The Baseball Draft: The Coulda’ Been Cubs

Submitted by Rob G. on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 2:13am
Part 1 Part 2 Trivia Question: Name two current NFL players who were once drafted by the Cubs? I'll end this look back at the Cubs drafts through the years by looking at some of the players the Cubs had a chance at obtaining or gave up too early on. This is all for fun and there are no fingers being pointed here. Just a frivolous look at who could have been Cubbies if the things broke the right way. In Part I, I introduced the all-time greatest drafted Cubs, a list of players drafted by the Cubs and their contributions as Cubs. Here's that list again to spur your memory. Position Played/Round Taken/Career Cubbie Win Shares 1. Mark Grace (1b/24/269) 2. Rick Reuschel (P/3/155) 3. Shawon Dunston (SS/1/112) 4. Lee Smith (P/2/104) 5. Greg Maddux (P/2/102) 6. Ken Holtzman (P/4/75) 7. Kerry Wood (P/1/72) 8. Steve Trachsel (P/8/58) 9. Rick Wilkins (C/23/55) 10. Ray Burris (P/17/49) But what if the Cubs never made a move and all the players the Cubs ever drafted and signed played for the Cubs and contributed just as they did with other teams. Here's the best talents ever selected (and signed) by the Cubs: 1. Rafael Palmeiro (OF/1/385) 2. Greg Maddux (P/2/359) 3. Mark Grace (1b/24/294) 4. Joe Carter (OF/1/240) 5. Rick Reuschel (P/3/240) 6. Lee Smith (P/2/198) 7. Joe Niekro (P/4/189) 8. Oscar Gamble (OF/16/177) 9. Burt Hooten (P/1/164) 10. Ken Holtzman (P/4/157) Signability has always been an issue with the draft and the Cubs have missed out on an assortment of talent for various reasons. THE NEVER SIGNED CUBS P - Jon Lieber (1991/9th) P - Kevin Tapani (1985/9th) P - Mark Langston (1978/15th) P - Ken Forsch (1967/4th) P - Bob Welch (1974/14th) P - Jim Otten (1971/1st) P - Tom House (1965/11th) P - Tom Henke (1980/1st) 1B - Darrell Evans (1965/13th) SS- Khalil Greene (2001/14th) SS - Adam Everett (1995/4th) SS - Eddie Leon (1966/1st) 3B - Jeff Cirillo (1987/37th) 3B - Jeff King (1983/23rd) OF - Ray Lankford (1986/3rd) OF - Terry Francona (1977/2nd) Many of those players were selected out of high school and decided to go to college and there are 2 names missing from the list that you may recognize, although their baseball prowess is unknown. Current NFL-ers Antwaan Randle-El(1997/14th) and Quincy Carter(1996/2nd) were both selected out of high school by the Cubs and in Carter's case even played a few seasons within the organization. Screwing up the draft can happen in many forms, including missing out on superior talent. Here's a list to get your blood boiling, a team of players the Cubs could have drafted but chose someone else. I had to put some restrictions on this list. First, I tried to look no further then 5 spots below where the Cubs picked that year. Anymore then 5 spots and I figured that no matter how well the player may have turned out, it was likely they weren't considered to be that good on draft day, although on a few rare occasions I'll stretch that guideline. I also stuck to the first round of the June regular phase of the draft and restricted it to only one missed pick per year. In other words, the Cubs could only have selected either Billy Wagner or Derrek Lee in 1993 instead of Brooks Kieschnick but not both. The second player at each position is the player the Cubs chose instead. ALL-TIME JUST MISSED TEAM P - Dwight Gooden (1982/5th); Shawon Dunston(1982/1st) P - Jack McDowell(1987/5th); Mike Harkey (1987/4th) P - Roger Clemens (1983/19th); Jackie Davidson (1983/6th) P - Billy Wagner (1993/12th); Brooks Kieschnick(1993/10th) C - Ray Fosse (1965/7th); Rick James (1965/6th) 1B - Mark McGwire (1984/11th); Drew Hall (1984/3rd) 2B - Chuck Knoblauch (1989/25th); Earl Cunningham (1989/8th) SS - Garry Templeton (1974/13th)/Scot Thompson (1974/8th) 3B - Robin Venura (1988/10th)/Ty Griffin (1988/9th) OF - Manny Ramirez(1991/13th); Doug Glanville(1991/12th) OF - Lance Berkman(1997/16th); Jon Garland (1997/10th) OF - Gary Matthews (1968/17th); Ralph Rickey (1968/15th) One pick away from Robin Ventura and Manny Ramirez...nice work Jim Frey, nice work! That '91 draft, Frey could have also picked, Cliff Floyd (13th pick) and Shawn Green (16th pick). Clemens and McGwire were a bit of a stretch, but particularly in the case of Clemens, the Cubs had an opportunity to select a college pitcher over a high school one and paid for it, something many organizations have done time and time again. I truly had to stretch for a second basemen, eventually settling for Knoblauch. Second basemen are RARELY chosen in the first round and many second basemen are originally shortstops who convert, as is the case of Knoblauch. Chase Utley (2000/15th) could have also gotten the nod over Luis Montanez(2000/3rd). There is my look back at the baseball draft through the eyes of the Cubs organization. I hope you enjoyed the pieces and hopefully next year I'll expand on them. Thanks to The Baseball Cube(www.thebaseballcube.com), Baseball Reference(www.baseball-ref.com), Birds in the Belfry(www.birdsinthebelfry.com), Baseball Americaís Draft Almanac, Win Shares by Bill James and Jim Henzler and the 2005 ESPN Baseball Encyclopedia. Look for a preview/review of this years draft next week.
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Comments

