Escape From L.A.

...with the series victory. GAME FOURTEEN IN-GAME DISCUSSION THREAD [PARACHAT] CHICAGO CUBS (8-5, 2nd, -1.5) AT LOS ANGELES DODGERS (7-8, 3rd, -2.0) Dodger Stadium, 9:10 PM CDT Weather: Clear, 71 degrees, wind out to center at 5 mph TV: CSN, DirecTV 741 Radio: WGN, XM 189
Brad Penny, RHP 2-0, 1.50 ERA, 18 IP 18 K, 1 BB, 2 HRSean Marhall, LHP 1-0, 7.71 ERA, 9 1/3 IP
HR*Juan Pierre, CF *Todd Walker, 2B Derrek Lee, 1B Aramis Ramirez, 3B *John Mabry, LF Jacque Jones, RF Michael Barrett, C Ronny Cedeno, SS *Sean Marshall, P#Rafael Furcal, SS *Kenny Lofton, CF #Jose Cruz, LF Jeff Kent, 2B Olmedo Saenz, 1B Bill Mueller, 3B Sandy Alomar, C , LF Brad Penny, P
Cubs vs. Penny Aramis Ramirez: 6-15, 400/400/467 Juan Pierre: 5-16, 313/421/375, 3 BB, 2 K Todd Walker: 3-20, 150/150/300, 1 HR, 4 K Neifi Perez: 3-18, 167/211/222, 1 BB, 1 K Michael Barrett: 1-16, 063/059/125, 5 K
I mentioned that last night's game had the potential to be "a nice tight game," and both pitchers held up their ends of the bargain. Zambrano pitched out of trouble a bit (walking five and hitting one) but timely defense kept most of those baserunners from crossing the plate. Derek Lowe was just slightly better, blanking the Cubs and getting out of the only jam he found himself in, in the 6th. Tonight's starter, Brad Penny, has looked great so far this season. In his three starts he's truck out 18 and walked only one. He's given up only one earned run in each of his starts. Sean Marshall, on the other hand, has struggled. I've seen a number of articles talking about how well he's pitched, and his poise, and I guess that's true when you look at the fact that he has barely any experiece above A ball, but examined as major league starts, they're not that great -- he's given up nearly a run an inning. On the positive side, he's only walked two batters and he's keeping the ball down. After throwing 65 and 79 pitches in his last two starts, he should be available to be stretched out a bit, possibly up to the 90-100 pitch range.


Thoughts so far:

Thank god we have Todd Walker and I pray to god we don't do something stupid like trade him.

As much as I want to see Marshall suceed, he needs quite a bit of help before becoming a consistent major league starter.

Furcal of the extra 20 lbs, $13m a year contract and .228 avg is getting booed already. Rafey might want to think about kicking back the beer.

is this murton's first night off?

Barrett now 1-18 vs Penny. I guess that is why he is batting 7th. Good job by Mabry getting the RBI....

And Ronny walks! Hooray!

i finally got unlazy and i'm gonna answer my own question...this is murton's first night not starting

does he have the night off, though? or is he available?


Unless a player is injured or in the bullpen, aren't they always "available"? I'm guessing Murton would be the first bat off the bench tonight.

Did that just actually happen? Good grief...

yeah, theyre always available, but a lotta manager will give players who have played a lot definate nights off (a mental and physical thing). dust is one of them.

anyone else having trouble with MLBTV?? Saying something about server not responding or some Horse shit...

are these pitches as bad as they look on gameday??

It is amazing how quickly having pitchers who can't get out of the 6th inning completely negates the advatage of a quality bullpen. It doesn't matter that they have guys like Dempster, Williamson, and Eyre when they have to go with a guy like Aardsma because our starters can't even pitch 6 innnings.

On a similair note, does anyone else think that Aardsma is an exact clone of every other young relief pitcher the cubs have brought up in the past couple years. Wellemeyer, Wuertz, Novoa, Aardsma, even Ohman to a lesser extent all have live arms, great stuff, and walk way too many batters.

