Game 88 Thread / Cubs @ Cardinals (2 of 3)

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SP *Ted Lilly SP Kyle Lohse
  9-5, 4.56, 100 K, 38 BB, 106.2 IP
10-2, 3.67, 50 K, 26 BB, 105.1 IP
SS Ryan Theriot SS Brendan Ryan
RF *Kosuke Fukudome CF *Rick Ankiel
1B Derrek Lee 1B Albert Pujols
3B Aramis Ramirez 3B Troy Glaus
CF *Jim Edmonds RF Ryan Ludwick
C Geovany Soto C Yadier Molina
LF Mark DeRosa 2B *Adam Kennedy
2B *Mike Fontenot P Kyle Lohse
P *Ted Lilly LF *Skip Shumaker














That sure was a much needed win as the Cubs now are assured of going home in first place. Zambrano looked as good as ever and the bullpen, minus a forgivable home run to Albert Pujols, was lights out.

Lou had earlier mentioned wanting to go with two lefties this series as the Cardinals had only managed something-like four wins against southpaws. Their overall splits though don't bear out much of an advantage, a collective .772 OPS vs righties and .776 vs lefties. Lou might be outhinking himself on this one.


0 for last 27?! oops/ 0 for last 28. WTF?

Its called a slump. Ever heard of it? He also has a pretty big reason to have been, and to continue to be, distracted.

And a nice way to end the slump though, eh?

As if ARAM has EVER had a streak like that one. But, what do you care....

Now 1-29. :-)

Wow... one of the Google ads on the left currently says this:
Fukudome YOU T-Shirt Be cool.Get noticed.Salute the Jap. Dare U to wear this shirt in public
Seriously? "Salute the Jap?" Wow.

I suppose it's better than "Slap the Jap." Barely.

Soriano, Fukudome, Soto...if the NY Post is to be believed.

"Having two starting center fielders from Japan adds a new look to the All-Star Game."

HGH is more powerful than cybernetics.

Goddamnit. When will Woody understand that walks will kill you.

Hey, way to step on their necks. 1st and 3rd no outs off of Franklin, don't score any more runs. That's the key to the game there, in my opinion.

Tough tough loss. I thought we were home free after Marmol got through the heart of the order. Woody couldn't get the job done. Of course if Edmonds would have scored on the sac fly its maybe a different game. Great throw by Ludwick but it looks like Edmonds just assumed he would get in. Get em tomorrow!

The Cubs would have won if the 1st base umpire correctly called out Molina on the check swing, or if Pinhead had not drawn in the corners guarding against a bunt with runners on 1st and 2nd and no outs... but well, that's the breaks.

i think that's one of his "things". seen it a bit, anyway. yesterday he had aram protecting against the bunt with a guy on 1st and skip s. at bat (of all people to protect against). it was pretty early in the game and aram barely caught a jumping liner playing in on the grass. at least it worked out yesterday.

I always hate saying things like "the closer was due to blow one", but Wood did have an 0.96 ERA over the last month. He's been absolutely lights out lately. Can't have it everyday.

"Can't have it every day." I'm not sure Wood had it yesterday, when he tried to throw ball four twice to Troy Glaus leading off the ninth in a one-run game. The ump called two outside pitches strikes. If this is the way our closer performs in big games in St. Louis, that's good to know. Since Cotts and Marmol were already used, it would help if two bullpen spots weren't occupied by veterans Piniella would never bring in to pitch to Ankiel in that situation. I guess the Cubs will try to trade Wuertz and Eyre in the next three weeks. It can't be too soon.

Eyre's on the DL, dude. If that's who you were referring to by "veterans Piniella would never bring in to pitch to Ankiel". Also, apparently the opponent has some effect on the quality of pitches that a pitcher throws. Does that have more or less of an effect than the catcher? If the catcher increases fastballs by 4-5 mph, do the Cardinals cause 6 inches less break on a slider? More? Less? EDIT - Furthermore, Wood has previously made two scoreless appearances against the Cardinals this season. I fail to see how this denotes some developing pattern.

