Game 23 Thread / Cubs @ Cardinals (2 of 3)


early thread!

all else equal, i would think that blanco goes today (zambrano plus day game after night game).

i would also think that theriot gets a "day off" from his new position after playing SS two days in a row and an error last night. Assuming Jones doesn't get yet another day on the bench, that leaves this grossness

Theriot 2B

If I were Lou, I would make sure that the days when Barrett is sitting that Theriot is at SS....keeps the lineup from being extra bad (i.e. blanco AND cedturis), and hedges your defense a little bit (blanco better, you may afford theriot)

that being said, i'm not sold on izturis' D at this point/....lots of mistakes at this point.

In other news, Demp claims not to be an idiot:

"I'm not an idiot -- I know [Pujols is] on deck," Dempster said. "But at the same time, I'm trying to focus on pitches to [Chris] Duncan. With one swing, he can tie the game up there. If I had to face Albert, I'd worry about that then."

Click here for the full story.

you mean baseball players are capable of thought and know about baseball without a manager "making" them good?


and no that's not a swipe...players just get the short end of the credit too often. its just too damn romantic to believe, just like in too many sports movies, one man can come in and make professionals good by screaming/pepping/slapass with them.

popcorn is $3, but the tears of pride are free with the price of admission.

Crunch has become a poet.


Soriano 7
Theriot 6
Lee 3
Ramirez 5
Floyd 9
DeRosa 4
Jones 8
Blanco 2
Zambrano 1

Miles 6
Duncan 7
Pujols 3
Rolen 5
Edmonds 8
Spiezio 9
Kennedy 4
Molina 2
Wainwright 1

intelligence of the player
seen on the street
arrest thy conviction
that hotdogs are healthy meat

seen in the park
the player doth show
with pujols on deck
a lead dempster will not blow

to the man with the book
and the man with the ball
most players may be dumb shmucks
but steve stone knows it all

Beat me to it, Wes.

MLB audio today! I hate you FOX!

heh...i actually wrote a poem reply as a joke but something sent it to moderation.

...or i accidently didnt post...thought i did.


Pie on the bench after his first HR?

(small sample-size alert)

Pie-- five-game hitting streak:

7-19 (.368), 2 2B, 1 HR, 0 BB, 2K (SLG: .632)

And for the season against RHP:

30 AB, .300/.323/.567 (.890)

Let the kid play!


i am with you. i think that the team, as a whole, plays better with pie in center. both the left and right fielders play better. the pitcher feels better. i think he should just play and stay in center.

Sitting Pie is the dumbest thing I have seen this year. FU LOU!

You'll have that when you have FIVE FREAKING OUTFIELDERS.

They've all got to play. Sorry bout your luck, Chad.

If the zillion-dollar zero-HR LFer would have bothered to run, Cubs would be on the board already.

interesting question by girardi. is edmonds a hof'er? in my view, he has to be. he plays cf better than anybody outside of andruw.

sweet pick off by theriot.

Can someone explain something to me?

Pie has a hot bat, and seems to be a bit of a spark plug for our monster winning streak we have going. Why sit him (especially when Barrett is already not playing) during a Zambrano start?
I think we all agree that our success as a team starts with our ace Big Z, we need to put our best lineup (offensively AND defensively) out there to give him some support and confidence.

No excuse not to have Pie in there. None.

jones is better than pie right no offensively...

when did Pie become god's gift to baseball?

he's got a homer, a triple, and 2 of his 3 doubles were singles stretched via his legs.

a couple good D plays.

i mean, great...better than junk and the kid's got a future, but he's not doing it all with regularity and consistency.

Crunch what are you talking about? Pie has been the 2nd best outfielder on this team for the past week. You are acting like we have some large sample size of his play. He's been regularly and consistently pretty damned good since his call up. He's had multiple hard hit balls for outs--product outs.

agree completely with crunch. jock has already had a great defensive play in cf and also hit a bullet of a double. pie is and will be a good option, but jock deserves his at bats.

jock's last ab proves my point. well done jock. against a lefty too.

Gods gift? Didnt say that.

But, when you have the most athletic guy in the whole Cubs organization playing really well defensively, and more importantly offensively, you ride it out. Especially when he and Theriot have been the major spark plugs.

However, Jones just had a 3 run double and apparently Lou and You are smarter than I!

I am happy now, go Cubs.

don't think for one minute i am smarter than you. just think jock deserves his at bats and plays hard. we cub fans give him a bit of a hard time.