Mike R. great points. I just got home and when I saw that Marshall got the hook after 5 and had only given up 2 I thought he must have gotten injured.

Why the hell don't these kids (z included) watch Maddux and learn??

Son of a Bitch

F, who's injured?

HAHAHA...looks at these guys---this is pathetic.

Dude, what is happening??!!!

A god damn bunt by the 13 million dollar man takes out 17 million dollars of Cubs payroll.

Cripes......I'm laying in bed trying to sleep and it's not happening. So I decide to get on the computer and check out the Cubs game just in time to see "Injury Delay." And now Lee and Eyre are out of the game. WTF just happened?!

Is it serious??

Apparently. From the reaction of Cubs bloggers on other sites, it sounds season-threatening.

Ron Santo was screaming his head off. I get the feeling his wrist is broken


Lee looked to be in a good amount of pain. I didn't even really see what was botheting Eyre so hopefully it was just precautionary.

Furcal laid down a bunt. Eyre dove for it and flicked it to Lee. Furcal ran into Lee and he hurt his right wrist. Looks like Eyre hurt his foot or ankle. They took both Eyre and Lee out of the game.

Here's what my friend said about it

*Furcal bunts the ball perfectly*

Eyre: "Look, a baseball"!

*Eyre dives acrobatically for the ball*

Eyre: "Well Furcal is basically at 1st base and the ball is in my glove.. so gee.. maybe this is a base hit.. BUT WAIT... how bout I flip the the ball to Derrek Lee with my glove, he's a gold glover!"

*Eyre throws it 10 feet over Lee's head*

Lee: "Oh ****!"

*Lee collides with Furcal and dies*

*Eyre limps around like a dumbass*

And this is how Eyre just injured our star player as well as himself in the same play!

If you didn't see it, Furcal laid down a bunt right between the mound and 1st base. Eyre threw the ball wildly, leading Lee to collide with Furcal, injuring his wrist. I'm not exactly sure how Eyre hurt himself, but I think it was a leg injury, perhaps from slipping while fielding the ball.

Lee's injury looked bad. very bad.

what in gods name is going on???

Did Lee's injury result from him hitting Furcal? Or did he hit the ground with his wrist as a result of hitting Furcal?

Jim Hendry better be on the phone with Josh Byrnes trying to get Tony Clark right now.

I'm seriously vomitting

Lee got hurt from the collision with Furcrap.

Jim hendry should be cancelling any checks he wrote in the past month right now... hey, maybe we could trade Butterball for Pooholes

The Cubs are a Modern day Greek Tragedy

Rotoworld has a significantly more optimistic take on it:

Derrek Lee left tonight's game in the seventh inning with a right wrist injury following a collision with Rafael Furcal at first base.
It looked pretty bad at first, but Lee didn't seem to be in a lot of pain as he left. Lee got his right wrist trapped between his body and Furcal's while he was standing at first bsae awaiting a throw. We'll label him day-to-day for now. If he needs to miss a few games, the Cubs will play Todd Walker at first and go with Jerry Hairston Jr. and Neifi Perez at second. Apr. 20 - 12:39 am et

God, I hope they're right.

A.I think that was secretly carrie muskat or
2. THat person has already gone into shock and is in a complete state of denial
3. God I hope they're right

What's happening in the game

My gameday has it still at the end of the 8th

On a lighter note, I think Jose Macias killed Freddie Bynum and is wearing his face ala Silence of the Lambs.

at least i will be able to sleep if the cubs win this one. wow.

cedeno is my personal jesus.


Bynum pinch hits. Ground-out to third.
Ramirez is out #2.
Neifi singles.
Jacque reaches on error by the pitcher.
Barrett RBI single. Jones to third, Barrett to 2nd on throw.
Cedeno 2 RBI single.

5-4 Cubs, one out still to go.! Go Cubs!

5-4 lead now on 3 hits and 2 errors

WTF just happened. Gameday froze up too!

