Dr. Zekyll or Mr. Zyde

GAME TWENTY-EIGHT IN-GAME DISCUSSION THREAD [PARACHAT] CHICAGO CUBS (14-13, 5th, 4 GB) AT SAN DIEGO PADRES (13-15, 4th, 2.5 GB) Puppy Park, 9:05 PM CDT Weather: 65 degrees, cloudy TV: CLTV, DirecTV 745 Radio: WGN, XM 189
Chan Ho Park, RHP 1-1, 5.34 ERA, 30.1 IP 24 K, 6 BB, 2 HRCarlos Zambrano, RHP 0-2, 5.35 ERA, 33.2 IP
4 HR*Juan Pierre, CF *Freddie Bynum, LF *Todd Walker, 1B Aramis Ramirez, 3B Michael Barrett, C *Jacque Jones, RF Jerry Hairston Jr., 2B #Neifi Perez, SS #Carlos Zambrano, P*Dave Roberts, LF Mike Cameron, CF *Brian Giles, RF #Mark Bellhorn, 1B Khalil Greene, SS Vinny Castilla, 3B Josh Barfield, 2B #Josh Bard, C Chan-Ho Park, P
Cubs vs. Park: Neifi Perez: 14-41 341/391/439 4 BB, 7 K, 4 2B &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp John Mabry: 5-24 208/345/250 8 K Juan Pierre: 12-22 545/583/727 Todd Walker: 5-13 385/467/462 Aramis Ramirez: 4-13 308/308/385 Michael Barrett: 4-13 308/400/385 Jacque Jones: 3-12 250/357/583 Padres vs. Zambrano: Geoff Blum: 5-19 263/300/316 1 BB, 6 K Vinny Castilla: 7-15 467/529/533 2 BB, 1 K
I promise to never make fun of another team's lineup after the historic futility that the Cubs have managed to reap upon us the last 6 or so games. It's been ugly, almost as ugly as the bulk of Z's starts this year. Here's Zambrano's numbers extrapolated for a full 33 starts so far: 0-11, 5.35 ERA, 185 IP, 33 HR, 137 BB, 209 K It's seems pretty obvious what his problem has been so far and from the games I've watched it appears Z is attempting to strike out every single batter. Go back to serving up groundball after groundball Z, cause this team is in desperate need of a dominant starting pitching performance, especially one where we don't give up any runs early in the game. The Padres offense is pretty sad too, not quite as sad as ours so far, and certainly not as sad as the lineup Dusty decided to pencil in today, but pretty darn close. Normally seeing Chan Ho Park in the rotation would be a welcome sight, but Park's peripheral numbers are actually pretty good and I'm not sure our offense would fare to well if the Padres decided to resurrect Eric Show from the grave. Score some runs...somehow!!!


Eric Show has no longer been with us since 1994 - per wikipedia "Show died at age 37 in a drug and alcohol rehabilitation center in Dulzura, California, of a heart attack after taking a speedball"

No doubt even if the Pads managed to get him out on the mound tonight, he'd still manage to blank the cubs.

totally forgot about that...thanks, I'll alter that

btw, if your a frustated Cubs fans at the moment (and who isn't), here's an idea...


Hmmm, offense can't score.

Cure.....play Bynum in LF and Neifi at SS. Mix and serve.

Just kill me now.

Dusty doesn't mix up lineup, he is unimaginative and accepting losing. He mixes up lineup, he is crazy.

Bynum went 1-3 last night with a BB. Neifi has beat up Park pretty good in his career (14-41).

Im all for trying anything at this point. 5 runs in 5 games and what, you want to do nothing?

I'm gonna ventura a guess that most of those hits off Park came many moons ago when Neifi was a Rockie and Park was a Dodger, doubt they mean much these days.

I am just bitching because when Dusty pulls the worst lineup he can possibly think of out of his ass it works for 1 game. Much like whenever I talk bad about Neifi in parachat and he hits a triple or HR to seek his revenge against my comment.

But seriously, $90 million, we shouldn't have to be forced to ever see Bynum and Neifi starting any game, especially at the same time. Just like we should never see Macias and Perez playing in the same game at the same time. Things like that shouldn't happen for the amount of cash spent on this team. But they do, and then we are shocked we are not competitive at the end of the year. Go figure.

