Wood Whiffs 20…Again And Again

Recently TCR had the chance to review a DVD set commemorating great Cubs games since 1984. It seemed like something worth writing about on an off day. We’ve been looking for new fodder anyway—it gets SO monotonous covering a team that always wins. I remember the first time I came across ESPN Classic. I was clicking through the channels in a hotel room when I discovered it, and the thought that a whole cable channel could devote itself to showing historically significant games much as they were originally broadcast seemed too good to be true. After a few minutes, however, the novelty of seeing Willie Stargell and Steve Blass in a 1971 World Series game called by Curt Gowdy was outweighed by the tedium of waiting to see the game’s signature moment. In short order, I was back to grazing the cablescape in search of a Shannon Tweed movie on Cinemax. So it is with a handsomely packaged set of DVDs awkwardly entitled, “Chicago Cubs Legends Great Games Collector’s Edition” (CCLGGCE for short). The eight-disc collection was produced by A&E Home Video and Major League Baseball, and each disc presents one Cubs game from the past 23 years in its commercial-free entirety, some games more truly significant than others. The honored list includes: --6/23/84, Cubs vs. Cardinals, the “Sandberg Game” --10/2/84, Cubs vs. Padres, NLCS Game 1 --8/1/87, Cubs vs. Phillies, Dawson hits 3 HRs --10/5/89, Cubs vs. Giants, NLCS Game 2 --5/6/98, Cubs vs. Astros, Kerry Wood’s 20 Ks --9/3/98, Cubs vs. Brewers, Sosa hits #61 and #62 --8/7/04, Cubs vs. Giants, Maddux wins 300 --6/1/05, Cubs vs. Dodgers, Lee goes 5-for-5 With four of the games—the Sandberg Game, Wood’s 20 Ks, Sosa hits 62, and Maddux wins 300—the historical significance is obvious; the other four must have made it into the collection because the producers happened to access decent quality copies of the original telecasts. The thing is, even when considering the most historic games of the bunch, 95% of the action is utterly mundane. Think about it: when we talk about any “great game” we treasure having seen, e.g., Monday’s unlikely win over the Rockies, we’re usually talking about a memorable inning or two; maybe a half-inning; in some cases, just a single, dramatic at-bat. The ’84 Sandberg Game is a good example. What makes it special is Sandberg having hit two game-tying home runs against Bruce Sutter. But that was an 11-inning game lasting nearly four hours. Sandberg’s two historic ABs and the excitement that ensued probably take up four minutes of the total play time. Is it worth plunking down $39.98 for the collection so you can scan each disc for the goosebump-raising, time-capsule moment(s) in each game? I would have to say no. That is not to suggest the collection is worthless. It's fun and in many cases downright moving to step back into the Cubbie past. Sandberg’s heroics against Sutter really were magnificent, as was Wood’s nearly flawless game against the Astros. And as much as I have come to revile Sammy Sosa, I found it impossible to view that ’98 game and not be fully reminded what an awesome force he was at home plate and how he could electrify 40,000 Cub fans like no one before him or since. Besides the eight featured games, the collection offers extras like video snippets from the careers of Ernie Banks, Ron Santo and Billy Williams, and grainy telecast footage of the last two outs of Kenny Holtzman’s no-hitter against the Braves. I thought each of those was entertaining. So, too, was hearing Jack Brickhouse and Harry Caray doing play-by-play in the older games. My bottom line: Though the idea of presenting historic Cub games in their entirety sounds worthwhile, it makes for a lot of boring viewing and lots of leaning on the scan button. Even at $39.98—half of what A&E was selling the collection for originally—it’s just not worth the cost. Of course, if A&E could bundle this with a Shannon Tweed film retrospective, they might have something. Cubnut’s rating: 1 1/2 pairs of oversized Harry Caray glasses out of 4. Rob G’s rating: 3 pairs of oversized Harry Caray glasses out of 4. Cubnut - You ignorant slut. This is good stuff (Just kidding, please don't quit). I only watched a couple of DVD's, but watching Will Clark dismantle us in the 1989 series, Kerry Wood making major league hitters look like 5 year olds on their very first little league team....Don Zimmer; you just can't beat that kind of nostalgia. Each DVD cover has a boxscore of the game plus some trivial tidbits and full play-by-play of the game which I thought were nice little touches. About the only thing I was really hoping to find, but didn't was Ryne Sandberg's Hall Of Fame induction speech (CORRECTION) looks like at least highlights of Ryno's HOF speech are somewhere on those eight discs according to the product page. The good folks though at A&E sent me a few copies as promotional items and we'll be using them as giveaways including part of the prize for our preseason contest. But while it's up to you guys if you thinks it's worth buying, it's certainly a good gift to get a diehard Cubs fan you may know or something you might request as birthday, Father's Day or Christmas gift.
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Comments

