Game 119 Thread / Cubs @ Braves (1 of 3)

Submitted by Rob G. on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 5:31pm

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SP Jason Marquis SP Charlie Morton

7-7, 4.73, 67 K, 47 BB, 123.2 IP
3-5, 5.70, 32 K, 22 BB, 53.2 IP
       
LF Alfonso Soriano RF *Gregor Blanco
RF *Kosuke Fukudome SS Yunel Escobar
1B Derrek Lee 3B #Chipper Jones
3B Aramis Ramirez C #Brian McCann
CF *Jim Edmonds 1B *Casey Kotchmann
2B Mark DeRosa LF Omar Infante
C Geovany Soto CF *Mark Kotsay
SS  Ryan Theriot 2B *Kelly Johnson
P *Jason Marquis P Charlie Morton

 

UPDATED UPDATE: Marquis will start the first game in today's day/night doubleheader with our man Harden going in the nightcap. Otherwise the lineup remains unchanged from last evening.

UPDATE: Nevermind, the game has been called.

The Cubs try to stay North of the standings as they head South to play the Braves and Marlins on a six game road trip. Fresh off a 6-3 homestand, where they managed to lose a game and a half in the standings, the Cubs will look for their sixth straight road win tonight. 

The start goes to Rich Harden, who will look to rebound from his first non-amazing Cub start against the Astros last week. This will be his second start at Atlanta this season, Do it again! Do it again!

And no, I have no idea why Kosuke Fukudome is batting second tonight. It's certainly not because of the .227/.306/.360 line he's put up since the All-Star break.

Tags: 
Gameday Open Thread
Rich Harden

Comments

Submitted by Raisin101  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 5:47pm  
This game probably doesn't happen due to the rain.

Submitted by Rob G.  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 5:55pm  

wow, look at that...

http://weather.yahoo.com/forecast/USGA0028_f....

Submitted by Chad  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 6:04pm  
double header tomorrow? yikes.

Submitted by Rob G.  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 6:06pm  
they might wait until Thursday, looks like it'll still be raining through tomorrow morning at least.

Submitted by crunch  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 6:09pm  
blah.

Submitted by blockhead25  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 6:09pm  
gameday says the game is postponed. cubs.com doesn't say anything yet. Cubs can afford a DH this week....better now then September like the last few years.

Submitted by Chifan  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 6:10pm  
first game at noon second one at the time it was suppose to start tomorrow.

Submitted by Rob G.  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 6:13pm  
wonder what that'll do to the rotation, they do have an off-day on Monday, but they'll need somebody for Sunday's game. I suppose Sean Marshall.

Submitted by Chifan  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 12:13am  
With Marquis being a "sinker-ball" (too bad his pitches dont) pitcher starting on 3-days rest should be a good thing as sinker-ballers tend to pitch best on 3-days rest. If they do go outside the rotation for a starter do wonder if they'll go with Marshall since if they do they would be 1 man down in the pen for 3 days until Marshall recouped from the spot start, of course, they could always DL Ward before the game on Sunday and recall a RP and go with 13 pitchers until Marshall is ready to pitch in relief again. I think they will play it by ear with Marshall being penciled in unless they need a long guy between Thursday and Saturday then you likely see Marquis on 3-days rest or a minor leaguer like Atkins, Rusell, or Veal if it happens to be close to their turns on the farm. (EDIT): After looking at the I-Cubs and Smokies wesites only 2 starters are posting sub 4 ERA's at those levels and they are Mitch Atkins and Randy Wells. Atkins next start is on Thursday V. NO and Wells threw tonight so his next start would be Sunday aganist the Zephyers. I am sure AZ Phil would know for sure, but I dont think Atkins is eligable for either Free agency or the Rule V draft while Wells is, so it would be more likely Wells will get the call-up, if they decide to go that route for the start, since he will be put on the 40-man by the November deadline anyway and that his turn falls in line with the opening we have for a spot start.

Submitted by Rob G.  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 2:14am  

I don't know how Lieber's progressing these days, but it's more likely that Marshall, Lieber or Samardzija get that start before Atkins or Randy Wells does.

If the bullpen needs reinforcements you start Marshall and send him down and call up Wuertz or Ascanio or whichever reliever isn't sucking in Iowa right now.

Submitted by Dr. aaron b  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 11:27am  
Wells should absolutely be added to the 40 man at season's end. We can call him up to pitch. Send him back down the next day. Recall him before September 3rd. And he will still have 3 options as of spring training next year.

Submitted by blockhead25  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 6:17pm  
Did Pitchers warm up at all?

