Game 31 / Pirates @ Cubs (2 of 3)

Game Chat Tom Gorzelanny vs. Jason Marquis Lineups:
Duffy CF Soriano LF
Sanchez 2B Theriot SS
Bay LF Lee 1B
Doumit C Ramirez 3B
Nady RF Murton RF
LaRoche 1B Barrett C
Bautista 3B DeRosa 2B
Kelly SS Jones CF
Gorzelanny P Marquis P
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Comments

Bout the best lineup we could hope for. Wish the bloody Cards and Brewers would stop winning.

well, the team does have a right handed CF'r...allegedly.

theriot returns to SS for the groundball pitcher...

whatever, no one's a scrub.

Why not start Pie tonight. JJ cant hit a lefty so if our CF is going to 0 or 1 for 4 I'd rather have it be the guy that is a gold glover.

oops scratch gold glover with potential gold glover.

Cubs/Astros rainout rescheduled for June 11th.

Be a nice 17 straight game stretch.

We're not playing Pie, great. Send him the fuck down to AAA and let him play everyday. This is so crazy. When Dusty didn't play AAAA Murton and AAAA Cedeno you guys go nuts. Now we have a kid who will be a star and he can't get a sniff. FU LOU!!!!

I still don't understand the animosity towards jj. He's seeing the ball as well as any of our bats at the moment. I am pretty sure that we will see Pie in cf quite a lot going forward.

whoops should a have read:

"Now we have a kid who will be a star and he can’t get a sniff. But you guys could care less. FU LOU!!!!"

Chad, I think you need a long walk and some camomile tea.

It's unbelievably tiring to keep going over this and if you don't get the difference, you should have paid closer attention to the arguments back then.

But yes Pie should be playing more often whether it be in AAA or the majors. It's a shame there's actual talent in front of him though unlike Neifi, Womack, Angel Pagan, Todd Hollandsworth, Freddie bynum and on and on and on.

This Gorzelanny kid looks promising for them. Any intel on him?

one scouting report on him...

http://www2.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/players...

him and Snell give them two plus arms in their rotation and Duke isn't awful.

http://chicagocubsonline.com/archives/2007/05...

ha, Baker and Sutcliffe calling the May 14th Mets/Cubs game.

Oh the fun....

Thanks Rob. If his flaws are endurance and nailing the first pitch, there don't seem to be insurmountable issues for him. Hope we are patient and get his pitch count up.

It’s unbelievably tiring to keep going over this and if you don’t get the difference, you should have paid closer attention to the arguments back then.

I just heard The Cubs offered Schmidt 3/44!

I still maintain after three years that Mad Chad = Big Green Lou Ferrigno.

If you had to put your money on it, which team do you think Baker will manage next. Is it too easy to say the Nats?

Chad,

When Dusty wasnt playing Cedeno and Murton he was playing crap players like Neifi and Hollandsworth in their place. Pie is behind 3 quality players in Floyd, JJ, and Murton. Its on Hendry to demote Pie and according to Levine today it will probably happen on Thursday.

What is Levine's basis for that chifan?

The same stuff we have been talking about here. He mentioned Thursday because it is a dayoff before a road trip. He echoed AZ Phil in saying either Pagan or Walker would be brought up. I wonder how good of a defensive outfielder Walker is because Pagan's defense is appaling for a guy of his skill sets.

Probably ends up hurting us defensively. We may find that the big murt gets more ab's though.

We’re not playing Pie, great. Send him the fuck down to AAA and let him play everyday.

Since you brought it up, Chad, like I said more than once when we send someone like Pie or Cedeno back down to Iowa they probably aren't going to get better at anything. More likely they'll just get hurt.

Take Cedeno for example. We sent him down Sunday. So he gets his first PA Tuesday and walks....AND SPRAINS HIS ANKLE STEPPING ON FIRST BASE. He's out of the game in the first inning and didn't play today. Fontenot was at SS.

chifan, my point is that we were benching young crap in favor of old crap. We are now actually harming the future of this team by stunting the growth of an actual good player. That is real cause for outrage. If Ronnie Cedeno didn't play, who cares he suck/sucks/will suck same with Murton...

oh wait, you guy think Matt Murton is a good player.