that's "you ignorant, misguided slut..."

Forty dollars is a really low price for what you're getting. I'm going to buy this box set ipso facto.

No doubt, Carlos. $40 for eight DVDs is very fair. Just ordered mine through A&E. Thanks for pointing this out, Cubnut...

Not a bad price, but strange game selection. Hawk hitting three HRs and D-Lee going 5-5, but not a single game from 2003!?

Let me ellaborate on my comment.

For a lover of irrelevant details like me, the prospect of seeing scrubs like Kevin Orie, Jeff Blausser, Henry Friggin Rodriguez and Sandy Martinez (!) behind Kerry during that 20 strikeout game is thrilling.

Seeing Ryne (a Cub great I didn't get to chance to fully enjoy in Cubbie Blue) hit two homeruns off HOF Bruce Sutter and have seven RBIs in a game is as thrilling as anything for a young fan like me that has seen the highlights of the game oncer or twice in his life, but not ever the whole game.

Also, I think you're being a little unfair with the way you think we remember games. There are some of us that remember every single thing about them -- the narration, the look of the stadium or even the back and forth in scoring, not just specific moments that make the games more memorable.

By the way, the box score has a myriad of bonus features, including:

* Billy Williams Day Speech to Wrigley Fans
* Hall of Fame Speech Highlights: Harry Caray, Ryne Sandberg
* Ernie Banks: MLB All-Century Team Member
* Rare Ernie Banks Postgame Interview on 500th HR
* Ernie Banks 500th HR
* Wrigley Field Highlights: Billy Williams, Ron Santo
* Last 2 Outs of Ken Holtzman’s No Hitter
* Dunston, Sandberg, Dawson 1990 All-Star Game Intros at Wrigley Field
* Aramis Ramirez Hits 3 HR in a game twice in 2004
* Cubs Clinch 1984 NL East Title
* Cubs Clinch 1989 NL East Title
* Cubs Clinch 2003 NL Central Title (!)

For the spelling Nazis out there:

Oncer = once.

Rob's reference to the pre-season contest reminded me of its existence. Wow, did I have no clue. You'd think I was the quiet laundry.

Combined HR Lee/Ramirez/Soriano: ok some injuries but we're just shy of half the season and they have 35. If they get to my guess of 109 they should have quite the second half and far better than my guess of 83 wins (one of the few I'm on pace to be close along with a second place division finish).

Some other laughable predictions: Most appearances in the 2-hole: Murton (or as Pat Hughes says MurTTTon), the 8-hole: Izturis.

HR + SB for the Fonz: despite his current streak he has a total of 25, compared to my prediction of 74. Most appearances? The leader is Wuertz, followed by Dempster and Howry (I said Eyre).

Guess I'll have to fork out the $40 or believe CubNut that it isn't worth it.

Don't forget Paul Noce. He was also a sight to behold.

Glad you found the review of interest. It is a really well produced set and as you note, there are more bonus features than I listed.

It just seems to me like they could have edited these 8 discs down to one or two and still provided a nice combination of great moments and enough game footage to give you a feeling for the fabric of the day and time, as you describe.