3 run triple btw

Jones should always be in the starting lineup against the Cardinals, because they didn't get the memo about pitching him low inside. They work the outside part of the plate against him, just like any other lefthanded hitter.

Against StL in 2006, Jones's numbers were 314/385/557. StL is supposed to be a smart team, but not in this case. Cincinnati has curveballer Arroyo and others who handle Jones pretty well. Against Cincy Jones was 217/245/543 in 2006, and his problems have persisted this year.

no walks for zee.

A sweep on Sunday night television would be fantastic...

Uneventful inning from Ohman and Cherry were nice.


Virginia Phil,

I have not always bought into players that perform well against particular teams, I would rather break it down to the individual pitcher(s).

However, I do understand your point. Keep it up jock strap jones, so maybe we can trade ya!

"we cub fans give him a bit of a hard time."

YOU give him a hard time.

I like him and realize that if Floyd goes down, there is no other LH power hitter on the team.

He ain't going anywhere until at least the deadline, imo.


Z back on track, no walks!

reports of jacque's demise are greatly exaggerated! i like the guy but this could be fuel on the trade fire for him.

hill goes tomorrow night for the sweep against 1-4 kip wells!

bears got a steal with greg olsen at #31!

bulls rocking those punk heat(s)

a great weekend for chicago sports so far, get to finish off the heat, cards and draft tomorrow....

MURDA: "No excuse not to have Pie in there. None."

HEre are reasons you might consider (and the manager beat you to it):

1. Pie does not know the pitchers yet and is still a bit overmatched.

2. JJones still is a power bat from the left side. Lou wants every advantage at the plate. He is going with career averages, on this and likes JJ. Pie is not a home run hitter.

3. Jacque CAN play CF, too. Not with the speed or arm perhaps, but he is average or a little above as you saw today.

4. He will HAVE to get playing time anyway to improve his marketability if HEndry DOES want to make a trade. Just how it goes, MURDA. This has been discussed here.

5. Lou will play Pie as a spot starter and as a defnesive replacement in late innings. I have no problem with this and I do not think we're "worse off" having JJones play unless his hitting goes into the toilet. The, I'd say, time for more of a semi-permanent switch.

was pie's catch of rolen in the 9th actually over the wall as gameday indicated??

break up the team....they've won 3 in a row

FWIW: Angelo traded the 33rd pick to San Diego. Stay tuned...

"was pie’s catch of rolen in the 9th actually over the wall as gameday indicated??"

Nope. Near the wall on T.V. Running one-hand catch. Rocky Cherries Garcia looked good today 1-2-3.

If you want Pie to play everyday, he can't be with the big club as it's currently aligned. I'm sorry. That's how it works.

Rookies who aren't hitting .275 don't get to play when veterans are. Especially since before today, we still weren't scoring. If we were scoring 6 a game, we'd put his defense in there. Jacque made a couple of really nice plays today, and he swung it well.

"Fuel on the trade fire" - - Great! So be it! Won't it be nice for once to negotiate from strength if it turns out Hendry has five OF guys on fire and turning in respectable D, fighting for jobs, etc. Its all good.

So tomorrow night's game is on ESPN?

yes, Orange, unfortunately that means that we will be subjugated to the illogical and incoherent babblings of joe morgan, with jon miller on xanax trying to deal with him.

being out of chicago radio area, what should i put on my speakers during the game instead of those buffoons?? suggestions????

I tell ya what, if you have an ESPN radio affiliate nearby, I really like to listen to Dan Shulman and Soup Campbell.

Sometimes Soup has a tendency to go on a old man tangent, but Dan Shulman is just about as good as it gets for my money.

i do like shulman......didn't realize they were the ones doing the radio for sunday night.....done and done! thanks wes

Hell yes!

I knew this team could score some runs. It's great to see what an Izturis-less Cub team can do.

Great game today. I almost pee'd my pants when Duncan did a nose dive into the fence out there in left. That was some funny stuff right there. Nice game for Z and JJ. I am so sunburnt, the RF bleachers in Busch are rough in the afternoon. Let's get the sweep tomorrow night.

Should be....LF bleachers are rough, I was in RF on Friday.

i didnt realize soriano had 9 doubles...well, 8 coming into today.

dlee with his *13th* double today.

I have a question about the "double" (I think it was Soriano's) when Duncan crashed into the gate and it opened as the ball came out of his glove (I think it just struck his glove).

The ball clearly rolled out of the playing field into the bullpen ground past the gateway. Isn't a ball that goes beyond the field boundaries some sort of ground rule hit (HR or double)?