Nevermind.

Also, I remember us talking about Heilman coming to the Cubs this winter. He has been immense for the Mets this year. Pitched a superb inning against the old people's home today.

Cwtp is right. Can't remember who wrote the article but someone compared Pie's minor league stats to comparable players and he came out quite favourably. Pie will benefit from being in the Majors even if he doesn't start. Talking to soriano, watching how pitchers set up batsmen and learning the swagger can't be done at aaa.

No Izzy!!! WOO!!!!!

JJ starting vs LHP...SHOCKING I tell ya!!!

at least he's batting eighth....

it was either Pie or jones and neither does well vs lefties. I agree with whoever said we should go with the glove then, shame Lou doesn't.

Rob G.:
"it was either Pie or jones and neither does well vs lefties. I agree with whoever said we should go with the glove then, shame Lou doesn’t."

Lou does not like youngsters....:)

Rob, at least Pie can leg out a tapper

Rob, at least Pie can leg out a tapper

I love the idea that because Pie is fast, he can get to every fly ball hit in the outfield, he can beat out any tapper he hits, he can steal any base any time, etc.

It is amazing how good Pie is.

The key to getting Jones out is to throw the ball in the dirt. He swings at those pitches every time. Instead of a 3-0 count he hit a weak groundball on a 1-2 pitch with the bases loaded to end the inning. Who said he was seeing the ball well?

well last week he was....

"So he gets his first PA Tuesday and walks….AND SPRAINS HIS ANKLE STEPPING ON FIRST BASE. He’s out of the game in the first inning and didn’t play today."

If we knew that was going to happen, we should have sent him down earlier. Hopefully it takes 4-5 months to heal

Dave Roberts is going to be out 3-5 weeks to remove some bone spurs...time to pawn JJ off on them.

We'll take Tim Lincecum, thanks!!!

GENTLEMEN: I was on my way back from work listening to Pat & Ron. Can someone please tell me why, with 2 outs, DLEE did not score on Barrett's bloop double?

I was screaming at the radio.

Neither of the announcers mentioned anything about it. Just - "he held up at 3rd". BUT THERE WERE 2 Outs.

Was this a Quade thing? Did he not know how many outs there were?

Please, someone...

yeah I didnt get that either...

this will be painful and eeirly reminscient of last night....

Chad--
“Now we have a kid who will be a star and he can’t get a sniff. But you guys could care less. FU LOU!!!!”
_______________

Chad, I think you're off on this one. They couldn't care any less. You, on the other hand, clearly could care less.

at least it was quick - i think JJ's trying to set the single series record for runners LOB.

Barrett's bloop double was in really shallow right. BB said he likely would have gone if the throw had gone to second to try and get Barrett.

I have eight left on base by Jones tonight.

Marquis' performance aside, this was a frustrating game to watch.

Wow! That Marquis guy can pitch!

GREAT game by Marquis...out f'ing standing!! Woo!!!

5-1 with an ERA at about 1.70?? WOW!!!

So far Marquis looks like the greatest signing in baseball history by Hendry. I truly I hope I continue to being wrong about this one. While it is early, the returns of marquis have been great.

Man, we needed that performance to get us to forget about last night. if somehow they blew it late in this game, it could of gotten ugly, but Marquis righted the ship.

What a gem by Marquis. Excelente.

Damn good thing we got the shut out, because we cannot string together hits.

Murton, by the way, again showed he can hit when he starts games.

Did we play yesterday?

Game score (I think...did it in my not-so-good-at-math head) of 86 for Marquis; this makes his performance, according to this metric, tied for the best game in the National League this year. And boy did we need it. Big win.

What a great game. Marquis's line, for those interested.

9 IP, 3 H, 0 ER, 0 R, 0 BB, 5 SO.

*When Dusty wasnt playing Cedeno and Murton he was playing crap players like Neifi and Hollandsworth in their place. Pie is behind 3 quality players in Floyd, JJ, and Murton. I*

Which of those 3 are quality players? Murton, maybe. JJ can't run as fast as Pie and Floyd is a bump in the grass away from a major injury if his history is any indicator.