In that same "preseason contest" thread, I found this.

"according to ESPN’s transaction page…

Cubs made offer to Schmidt 3/44"

Vintage Crunch. Good ol' days.

Me want one!!!

The game I want on DVD is:

Phillies at Cubs - May 17, 1979

The game I want on DVD is:

Phillies at Cubs - May 17, 1979

AZ Phil... half of us were not born yet... :)

5/17/79--was that the 18-16 game?

23-22 Mike Schimdt 4 HRs?

before you buy that DVD Carlos, pay up your wager money!!!

23-22 Game.

I remember seeing the end coming home from school.

Cubs came back from two 8-run defecits I believe in that game.

Good call AZ Phil.

I would also like to see 1989 Cub Astros game where Cubs came back from 9-1 I believe to win on Dwight Smith single.

"before you buy that DVD Carlos, pay up your wager money!!!"

Those payments go hand in hand, told ya.

If 6/23/84 is the Sandberg game the 5/17/79 would have to be the Schmidt game.

And that Schmidt deserved all of his 3/44

Chad-
Ah yes, same sucky pitcher who blew both.

;-)

Also the Cub celebration after 1984 Division winner in the clubhouse would be great with Harry in the clubhouse drinking beer and Lee Smith yelling at everyone to keep the champagne "out of my 'fro!!"

well apparently I'm a moron, as Carlos posted, the Ryne Sandberg HOF speech is on there, guess I couldn't find it. It looks like it me might be an annotated version though.

Carry on...

in completely unrelated news...

http://deadspin.com/sports/propelled-forward-...

Woody Paige and ESPN being sued for sexual harrassment.

Is it bad if I'm hoping he's found guilty?

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/press_releas...

Saturday's game is at 3pm CT now. The Fox games that day will be Cubs/Brewers, Tigers/Twins or Mets/Phillies. What do you think they'll play in Los Angeles?

Mon, July 16th vs the Giants will be at 6pm CT instead of 7pn

No Rob...it's completely natural to feel that way.

They should be sued for the mere fact that Cold Pizza was on the air in the first place.

Hate to bring up this Kerry fella...

Good wood: Kerry Wood threw off the mound on Tuesday before the rains hit Wrigley Field, and all went well.

Wood, rehabbing from tendinitis in his right shoulder, threw 18 pitches off the mound.

"So far, so good," he said.

Yea Rob.. I heard the bullpen session got cut short because of the rain. Well, not quite. It got cut short because Woody's house was flooding and he had to go home.

Only Kerry Wood would have his first bullpen session interrupted because his basement was flooding. Lets hope he didn't slip on the wet side walk.

I think it's safe to say that the worst of over for Kerry. Should be smooth sailing from here on out. I mean, common on, what more could happen? *Knock on him*.

I'm really pulling for him, though.

*Knock on him* :)

I just saw this DVD pack today for the first time near the entrance to Best Buy. They had it priced $60. Netflix has it I see. Search 'Chicago Cubs'

are these games complete? or ESPN classic-style "lets skip ahead" type games?

i will buy the hell outta this if its complete.

They're complete, dude. You can get them for about $40 on Amazon.

–5/6/98, Cubs vs. Astros, Kerry Wood’s 20 Ks

in my netflix queue and hopefully here within the next 2 days...heh.

thnx.

yeah, they're complete games, no commercials (duh), and you can hit the next button on your DVD and skip to each half inning which was nice when watching the Kerry Wood game.

Who does the broadcast for the Kerry Wood game? I purchased it from Mlb.com a while back, but it turned out to be an away broadcast. That was lame.

oh no way joe...that sucks. i almost bought that.

the wgn broadcast was so legend they replayed the game the same night. not that the call was the attraction, the kid was...still, i'd definately want the WGN call of the game.

it was chip and steve I believe...

so far the only other game I watched was the '89 NLCS and it was Bob Costas and some color guy I can't remember.