Submitted by crunch  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 6:29pm  
"pregame show" came on the air with the tarp already on the field and len/bob giving a real quick...hi, bye, 12pm central doubleheader tomorrow...blah blah blah looks like any work they did was earlier in the day. the tarp on the field didn't have any grounds crew around it...it had been there a while.

Submitted by Raisin101  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 6:34pm  
Marquis starts game one, Harden game two tomorrow.

Submitted by Hobart Mike  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 6:45pm  
Bummer. Was looking forward to the WGN telecast. Hope tomorrow's is on WGN ... probably not.

Submitted by Raisin101  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 7:01pm  
Game one will be on the Superstation. Disappointing for me out in LA since I could have seen today's game after work. No way I can watch a 10 am PT game.

Submitted by Rob G.  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 6:47pm  
or they just set up a pitching machine? Rsox score 10 in the first, 2 hr's by Ortiz and 6 RBI's. Looks like a crucial error as Feldman got charged with only 4 earned.

Submitted by crunch  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 8:11pm  
10-12 tex/bos, top 5th... uuuugly.

Submitted by crunch  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 8:43pm  
middle 6...tex takes the lead 15-14

Submitted by crunch  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 10:11pm  
rsox up 19-16 going into the 9th... -edit- rsox win...19-17 37 hits, 13bb, 4 errors... truely a game to forget.

Submitted by blockhead25  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 8:11pm  
I still hate that scoring standard. If a pitcher gets shelled and gives up 6 runs after an error, that means the pitcher sucked. If he didn't face those guys after the error, he would have faced them the next inning. I've always felt that an error should wipe out the batter and all runners on base...but anyone following the error who gets on base, and comes around to score, should count as earned runs.

Submitted by The Real Neal  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 3:51am  
I used to think the same thing, but the longer a pitcher is out there, the more tired he gets. There's no way to really predict what would happen had the error not occured, but often times the pitcher may have been able to get out of those situations with less damage.

Submitted by Old and Blue  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 8:58pm  
Kosuke: "Let's play 2!"

Submitted by Indiana JJ  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 10:41pm  
3 out of 6 days with no game sucks donkey balls. I'm watching fucking gymnastics for Christ's sake.

Submitted by Hawkeye  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 11:29pm  
No. You wanna know what sucks donkey balls? Try driving from Birmingham, AL to Atlanta and finding out that the game was called after being in Atlanta for an hour. That sucks donkey balls. Eddie Murphy's balls are very happy right now.

Submitted by crunch  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 12:54am  
bleh.

Submitted by navigator  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 11:51pm  
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3...

Submitted by Rob G.  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 11:59pm  
almost every player on the 40-man is usually put on waivers after August 1st...

Submitted by Chad  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 1:55am  
Would we want him anyway? Having a horrible year.

Submitted by The Real Neal  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 3:56am  
I could see the dellusion-wrapped Astros getting him to replace Lee, but Detroit would have to cough up some cash for that '09 salary.

Submitted by blockhead25  on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 11:59pm  
eeks, sorry hawkeye. Brewers win 7th straight. Another dominating pitching performance by their back line starters...with CC and Sheets on the mound the next two nights. Cubs need to keep on winning, or this will turn around in a hurry.

Submitted by ultrapeanut  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 4:02am  
I'm just glad they're our bitches.

Submitted by Ryno  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 8:56am  
St. Louis Cardinals, 3rd place, 7.0 games back... with their current record they would easily lead any of the other NL divisions. How do you like them apples?

Submitted by Rob G.  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 12:00am  
n/t

Submitted by big_lowitzki  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 9:24am  
Question from AZ Phil or anyone else who may know... An Arizona newspaper is reporting that Micah Owings is one of the PTBNL in the Dunn deal. Isn't this impossible? I thought that a PTBNL must change leagues (or not be on the 40-man roster). Any ideas on how this works if it is a waiver issue? From what I have heard, Owings was claimed on waivers, though by a team worse than the Reds. UDPATE: Oh wait... he is in the minors, but he is also still on the 40 man roster.

Submitted by billybucks  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 11:02am  
Interesting trade: - Owings can hit better than Dunn (.288 BA vs. .234 BA) - Dunn can probably pitch better than Owings (5.93 ERA)

Submitted by big_lowitzki  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 11:32am  
- Owings can hit better than Dunn (.288 BA vs. .234 BA) Owings: .288/.351/.385 OPS+: 90 Dunn: .234/.375/.529 OPS+:132 But yea... Dunn may pitch better. And maybe Cinci is thinking about turning him into an OF, not that they don't have any.

Submitted by Ryno  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 11:46am  
I think that was a tongue-in-cheek comment, but okay.

Submitted by billybucks  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 12:56pm  
Yup -- just having a laugh.