Submitted by tbone  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 5:26am  
One of the great disappointments of the 90s, aside from letting the best pitcher in the league leave, were the injuries to Mike Harkey. The guy had great stuff. I was at the first game he ever pitched, the second game of a double header against the Phillies, and Harkey hit the first MLB batter he faced in the head with a pitch. Early the next season he almost threw a no-hitter against the Padres. Because he was a black guy and threw hard sportswriters said he might be the next Bob Gibson or Fergie jenkins. (why are Dominicans always compared to Dominicans, blacks to blacks etc? Or maybe that's more of an observation than a question. I know the answer) Anyway, with all the injuries, he ended up being the next Scott Sanderson.

Submitted by tbone  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 5:28am  
By the way, Harkey hitting the first batter he faced in the head was not an example of his great stuff. He actually didn't pitch that great his first game.

Submitted by H. Vaughn  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 6:18am  
Quincy Carter and Matt Mauck?

Submitted by SaxFax  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 6:57am  
Excellent series of columns this week, Rob. Mike Harkey . . . proof that a great arm doesn't necessarily guarantee a great head. I'll never forget the sight of him sliding headfirst on the wet tarp.

Submitted by Ranch  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 7:19am  
Of course this is an exercise in hindsight, and there's nothing wrong with that. In this case, it's the best way to judge true success. But at draft time in '88 Ty Griffin looked like a great pick. He'd been a solid college player, and had great numbers in the Olympics. Still, Ventura became one of my favorite players ever, and had been one of the best college hitters ever. As for Gooden over Dunston, again true in hindsight. But I'm pretty sure that anyone who picked first in '82 would have taken Dunston, who had hit about .750 as a HS Senior.

Submitted by tbone  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 7:51am  
Saxfan, Maddux took some run and slides on wet tarp too.

Submitted by SaxFax  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 8:02am  
>Maddux took some run and slides on wet tarp too. Correct. But, in true Maddux fashion, he came out of that physical activity uninjured. Lunkhead Harkey couldn't say the same.

Submitted by Rob G.  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 8:14am  
This is all just for fun as I mentioned and as far as my young memory goes, Dunston was the consensus 1st pick that year. In the case of Griffin though, I do think the Cubs should have known better. Second basemen are RARELY chosen in the first round, there's Griffin, Chase Utley, Rickie Weeks and then..... well I'm sure there are a few but they are hard to find. Most of the better second basemen found in the draft were originally drafted as shortstops. Ventura was considered the greatest college hitter ever at the time and we all know the Cubs futility at that position over the years. Generally I advocate a pick the best player available strategy for the draft rather then trying to fill holes, but the Cubs did at the time have a certain Hall of Famer at second base and since Griffin was out of college, we're talking only 2-3 years before he SHOULD have been ready for major league duty. Were they thinking of moving Sandberg back to 3rd? If so, why not draft the accomplished third basemen and leave the Gold glover alone. Who knows what Frey and Co. were thinking at the time (How many times can you ask that question), but it's all fun to look at.

