Game 68 Thread - T. Wood vs. Peavy

The Cubs set did something odd yesterday other than the obvious win. They managed 5 HR's but no other XBH's and apparently In other rare statistical oddities, Soriano is the franchise leader at home runs and RBI's for a designated hitter with 4 and 10.

White Sox
*De Aza, CF
*DeJesus, CF
Beckham, 2B
Castro, SS
*Dunn, DH
*LaHair, RF
Konerko, 1B
Soriano, DH
Rios, RF
*Clevenger, 1B
Viciedo, LF
Barney, 2B
Ramirez, SS
*Valbuena, 3B
Flowers, C
Soto, C
#Hudson, 3B
*Campana, LF

Go Cubs Go!


Az Phil---Rookie league starts tomorrow. Who is showing up in AZ? Thanks

Midwest League All-Star Game Hoilman starting, DeVoss and R. Lopez on the team (I think Lopez is injured though). On the pitching side, Kyler Burke went 0.2 IP, 5 ER, 3 BB, 0 K, Goldstein is at the game and said he sat at 89 mph. Cubs in on another Cuban pitcher, 23 year old Armando Rivera.

Southern league HR derby, Justin Bour loses in finals to Joe Dunigan.

lahair isn't very fast...

forgot how bad cb bucknor is

wood is getting squeezed hard.... *snicker*

The Jesus!!!

Awesome play by Castro on a pop-up. Tough play, back to the infield and had to twist to grab it, pops out of his glove but snags it with his barehand at full speed.

If I twisted my body around like that, I'd be in the hospital for a month.

Ichiro with 2500 hits, wonder if he'd break Rose's record if he started in the States?

Probably. If he stayed healthy, etc. Just roughly: He averaged 231 hits a year for his 27-28-29-30 year-old seasons. So if you give him 231 for his 26, 25, 24, 23, 22, 21, 20 year-old seasons that puts him at 4,117 right now. That may not be realistic, but even giving him 4-5 years of 200+ hits prior to when he started in the majors would easily put him above Aaron for 3rd and sniffing 4K and at that point he would be close enough that you would assume he would stay around and teams would keep employing him to beat Cobb and Rose. Ichiro is certainly falling off quickly though. Last year he hit .272 with a .645 OPS. Right now he is sitting at .255 with a .645 OPS. At least last year he still swiped 40 bags. Right now he has only 9 and on pace for just over 20.

On another note, Jeter is just 7 hits away from Ripken and will probably end up passing Mays (11th at 3283) by the end of the season barring injury. Then let's say he puts up 3 more 170 hit seasons, which I don't think is out of the question at all. He'd then pass Cap Anson and be 6th next year, pass Tris Speaker in 2014, then pass Musial and Aaron in 2015 for 3rd place. But it would be about another 400 hits before Cobb, and another 50 or so to Rose. So I would guess he ends up finishing his career in 3rd place around 3,800 hits.

The DH rule will give him a tremendous advantage in his pursuit.

other than that horrible wind-aided start vs. the Padres, Wood has been quite decent. Walks too many, but keeps you in games...4th/5th starter material for certain.

he had a better day with control than the numbers showed with the small zone he was allocated today he's pitching ordinarily steady ball so far...need guys like that, though

marmol vs. a 1 run lead...

...cubs win.

Josh Vitters hit his 10th HR of the season in a 3-6 loss to Round Rock. 1-5, .280 Rod Lopez taking up dead space in the Iowa Rotaton. Similarly Blake DeWitt is doing the same at 2B. Rizzo 1-5, single; .360 BJax 1-4 with 1 BB and 2K; .261

We're only 10 games behind StL Unfortunately we're in an exact tie with the Padres and sadly they are losing to Texas 3-1 in the 5th and we just knocked the WSux out of 1st place with the Tigers only 1.5 games behind them. Can't beat listening to chicago sports talk with whiney (winey, with red noses) Sox fans calling in all night. Tim depicts the moment he heard that Dempster was going on the DL

"I don't mean any disrespect, but a team playing the way the Cubs have been playing, we have to beat those teams," said Peavy, who had won his previous five starts against them.

and team like yours is starting to come back to where they belong /mercy

I would agree with Peavy's assessment.