At least if Pie left 8 guys on base in one game I'd understand it because he's young.

I'll keep saying this until someone hears it: Jacques Jones frequently looks as though he has absolutely no idea how to swing a bat. Tonight was a perfect example.

sportsline has JJ leaving 9 men on tonight. i know he left at least 3 last night. nice work. as close to an automatic out against LHP as there is in MLB (pitchers included)!

"this will be painful and eeirly reminscient of last night…."

EAT IT eli!!!!

Floyd has got to play until he gets hurt. When he is healthy, the guy can hit. Use him until he gets hurt. Cause, really, if he gets hurt coming off of the bench, its a waste. Play him, defense be damned, and let him hit.

Not one of you has called out the PINHEAD DeRosa for not leaving his bat on his shoulder for ball four in the 8th!

He has done this twice before...At the point that the team is struggling to score anything, you HAVE to take a pitch with a struggling pitcher and bases loaded and a 3-1 count!!!

eat nuthin, e-man, i was referring to Jones' AB when he predictably failed - again.

eli18: Oh - gotcha. Sorry. Now THAT makes sense.

I thought you meant they were going to lose.

"Geoff Jenkins homered and drove in the go-ahead run in the eighth and the Brewers beat the Washington Nationals 3-1 Wednesday to cap their best homestand in 15 years at 9-1."

And, who would think that little Ryan Theriot is the best clutch hitter on the team?

Also, what is this hitting instructor doing??

Show of hands, whose sick and tired of free-swingers?

*raises hand*

Seriously, much more of this and Jacque will find himself on the bench. Pie can do what Jacque has been doing at the plate, plus Pie can play a ton better defense.

Oh... and who remembers all the pissing and moaning when the Cub's signed Marquis?

"And, who would think that little Ryan Theriot is the best clutch hitter on the team?"

Umm....no such thing as clutch, and ummm....me.

Is it still too early to think that there really may be something to Rothschild finding a flaw in Marquis delivery during the off-season? I mean it was probably on Larry's recommendation that Hendry signed the guy.

This present Cubs rotation projects to be right up there with our 2003 rotation. 19 quality starts in 31 games so far..

"Oh… and who remembers all the pissing and moaning when the Cub’s signed Marquis?"

I was not one of those...

But its still early.

Rynox (May 8th, 11:47am):
We’ll see 4 sub 3.00 ERA pitchers in two days. Then, Maholm and Z both above 5.00. Something’s gotta give. Could this be the “law of averages” series? Maybe.

So much for that theory.

"Rynox — May 9, 2007 @ 8:53 pm
Oh… and who remembers all the pissing and moaning when the Cub’s signed Marquis? "

I wasn't jumping up and down, but I didn't have a problem with it. I figured, "we gotta run someone out there every five days, right? Might as well be him." Not to mention, I was happy to see a fellow Hebrew play for the Cubs. So, a member of my tribe was a member of my team, so to speak.

"Horatio — May 9, 2007 @ 8:54 pm
“And, who would think that little Ryan Theriot is the best clutch hitter on the team?”

Umm….no such thing as clutch, and ummm….me. "

Nice contradiction.

Maine's ERA "up" to 1.79 tonight. This means Marquis after tonight will be tied w/Hudson for #2 in NL ERA.

1. Penny - 1.39
2. Hudson/Marquis - 1.70
3. Rich Hill! - 1.73

Woops, that means Hill would rank 4th, not 3rd.

Chad: Yeah, I wasn't thrilled about it either, but I didn't think it was terrible either. I saw him as a .500 wpct workhorse at the back of the rotation.

I remember I posted the fact that LaRussa had Marquis as his #2 pitcher in 2004 (the 100+ win season), and 2005. He obviously thought highly of him.

LaRussa may be alot of things, but baseball-stupid he is not.

However, Suppan is also pitching lights-out.

Admittedly, I was very unhappy with the Marquis signing. After watching him SUCK in St. Louis for several years, and laughing at him when he did so, I thought he was the last thing the Cubs needed.

