said. "We'd like to have him." Agent Randy Hendricks said Schmidt was receptive to St. Louis, and that the team's reluctance to go beyond three years wouldn't be much of a problem. However, it appears likely that Schmidt will get $60 million over four years from some team, perhaps the Cubs or the Dodgers.

Per cardinals.mlb.com via Rotoworld.

Gotta do whatever it takes to keep Schmidt out of St. Louis

4/60 for Schmidt is more per year than Chris Carpenter just got. I just don't see him getting that.

carp had 2 cheap years left to be had under his restructured deal. 7m + 8m club option.

his new deal basically gives him 15+ a year to extend him 3 more years.

CRUNCH: Lilly or Meche. Its gonna be one or the other - get used to it - compare - who would you rather have?

well, i actually like lilly and would have no problem with him being a #2/3 guy.

lilly may have stamina and "focus" issues, but meche is on year 4-5 of unrealized potential. he's kris benson-lite at best, imo...

my main concern is 2008-2010 payroll, honestly (esp. 08/09).

everyone's gonna get overpaid this year, but overpaying now doesnt mean just overpaying now.

Z's still due to get a big deal, himself.

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