The following "batters" are in our starting lineup tonight:


This is not a knock on Dusty (except for the Bynum + Neifi together part, which is not intelligent). Just an observation about the sadness that will soon descend on us this Friday evening.

Of course we will probably win 7-2, now.

does it really matter what our effing lineup is?
....well, does it?


we really suck.

based on the last 5 games...no

No matter the lineup right now, we are in deep shit offensively.

Where's Murton?

The other day I posted about the rumored Dontrelle Willis for Edwin Encarnacion trade. What about Felix Pie for Miguel Cabrerra? We could move Cabrerra to right when Lee comes back. Jones could be traded, especially if we eat part of his contract and/or include a prospect. Cabrerra would make a huge difference...

Maybe we're showcasing Woo Woo Bynum for our big deal with the O's. Koronka would be nice to have right now. So would Juan Cruz.


Former 1st round pick Matt Clanton who was released by the Cubs in the winter has some choice words for the Cubs organization, according to Clanton, Jim Hendry once said this to him:

'This [organization] is not a democracy. It is a dictatorship. You shut the f--k up.í

"Iím not sure our offense would fair to well..."

I'm not sure our offense would FARE TOO well

it's Friday, I'm 2 Dos Equis in already :)

*Koronka would be nice to have right now. So would Juan Cruz.*

Yet, they both sucked ass while they were here--Cruz sucked ass in Atlanta AND Oakland. Maybe the problem is with the Cubs coaches.

*Former 1st round pick Matt Clanton who was released by the Cubs in the winter has some choice words for the Cubs organization, according to Clanton, Jim Hendry once said this to him:

'This [organization] is not a democracy. It is a dictatorship. You shut the f--k up.í*

And Hendry is right. If he said the same thing to Dusty, you'd be applauding him.

*What about Felix Pie for Miguel Cabrerra? We could move Cabrerra to right when Lee comes back.*

Apparently Cabrera has a hard-on to play 3rd base. I suppose we could trade Ramirez back to the Pirates for Craig Wilson, who would miraculously start to suck as soon as he put on Cubby blue.

And Hendry is right. If he said the same thing to Dusty, you'd be applauding him.

Feeling punchy, J-Damn? I don't even think I commented on the supposed quote, just thought it was highly funny.

this is matt clanton that said this. he's not exactly maddux or etc. god knows this club has cut and pissed off more people than clanton with a lot more credibility than he will ever have in baseball.

Hey rob you didnt mention the evolution of Z's G/F


Though its hard to remember he allowed just nine HR in 2003.

Yet, they both sucked ass while they were here--Cruz sucked ass in Atlanta AND Oakland. Maybe the problem is with the Cubs coaches.

Actually Cruz was pretty good in Atlanta.

Remember that Dusty puts the lineups together BEFORE each series. That's why they make no sense.

The best thing to happen for ALL the stakeholders is for The Tribune Company to have the courage to sell the Chicago Cubs to some private investors that are committed to fielding a competitive team...There's plenty of money in Chicago -- lots of money in the Private Equity, Hedge Fund, and Investment Management business in Chicago that wants to see the Cubs have a real chance to win...A syndidate could be structured quite easily (it would be great if Hall of Fame player Ryne Sandberg could be a part of that Syndicate too). Tribune would want to structure long-term radio and TV broadcast rights for the Cubs games...that could be arranged as a part of a co-marketing deal...The new owners of the Cubs would clearly want totally new management for the team -- a new General Manager, a new Manager, new pitching and batting coaches, etc...Tribune has had real trouble recently and it is under pressure like many of the publicly traded media firms that have to answer to shareholders every quarter...I read that Tribune bought the Cubs many years ago for around $20 Million and a recent issue of Forbes estimates that the value of the team is around $450 Million right now...Tribune could use the cash and the Cub fans could CLEARLY use some new owners (and some new management). A privately held syndicate would have the flexibility to spend more on talent and plan for the long term. Yet, if you look at the White Sox this year they are fielding a stonger team than last year and are not spending any more than the Cubs are right now...The White Sox clearly have a better General Manager (and Manager) than the Cubs have -- there is no doubt about it...the records tell the truth...Yet, the Cubs have the potential to be a really outstanding team. In my opinion this will not happen until they have new ownership, a new culture, a new more disciplined management, and a new strategy to create a World Series Contender...Just my view tonight...;-)