Thanks, I'm still drinking myself sober tonight

I read on another site that someone said they saw Lee open and close his fist and move all his fingers either as he came off the field or as he was in the dugout. That's encouraging.

But seriously, that is pretty sweet.

Can we get a restraining order filed against the cubs medical staff

I actually agree with the report. When D-Lee first went down, I thought it looked bad. After a few minutes, though, he really didn't appear to be in much pain. I actually thought he might stay in the game. Then again, you just never and know and this certainly sucks.

Also, Eyre's injury did NOT look good. He looked like he was in a lot of pain coming off.

Nice throw Cedeno...

I thought Dunston was retired??

Thanks, Mark. What exactly did Eyre injure? His ankle, his hammy?

Also, anyone got a game update for those of us waiting for GameDay to catch the hell up? I hear Cedeno airmailed another throw.

ohhh no, come on, this is not true, d lee injured ? this is feels really bad, hows the game?, gameday its really slow

Cubs got out of a runner on second, 2 out situation. Pierre on first after a bunt single in the top of the 9th

No problem. I couldn't really tell what was wrong with Eyre. He knelt over and looked terrible, and then left without really attempting to see if he could continue.

Cedeno did airmail the throw, but all good now.

Unbelieveable. The only word that applies. No, not the Lee injury. We are a injury ridden team. I can't believe we may actually come back in the late innings from a two run deficit, especially after the Lee injury brought everyone down. This would be a huge, huge win. Let's hope Dempster continues to be on form.

Sorry for the double post folks. I'm a little anxious over here

Man...I fell asleep and woke up to all this injury crap. Now I'm fricken wide awake.

Understandable, Uke. Isn't this the quintessential game for a Cubs fan?

Sometimes I think Manny actually is Dusty Baker, cheering just a little bit every time a young player screws up.

That said, Cedeno's throw was one of the worst I've ever seen from a major league shortstop.

Eyre: Wright knee contusion (DTD)

Lee: X-rays inconclusive, more tests tomorrow---?!&(#:


Take that, alchie.

Yeah, it is. It's like if the Cubs can pull out this one after what happened, then there's might be a glimmer of hope after all. That's what it's all about. Hope.

Maybe we can get Letroy Hawkins back

Inconclusive x-rays? Damn, that doesn't sound good.

how the hell do you get inconclusive x rays? seriously, there is a crack or there is not. There is not too much gray area between. This sounds like another bull... cubs injury report. I am betting it's fractured.

Cedeno!!!!!!!! Cubs win!!!!!

WGN Just reported that the Cubs are calling Lee's injury a sprained right wrist. Apparently X-rays were inconclusive & he will travel to Chicago tomorrow to be re-evaluated.

Calling Eyre's injury a knee contusion.

who's manny??

This game is the most quintissential cubs game since Bartgate

Eyre: knee contution, Day to Day

DLee: Sprained Wrist, xrays inconclusive. More tests tomorrow.

this is a sad win, im happy that we win, but really worried about the injuries

thats the game. whew. i...i have ANOTHER ulcer now. theres no doubt about it.

Well, inconclusive is better than at least one alternative. And Eyre's injury does not sound bad, ie, a contusion is a bruise to most of us.


GReat come from behind win after being down 2 and Lee and Eyre getting hurt. Team showed great heart coming back.

9-5 record and an offday coming up to see if Eyre and Lee can rest up. Then teh Cardinals...

Go Cubs!!

Don't be too worried about the injuries. If the law of averages applies, even remotely, neither of these injuries will be serious.

And we know the Cubs wouldn't hold back any information from the public, after all.

so Furcal took how many more millions to go to LA this season?? He almost cost us a cool 13 mil this year...

I just noticed that the injury happened after midnight eastern time, meaning one year ago today Nomar got injured

lets hope, the injures are not serious, because if they are, will be a real turn down for the team

Nope, Manny is definitley Carrie Muskat

Well if they're calling it a sprain, sounds like they think it's a ligament problem. So I'm going to be optimistic and guess that the x-ray came back negative for a break, so they think it must be a problem with the ligament, requiring an MRI for a further diagnosis.