My point about Eyre is that Piniella doesn't like to use him when the game is on the line, so the Cubs are always short one lefty. Of Eyre's 18 appearances this year, the Cubs were behind in 10 of those games at the time he appeared. Of the 8 remaining, in 4 of them they were ahead by 2, 3, 7 and 9 runs when Eyre was brought in. Of the four still remaining, in one of them he came in in the 13th inning of a tie game (5/24). In another (6/10 vs. Atlanta), he came into a close game in the 8th inning (Cubs up 6-5), after Howry had just given up 2 runs, Marmol had pitched the inning before, and Wood was unavailable. Eyre pitched to one batter, then Lieber took over in the 9th. On 5/25, he faced 1 batter in the 8th against Pittsburgh, Cubs up 5-4, and earned a hold. Finally, 6/18 was the game against Tampa where Eyre came in and let 3 of Marmol's runners and 3 of his own score. So these are the contortions a manager has to go through to use a guy like Eyre, who is on the roster because Hendry was feeling flush in late 2005. If Piniella could pick his own players, the Cubs might have had a lefty to face Ankiel in the 9th inning Saturday.

"If Piniella could pick his own players, the Cubs might have had a lefty to face Ankiel in the 9th inning Saturday." that's some pretty open ended blind faith you got there in a guy in a hypothetical role he's never been in. besides, wood is the closer. if lou cared that much about the splits with 2 outs he'd bring in pretty much any lefty he's got cuz ankiel is pretty solidly a guy who feasts on righties and struggles against lefties with his power at the very least. and very few if any managers get to pick their own players...

cuz ankiel is pretty solidly a guy who feasts on righties and struggles against lefties with his power at the very least. Well... not that much, at least over his "career". Career splits: Against RHP: .262/.331/.496 OPS: .827 Against LHP: .261/.303/.490 OPS: .793 The only real difference is that he draws more walks against RHP. Though this year he has shown a much bigger splits between LHP and RHP, and it is mostly shown in his SLUG.

If Piniella could pick his own players, the Cubs might have had a lefty to face Ankiel in the 9th inning Saturday. Wait a minute. So which is it? Does Lou control the rosters? Or Hendry? Because yesterday you said Lou controlled the rosters, and now today you say that Lou can't pick his own players. You cannot have it both ways. Further... I don't think there is a manager/team in baseball who would have pulled Wood in that situation. Hell... I don't think there are many relief pitchers in baseball that I would trust more than Woody in that situation. BTW... Kerry Wood has an .596 OPS allowed against RH hitters this year. But sure... go ahead and blame yesterday's game on Hendry because Scott Eyre is on the DL.

except Lou would have never pulled Kerry in that situation....otherwise great fucking theory.


if Pinhead had not drawn in the corners guarding against a bunt with runners on 1st and 2nd and no outs Pinhead! Ha!! Mariotti, is that you? I know what we should all do.... call Ozzie Guillen the "Blizzard of Oz"!! "Blizzard of Oz"... get it? Funny shit! Nicknames rule!! High-fives and jagerbombs all around!!

Well it happens to the best of em and we all know Woody will bounce back strong. Nice to see Marmol get through fine. Let's take 'em tomorrow and make it look easy. No more of these nailbiters.

The simulator ESPN has give us a 82.6% odds of getting in the playoffs: in other good news to distract us from a bitter loss after tomorrow's game are next 12 are vs. sub 500 teams currently.

At least first place is safe (for now). If they get a win tomorrow (Earth to Wellemeyer: Come back to me!), they leave St. Louis in the condition I hoped they would. I hate it when the middle game of a series is a loss like this, but I like the idea of cutting Wood some slack and moving on.

Did anyone hear Paul Sullivan last night on WGN taking shots at Edmonds? Well, this is how he closed out his game recap today. I personally don't see anything wrong with Edmonds' comments, although it seems Sullivan is going out of his way to imply Edmonds doesn't give a shit about the loss. "Tough loss," Piniella said. But not as tough to some as it was to Piniella or Wood. "They're all tough, obviously," Edmonds said. "Good game. We just came up short. There's a long way to go. It's not the end of the world. We just have to come back [Sunday] and win the series. That's what it's all about."

sullivan has a history of bitching about edmonds...even lately while a cub it's not stopped. he uses some very strong/public language about him to almost anyone that will listen that he doesn't prefer edmonds. i don't think he likes edmonds the man or edmonds the player. this is the kind of crap that keeps blyleven out of the HOF...not that edmonds has much of a shot or anything...but the whole reporters getting personal with the "people they work with" while being the spokesman to the public about these people. sometimes it makes for some great stories, though. sure makes for some great books.