Upon Park's inducing a first-pitch popout to Todd Walker, the San Diego play-by-play guy just said "The Chan Hizzle For Shizzle."

i'm seeing rust growing on the cub bats

thank goodness Pierre walked to lead off otherwise we'd be succumbing to a perfect game against us

Whose idea was it to play Freddie Bynum instead of Matt Murton...???

The trib spend more than enough money to compete year in and year out, they just don't have the right GM to spend the money wisely.

it's Friday, I'm 2 Dos Equis in already :)

I hear ya, buddy! Amber or green bottles? I like both, but I'm sticking with green tonight.

Come on, boys, let's support Z with some runs!

we suck.

Interesting stat posed by the San Diego team: last year, Dusty Baker led the majors in pitchouts called for, with 70. The next highest in the big leagues was 50. I don't know necessarily what this means, but it is probably a testament to Barrett's shortcomings, and more clearly to a need of Dusty to keep himself busy during the course of a game.

I love this Zambrano.

Its Wait 'til next year!! Again, already...

I have been following the Cubs since 1966. I'm 48.

Since 2003, the expectations on the club to succeed, and to kill the "lovable loser" label has been very high.

However, the way in which these teams have been constructed, and how the money has been spent, is unbelievable. Also, the sheer string of bad luck is amazing.

Many TCR bretheren try to compare this to the cream of the crop teams in the NL losing key players - the Cards, Astros, Braves, etc. And intimate that, "Look how they went 45-10 during the last part of the season..." This is not fair! The Cubs are NOT like these organizations.

What has happened this year, like 2005, and 2004, is that the depth at every position is not as good as the above teams. Of course, it has been demonstrated with post season trips that even half of the Cubs "A" players would be bench players on the above teams in my opinion.

I really also believe, as another contributor coined here, the culture of winning - year in-year out - is just not here on the North Side.

I am SO jealous about the White Sox, yet I really respect them. Jerry Reinsdorf wears the Sox on his sleve. He takes it personally.

As long as asses are in all the seats in Wrigley, and they always are, the current management could not truly give a shit if the team is winning.

That's how I feel now. Its how I felt after Nomar went down last year and I knew it was over then.

We may get teased with a winning streak in the months to come, but it will not matter.

This really is a 4th place team.

433 - if you're reading this, I will put up $50 to your $50 for Cubs Care if the Cubs finish higer than 4th, I'll donate - you lose and you do the same.

I don't mind paying the money, but I'm afraid that I'm going to win.

Hey rob you didnt mention the evolution of Z's G/F

yeah, I thought of that later, thanks for bringing it up...

Maybe I'm just stupid and couldn't find it, but did Comcast really schedule the Sox and Cubs on the same night, and then not turn on the Cubs game until the top of the 8th inning? They played the Sox postgame show instead of showing the effing Cubs game?!?!?!?

I don't care if the Sox win 20 World Series in a row, the VAST majority of Chicago still cares more about the Cubs. Someone at Comcast should be fired.

(That is, if I'm not stupid, and they really did wait until the top of the 8th to turn on the game.)

The look on Zambrano's face after Pierre's groundout was truly depressing.

Doug: Tonight the Cubs game has been broadcast on CLTV (owned by Tribune)...Not all the games are on Comcast Sportsnet. In the last hour I watched Bill Maher's Real Time program on HBO and it was a lot more entertaining than watching the Cubs...Zambrano has pitched so well tonight BUT our offense has let him down. Can the Cubs actually score a run...? What about timely hits...?

We logged into Gameday Audio from Tokyo to listen to this mess? Thank goodness we didn't log in until Mabry was up.

Bynum should NEVER start. See Macias, Jose.