Im watching the dawson 3 hr game, just to Harry.

I have a tear in my eye.

hear harry

Gary Sheffield vs Rickey Henderson? who wins the battle of the best press soundbites?

from Gary on his reduced suspension from 3 to 2 games:
"It just goes to show you it wasn't true and how corrupt the umpiring system is," Sheffield said Thursday. "They can make a statement and that means it's true. And so it has to go all the way to the commissioner's office, just because it has to go to a higher power, I guess, and that means it's true."

"I challenged him and asked him, 'Was my situation was worse than Paul Lo Duca's?"' Sheffield said. "He said it was the same. I didn't throw stuff on the field. When you hear reasoning like that, you know it's a joke."

Cool. That makes it worth it. When watching mine, I couldn't help thinking the whole time that it would be much more exciting to hear the home broadcast. For much of the game they were just as excited about the other pitcher (who also pitched a hell of a game).

I wouldn't recommend it, Crunch...if there's this other option now available.

Now that I remember it, I sent MLB.com a message requesting a home broadcast instead, but they never responded.

Jesus christ Jerry Mumphery is batting 5th.

How did dawson see a pitch?

Hey Miss America just dropped by in the booth, and all you can hear is Harry trying to molest her.

I miss Harry

Also in 20k game, Stone is excited about Wood's curve in the game.

Flash forward 5 years later.

One last thought, if we really want to geek this up in the off season do a parachat with one of the games with designated time for everyone who owns the DVD.

I will go back to my mom's basement now.

GO buy it now!!!!!111

That WOULD be geeky...I'm in.

My God Jacos! What kind of geek do you take...oh, I'm in.

BWRAK! WHAT JOE SAID

that's len kasper geeky...approved!

Chad and I are of one mind...

Jacos, I'm in.

I'll go back to playing Pursue the Pennant with Len, now.

only if I get to wear my authentic Gandolf the Grey robe during the game...

"Who does the broadcast for the Kerry Wood game? I purchased it from Mlb.com a while back, but it turned out to be an away broadcast. That was lame."

Yeah, I downloaded that one, too.It was pretty annoying how they were fellating Shane Reynolds a lot more than they should've. I have the game on VHS from the WGN replay but none of my three VHS recorders/players will play it.

Ah, I still remember the afternoon of Wood's 20 strikeout game. One of the best things I've ever watched live.

Why the hell isnt Game 5 of the 2003 NLDS on there?
I mean it was there 1st time they won a playoff series since Teddy Roosevelt was President. I would also put Game 1 of that series and Game 3 of the NLCS over the Dawson HR game, The 89 NLCS game, and the 5 for 5 Lee game.

lotta people at the dodger/dbacks game, including dusty.

before the rumors get outta control, rod beck's funeral was today.

honestly, wish i could just buy the wood game...but hell, if theyre gonna put out multi-DVD releases of complete games and price it this reasonably...i'll consume.

Capitalist.

i dont have much of a choice but to be a capitalist...its how things work here unless i wanna be a crook. hehe.

being intelligent about how i use my leisure dollars and who they support, though...

I had videotaped the ESPN classic game of the Cubs/Phillies slugfest from 79. It was cool to see King Kong jack two out onto Waveland. I believe he also whiffed a few times. Another part of the tape showed a Phillie (I think Maddox) rounding third and his helmet pops off revealing huge helmet hair (70's style)...classic. Not many fans in the stands and the grass had faded soccer lines in it (Chicago Sting?). In the end - Cubs lost. Cub pitchers included Dennis Lamp, Willie Hernandez and Sutter.

My bad the 98 1 game playoff should be in their before the Maddux 300 game win. That game pissed me off on why the F we let him go for Jose Jose Guzman, Randy Myers, and other crap.

maybe there's a second set coming?

Some of it might depend on rights issues as well as in who owns the broadcasts.