I'm happy to be wrong at this point and glad to be pulling for him. I've always liked the guy -- he's a helluva competitor and he clearly can pitch when he's right mentally. I hope he did get his problems figured out, and he continues to keep winning. I also love it how all the Cards' blogs bemoan his success. :)

It's remarkable how effective the Pirates have been using the intentional walk. They have issued several of them over the last 2 days (5 IBB? 6?), and have come out unscathed each time.

People who don't believe in "clutch hitting" should watch JJ with men on base -- he is overanxious and expands his strike zone. The definition of a choke is when the pressure of a situation makes you behave/perform differently than you normally would.

Great "clutch" don't change their approach in clutch situations -- lousy clutch hitters do. Watch JJ.

"After watching him SUCK in St. Louis for several years..."

Your statement does not bear out his stats nor the manager's opinion of him. Last year for sure. Several, is not accurate.

By the way -- Mark Holliman with 8 more shutout innings in AA tonight -- now 5-0, 0.44.

Anybody see this coming???

Yes, he probably only really SUCKed in '06. The rest of the years he was remarkably inconsistent. He'd throw seven shutout innings and then follow it with a three-inning performance where he gave up three jacks.

Marquis had a great W-L in '04 but he was pitching above his head, based on his K and BB totals and his WHIP. He actually pitched better in '05 but with a far worse W-L. Again, his inconsistency was very apparent. He looked worse in person, granted, but his performance should in no way be confused for a #2 starter.

TheRiot: .322/.385/.379

Who was our last player with a .385 OBP in the 2-hole?

7-16 and a .468 av with RISP!

DLee had these numbers in 2005, right?

"He looked worse in person, granted, but his performance should in no way be confused for a #2 starter..."

Well, Tony LaRussa obviously disagreed with your opinion. Not that I doubt your assessment, I think I'd probably side with LaRussa over yours FWIW, considering, what he's achieved with Marquis as a #2, and off the playoff-squad in his SUCK year.

JJ needs to be in the 8-hole. Less pressure, more strikes. He is like that neglected step who is always trying to impress his dad when he is around.

*meant to say Step-Child

SAW JJones on some locker-room interviews. He said, and I quote, "Everybody knows I left the whole world on base lately..."

As said above, he really is pressing. I genuinely feel bad for him. He really is trying so hard. He stood up and fessed up to the reporter...

He appears to be greatful to Lou for "sticking by him".

I have no problem with him and like him fine against RH pitchers. But enough is enough with the lefties! Jeesh!

Also, let's not get crazy here. Ted Lilly and Jason Marquis are not Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux. They will come back to earth. Let's just hope that our bats wake up. Or better yet, let's hope that Lee, Aram and Soriano all remember that they all are capable of 40 home run seasons (not necessarily this year, but they have that ability.)

holloman faced 2 legit up and coming hitters in longeria and brignac giving up only one hit to brig (longeria's single came off jones in the 9th).

hollo gave up a couple hits to greg norton including a double, but that dude's gotta hitting his mid30s by now.

jorge "who?" cortes went 5 for 5 raising his average over .400 in 80+ ab's...heh.

*Not one of you has called out the PINHEAD DeRosa for not leaving his bat on his shoulder for ball four in the 8th!*

I was screaming at the TV--does that count?

*JJ needs to be in the 8-hole. Less pressure, more strikes.*

No, he needs to be on the bench, where he can't kill any more rallies.

Just like the old adage "the ball will find the worst fielder", the rallies seem to find Jones. And people deliberately pitch around whoever is in front of him. I'd be embarrassed if I were him and he probably is. You can see the frustration when he slams the bat down.

* He is like that neglected step who is always trying to impress his dad when he is around*

Right now I'd liken him to that kid on your little league team who always struck out and who always seemed to come up with the sacks full, each and every time.

We had a kid like that. One time he got drilled in the back [THUD] with the bases loaded and instead of showing any concern for his well-being we all jumped up and down, cheering wildly, because the kid had finally driven in a run. Dude coulda taken one like Tony C. and we'd have done the same thing, I think.

chifan3887 — May 9, 2007 @ 6:10 pm
I wonder how good of a defensive outfielder Walker is because Pagan’s defense is appaling for a guy of his skill sets.