The raging alcoholic also ripped Edmonds during the broadcast on WGN last night, saying he was a big hot dog and was still standing at home plate watching his home run. What a tool, there's hardly anyone left with talent at the Trib's sports department anymore.

Sorry, forgot that his comments on the air last evening were already mentioned.

Stupid effing umps missing check swings. I'm am increasingly unamused by the umpires ineptitude. Stupid Cardinals acting like this win was a big deal. Stupid Cub pitching allowing 3 runs in the ninth freeking inning. Stupid Cub batting not scoring 15 runs today. Stupid humanity for creating the game of baseball.

It looks like the Brewers talk hit a snag because the Brewers do not want to include a second top level prospect in the deal in addition to Laporta. However the article for some reason does not mention the Cubs as a suitor.

Well that makes the Cubs even further out of the running. Maybe before the season Pie would be considered a top flight prospect, but the Indians already have Sizemore. The Cubs have 0 top level prospects, Gallagher might be the closest. If Hendry can get Sabathia it will be considered grand larceny.

At this point I'll take any Sabathia derby conclussion that is not Milwaukee. I hope Jimbo realizes he doesnt have the horses to make a CC deal and gets a Bedard or Burnett before then.

I think that the Cubs only chance for CC is to be the last team standing, like the Mets were in the Santana dealings. I just don't see that happening.

a bedard or burnett deal for cubs is a much better trade let some team unload 2 of there top three prospects bedard or burnett will cost less and be just as good. i have no problem with wood blowing it today if he converts 12 of 13 rest of year i am happy have fun at all star game kerry.

a bedard or burnett deal for cubs is a much better trade let some team unload 2 of there top three prospects bedard or burnett will cost less and be just as good. i have no problem with wood blowing it today if he converts 12 of 13 rest of year i am happy have fun at all star game kerry.

I'd actually prefer the Cubs go for some bullpen help. I mean, unless you get a guy like Sabathia who can dominate in the playoffs, any other starter is going to have minimal impact the rest of the way. If you trade for Burnett or Bedard in late July, they will get, what, about 10 starts the rest of the way? Even if they go 7-3, Gallagher or Marshall could probably go 5-5 or 6-4. For the price, it's a minimal upgrade. A couple of good bullpen arms, one from each side - Fuentes and a veteran righty maybe - could have a much bigger impact.

Well... first, I think they could go after both. Second, my bigger issue with the starting rotation is not getting to the playoffs, but winning when they are there. And an upgrade of Bedard would probably be an upgrade over the Cubs current #3/4 (Lilly/Gallagher?/Marquis?).

I'd be fine with both. I just don't want to put all of our "improvement" into a starting pitcher. I also think we need to think about what will get to the playoffs, vs. just assuming we already there. It's likely to be a close race between the three teams the entire way. Also, I just don't think Bedard is much of an upgrade, if any, over Lilly. Their statlines are similar, and Bedard has been injured more, and has pitched for last place teams his entire career. If you are looking for a pitcher to help in the playoffs, I would look for one with playoff experience. From a recent article by Jason Stark: "The last two starting pitchers acquired at midseason to win a World Series game were Jeff Weaver (picked off the scrap heap), for the 2006 Cardinals, and Mike Torrez (a relic of another era), for the 1977 Yankees. And the last two pitchers traded on Deadline Day (July 31) to win any kind of postseason game were Oliver Perez (a reclamation-project throw-in), for the 2006 Mets, and David Weathers (as a set-up reliever), for the 1996 Yankees."

A couple of good bullpen arms, one from each side - Fuentes and a veteran righty maybe - could have a much bigger impact. I agree. If Hendry could get us Fuentes and a guy like Weathers, I think we would be set up very well. Bedard is intriguing, but you know the Mariners' asking price will be outrageous so they can save face on their winter deal. Relying on Harden would take us back to the days of hoping Wood/Prior can stay healthy. I want to like the Burnett option, but given how many times he has completely blown up over the last month (3 starts of 6+ earned runs), I'm not convinced the upgrade he will provide is nearly worth his price. Where does that leave us? I say bolster the pen and add a right-handed pinch hitter off the bench (Aurilia?). It's a damn shame something can't be worked out with the Tribe for C.C. He would have been nice.

speaking of Fuentes, Rotoworld says Rays are going to make a run at him. They certainly have more to offer than the Cubs.