We're going to the Yomimuri Giants game tonight. I was really hoping that they were playing the Ham Fighters so I could yell at Macias, but sadly they are not.

Dusty was CRAZY to play Bynum in LF tonight -- 2 crucial errors...Murton is a much better player and a MUCH BETTER hitter. There is no doubt about it.

2 ERs for Bynum... Neifi will be starting in RF tomorrow.

holy Brant Brown Bat Man!!!! grrrrr

I mean LF...

Maybe it's time for Dusty to do "a double switch"...add a new pitcher and put Murton back in the game...;-)

How can a player be put back in a game??

I just meant I wanted to see Murton in there tonight...too bad he didn't come thru for us though...The Cubs leave 2 base runners in the top of the 10th -- that's dangerous...The team just doesn't seem to have any RBI horsepower right now.

Will Ramirez surprise us with an RBI that counts in the top of the 11th inning...??

I think we should look at trying to make a 3-team deal with the Reds. They could use some bullpen help and if we don't want to give it directly to them, let's do it through another team. I'll take Austin Kearn or Adam Dunn in return. Seriously, they should be willing to part with either Freel or Denorfia, who can't both play with Brandon Phillips in the lineup.

My god this is horrible.

Just end this game already Padres. Put me out of my damn misery

It's only 3 hours, but it feels like a double-header.

**** **** the Cubs

Hairston should have had that runner according to Ron Santo...Oh well, the Cubs paid the price again for leaving SO MANY runners stranded on the bases...Jim Hendry, this team is diving below .500 and into last place in it's division...I hope you are AGGRESSIVELY trying to do a deal to shore up the offense...Get out the checkbook, get creative, and get a deal done quickly.

What a completely pathetic offense. This is more than a funk. It's who they are. What a disaster.

You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off the ol' Lone Ranger

Every cubs game feels like a double-header! This is so old already.

Trade Suggestion: trade Bynum, Perez, and hairston for a horse. Once we get the horse we shoot it.

hendry must thank his lucky stars that he got that extension when he did....this is horsecrap and it's his fault.

Cubs position players now have one RBI in the last 55 innings. Not making that up.

this is horsecrap and it's his fault.

I won't deny that it is indeed partially and maybe even primarily his fault. His penchant for acquiring sucky, toolsy players has finally bit him in the ass hard.

But it isn't really his fault that everyone on this team forgot how to get a run home, or that Derrek Lee broke his wrist, or that ARam is FUBAR right now, and Z up until tonight.

It's weird -- I've never seen anything like this, with any team. Maybe the curse is finally peaking after 98 years -- it's on its last legs and is going out with a bang. By mid-May we'll be scoring 10 runs a game with a team ERA below 1.00.

Note: The above does not excuse Hendry from trying to fix this situation ASAP. But I have no idea how.

At this point we must realize that we are no better then the Royals, Pirates, or the Marlins. We don't have a flood of position prospects coming up and our pitchers can't stay healthy. This team is pathetic. I'm totally frustrated by this crap every day!

2 runs scored in the last six games. Shazzam!

Just for the fun of it, I'd love to see them field pitchers at every position one night. Just to see what would happen.

I wonder what a trade of Pierre would fetch some time around the beginning of June?

I think Prior should just relax and stop rehabbing from his shoulder owwie. All that work is clearly taxing his delicate system. It was really sad to hear about his upset tummy.

When's the last time a Cub hit a homer? Really. Yeah I know that's an extremely exotic question considering the lack of scoring lately. But I really can't remember the last HR...maybe it was Jones.

Dang I wish I could just root for some other team. Just can't though.

It appearing as though the Cubs will never score another run, I'm saying we should go get Wilson. I'm not talking about trading for Craig. I'm talking about reanimating Hack. (The Pads seem to have done it with Vinny Castilla, after all.) But even then, one of Hack's ghastly grey limbs would surely fall off as he tried to strech a double into a triple down 5-0, and he'd go on the 60-day DL (dead list).

Still, I'm all for it, if only to see one Cub, dead, alive, or undead, who can HIT THE BALL.

First, it takes a special kind of stupid to take a struggling offense and then bench Matt Murton - about the only guy on the team who has been able to hit his weight.