Isn't that like an OF who almost catches the ball and it falls behind the OF wall? Those are HR's, no? When it's out of play but hits the field first isn't that a ground rule double? Did it hit the field first, making it in play? I saw absolutely no discussion of this by the umps. Am I missing something?


In the ground rules for Busch Stadium, it states that a: "fair ball bounding into field boxes, bleachers, bullpens or going through or under fences - TWO BASES. "

Probably didn't need to discuss it since he ended up there anyway.

Thanks Wes...the only reason it bugged me is that I think it was Thom B. said something about him expecting Soriano to have made third base on that play, but if he had they would have send him back to second if it was a GR double. That was just before Pujols got Sori out at 3rd on Theriots at bat.

(goes to show that when they win, it's not much of an issue)

We need more winning games with non-issues!

How sweet does a sweep sound?

...And I hate to be haughty, but Hill v. Kip Wells.

Josh is really pissing me off.

I actually tried to add something positive and constructive today (unlike yesterday, when I was downright offensive) to his awful, worthless blog and he deleted it anyway.

What a cockmonger.

Green Lantern:

being out of chicago radio area, what should i put on my speakers during the game instead of those buffoons?? suggestions????

Two ideas: 1. Leave on parachat audio, or 2. The Shin's new album.

Josh is really pissing me off.

I actually tried to add something positive and constructive today (unlike yesterday, when I was downright offensive) to his awful, worthless blog and he deleted it anyway.

What a cockmonger.

mines too men, but i was really ofensive since he was ofensive with zambrano

just noticed...the cubs, cardinals, and astros are all tied for last place.

BREW CREW AND PIRATES DOMINATION FOR THE BATTLE FOR 1ST AND 2ND!@#!@#!@# guys ready to talk about the june draft or what cuz this season is DONE.

So here's some fun numbers in small sample sizes.

1. Maybe he's coming around a little bit:

Soriano-- 9-game hitting streak (pre AND post hammy):

11-34, 5 2B, 2 BB, 9 K = .324/.361/.471 (.832)

2. When Matt Murton gets 4 or more PAs in a game:

11-31, 2 2B, 3 BB, 6 K = .355/.412/.419 (.831)

3. Zambrano's last three starts:

18.1 IP, 20 H, 8 ER, 4 HR, 8 BB, 15 K (1-0, 3.93 ERA)

the 1st place brewers...14-9 record...

107 RS - 112 RA

oh yeah, early baseball! woo!

Careful crunch, you're turning all Dayn Perry on us.

"In the ground rules for Busch Stadium, it states that a: “fair ball bounding into field boxes, bleachers, bullpens or going through or under fences - TWO BASES. ”

That's all great but Soriano should have been standing on third when he found out that his hit was a ground rule double. He trotted to first watching what he thought would be a homerun and then jogged into second when Duncan crashed into the gate and ended up on his ass. Just because the ground rules said he'd be on second, doesn't mean he shouldn't have been on third before the call.

As far as Thom B. What a douche. Referring to the Post Dispatch article with the headline "No Tinker, No Evers, No Chance" he kept calling Tinker, Tinkers.

You'd think someone, even a low grade moron like Thom, who had announced for the Cubs, would know the name of one of their HOF shortstops. Especially someone mentioned in the second most famous baseball poem of all-time. (Casey At The Bat #1)

haha...i was just checking the standings and got a kick outta chc/hou/stl all being in last while mil/pitt were in 1st/2nd...

wasnt until a minute or so later i notice they were in first, 5 games over .500, and has given up 5 more runs than they've scored.

also, crunch, we've scored the most runs in the division, and given up the fewest, and we're tied for last...but not for long.

fontenot hit another homer tonite...played SS, too...

getting work at 2nd/SS...getting on in age...cedeno not getting much better...

theriot's little unappreciated buddy could be joining him at some point if he can extend this and show he's more than just an average 2nd baseman.

Fair enough, tbone. I agree with your assessment of Soriano needing to be on third. He thought Duncan caught it. So did I, actually.

I wholly disagree with your unfounded rant on Thom Brennaman, though.

4 homers, btw...2/3 night (single)...hitting .306/.360...also had some work at 3rd this year, too...dunno how that went or if it was in games or just working out there pregame.

not that im a huge fan...he's just someone that's been on a lotta TCR readers radars for years.

On of my friends in St. Louis told me the Post Dispatch messed up Tinker as Tinkers once or twice in that lovely journalistic endeavor they produced.