As would I

That's about the must respectful way you could possibly put it. Props to nicely addressing their shittiness. Soriano trade talk w/o offering if anyone has even asked about him yet. So is it finally time to get over the $136 million contract that has made Soriano a lightning rod among Wrigley Field fans for more than five seasons? Teammates have been especially outspoken about the way fans continue to look at Soriano, who is as respected and popular a player as they have in the clubhouse. That has been especially true with the way he noticeably has improved his defense this season despite dealing with an injury to his left knee. maybe if he didn't suck so bad at the defense the last 2 years, everyone would be a little more forgiving.

you are be forgiving for saying he's been bad in left for only the last 2 years.

This is why I'm frustrated with Soriano. If he cares about the game and winning so much, why didn't he start trying to improve himself on defense when he was first moved to LF? Why did we have to sit for multiple years and watch him fumble around in the outfield and not care about how he defended out there, when everyone has known it was a major weakness? I like Soriano as a clubhouse leader and occasionally as a hitter, but it just boggles my mind that he has just now decided to start trying to improve himself in the field.

Was it that he didn't care, though? Maybe he tried and the light just wasn't going on. I really have no idea, just throwing it out there.

he's not coachable, from defense to finally changing his bat size this year when it should have been done three years ago.

Have you tried coaching him? From all appearances, everyone that interacts with Soriano loves him. I've never heard a coach say, or even imply, that Soriano isn't coachable.

just my opinion, but with him not running balls out, heavy bat, and improving defense this last couple of years would be based on that. Frank Robinson might not have a kind word for him. I think he's well liked because he's not confrontational with team mates or media and he plays when he can.

My guess would be a large number of MLBers aren't coachable in the usual sense of the word. Someone like Soriano had a lot of success doing things the way he's used to doing them, so he's probably resistant to change. And when you have a huge guaranteed contract, some guys may not have the incentive to be coachable.

"I've never heard a coach say, or even imply, that Soriano isn't coachable." Coaches are seldom interviewed. They seem to be somewhat off limits. "Talk to the manager," that sort of thing. Also, I wonder if a coach has ever criticized a player making $15+ million. I would imagine that such a player could make things pretty hot for a lunchpail-carrying, hanger-on coach.

That's what professionals are supposed to say. I'm not necessarily saying he's a bad person or uncoachable, I'm just saying we can't know with the given information. My take on Soriano is a variation of my take on many of the Jim Hendry signings- a player is given more money than he's worth with the expectation that he will "play up" to his contract. These players often did not play up to the contract and were seen as a failure because of it.

Yeah, f' hendry too.

thought his first 2 years he more than held his own. He was always afraid of the wall, but he also gunned down a bunch of guys and his legs weren't completely shot. maybe last 3 years it's been bad, but the last 2 particularly...he's certainly giving more effort this season.

Midwest League K. Burke 0.2 IP, 3 H, 5 ER, 3 BB, 0 K Hoilman 0/2 DeVoss 0/1 (played RF) Mid WEST lost 18-2. Southern League J. Bour lost in the finals of the HR derby Adduci 2/2 with a 2B and an RBI Bour 1/3 with a BB Rhoderick 1 IP, 1 BB, rest 0's A. Cabrera 0.1 IP/1 BB, rest 0's Batista 0.2 IP/all 0's North lost 6-2

I'm reading the BP book "Everything you know is wrong" and just got into the chapter on 4-man rotations. It's not right next to me, but I seemed to recall a 100 pitch limit rather than 75. I would like to see it work for the Rockies so that some other teams try to copy it. In a perfect world the old closer would come back and work 3 innings for a save instead of just the ninth every day. This is related to the leverage concept and not saving your closer for the ninth, but using them when you actually need out of a jamb.

it's not gonna work, their pitchers are terrible. I'm also annoyed that Pomeranz is still in the minors after I spent way too much on him in an NL roto league in free agency and White and Friedrich are stinking it up still. So fuck them.