=====================

CHIFAN3887: The best defensive CFs in the organization are:

1. Felix Pie (with Cubs)
2. Sam Fuld (at AA)
3. Chris Walker (at AAA)
4. Davy Gregg (retired - on Restricted List)
5. Cliff Andersen (at EXST)

Walker is the best ballhawk, but doesn;'t have the arm of Pie or Fuld, Walker reminds me of Gary Pettis in the OF. He made an unbelievable catch in ST where he leaped high over the top of the fence and brought back a HR. He is very "athletic."

Walker is also a prolific base-stealer, and is probably one of the three fastest players in the organization (Valerio Heredia and Angel Pagan being the other two).

The problem with Walker is at the plate, where he has historically been a high K/low BB guy. He tried switch-hitting during ST to help him take advantage of his speed hitting from the left-side, but his left-handed swing (at that time) was a sort of "chop" that usually produced bouncers or (at best) infield liners. He has a much-stronger stroke with some power when he hits right-handed, but (like I said) he strikes out a lot and rarely takes a walk. I don't know if he is still switch-hitting or if he is hitting only hitting right-handed at present.

Right now I’d liken him to that kid on your little league team who always struck out and who always seemed to come up with the sacks full, each and every time.

Except that kid on your little league was not hitting .297 with an obp of .366, which is what he was hitting before the last two games.

With that said, he has no business in a lineup against a lhp.

But once again, the hate for jock jones simply does not line up with his play and value.

The problem with Walker is at the plate, where he has historically been a high K/low BB guy.

AZ Phil--

Maybe Fuld is the answer, then--if the Cubs send Pie down pending a deal for Jones.

Against a lefty starter yesterday, the Cubs started Murton, Theriot and DeRosa, meaning there was no one except Izturis and Blanco to pinch hit if Jones faced a loogie with the bases loaded. Fuld could pinch-hit for Jones and then go out to center. If you use Izturis or Blanco, you burn your only backup infielder or catcher and you don't get much of a hitter in exchange.

Fuld has always been an OBP specialist: he usually gets as many walks as strikeouts, and he's hitting .316 in AA (although with only 50-some at-bats, since he stayed at extended ST with some tweak or other).

Pagan doesn't hit much either way but especially from the right side.

Virginia Phil — May 10, 2007 @ 9:26 am
AZ Phil–

Maybe Fuld is the answer, then–if the Cubs send Pie down pending a deal for Jones.

Against a lefty starter yesterday, the Cubs started Murton, Theriot and DeRosa, meaning there was no one except Izturis and Blanco to pinch hit if Jones faced a loogie with the bases loaded. Fuld could pinch-hit for Jones and then go out to center. If you use Izturis or Blanco, you burn your only backup infielder or catcher and you don’t get much of a hitter in exchange.

Fuld has always been an OBP specialist: he usually gets as many walks as strikeouts, and he’s hitting .316 in AA (although with only 50-some at-bats, since he stayed at extended ST with some tweak or other).

Pagan doesn’t hit much either way but especially from the right side.

========================

VA PHIL: Sam Fuld was at EXST with a strained oblique suffered the last wek of ST, but he is 100% now.

For those of you who have never seen him play, Fuld is a left-handed hitting version of Ryan Theriot, except Fuld is a plus-defender in CF with an above-average arm. I believe he will definitely play in the big leagues and that he will be a quality MLB lead-off hitter, although (obviously) probably not with the Cubs.

Some people will look at Fuld and think that because he is 25 and only in AA, that he must not be any good. But that's not true. Fuld is a four-tool player (power being the one deficiency), and although he is 25, this is only his third season of pro ball. He has incurred a number of injuries over his career (shoulder, wrist, sports hernia, and oblique), but when he's healthy, he is a real pest. If Fuld and Theriot were to hit 1-2 in a batting order, they could drive an opposing pitcher insane (or at least to drink). They are like a couple of cockroaches.

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