Submitted by Ienpw  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 8:15am  
Didnt the cubs draft Carlyle Holiday too? I could be mistaken.

Submitted by Rob G.  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 8:18am  
Quincy Carter and Matt Mauck? Unfortunately I had no idea who Matt Mauck is, so I missed him. But apparently he's with the Denver Broncos now and was drafted in 1997, playing a few years in the minors with the Cubs.

Submitted by SaxFax  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 8:27am  
The other one's gotta be Antwaan Randle El out of Thornton High.

Submitted by MikeC  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 8:33am  
Ouch, Dotel could miss 2 seasons with reconstructive elbow surgery.

Submitted by Ron Galt  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 9:15am  
OF ñ Manny Ramirez(1991/13th); Doug Glanville(1991/12th) Wow. That hurts.

Submitted by Chris  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 9:42am  
Mauck was the QB for LSU during their (shared?) championship season a couple years ago. He was already 24 or something at LSU because he played a bit of minor league baseball before going to LSU for football.

Submitted by Chad  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 10:39am  
Ty Griffin over Robin Ventura was a freaking joke. I'm sure they did that due to money. I'll bet they thought that Ventura would want too much of it. The Cubs needed a third baseman forever and Ventura was the Golden Spikes Award winner with a GREAT GLOVE at third. As far as Duntson was concerned, he may have been rated higher but it was still a mistake as Clemens was also highly rated and a pitcher. Shortstop? Not worth it.

Submitted by cubswinthepennant  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 11:27am  
You guys must be new Cub fans. Old fans don't enjoy wallowing in our past failures. We had to give that up to keep our sanity after the Lou Brock trade.

Submitted by 433  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 11:59am  
Derrek Lee on fire shall I write him a poem? Perhaps a haiku

Submitted by Mr. Whipple  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 12:20pm  
Derek Lee at bat Pitchers hit like Charlie Brown Clothes have gone flying

Submitted by Jiraiya  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 12:28pm  
The Triple-Crown King Derrek rules from on his throne Who's Albert Pujols?

Submitted by dc60164  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 12:57pm  
derek lee: mountain solid, silent, majestic man among the boys

Submitted by Cubs Dude  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 1:08pm  
derek lee, stoic like a dime store indian no offense is meant

Submitted by Ron Galt  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 1:27pm  
derrek lee, solid my plate, filled with crow daily still an '07 Yank

Submitted by Brick  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 2:21pm  
Oh, my dear Ron Galt. "Seven" has two syllables. Two syllables, dude!

Submitted by Brick  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 2:25pm  
(Lest I seem an ass: Only faux nitpickery Was in my last post.)

Submitted by Chad  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 2:33pm  
Can MVP LEE Make The Chad say, "Sammy who?" I highly doubt it

Submitted by Ienpw  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 3:11pm  
Corey Patterson Makes me cry for every K Trade trade him away I realy dont want to, I think thats correct form

Submitted by daniel  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 4:28pm  
d-lee! your bat is more deadly than the a-bomb. watch and learn, a-ram. corey has some Ks but he's hardly chopped liver. no more trade talk please. when you were two-five i doubt you could play like that. too much beer and beef.

Submitted by Ron Galt  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 5:25pm  
I thought something odd To the end of my spiel A heinous error :)

Submitted by Ron Galt  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 5:31pm  
The lineup is in Neifi gets leadoff honors Can he keep it up? Perez Walker Lee Burnitz Ramirez Hollandsworth K-Pax Barrett Mitre

Submitted by Kurtis  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 6:27pm  
Perez Walker Lee Burnitz Ramirez Holly C-Pat Barrett Serge

Submitted by dbt  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 7:16pm  
I'm tired of all the trade Corey talk. Who would you trade him for? What's the payoff? He's still a valuable part of the offense and stellar on defense.