That's funny. 4/20. Hitler. Columbine. "Half Baked." The whole salami. A bad day to be a Cub. Along with pretty much any time in June.

wow....stunned at the win

Lee didn't look to be in that much pain and i agree, i thought he might stay in. my guess is it's a sprain, he'll have to sit out the STL series which sucks, walker starts at first, and lee will likely be back next week.

of course, i base that on nothing.

anyone know if williams is getting skipped in the rotation friday? i would, esp. considering it's the cards.

rusch, maddux, Z


williams, rusch, maddux

hmmm.....come on dusty, you can do it.

how the hell do you get inconclusive x rays? seriously, there is a crack or there is not. There is not too much gray area between. This sounds like another bull... cubs injury report. I am betting it's fractured.

No, inconclusive says that it doesn't show anything of note but there still could be something else that they couldn't show. I injured my knee in december and had x-rays done on it, they were inconclusive, so I had an MRI which showed that I had swelling and bruising in my knee, but nothing else. X-rays don't show everything that could be wrong, so its smart of the Cubs to say they were inconclusive, even if they don't think there's anything seriously wrong, until they can run some other tests (potentially an MRI) or wait for swelling (if any) to go down for further evaluation on the injury.

Y'all are way too damn quick to jump to the worst possible outcome....sheesh.


yes manny, it was Dusty's amazing managerial skills that won this game.....oye, the dusty trusty crap was old back in '03, and we went to the playoffs that year...enough is enough already

Of course we're quick to make negative assumptions. These are the Cubs we're dealing with here

xrays = inconclusive = we know nothing.

until the next round of images are done it could be a buncha nothing or it could be a break...there's a lot of small bones in the hand and an impacted wrist can hurt like hell initially.

either way he's on his way to chicago to get looked at and he's gonna be down 1-2-3+ games.


i was really worried about eyre, but unless i'm interpretting it wrong, it seems his injury may just be a bruise-like thing from him falling on his knee...i was kinda worried him falling was a result of an injury, not a cause of it.

jeez guys...lets keep eachother posted on derek and eyre as always. boy we sure pulled that one out of our ass.
tonight i drink to the ol 2 out none on 8th inning 3 run rally!

we, as fans, i mean...

Of course we're quick to make negative assumptions. These are the Cubs we're dealing with here

it honestly borders (and at times crosses) the line of absurdity though


I believe the Cubs have already said Williams will not be skipped. He pitches fairly well against the Cards apparently, though I don't think that's the justification they gave.

Matchups for the weekend:

Williams - Mulder
Rusch - Ponson
Maddux - Marquis

As for DLee's wrist, there's a couple reasons that it could be inconclusive. One is that due to the intricate nature of the wrist's anatomy, it's just too hard to tell if there is a hairline break or not. An additional factor is the amount of swelling that already might have affected the wrist. There may be no sign of a clear break but with inflamed ligaments and muscles, it's too hard to call it completely negative with certainty. Also, since Prior's elbow x-rays initially came back negative but then showed a hairline break, the Cubs could be deciding to be cautious with this one.

Ugh, here's hoping for the best. I'm saying my prayers tonight.

Retrofade: I again refer you back to Game 6, NLCS, 8th inning.... its not that abusrd

Or how bout Prior vs. Giles, prior elbow vs. baseball, wood all of '04-'05. Rusch vs. Arroyo,
Corked Batt, KKKpat, Dusty luvs Neifi....again, we have lots of reasons to go straight to the negative

Retrofade: I again refer you back to Game 6, NLCS, 8th inning.... its not that abusrd
to automatically assume the worst in any given situation because of stuff like that is nearly the definition of absurd.