Lawyers ruin everything (no offense to the lawyers who are reading).

im still waiting on the Adventures of Pete and Pete season 3 dvd collection...which we may never see.

greenlighted, box art completed and released to public...enter the corporate ninjas...parmount sells their DVD distribution division, which was also releasing the P/P DVDs....oddly, or not, parmount also owns P/P (well, nickelodeon owns it, which is owned by viacom, which owns paramount...blah blah).

any way you cut this clusterf**k has pretty much killed a dvd collection that had enough sales and support to warrant its release.

Old Nickelodeon series FTW. I'm waiting for All That, Shelby Woo, Hey Arnold (my favorite), et al.

I agree that the selection could have been better, but I will probably pick up the set -- which means MLB is smart, since the rest of the games mentioned will probably be in set #2.

Also, I like the idea of having the complete games. Don't care for sliced up games.

Glowacki, check your e-mail. I'm no longer morose.

only if I get to wear my authentic Gandolf the Grey robe during the game…
_______________________________________________

Only if you show us pictures of your staff!

I'd be in on the DVD/parachat thing.

Of course I tried to mean debt-ridden when I said "morose." My Spanish roots betrayed me -- "morose" means "in debt" in Spanish.

I'm still waiting for The Tick.

Carlos Rubi — June 28, 2007 @ 5:41 pm
Of course I tried to mean debt-ridden when I said “morose.” My Spanish roots betrayed me — “morose” means “in debt” in Spanish.

===========================

CARLOS: I don't think too many people here realize that English is not your first language.

You speak English VERY well, my friend. You are doing great.

I still remember the time here at TCR when you gently corrected me on the correct spelling of the word "cojones." (I spelled it "cajones," which means drawers).

The Biz of Baseball looks at the main possibilities of teams who could buy the Cubs.

I still really don't get the idea that people like Cuban "don't have the personality" that MLB wants. The Trib is legally required to sell to the highest bidder. I am not sure how MLB has much say in it.

That's an interesting question actually. Who here besides Carlos and I don't have English as their native language? Mine is French.

I don't know what Phil is talking about. Carlos, I ain't able to understand a damn word you say:)

My native language is Thai. Pom poot pasa-Thai.

Who here besides Carlos and I don’t have English as their native language?

My native language is ig-pay atin-lay

Your native language is hippy talk because you like freegans dave.

Your native language is hippy talk because you like freegans dave.

haha... is there any way that i can get the cubs dvd box set for free?

sorry... that should have said:

dude, is there anyway that i can get the dvd box set bro? for free? or I will trade you for some mushrooms...

peace, dave

Dave,

Trib has already sold to the highest bidder, haven't they? This Zell character. It's now basically Zell's show to sell the Cubs although I think Trib still has a hand in it.

mlb owners have to approve other owners.

one owner in particular...across town...has nothing resembling respect or love for cuban.

Hmmm Rob - that may be true. I have heard elsewhere that they are legally required to sell to the highest bidder. isn't the new ownership arrangement of the trib company employee held? i thought it is zell and the employees. which would mean that "they" (zell and the trib) would have to see to the highest bidder.

bulls take joakim noah... if anyone cares.

mlb owners have to approve other owners.

sure... but have they ever denied an owner that a team wanted to sell to? and mlb cannot force an owner to sell for less money, can they?

yeah, well it doesn't have to be unanimous and most of the owners are businessman who just want to maximize their money intake.

That being said, Cuban would have to hitch his wagon onto someone a little more "owner-friendly" imo to get a shot.

and oh yea... the bulls are going to change their name to the "chicago hair" now.

http://mvn.com/mlb-cubs/?comments_popup=893#c...

One of our readers knows a bit about the Canning family and stuff, worth a read if you missed it.

great, Bulls get another post player who can't score. Woo.

sadly Bill Simmons had the most optimistic take on the Bulls pick. They can trade Wallace's contract now for a big money player who can actually score a basket.

Wow, if I wasn't already not a Bulls fan, the Joakim signing would certainly drive me there. I couldn't bear to watch him on a consistent basis.