Submitted by carmenfanzone  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 7:27pm  
Dunston had amazing raw tools. arm. speed. stick. He could hit any pitch. Problem was he tried to hit every pitch. The moral of the story: The Cubs never developed him to reach his potential. I know Moneyball says that plate discipline is not easily taught but players are trainable. The Braves draft high school players and teach the right way to play. When a player gets hurt the go down to their system and bring up a replacement. They just stick them in and let them sink or swim. The Cubs never do that. Corey Patterson is this generations' Shawon Dunston.

Submitted by Irregular Andrew  on Fri, 06/03/2005 - 8:55pm  
Corey has unfortunately become that spot in the lineup where I just cringe. I want him to succeed; we all do. But then he swings at junk outside and in the dirt, or at that pitch inside where there's a GAPING hole in his swing. And then he walks back to the dugout with that strained look on his face like, "Man! how'd I miss that?" Because you NEVER adjust, (K)orey, that's why. You're a strike machine, and pitchers know it. Pitchers say they sometimes pitch to guys "backwards" just to mess with their heads, or get them off-balance. I think Corey should start hitting "backwards" and see if it changes anything. At this point, anything would be an improvement. I agree, dbt, who would trade for him? Has there been any indication that he'd be willing to listen to someone else and change his approach? It doesn't appear so. So who would want to inherit that kind of headcase project? So frustrating for such an individual that has shown flashes of talent and potential.

Submitted by cubswinthepennant  on Sat, 06/04/2005 - 10:33am  
I sincerely believe that Corey Patterson was ruined by the influence Sammy Sosa had on him. Same goes for Aramis Ramirez who can be seen doing the Sosa homerun hop on deep fly balls. What value do you put on a number 6 hitter who projects to a 33 HR but only 64 RBI season.

Submitted by mannytrillo  on Sat, 06/04/2005 - 11:55am  
Just an FYI... From Cubs.com: "(Derek) Lee entered Friday's game against San Diego batting .389 (74-for-190). Rogers Hornsby holds the modern club record of .380, set in 1929. The last Cub with a .375 batting average or higher after 150 at-bats was Manny Trillo, who was hitting .378 on June 18, 1977." NICE!!!!!!!!!!!

Submitted by cubswinthepennant  on Sat, 06/04/2005 - 12:03pm  
Let's hope that Derrek Lee does better than Trillo did the rest of the season. Trillo batted .230 something and finished around .280 .

Submitted by John Hill  on Sat, 06/04/2005 - 1:43pm  
Brick-- "Oh, my dear Ron Galt. "Seven" has two syllables. Two syllables, dude!" Oh, my dearest Brick, "Seven" has two syllables, But "sev'n" has just one!

Submitted by Chad  on Sat, 06/04/2005 - 1:57pm  
sev'n may have one. But Sven probably has two! (rim shot)

Submitted by dc60164  on Sat, 06/04/2005 - 5:23pm  
What value do you put on a number 6 hitter who projects to a 33 HR but only 64 RBI season. impossible to say unless he hits in the 6 slot every day.

Submitted by Eric (paytonrules)  on Sat, 06/04/2005 - 5:45pm  
The last Cub with a .375 batting average or higher after 150 at-bats was Manny Trillo, who was hitting .378 on June 18, 1977." ..... Let's hope that Derrek Lee does better than Trillo did the rest of the season. Trillo batted .230 something and finished around .280 . ..... I was born August 18, 1977. I'm told Manny was distracted by my birth - despite his not knowing me and all. Sorry.

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  • Arizona Phil 1 hour 22 min ago (view)

    The fact hat the Cubs have not run him through waivers by now tells me the Cubs know Duane Underwood Jr is a lock to get claimed and so they are hoping to find a club that would be willing to give the Cubs something more than the $50,000 waiver price in return for Dunderwood (either more $$$ and/or a player). 

     
  • Arizona Phil 2 hours 3 min ago (view)

    Today's pitchers, most of them the same guys who threw last Tuesday: 

    Alec Mills:
    FB: 89-91 
    SL: 81 
    CH: 81-82 
    CV: 67-70 
    COMMENT: This just in: Mills heater now sitting at 91!!!!... had two easy innings and looked very good... threw only a handful of his "Bugs Bunny curves" but they are fun to watch because hitters don't know how to deal with it... ... 