Take a note Dusty: if you want to try and shake-up the a struggling offense, why not try benching one of the 7 players who are actually slumping?

Second, can we maybe get someone to teach any of our middle infielders how to cover 2nd on a stolen base? Neifi, Hairston, and Cedeno have all screwed it up over the past week. With both Neifi and Hairston not being in a position to tag the runner today, and both Neifi and Cedeno not knowing how to either catch the ball or back up the throw a couple days ago. I know, this might actually involve having one of the coaches actually get off their asses for a second, but come on!

Third, this team is playing like they want to lose. Absolutely no heart, no energy. I'm glad to see Dusty is shoring up his baseball strategery by being a such a good players manager, making sure his team stays focused and all.

I wonder what Dave Kingman is doing these days. Maybe he could play a little 1st and take a few hacks.

...*stretch* a double into a triple, Mr. English Major takes a fall.

"Second, can we maybe get someone to teach any of our middle infielders how to cover 2nd on a stolen base?"

No kidding. I really, really doubt any of that stuff is covered or addressed. It can't be.

what is it?

0 runs in the last 25 innings.
1 run in the last 38 innings.
2 runs in the last 45 innings.
3 runs in the last 56 innings.

Which of those is the worst?

Or is it the fact the Cubs have been outscored 46-4 the last SEVEN games.

Does anyone think we should be doing this bad just because we are minus one superstar?! Shouldn't we get at least 1 run every other game? Right now, I am missing the juiced up Sosa days

I wouldn't mind a slump like this if it would be the last of the year. But with this team and the total lack of energy for a 3rd year with Dusty we can be sure that there will be another 3 or more stretches like this before october.

If they renew Dusty's contract I am either going to a) become a white sox fan or b) start watching soccer on Telemundo

let's see here.....eric show...jim croce...grim reaper...hack wilson.....
only thing with more dead guys than this thread is the cub lineup.

is there any possibility- any at all- that the players, seeing that hendry has not yet re-upped with baker, are just laying down? and waiting for the axe to fall?

1-2 weeks ago everything was mostly fine...

now hendry sucks, baker is an idiot...and god knows NONE of these players deserve any blame.

if baker sat in the dugout and just pushed up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, b, a, select, start on his controler the cubs would have won 5 out of the last 6.

god knows the players deserve no grief for their performances. if dusty would have just patted someone on the back or made them take a dozen extra grounders all those losses would be erased.

aram's .198 average is an illusion.

matt murton not being able to do anything but get singles and walks lately has to be someone else's problem besides matt murton. he needs to ask for more 'do overs' when he dribbles an outside pitch to 2nd base insted of waiting on his pitch.

in fact, the only guy "getting it done" during the past week at the plate is 7 for 23 mr. jones...of course he's got no RBIs to show for it cuz he's joining murton in the "singles club".

cedeno, walker, pierre, and especially aram are all in the toilet hitting .240 or less the past week. dusty should tell them to get hits! what an idiot! all he has to do is tell them to get hits and he's not doing it...sigh....

Crunch...i agree with you an extent - the players are at fault.

But decisions like starting Bynum two days in a row, and making it even worse by inserting him in the 2hole in the lineup, are inexcusable. There is absolutely no reason that Bynum should ever see the top half of a lineup.

And do not come back to me with his game two nights ago - 1 for 3, a BB, and 2 SBs. Bynum is simply not a major league hitter.

"Bynum is simply not a major league hitter."

Then why did Hendry trade for him???

"now hendry sucks, baker is an idiot...and god knows NONE of these players deserve any blame."

-No, Hendry has sucked for a long time, and Dusty has always been an idiot.

"if baker sat in the dugout and just pushed up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, b, a, select, start on his controler the cubs would have won 5 out of the last 6."

-Wrong again. If Dusty did that he would received extra lives playing Contra. Which I would rather be doing than watching this disaster of a team

Manny...there is a big difference between having a player on your roster as the 25th man and starting him in the two hole.

There is absolutely no excuse for that, and you know it. Do you ever see anything wrong with something that Dusty does?

"there is a big difference between having a player on your roster as the 25th man and starting him in the two hole."