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 10:54am — Jumbo I'm reading the BP book "Everything you know is wrong" and just got into the chapter on 4-man rotations. It's not right next to me, but I seemed to recall a 100 pitch limit rather than 75. I would like to see it work for the Rockies so that some other teams try to copy it. In a perfect world the old closer would come back and work 3 innings for a save instead of just the ninth every day. This is related to the leverage concept and not saving your closer for the ninth, but using them when you actually need out of a jamb. ================================ JUMBO: Back in the 1950's and 1960's when the concept of the bullpen "fireman" was developed, the team's best reliever entered the game in high-risk situations in the 7th, 8th, or 9th inning and then stayed in the game and finished the game. It was not unusual for the firemen to get an AB. Teams were able to utiliyze their #1 reliever ("fireman") this way because a starter was not removed from a game pre-emptively because of pitch counts or just because it was the 9th inning and you're supposed to use your closer in save situations because "that's what they are paid to do." As long as the starter was throwing OK, he stayed in the game and the fireman was not used in that game. The best clubs had two "firemen" (a go-to #1 guy and a second fall-back option) so that one could be used for multiple innings one day and then the other one could be used the next day if the situation warranted it. The idea of the one-inning closer and pre-emptively pulling a starter did not become the norm until the 1980's. I remember the first time I heard the term "pitch count"and that was when KC's Steve Busby was returning from shoulder surgery in the 1970's and he was restricted to a certain number of pitches per outing. Pitch count limits weren't used to prevent injuries (because obviously they don't), but rather as part of an Rx for pitchers returning from a shoulder or elbow injury. BTW, the Cubs aren't doing it, but several organizations are now using a six-man rotation in the lower levels of the minors, with increased per-game pitch count limits so that the starter can pitch deeper into games. The idea is to replicate college ball, where starters normally work once a week (in college baseball the #1 guy is the so-called "Friday starter"), while at the same time holding-down a young pitcher's overall high-stress game workload (IP) for the season because the pitcher doesn't pitch in games as often. The extra off-day between starts is used for more-relaxed side-sessions ("bullpens") and/or "live" BP outings where the pitcher can work on mechanics and/or a pitch that needs work, with the pitcher throwing (in a relaxed environment) twice between starts instead of just once (which is the norm with a five-man rotation). The idea is for a pitcher never to go two days without throwing (either in a game, or in a bullpen side-session or "live" BP), and to build up the endurance needed to go deeper into games (and possibly even pitch a Complete Game). Whether that change can be integrated into a new general strategy to use a team's best reliever for multiple innings (but only when necessary) instead of pitching one inning just because it's the 9th inning and it's a "Save" situation remains to be seen, but it possibly could be.

PHIL: In looking at Phil Regan's stats (one of the few pre-1970 Cubs I remember as a "Fireman"), in 1968 he had 28 PAs, to go along with 24 "saves" (they were not called that). In 1969 - that "Special Year", the Vulture was down to 18 PAs and 17 saves. But if September was better that year for them, and the Playoffs, he could have padded both totals. In contrast, Lee Smith in 1982 had also 18 PAs and 18 saves for the Cubs - and 117IP. But, by the '90's in his great StL days, he had like zero or just a couple PA's per season.

My take on Soriano is that he has always had holes in his game and we paid way too much over too long a period. However, when we signed him he was coming off a 40/40 season and thought he could put us over the top. About a month into his first Cub season he pulled up lame and has never been the same. That is no ones fault. I never liked the lack of hustle, jump when he caught the ball, afraid of wall, etc. Take away the bad contract and it would not be as bad as it is now percieved. He seems to be a good guy in the club house and always has a poitive out look. He has certainly contributed to his lackadasical image, but the injury was a key factor in his less than expected Cubs career.

It was too much money and years from day 1 in exchange for a 40/40 season that was past and meant almost nothing. Everyone already knew the problems with Soriano before he got here--he was aging (Hendry said he thought he would age well, but when you have to go out and say that, you know it's already a concern), he was a poor defender, he had very little concept of the strike zone, and he could neither hit nor lay off of a bouncing breaking ball from a right-handed pitcher. These are almost all of the same problems he has today, except now he can't steal bases either, which no one really should've expected him to be able to do at this point in his career. I'm not saying anyone should've expected him to be as bad as he is. But even if he were doing a bit better, he'd still be nowhere near worth the contract they gave him.

Interesting that the Nats and Cubs have gone completely in opposite directions since Soriano left. Not including 2007-2008, of course.

Yes, the Cubs got good and the Nats got #1 draft picks.

Not just #1 picks, but #1 picks in the Strasburg and Harper drafts. That's just obscene luck.

Agreed. Compare to next year's draft, where the Cubs may well have the #1 pick but in which there is no transcendant talent like Strasburg/Harper.

But even if he were doing a bit better, he'd still be nowhere near worth the contract they gave him. Not so sure that is true. So far (including this year), Soriano will have been paid $92M. According to Fangraphs, he has been worth $73.6M, and that includes a partial year this year, but a full year of salary. So if we took off $9M (half of this 2012 salary), he would have been paid $83M and produced $73.6M in value. And that includes his terrible 2009 of 0 WAR. So it wouldn't have taken much improvement to come with 2 more WAR over 6.5 years. Now, that doesn't include the $36M he is still owed for the next two years. Which are really the problematic years of the contract. But overall Soriano hasn't actually been as bad advertised. And this year he has been pretty great.