Submitted by Dr. aaron b  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 11:24am  
Owings had been sent to AAA. So he did change leagues. A PTBNL can be on the 40 man. He just has to change leagues. AL - NL AAA - NL or AL

Submitted by mattralph  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 1:06pm  
Jimmy Edmonds hits another one. Hopefully the runs keep coming so Lou can rest some of the starters for game 2.

Submitted by Rob Richardson  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 1:09pm  
I like Jim Edmonds

Submitted by Ryno  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 2:54pm  
Who doesn't. * I always did kind of liked him. Ryno * By "always" I mean I never liked him at all. In fact I thought he was kind of a douche, but if he wants to hit home runs for the Cubs and be awesome this year, I can be a Jim Edmonds fan.

Submitted by mattralph  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 1:18pm  
Why didn't Soto's fly-out to right field score DeRosa? Was it a shallow fly?

Submitted by navigator  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 3:47pm  
Michael Barrett's best year 55R 16HR 65RBI Geovany Soto's rookie year so far... 47R 18HR 67RBI

Submitted by The Real Neal  on Thu, 08/14/2008 - 2:24am  
I heard once there's a difference playing for a team that leagues the league in OBP or a team that is 2nd to last. Can anyone confirm?

Submitted by Chad  on Thu, 08/14/2008 - 2:04pm  
home runs are not team dependent. And you can say all you want about team OBP, but really it times at bat with runners on that is more important. Just because Barrett played on a low obp team doesn't mean, necessarily, that he had less chances.

Submitted by Rob G.  on Thu, 08/14/2008 - 3:03pm  

uh what?

anyway, you can look it up on BR.com if you wish.

Soto has come to bat with 328 men on base this season (at the 120 game mark). The ML average at this point is 275 for a hitter.

Barrett came up in 2004 with 314 men on base for the whole season. The ML average for the season was 318 for a hitter.

Soto had 56 of his RBI's in the first half where he spent the bulk of it hitting behind Lee, Ramirez and Fukudome. Their first-half OBP: .372, .386 and .383 respecitvely.

 

Submitted by big_lowitzki  on Thu, 08/14/2008 - 3:29pm  
Well... it isn't too hard to figure out, is it? Lets take a look. Barrett, 2004, RISP: 128 PAs Soto, 2008, RISP: 141 PAs So yea... it looks like Neal's point is right on in terms of RBI. Runs would also be very team dependent. Cubs, 2004: .268/.328/.458 OPS+: 105 Cubs, 2008: .281/.357/.447 OPS+: 112

Submitted by The Real Neal  on Thu, 08/14/2008 - 5:23pm  
I was actually thinking of 2006 when Barrett drove in 37 of a possible 261 runners, for 14.2% He drove in 15.6% in 2004. Soto this year has driven in 49 of 333 runners, for 14.7%

Submitted by sachmet  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 1:47pm  
Where's Ron Santo today?

Submitted by 10man  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 2:35pm  
He's taking a rest. So he didn't go on the road trip.

Submitted by mattralph  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 1:54pm  
What did Bobby do to get ejected this time?

Submitted by Rob G.  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 2:00pm  

he hit the ump's wife?

/I'll show myself out 

Submitted by Hawkeye  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 3:49pm  
She just wouldn't listen. What? Rob started it...

Submitted by billybucks  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 3:15pm  
According to Yahoo, Cox was ejected for "arguing a delay in the game involving the lights". Bobby: "I said BUD light, dammit!"

Submitted by Ryno  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 3:17pm  
for "arguing a delay in the game involving the lights" ...sigh

Submitted by nohit  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 4:13pm  
Remember back when Jim Edmonds joined the Cubs? We were all so happy and welcomed him with open arms. And then we all went out for ice cream...

Submitted by ultrapeanut  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 4:26pm  
I know I really showed great judgment when I said of the move, and I quote, "UUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH." That was an uuuuuuuuuugggghhhh of excitement and anticipation.

Submitted by Chad  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 5:30pm  
i remember quite clearly welcoming him the entire time.

Submitted by Tito  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 5:36pm  
That's because you wanted to frost his tips.

Submitted by Jeff_Pico  on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 6:08pm  
For the record I had a 'nothing to lose' attitude about Edmonds. Its probably been Hendry's 2nd biggest move after the Ramirez trade. Jury still out on the Harden trade, but that could definitely be right up there.

Submitted by The Real Neal  on Thu, 08/14/2008 - 2:27am  
Karros and Grudzillanek trade Lee trade Dempster Signing DeRosa Signing Lilly Signing Garciparra trade

Submitted by Arizona Phil  on Thu, 08/14/2008 - 10:17am  

Submitted by Chifan on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 11:13pm.