It's not spelled correctly in the caption of a picture accompanying said story on the PD's website.

It is spelled right throughout the story on the website. Just for your information.

fontenot hit another homer tonite…played SS, too…

getting work at 2nd/SS…getting on in age…cedeno not getting much better…

theriot’s little unappreciated buddy could be joining him at some point if he can extend this and show he’s more than just an average 2nd baseman.


I'd take Fontenot over Ward.

They'd probably hit close to the same thing and even if Fontenot can't play 2B, SS, 3B, LF very well, at least he can play them.

Then Cliff Floyd or Mark DeRosa become your back-up first basemen.

This move also saves the Cubs about 600 K in salary.

Crunch....thanks for coming through on the it's early garbage we heard during the Brewers series. Everyone here who are fans of the Cubs knows that the Astros a team in our own division always starts off poor only to pass us in the standings by June/July.

.....and 2003 when the Marlins started out really poor only to lock up the wild card. 10% of the season or 75%...if you are within 5 games of first you are by no means out of it. I'm very comfortable with the team starting slow, my only problem with it this year is that April was all against our division (except SD and ATL).

May is shaping up to be an interesting month with a 7 game swing against Philly (who is starting to put it together) and the NY Mets. Then a 6 game trip out west @ SD and LA.

Lastly...can anyone begin to explain to me the awful interleague schedule for the NL Central? The Cubs only play 4 series against the AL, and two of those are with the Sox. The Pirates are seemingly playing AL teams all of June themselves. I know we are the Big East of baseball but this is an awful's time to start getting realignment taken care of.

I second you Tbone, Brenaman is trying to be a poor man's Bob Costas.

Yesterday he said that Dlee's season ended last year due to be hitting by a pitch. I know it would hard to remember every player's injury, but he was the batting champion from 2005.

oops I forgot to change my handle from the cards blog yesterday.


jim edmonds life partner... oops I forgot to change my handle from the cards blog yesterday.


"This move also saves the Cubs about 600 K in salary."

Uh, not with a guaranteed contract it doesn't. says tonights cubs/cards game is canceled because of a tradgy? anyone know what happened??

One the Cardinal relievers, Josh Hancock, was killed in an auto accident early this morning.

That's just awful.


that is terrible. another cards death the day of a cubs game.....weird.

do the cubs not need guzman to start this week now? keep him in AAA another week i say.

"do the cubs not need guzman to start this week now? keep him in AAA another week i say."

Awful about Hancock. That kind of stuff happens, but it is horrible.

I was wondering the same about whether or not this delays a need for a 5th starter.

Josh Hancock's line from BP 2007:

"Hancock bounced back from an injury-plagued 2005 to post a nice K/BB ratio in middle relieft. A starter in over 80% of his professional appearances prior to last year, one would like to think he'd get one more shot at a rotation spot before he's pigeon-holed for life. Not that it's a bad life to have."


RIP Josh Hancock 1978-2007

Hancock pitched yesterday, that is truly sad.

Brutal. Condolences to the Hancock family and the Cardinals.

Crassly shifting to the relatively unimportant world of basemall matters, I say that Guzman's appearance be delayed another week -- especially if Pie was to be the odd man out. Maybe with another week to prove himself, Pie could force Cedeno to be viewed as the expendable one.

cubs definitely do not need a fifth starter this time through now, I assume they're happy to have Guzman start once more in Iowa since he hasn't been great:

At Pirates:
Monday (tomorrow) -- Hill goes on 5 days rest
Tues -- Lilly goes on 5 days rest
Weds -- Marquis goes on regular (4 days) rest
Thurs day off
Nats at home:
Fri -- Zambrano goes on 5 days rest
Sat -- Hill goes on regular rest
Sun -- Lilly goes on regular rest
Mon day off again
Pirates at home:
Tues -- Marquis goes on 5 days rest
Wed -- Zambrano goes on regular rest
Thu -- Hill goes on regular rest
At Phillies:
Fri -- Lilly goes on regular rest
Sat May 12 -- 5th starter needed!
Sun -- Marquis goes on regular rest

so the cubs should/will get guzman on schedule to go Sat May 12 (which is basically the same schedule he's on now, just having one start in AAA instead of MLB). only question is do they want/need another pitcher again.....i'd say they really don't have to since the starting pitching has been so good, and their strange run of extra inning games has ended.

i'm going to philly for the sat/sun games......get to see guzman and

Good work GL. WIth the way our top 4 pitchers are throwing, I am happy rolling with them through May 12.