A strong starter who can go 7.0 IS BULLPEN HELP!

Bedard has gone 7 innings in FOUR starts all season.

I'm not sure what that has to do with strong starters helping your bullpen. Every inning pitched by an SP is an inning you get to rest the pen.

Read what you just said. You said a strong starter who goes 7 innings will help the bullpen. I replied by saying that Bedard, by your definition, would probably not be considered a strong starter since he rarely goes 7 innings in a start. If your contention is that we simply need innings pitched by our starters to help our bullpen, I'm arguing that Bedard will not give us many, if any, more innings pitched than one of the other starters we already have on the roster. This isn't rocket science.

with Z/lilly/dumpster setting themselves up to be a solid playoff core option i dunno how seriously all this starter-stuff will play out, myself. cubs/CC seem off the table...harden/cubs seem to be mostly in the fan's heads... i like burnett, myself, but is he good enough to knock dumpster out of that playoff core? marquis/gallagher/marshall/loober...and as much as i hate to mention his name...angel guzman could be in the picture late this season...and there's that rich hill guy, too, but let's not go there right now.

lidge just got a 3yr/37.5m extension yes...lidge is "worth" 12.5m a year. kerry'll be missed. finish up solid, dude.

I personally think new ownership will pony up to keep Wood simply because they (whoever "they" end up being) won't want to take the PR hit with the fanbase. Obviously nothing more than pure speculation though.

yeah, its speculation on my part that they wont pony up the loot. cubs fans will give kerry wood a standing O for picking his nose it seems...especially early in the year. still...with the payroll load of 09/10 can the cubs add it? ...and at what point does spending "too much" become an issue of the cubs being another heartless yanks/bos organization where the wallet attempts to win it all? i know some don't care, but i'd find it hard to take seriously 162 games of a team designed via checkbook to stomp on teams with 1/2-1/3rd the payroll. wonder if DET wishes it hadnt opened up the pocketbook while emptying out their system...

I, for one, couldn't care less how much money the Cubs spend if it brings home a championship...

NL Starters: C Soto, 1b Berkman, 2b Utley, SS Hanram, 3b Jones OF Soriano, Griffey Fukudome NL Players vote: C Martin, 1b Pujols, 2b Uggla, SS Tejada, OF Braun, Burrell, Holliday Other postion players: C McCann, 1b Gonzalez, 3b Wright, OF Ludwick and Mclouth NL pitchers Webb, Lincecum, Volquez, Cook, Hamels, Zambrano, Wood, Valverde, Lidge, Rauch NL Final vote options Billingsley, Dempster, Haren, Sanchez, Santana AL Starters: C Mauer, 1b Youklis, 2b Pedroia, SS Jeter, 3b Rodriguez, OF Manram, Hamilton, Ichiro, DH Bradley (Ortiz injury fill-in) AL player's vote: C Varitek, 1b Morneau, 2b Kinsler, SS Young, 3b Longoria, OF Dye, Sizemore, Damon, Drew (injury fill-in for Matsui as DH) AL other postion players: C Navarro, 1b Giambi, OF Quentin AL pitchers: Lee, Saunders, Halladay, Kazmir, Duchscherer, Mussina, Rodriguez, Rivera, Sherill, Soria AL final vote choices: Floyd, Harden, Lester, Papelbon, Sheilds

Griffey out and Braun in.

SEVEN Cubs All-Stars: Wood, Zambrano, Dempster, Soto, Soriano, Fukodome, Ramirez This is the most ever in Cubs history. In 1988 and in 1936 the Cubs had 6 players on the All-Star team.

Well at least we know the Cubs will have a big chance to get the home field advantage for the NL.

Wood will be rewarded by the organization for his loyalty. But i guess giving him the money will just make us another heartless organization? Okkkk. It's about time the Cubs started using their resources to get the best talent and keep the best talent. For decades the Cubs have been the cash cow for anyone that owns them. Put a mediocre product on the field, enjoy the profits. That is what i call heartless. This organization, this fan base deserves atleast a decade of dominace and a few WS titles, and if it takes opening up the pocket book to achieve it, they better damn well do it. Because the last 100 years of trying to win on a budget sure worked out really well for us. Besides we can't draft players worth a damn, most of our best talent has come from salary dumps from other teams and high priced free agent pick-ups.