I mean c'mon, D-Lee gets injured, x-rays are inconclusive, so automatically he has a broken wrist and the Cubs are lying about the injury in the minds of many here...give it some time before you start the sky is falling routine. It may show that his wrist is in fact broken, but just because x-rays were inconclusive doesn't mean any spinning is going on.....but whatever floats your boat I guess. I'll continue to be optomistic until I hear otherwise.

to each his own.... i hope you're right. (there that was kinda optimistic, right?)

C'mon now guys. Cubs won, it's looking like the Lee injury isn't as bad, and I'm starting to fall in love with Ronny Cedeno. Let's just celebrate this for what it is

cedeno eh??? I'm a murton man myslef, but I've always liked red-heads...

I was at the game...what an incredibly weird game. Maybe it will all make sense in the morning. we had no business winning that game...cedeno made one of the worst throws from short to firts I have seen in a decade, and Eyre's play was just hideous and almost ruined the entire season...Aardsma walks 35 guys, we give up 2 runs after 2 outs...and yet we still manage to did that happen.

#67 Ienpw:

Inconclusive x-rays are common. My little brother had one a few weeks ago. All it means is that they think there's a decent chance that he has a fracture, but they haven't found any evidence that he does.

X-rays are not as clear cut as you might think.

eyre's play was kinda ugly cuz he was busy falling on the ground injuring himself...dunno why he went down but he went down hard.

its not like he's got some "throw your body into the turf and toss ball from your glove" play he was working on this spring that he screwed up.

From my vantage at the game, Eyre tried hard for the ball and dove to stop it and then tried too hard to get it to Lee. I think he intended to make a more graceful dive, but he ended up on his belly and thought he still had a play. I was screaming no as soon as he threw it, just seemed like a bad idea.

Lee went down hard and was in obvious pain. He'll be lucky if it's only a serious sprain. He did seem to be able to flex it though almost immediately, so either it's a very minor break or we got very lucky.

Wrist X-Rays often don't show fractures of the navicular bone and even on occasion the larger distal radius (which is the more commonly injured wrist bone). if the navicular is injured it requires a specifically angled XRay view which may not have had a tech there who knew how to take that view. Even if that specific view doesn't show a fracture a hairline fracture can still be present. Nowadays, MRI's will be the next test if the XRays are negative/inconclusive. In the old days (1980's) they had to wait a week or two and repeat the XRay or get a bone scan (a nuclear medicine test which show increased bone activity when there is a fx). to make the diagnosis of a hairline navicular fracture. MRI's can show fractures and lesser events like bone bruises (as in Prior's elbow injury). MRI's can also show acute ligament injuries (sprains).

So if DLee's XRays are negative, expect for him to get an MRI. At $13+ M a season, they want to know as much about the injury as soon as possible.

I watched the replay in slow motion several times. One of the camera angles clearly caught how his wrist got hyperextended when Furcal ran into DLee. Furcal was running extremely far inside the baseline and I'm surprised nobody whined that he should have been called out for being out of the basepath. If he were actually running at first base I doubt there would have been impact.

I would be more worried if the injury happened from DLee falling on an outstretched right wrist but he fell backward onto his back. Clearly the injury occurred when DLee used his wrist to try to push Furcal away from him upon their impact.

Furcal was running extremely far inside the baseline and I'm surprised nobody whined that he should have been called out for being out of the basepath. If he were actually running at first base I doubt there would have been impact.

On a play like that the base runner is actually supposed to stay on the foul side of the bag, if he runs on the fair side he can be called out for interference. It more often applys to bunts right in front of the plate, but I'm sure that's where Furcal always goes just out of habit.

And its hard to say someone was out of the basepath when the collision happened while both players were touching the bag.

the base runner is actually supposed to stay on the foul side of the bag, if he runs on the fair side he can be called out for interference.

that's my point...he was running on the fair side and it might be considered interference. DLee and Furcal were well into fair territory when the impact occurred

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Recent comments

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  • Manny Rondon faced 13 batters ... and got 10 to K. Not a bad day's work.