Rob,

I hope that is the point of taking Noah. Minnesota wants to dump Garnett bad. Offer Gordon, Duhon, Wallace, Thomas and the 08 1st pick for him for him and one of the backup PG's for him.

Joakim Noah

Check out the "tux" and hair-

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/0706...

The comedy value with him and Scott Skiles as coach is well worth the pick.

If you missed it, this is the interview with John McDonough. Talks about Jones, etc.

http://www.670thescore.com/episode_download.p...

McDonough: "Have to give Jim Hendry some credit for all his free agent signings. They're all doing well."

*cough* *cough* Cotts *cough*

Excuse me.

Um, Rynox....Cotts *cough* wasn't a free agent signing.

Hahaha... duh me.

Cotts was a trade, not a signing

Cotts was a trade, not a signing

Kevin:

Schmidt 3/44.

Hey Phil, thanks for the kind words :) you're certainly a man with cajones.

Why trade Tyrus Thomas? Gordon, Duhon, Wallace and a #1 in 2008 is a lot anyway, even for KG.
How ready is Noah to step in and start? So next season the Bulls would be:
PG Kirk Hinrich
SG Sefolosha?
SF Luol Deng
PF Kevin Garnett
C Joakim Noah?

With a bench of Aaron Gray, JamesOn Curry, Khryapa,Nocioni, Adrian Griffin, and PJ Brown and or Sweetney?

Let's not gut the team for a "superstar." I like KG, and he's a great player, but is he worth all that?

Odds on Noah throwing out the first pitch of a game within the next week? I say 80%

at some point I hope the Bulls realize what league they're playing in and what an abomination the 2003-2004 Pistons were. Go use all this depth you've created and land a crunch-time scorer.

and they would have got crushed in the 1st round this year if Wade was healthy.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/weblog/2...

Bradley to the Padres definitively taking them out of the Jones "sweepstakes".

JJ the most expensive 5th outfielder in baseball?

Hey, I don't know if anyone noticed, but the Brewers didn't win yesterday.

Some of those Padres fans sound despondent. I'd be happy to have Bradley on my team.

Either did we.

When Seattle was in town recently, I asked Ichiro, through a Japanese reporter, if he'd be interested in spending some quality time at Wrigley Field (with the Cubs). The reporter told me Ichiro said he loves Wrigley Field, but thought the fans were a little too rough. In all probability he'll stay in Seattle.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sport...

Genius call, Chad. I'll up that to 95%.

Completely agree, Rob. I think you had to take Noah because he was the best player available and that's what you do with a high lottery pick. Going for need that high means you might do something stupid like pass up Chris Paul for Marvin Williams (HA!!). They may not need to trade Noah per se, he is the tallest player on the Bulls now and he was unquestionably a HUGE factor on arguably on of the top 5 college basketball teams of all time. My point being, Noah has loads of talent, but they do need a scorer in a major way. They should trade to get that scorer, but there's no reason Noah should automatically be part of that transaction.

Not that you said he should, Rob.

I've seen that '71 World Series clip. The game ends-an afternoon, weekend World Series game, and Gowdy goes:"Thats it the Pittsburgh Pirates are your 1971 World Champs, thanks for watching NBC sports"...Gotta love the no hoopla-definetely Old School...

Of course the Cubs traded Billy Hatcher to get Jerry Mumphrey. Hatcher went on to have an outstanding 1990 World Series playing for Lou...

Padres picked up Milton Bradley, eliminating the need for Jock Jones...

Man am I psyched about this Brewers series.

OK all..this is a little off topic, but that's never stopped me before.

Craig Biggio just got his 3000th hit, and what a great accompolishment for him, He is truly among the best players of the 1990's, and a solid player throughout his career.

Is he better than Sandberg? I say it's very, very close...taking into account only Biggio's stats as a 2B.