I take it you buy the numbers they came up with for his fielding.

I actually have said in the past that Soriano gets a bad rap for his defense. I think that early with the Cubs he was actually quite solid (based on both my own eyes and the numbers), though he did significantly regress after his first couple of years (and the numbers back this up). Sure, he'd make a bad play here or there, but he was actually pretty good early on. And had one of the best LF arms in baseball. His arm was awesome - no one could run on him those first couple of years. He has definitely regressed on his defense to the point that he has been pretty awful over the last couple of years, but I don't think that the defensive numbers are that far off.

He's still got a cannon of an arm.

He's no Jay Buhner

Actually 2010 and 2012 OPS+ have both been in line with career averages. 2006 was a clear outlier and yet further warning never to offer contracts based off one good year (or reject a player based on one bad year), but he's not been a bad player. I never supported signing him and still wish we hadn't, but he does get some bad rap from fans. Though, yes, this is partially do to so much money sunk into a player on a team that can't compete during this player's good years.

Just to note, the current regime did offer DeJ a fair contract despite his terrible year last year. I admit I was a little hesitant, but thus far, I'm pretty happy with the DeJ deal.

I've clearly washed the 90's out of my memory, because I don't recall any of these uniform atrocities from Turn Ahead the Clock.

You know what will be really weird? In 2027 I bet the Mariners wear that uniform as a throwback to the past's future.

irony... "According to, Reds' prospect shortstop Billy Hamilton was the victim of an armed robbery Tuesday while in Winston Salem, North Carolina for the California League-Carolina League All-Star game."

Was someone trying to steal second base from him? Rimshot!

So Hamilton touched the burglar's boobs?

C'mon W. Sox sweep!

DeJesus CF, Castro SS, LaHair 1B, Soriano DH, Clevenger C, Barney 2B, Valbuena 3B, Johnson RF, Campy LF, Wells P

Wells = L.

Yeah, well the White Sox fans are saying Floyd = L. As they say, somebody has to lose this game.

shawn camp, then...

marmol is overdue

for the cubs, 2012 is a season of choices...the kind made at 3am in trailer parks after a night of drinking... hopefully they'll raise the trailer park and build a shiny new mall one day.


that, too.

b.beachy (ATL) to have, he was just getting started on an improbable ace-quality pitching career.

Does this mean the Braves need a Starter?

Yes, which is odd, being that going into this season they had 8 quality starters or something like that.

How about a mildly-injured starter? Just not Jose Ascanio coming back to the Cubs.

The dealing of Dempster and Garza, might be the most important of the Theo era. As they have to hit on one diamond in the rough #1 or#2 starter in return.

If Theo trades Garza, I'm really interested in who he gets in return. Will not be surprised to see Soto, Dempster, Marmol, and even, Soriano go, but not expecting any impact players in return for them. Maples, Vogelbach, Gretzky, Schlect, Lockhart are some notables from last year's draft P. Johnson (1s), Blackburn(1s), Conway(4), Prieto(5), Martin(10) from this year. Boise gets Bruno(7) & Christ(9).

Jair Bogaerts is the twn brother of Xander Bogaerts (Red Sox, BA #58 prospect going into 2012). I would certainly like to have Xander in the Cubs' system.

Because of the wacky "Parent Trap" schemes they'd get into? Trust me, they're never as fun in real life. Daily Herald blog is free again apparently.

It has always been free for me. I just disabled javascript when I hit the site. Then, the paywall just started blocking comment attempts, although I think you could still make comments if you turned off Javascript. I make that assumption based on all the t-shirt and other spam comments I saw.

Archer gives up double to Lombardozzi and RBI single to Harper to start off his career. Not throwing strikes as you'd expect. Got it up to 96 though.

Then gets Zimmerman to ground to SS, conservative hero Harper tries for third and would have been out but their SS threw it into the dugout. Down 2-0, no outs

K's LaRoche looking on a nice 12-6 curve and a groundout to follow.

Desmond with a 2-out RBI single, down 3-0 to Strasburg.

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  • Arizona Phil 12 hours 36 min ago (view)

    In addition to 40 players signed to 2020 MLB contracts, after releasing 22 minor leaguers this week the Cubs now have 279 players signed to 2020 minor league contracts (plus one minor leaguer on the Restricted List), for a total of 320 players in the organization (181 pitchers, 30 catchers, 60 infielders, and 49 outfielders).   


  • JustSayin' 21 hours 50 min ago (view)

    Years of over-drafting pitching shown here.