    Eric S 4 hours 50 sec ago view
  • With several other Cubs hitters bailing out on curves today I think overall it wasn't being seen well. It for sure looked silly but a good breaking pitch coming at you and then breaking down isn't the easiest thing to see and has made many hitters look silly. Also Soler should have more walks this year but for quite a few called strikes that were actual balls and even the called strike he bailed on was borderline.

    johann 6 hours 58 min ago view
  • it's not like we're talking about a guy who's never had issues with pitch selection and seeing the ball over here. we're talking about a guy who has some rather legendary swing-and-misses at breaking stuff who's been exploited low. going forward it's worth paying attention to seeing if he can be exploited inside, too. he seriously bailed out of the box on a called strike. sure it was a good curve, but he obviously didn't see that well at all.

    crunch 7 hours 10 min ago view
  • It would seem like he is figuring it out now and it's really coming together. Really happy for him. Joe was really protecting him from the 3rd time through the order, but as you allude to, he is earning trust to go deeper.

    Wondering if has potential to become a #3 pitcher? His current stats certainly support it.

    The E-Man 7 hours 19 min ago view
  • That doesn't count b/c CRUNCH didn't see it on his 60" HDTV 5 times in replay.

    I have seen many players "bail out" when the ball looked like it was gonna hit them.

    Especially with the advent of the splitter and pitchers that can really get the ball to dance. Marmol, Sutter, Pedro Martinez, Curt Schilling, Derek Lowe, Smoltz, Arrietta...

    These guys have made the best bail out only for the ball to come over the plate and be called a strike.

    No shame in that. The same way players whiff hard enough to cause them to drill a hole in the ground from spinning.

    The E-Man 7 hours 25 min ago view
  • a 60" TV with slow-motion replay and multiple looks on that replay helps...a lot...

    it's one thing to shy away like he did the 2nd time, it's another to bail out of the box on a called strike. that happened in the 1st one he pulled away from. he misjudged that one by a foot or so...

    crunch 7 hours 43 min ago view
  • Good Hendricks sure is fun to watch. He was hitting all his corners today and the Phillies couldn't do anything with his changeup.

    johann 8 hours 19 min ago view
  • Bryant and I believe Zobrist both did that too.

    johann 8 hours 37 min ago view
  • Soler BB acumen and plate awareness is excellent. Not unusual for even the best players to react as if they were about to hit them, "even though they weren't that close" from your vantage point sitting on your deck, or wherever.

    The E-Man 8 hours 39 min ago view
  • soler vs inside breaking balls is scary.

    he's had 2 inside curve balls today where he reacted as if they were about to hit him even though they weren't that he bailed out of the box on, it was a called strike.

    crunch 8 hours 57 min ago view
  • j.urias optioned back to AAA...guess we wont be seeing him in the LAD series.

    crunch 9 hours 4 min ago view
  • so is him actually getting 2 hits in a game (2 doubles!)...first time he's even been on base 2 times in a game since 9 games ago on his 3/4, 1bb day.

    im ready for him to at least look like a 2-slot hitter since he's gonna be slotted there no matter what he does.

    crunch 10 hours 4 sec ago view
  • That Heyward move to avoid Bryant's ball hit at him was a thing of beauty too.

    johann 10 hours 17 min ago view
  • 9 pitches in and this game already rules.

    HR, double...bryant's turn (who came out to a Kris Kross song for some horrible, horrible reason).

    ...2 run inning...zoobrest hitting streak at 14.

    crunch 10 hours 22 min ago view
  • First time I saw Herrera was yesterday. He took like 100 pitches, fouled off a ton off Lester.

    Very nice young player and perfect leadoff guy.

    The E-Man 11 hours 32 min ago view
  • Obviously not Phil. But he mentioned this on Wednesday.

    "Dominican Summer League (DSL) Opening Day is Saturday June 4th, so probably about 8-10 pitchers and position players presently at EXST in Mesa will be sent to the Cubs Dominican Academy (probably sometime this week) and be assigned to either DSL Cubs #1 or DSL Cubs #2."

    In the comments here:

    QuietMan 12 hours 11 min ago view