    Craig Kimbrel: 
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  • Arizona Phil 2 hours 38 min ago (view)

    DJL: Jason Adam sustained a right elbow fracture a few years ago and missed two full seasons, and when he returned to action he started using a "short-arm" delivery. 

     
  • crunch 2 hours 38 min ago (view)

    baez "soft tissue injury"...no biggie...it's spring.  he'll be back in a day or 2.

     
  • crunch 4 hours 47 min ago (view)

    kimbrel...K, single, HBP, 3 more hits...inning called due to pitch count.  4 earned.

    also, baez removed after being HBP on the hand.

    neat.

     
  • First.Pitch.120 11 hours 8 sec ago (view)

    Cotton McKnight: In 23 years of broadcasting I thought I'd seen it all, folks. But it looks like Peter La Fleur has actually blindfolded himself.

    Pepper Brooks: He will not be able to see very well, Cotton. 

     
  • First.Pitch.120 11 hours 1 min ago (view)

    Yes! Exactly... I'd love to be able to watch coverages in football or just key-in on a great WR to watch them work.

     
  • First.Pitch.120 11 hours 4 min ago (view)

    Wow... this is the most engagement I have ever received on any topic on social media platform. Please stay tuned for my opinions on the Oxford Comma, the APA Style Manual for Academic Writing, and the auto-correct on my iPhone.  

    I am an awesome guy at parties.... 

     
  • bradsbeard 21 hours 28 min ago (view)

    I watched some of the Puerto Rican Winter League games that Miguel Amaya played in this winter. At least one broadcast had a super wide shot for balls in play that let you see the OF and the baserunners at the same time. It was awesome. 

     
  • Wrigley Rat 1 day 34 min ago (view)

    3 dots on this evening's Cubs-Dodgers game - makes sense & they do color in the 3rd dot as they're going to commericals (Spectrum Sportsnet).

     
  • crunch 1 day 2 hours ago (view)

    3 dot crew represent.  i didn't have an opinion, but now i'm 100% on board.

     
  • Charlie 1 day 2 hours ago (view)

    I agree on most of this, but I especially support three fillable dots for the outs--and fill in the third before cutting to a commercial!

    Not doing homework on the players in a Spring Training broadcast is pretty forgiveable, but ESPN is really bad about it pretty much all year. It would be nice if they made a habit of picking up a local color commentator and sort of interviewing them throughout games.

     
  • George Altman 1 day 6 hours ago (view)

    The single thing I want in a sports broadcast is to become smarter about the sport,  to learn something from the broadcast crew.

    Stone does that, Romo does that, Eddie O on hockey, and that's about it. I watch sporting events with the sound down very low or off. I forgot more about baseball than most broadcasters will ever know, and I'm always shocked when I see something in a football game that the crew doesn't,  and I know about NOTHING about football. 

     
  • First.Pitch.120 1 day 9 hours ago (view)

    Also... what is with only having 2 dots as the outs counter? I know that you don't really need the 3rd dot, but I find it counter-intuitive. If the dots fill in, then only having 2 throws me off b/c it's natural to subitize "3" associated with outs. You quickly see 0/3, 1/3, 2/3.  If the graphic does not have fill-in dots, then just put the #.  eg - OUTS: 1  It's minimalism for the sake of minimalism, not graphic design for effective communication.

     
  • crunch 1 day 9 hours ago (view)

    tight shots + insane amount of screen real estate being taken up with graphics is a bit of a plague...especially the ones with a non-stop bottom news ticker.

     
  • First.Pitch.120 1 day 10 hours ago (view)

    General comment on baseball broadcasting... I think that the color comentator (CC) needs to talk about 30% more & the PBP about 30% less. I would love a more stream of consciousness from the CC outlining what they would be looking for in a given situation. To that end, why not have 2 CC for national broadcasts - one a pitcher & one a position player. Would love for them to banter back & forth on micro strategy from their perspectives. I think this would turn the game's pauses between action into more of an asset.

     
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