I am sure AZ Phil would know for sure, but I dont think Atkins is eligable for either Free agency or the Rule V draft while Wells is, so it would be more likely Wells will get the call-up, if they decide to go that route for the start, since he will be put on the 40-man by the November deadline anyway and that his turn falls in line with the opening we have for a spot start.

===================================

CHIFAN: Mitch Atkins is (first time) eligible for selection in the December 2008 Rule 5 Draft, and while he is a lock to get added to the 40-man roster, I suspect he won't be added until sometime around the November 20th deadline, when more roster slots are available after guys like Howry, Ward, Lieber, et al have filed for free-agency.

Submitted by Arizona Phil  on Thu, 08/14/2008 - 10:24am  

Submitted by Dr. aaron b on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 10:27am.

Wells should absolutely be added to the 40 man at season's end. We can call him up to pitch. Send him back down the next day. Recall him before September 3rd. And he will still have 3 options as of spring training next year.

========================================

DR AARON B: Randy Wells is a lock to be added to the 40-man roster post-2008, so it certainly would not be a problem to bring him up immediately if there is a need for his services.

As you said, even if he was recalled today and optioned back to Iowa tomorrow, he would not use up an option if he is recalled before he spends 20 days back at AAA.

It's probably 50-50 right now whether Wells will be added to the Cubs MLB active roster in September, but he will need to be added to the 40 no later than the day after the World Series because he is eligible to be a minor league FA post-2008.  

Submitted by Arizona Phil  on Thu, 08/14/2008 - 10:50am  

Submitted by big_lowitzki on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 8:24am.

Question from AZ Phil or anyone else who may know... An Arizona newspaper is reporting that Micah Owings is one of the PTBNL in the Dunn deal. Isn't this impossible? I thought that a PTBNL must change leagues (or not be on the 40-man roster).

Any ideas on how this works if it is a waiver issue? From what I have heard, Owings was claimed on waivers, though by a team worse than the Reds.

======================================

BIG LO: Any player on a minor league roster at the time a trade is made (including any player on a 40-man roster who is on optional assignment to the minors) is eligible to be a PTBNL. And any player who is on an MLB or minor league DL at the time a deal is announced has to be a PTBNL until he is eligible to be reactivated from the DL.

Any player on a minor league roster who is not on optional assignment off the 40-man roster (as was the case with Dallas Buck) does NOT have to clear waivers before he can change organizations, but because Micah Owings is on the Diamondbacks 40-man roster, he would have to clear waivers before he can be sent to the Reds.

So if Owings is indeed one of the players the D'backs are supposed to send to Cincinnati for Adam Dunn (and it appears that he is), and if Owings was in fact claimed by an N. L. club with a lower winning percentage than CIN, that just means the Reds will have to wait until the day after the conclusion of the regular season before they can acquire him from AZ. BTW, the other PTBNL in the Dunn deal could very well be another player on the D'backs 40-man roster on optional assignment to the minors who can't clear waivers (possibly catcher Wilkin Castillo).

In the meantime, it's kind of awkward because Owings remains at Tucson under control of the Diamondbacks. Of course it will REALLY be awkward if Owings suffers a significant elbow or shoulder injury between now and the end of the regular season. If that were to happen, it's possible that the Reds would ask for a replacement PTBNL, and that could get a bit complicated. .

Submitted by Dr. aaron b  on Thu, 08/14/2008 - 12:56pm  
AZ Phil, Since Justin Upton is currently on the DL right now. He is a possibility as a PTBNL going to Cincy?

Submitted by Arizona Phil  on Fri, 08/15/2008 - 3:48pm  

Submitted by Dr. aaron b on Thu, 08/14/2008 - 11:56am.

AZ Phil, Since Justin Upton is currently on the DL right now. He is a possibility as a PTBNL going to Cincy?

=========================

DR AARON B: Yes. 

A PTBNL cannot be on an MLB 25-man roster when a trade is made, and he cannot play for his "old" team again at the major league level after the deal is made, either.

So if Micah Owings is (as expected) a PTBNL in the Adam Dunn deal, he has to stay in the minors (on optional assignment) until he gets moved. He can't play for the Diamondbacks in September while the D'backs and Reds are waiting for the end of the regular season.  

And if Justin Upton is a PTBNL in the Dunn deal, he has to either remain on the AZ DL until he can clear waivers, or remain on the AZ DL through to the end of the season. I guess the D'backs could send him to the minors on optional assignment until he is officially transferred to CIN, but he can't play in the big leagues with his old team after he is reactivated from the DL and then still be eligible to be a PTBNL in a deal that was made while he was on the DL.  .

Submitted by The Real Neal  on Sat, 08/16/2008 - 1:44pm  
Interesting, but I would be totally shocked if Upton was a PTBNL.