"Wood will be rewarded by the organization for his loyalty. But i guess giving him the money will just make us another heartless organization? Okkkk." no giving a guy 12m to pitch 60-80 innings would be retarded, not heartless, but nonetheless 12m isnt going to make this team a money hole. 130m would be getting close, though. ...and he is going to be rewarded? really. didn't know that extension was on the table. thanks for the scoop. moving on to the real issue you're trying to get across...that you don't care if they spend a ton of money as long as they win. fine. got it.

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  • crunch 7 hours 53 min ago (view)

    i can't believe this kind of stuff is what we're talking about 2 months into the 2020 season...i can't believe a lot of stuff about 2020 outside of the game, too.


  • crunch 12 hours 12 min ago (view)

    contract rights are retained by the team.

    in normal times this keeps labor relations between employer and player not too volitile with only a handful of player/owner issues.  in times like this you see a system that was not designed for an event like this.

    some owners are being responsible over the players who's contracts they control while other owners make us realize why the guillotine was occsasionally popular during revoltutions/revolts.


  • Jackstraw 12 hours 39 min ago (view)

    So they are all free agents?  Or still under contract and not getting paid?  I'm sure AZ Phil or someone else has covered this but I haven't been keeping up with all the fine points of baseball's problems recently.


  • Dolorous Jon Lester 15 hours 12 min ago (view)

    Manfred is such a dreadful commissioner. It's his job to walk a fine line and maintain peace in labor relations. Instead he lets the owners do whatever they want.

    Cannot wait for a long, bitter strike after 2021. And for the owners to ultimately turn plenty of fan sentiment against players.


  • crunch 1 day 7 hours ago (view)

    "The A's told their minor leaguers Tuesday that they will not continue to pay them their current salary of $400 per week beyond May 31."

    classy.  absolute class act stuff right there.


  • crunch 1 day 9 hours ago (view)

    Evan Drellich @EvanDrellich
    The MLBPA is very disappointed with MLB’s economic proposal today, source tells me and @Ken_Rosenthal, calling additional cuts proposed “massive." League offered to share more playoff revenue, but on balance, those dollars are small compared to what players give up, PA believes.


  • crunch 1 day 11 hours ago (view)

    A's are furloughing nearly all of their staff through the entire organization...including scouts, which make a shockingly low amount of money.

    the A's are owned by a multi-billionaire who inherited his loot from dad (founder of The Gap)...and him + family spent $10m trying to keep Obama from getting a 2nd term, which i assume is their idea of a good investment in their community...whereas paying loyal employees for years/decades for a few months is...well...*shrug*


  • Ryno 1 day 18 hours ago (view)

    Depends on who you are.


  • Ryno 1 day 18 hours ago (view)

    Sorry--Just needed to experience a little normalcy.


  • Ryno 1 day 18 hours ago (view)

    That was the dumbest lineup I've ever seen.


  • Hagsag 1 day 21 hours ago (view)



  • Cubster 2 days 15 hours ago (view)

    speaking of Trump's trained rats...


  • Hagsag 2 days 21 hours ago (view)

    Cubster, your comments about President Bone Spurs could not be more accurate. Thanks for posting!


  • BobbyD 3 days 9 hours ago (view)

    Cubster: I agree with your comments, save one. That the president is "leading" America. He couldn't lead a pack of rats to a NYC dumpster on an August afternoon. The "man" is a f'ing disgrace. 


  • crunch 3 days 11 hours ago (view)

    though the team cheaped out on this offseason (still an overall top-tier payroll), i was at least looking forward to seeing the beginning of the david ross era...and who was going to win the 2nd base job...

    nothing about 2020 baseball feels legit anymore.  just hearing the players talk about it, you'd think they were organizing a casual pickup game for charity at an inconvient time and place...doesn't seem like they're really stoked about it.


  • Cubster 3 days 12 hours ago (view)

    June 1st is a week from tomorrow. Given 5 weeks of spring training before starting (July 4th?), the season is on the brink of going bye-bye. It's bad enough in 2020 to be losing prime career years for Javy Baez and Kris Bryant, let alone Anthony Rizzo, Kyle Schwarber, Kyle Hendricks, and Willson Contreras. If one of them gets coronavirus, loses lung capacity, and alters their career arc, Cub fans will for a long time have a bitter taste in their mouths. All for, at best,  a bizarre half-season without fans watching in the ballparks.