The question, then, is whether Miller will be ready by 5/12, eliminating the need for a replacement 5th starter in the first place?

I think the Cubs still want to break up Hill/Lilly so he may make that start anyway.

I have to agree though, that we should have 4 starters with the way 3 big three have been pitching and Zambrano went last night.

“This move also saves the Cubs about 600 K in salary.”

Uh, not with a guaranteed contract it doesn’t.



Good catch.

I meant...uh...I mean...if they'd have done this before the season started. And not signed Ward at all. Yeah, that's what I meant.

Hello! Good Site! Thanks you! aoolozojsq

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  • if they dont win at least 130 games this season they can pack it all up, turn wrigley into a concert venue, and move the damn team to san jose.


    crunch 9 hours 27 min ago view
  • I see where catcher Cael Brockmeyer was promoted to Tennessee a couple of days ago, to fill a roster spot vacated by David Freitas, recently promoted to Iowa. Caratini is the other catcher at Tennessee.

    VirginiaPhil 9 hours 30 min ago view
  • They've already clinched a minimum winning percentage of .607 for the month, and that's only if they lose the last 2 games. If they win both, they can push that up to .679. So much for "stumbling" in May. When you're winning over 60% of your games, you're doing baseball well.

    John Beasley 10 hours 44 min ago view
  • If the best walk-off hit possible is a solo home run in a zero-zero game--Eloy did it tonight!

    (But maybe it's a grand slam when your team is down three? He didn't do that.)

    Number eight for Jimenez. His team is 31-17. Yesterday they scored 17 runs against Lansing. Two weeks ago it was 15 runs against the same team. This is a nice team, South Bend. The Cubs must have had a good draft last year.

    Tonight the pitchers were Sands, Brooks and Effross.

    VirginiaPhil 10 hours 51 min ago view
  • RIP Zoobrest.

    crunch 12 hours 25 min ago view
  • He'll be fine. He's not some wimpy young pup.

    Old and Blue 12 hours 54 min ago view
  • In all seriousness the Cubs have the fewest amount of games played in the NL which means they're gonna be facing quite the grind later on including 24 games in a row at the end of June and beginning of July so I hope he does get a few days off.

    johann 14 hours 50 min ago view
  • Meh. He only got one hit today. Maybe give him a rest?

    Old and Blue 15 hours 26 min ago view
  • 34-14...awww yeah.

    crunch 16 hours 23 min ago view
  • Good thing the Cubs have five left-handed batters in the lineup. Velasquez is just tearing thru the righties [edit - doesn't seem to faze Bryant!]

    Eric S 17 hours 44 min ago view
  • ben zobrist gets to ride up front tonight cause he's a good guy at sports.

    cubs with a 5 run lead and a lackey shutout through 3ip \m/

    crunch 18 hours 18 min ago view
  • HAGSAG: I have not seen Joe Nathan out on the field, but he is supposedly at the UAPC. 

    Arizona Phil 21 hours 14 min ago view
  • ERIC S: Best outing I've ever seen from Manny Rondon, and I've seen most of his outings since the Cubs got him from the Angels. 

    M. Rondon is competing with six others (Dylan Cease, Bryan Hudson, Jose Paulino, Pedro Silverio, Jesus Castillo, and Erling Moreno) for a starting slot at Eugene, and (as you can probably tell from the EXST box scores)  the competition has gotten fierce over the last couple of weeks, With the exception of Moreno, the Eugene SP candidates have upped their game lately, and M. Rondon's outing yesterday was especially impressive/dominating. 

    Arizona Phil 21 hours 16 min ago view
  • E-MAN: Pierce Johnsion was mixing a 92-94 MPH fastball with a plus-change-up AND curve, and he threw strike-after-strike-after-strike with all three of his pitches. I believe that was the best command and pitch-efficiency I've ever seen from Johnson, who often pitches from behind in the count and issues too many walks.  

    Of course now he has to avoid a recurrence of the lat strain (whch he has had previously in his career) as well as all of the other miscellaneous physical problems he's had over the last three years (hamstring, quad, back, etc).  

    Arizona Phil 21 hours 26 min ago view
  • PHIL: Any movement on P. Johnsons pitches? What was his "out" pitch? I know he was working on a 4th pitch, so wondering what he is looking like these days. Thanks.

    The E-Man 22 hours 9 min ago view
  • AZ Phil, has Nathan showed up in Mesa yet? Thanks.

    Hagsag 1 day 2 hours ago view