  • Dolorous Jon Lester 23 hours 40 min ago (view)

    Some of the players cut I am not too surprised by. Some of them I think are definitely victims of the minor league pay thing and being squeezed out.

    That said, I am very surprised they gave up already on Riley McCauley and Niels Stone.


  • Hagsag 1 day 1 hour ago (view)

    Baseball America is showing a big group of players that have been released.


  • Arizona Phil 1 day 14 hours ago (view)

    The Cubs have released minor league catcher Rafelin Lorenzo. He was selected from the Pittsburgh Pirates in the AAA Phase of the 2018 Rule 5 Draft and spent the 2019 season at South Bend. He was eligible to be a minor league 6YFA post-2020. 


  • JustSayin' 3 days 11 min ago (view)

    The organizations will cut rosters down, as if the full-season teams were breaking camp to start the season, THEN pay the remaining minor leaguers $400/week or whatever.  That's similar to what costs would have normally been but the "one last chance" players who got spring training invitations this year and didn't have an obvious roster spot won't be getting their last chance.


  • crunch 3 days 1 hour ago (view)

    "According to Jeff Passan of ESPN, all minor league players will be receiving $400 per week from MLB through at least May 31."

    so that's where that promise landed.  the scary thing is that's still more than some in the low minors make on a weekly basis.


  • crunch 5 days 18 hours ago (view)

    "Jeff Passan of ESPN writes that the players and league agreed that the 2020 season won't start until "there are no bans on mass gatherings that limit the ability to play in front of fans, there are no travel restrictions and medical experts determine games will not pose a risk to health of teams and fans." Passan does add that the two sides "will consider the feasibility of playing in empty stadiums" and also at neutral sites.


  • crunch 5 days 23 hours ago (view)

    i miss baseball.  it could happen in may happen in late might not happen either way.

    there's so many things getting messed up right now i would get lost making a list.  there's some college guys making a serious "okay, we need to look at that guy" push that's dead.  former cubs draft pick russell smith (2017, LHP highschool) took last season off for injury (TCU college) and returned with a low 90s fastball, impressive control, and a MLB-quality changeup.  his "comeback" was 4 games and done thanks to this current situation...


  • JustSayin' 6 days 2 hours ago (view)

    COVID 19 + a short draft + Manfred's obsessive drive to shrink the minor leagues will change baseball forever.  It WAS still America's grass roots sport.  Where I live, from June through August, you could see a quality live game any day of the week, within an hour's drive.  I believe that era is over.  What's going on will have ripple effects, contracting serious college ball, college summer leagues and independent pro ball just as much as the MiLB systems.  With those changes, some of the game's charm will also go.  I've seen a kid from Cape Cod play in the Ca


  • crunch 1 week 5 min ago (view)

    fyi for anyone who bought

    for "some reason" getting a cancel+refund via phone is like pulling teeth, but if you contact them via a webpage contact request many people are getting a cancel+refund confirmation within an hour or 2...


  • bradsbeard 1 week 7 hours ago (view)

    I imagine because the new labor agreement freezes rosters as of whenever the agreement is approved by the owners and it might affect what those guys are paid under the agreement. 


  • Hagsag 1 week 9 hours ago (view)

    AZ Phil. what was the reason that a whole bunch of teams optioned or assigned players to the minor leagues yesterday on March 26 ? Thanks.


  • Arizona Phil 1 week 13 hours ago (view)

    jdrnym: Ordinarily, players on an MLB Reserve List (40-man roster) who are on Optional Assignment to the minors do not accrue MLB Service Time, are paid at the minor league rate rather than at the MLB rate if the player has a "split" contract, and if the player gets hurt or becomes sick after being optioned, he can be placed on a minor league IL instead of on an MLB IL (so that he cannot accrue MLB Service Time or be paid at the MLB rate while he is on the IL). Also, a player who is optioned to the minors for at least 20 days will burn an option year.   


  • jdrnym 1 week 1 day ago (view)

    AZPhil, what are the technical ramifications of optioning/not optioning guys during this period of no baseball? Seems like some teams are more eager than others to trim their roster down.


  • crunch 1 week 2 days ago (view)

    "Major League Baseball has agreed with the MLBPA to grant a full year of service time to players in 2020 regardless of how many games the schedule includes.

    Rosenthal adds, however, that the two sides have agreed to "table discussions" on how much service time the players would receive if the worst-case scenario plays out and the 2020 season has to be canceled entirely due to the coronavirus pandemic."