No ther is not. Not when Hednry KNOWS that Baker, just like Guillen, plays all 25 men. And we are talking about 2 starts and where he might get 200 AB"s over teh course of teh season. It is such a small fraction of what goes on, and with everyone else struggling I give him credit to trying something since Bynum had a good night teh night before.

"Do you ever see anything wrong with something that Dusty does?"

YEs, I have.

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  • video of Maddon.


    always nice that he actually tries to honestly answer questions. Does mention that he wanted to give Zastr? a chance in a meaningful spot rather than a mop-up role.

    Rob G. 5 hours 47 min ago view
  • from Muskat:

    #Cubs Maddon: "I'm not going to make up an excuse for why I did what I did. It has nothing to do with lack of confidence" ... "It was the right thing to do today based on what I saw, what their lineup looked like and Rob Z.'s availability." #Cubs

    Rob G. 5 hours 53 min ago view
  • http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0561339391889382475-4

    Hammel not particularly understanding of getting pulled out...as he should. Be curious what Maddon had to say. All I can think of is is keeping arms fresh and maybe wanting to see if Zastr? is worth considering for the playoffs and how he'd do against the Dodgers.

    Rob G. 5 hours 58 min ago view
  • great defense

    Heyward, Russell, Baez, Bryant, Ross in particular...although Bryant's a bit hard to judge with all the positions.

    Fowler and Rizzo in the top half of the NL for their positions as well (per fangraphs)...Zobrist right at the halfway cutoff for 2b in the NL.

    I'm sure some luck is involved too, but the Cubs and Maddon knew what they were doing.

    Rob G. 6 hours 9 min ago view
  • If all the starters have FIP > ERA, is that luck or good defense?

    Craig A. 6 hours 21 min ago view
  • #Cubs plummet to 19-5 in August.

    Fun with FIP

    • J. Hammel   3.07 ERA/4.27 FIP (3.68 FIP last year)
    • J. Arrieta     2.62 ERA/3.05 FIP (2.35 FIP last year)
    • J. Lester     2.81 ERA/3.67 FIP (2.92 FIP last year)
    • K. Hendricks  2.19 ERA/3.37 FIP (3.36 FIP last year)
    • J. Lackey     3.41 ERA/3.72 FIP (3.57 FIP last year with Cards)
    Rob G. 6 hours 46 min ago view
  • zastyryzryzryzny put in 3.2ip 1h 0bb 3k

    he's great when his control is "on"...problem is it's rarely "on" consistently. he could vault up the cubs prospect list if he ever gets better with that aspect of his game.

    crunch 7 hours 26 min ago view
  • JD's take was just trying to get in a lefty to better deal with mostly lefty Dodgers lineup.

    My second thought was what you came up with. My first thought was he was trying to light a fire under Hammel.

    Jackstraw 8 hours 38 min ago view
  • Maybe he was trying to spare him another brutal road start? NY, Colorado...

    billybucks 8 hours 55 min ago view
  • joe got a pitcher up for hammel at nearly the 1st sign of trouble in the 3rd...pulled after 2.1

    not injured and though it wasn't his day so far he wasn't looking like a pure disaster.

    really short leash on him. zastryznzryzryny in.

    crunch 8 hours 59 min ago view
  • Russell and Soler can attest that Urias has a pretty good curve/slider - two big strikeouts looking to get out of that jam in the first.

    Eric S 9 hours 44 min ago view
  • Classic Scully - great stuff.

    Thank God we'll still have Hawk next season. (cricket cricket cricket)

    Eric S 14 hours 35 min ago view
  • Here's Scully's call on Bryant's 10th-inning homer:

    "And it's a long fly ball, a mean fly ball, and a gone fly ball."

    VirginiaPhil 15 hours 49 min ago view
  • When the Cubs were the old, hundred-year Cubs, one bad hop did not undo their opponents.

    VirginiaPhil 15 hours 52 min ago view
  • If only he was clutcher. More clutcher.

    Jackstraw 17 hours 11 min ago view
  • cubs win...bryant with 7HR in his last 8 games.

    crunch 1 day 23 min ago view