Biggio:
7596 AB 2177 H 487 2B, 44 3B, 221 HR, 863 RBI, .287/.375/.450, 4 Gold Gloves, 7 time All-Star

Sandberg:
7801 AB, 2225 H, 377 2B, 71 3B, 277 HR, 1007 RBI, .285/.346/.458, 9 Gold Gloves, 10 time All-star

What do you think??

Either Biggio is a HOFer because Sandberg is, or isn't a HOFer because Whittaker isn't. I guess it depends on how many media cocks he's sucked over the years. The fact that people still debate Frank Thomas is proof enough of that.

In my book Biggio is as good as Sandberg. He was never as much of a pure offensive threat but being that good for that long says something.

I think Biggio is a HOFer. He and Sandberg are pretty darn close as players. Biggio might have been a little better hitter, but Sandberg had a superior glove. Both had a stretch of about 7 or 8 years when they were really really good.

Ryno = lifetime EqA of .283 and WARP3 of 112.7 in 2164 games

Biggio = lifetime EqA of .286 and WARP3 of 124.8 in 2780 games

Basically I think Biggio could have called it quits about 4 or 5 years ago, as he hasn't really been all that great for the past couple years. That's the main reason for the higher WARP I think.

I don't think much of the 3000 hits. Good for Biggio I guess. Anything that Ted Williams doesn't have can't possibly count for that much. Juan Pierre showed us last year how truly meaningless leading the league in hits can be.

Dusty Baylor:
Looks like the stats say Sandberg is better, and so does my gut (admittedly biased, of course).

Sandberg had better power, especially considering he played in a less power friendly era for the most part. He also had a better glove, as evidenced by the 9 GGs.

I think 3000 hits gets you a pass to the HoF, but Sandberg was definitely a better second baseman.

By the way, Gold Gloves and All Star appearances should not be used as criteria for HOF eligibility. WAY too subjective and often quite meaningless.

For the record, Lou Whittaker -

Lifetime eqa of .292 and WARP3 of 124.1 in 2390 games.

15 of 515 votes (under 3 percent) and dropped from Hall ballot in first year. One of the great crimes in HOF voting.

And unlike Sandberg and Biggio, has a WS ring. Not the be-all end-all but a significant point.

Biggio should be a no-brainer HOF'er like Sandberg should have been one. He played C, 2b, CF, one of the best leadoff men of his time and played a substantial portion of his best years in the Astrodome.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php...

Premium article but apparently Samardzija and Veal make Goldstein's All-Disappointment Team.

As much as I like Sandberg, I think Biggio has the edge based on the length of his career and the fact that he was able to sustain his excellence. Sandberg had more power, and was perhaps better defensively, but Biggio has had an amazing career. He should be a no-brainer Hall of Famer and, for those that care about such things, a first ballot electee. He is clearly one of the ten best second basemen of all time.

Biggio's peak performance is of course nothing to sneeze at either, and compares very favorably to Sandberg.

Sandberg's top ten OPS+ years: 145, 141, 139, 137, 135, 131, 110, 108, 105, 98. Average of those ten years: 124.9

Biggio's: 143, 141, 139, 138, 130, 118, 117, 114, 112, 112 (with full seasons of 107 and 106 in addition to those ten). Average of those ten years: 126.4

"By the way, Gold Gloves and All Star appearances should not be used as criteria for HOF eligibility. WAY too subjective and often quite meaningless."

Actually the idea of a Hall of Fame and how you get in is 100% subjective. So those can and do count. You're popularity with fans is an important criteria when considering this.

Also, Biggio is a HOF. 3000 hits = hall of fame. He's not the greatest HOFer but he's good enough.

Biggio is the worst 3,000 hit hitter ever.

I know I have posted this before, but I can't remember a season where he would be a top ten hitter in a MLB season.

He's a cock roach that made it to 3,000 hits, that being said he should be a Hall of Famer.

Horatio-
Great point on Juan Pierre.

nothing wrong with being the worst 3,000 hitter ever imo....

What happened to my post?

Chad — June 28, 2007 @ 10:45 pm
Odds on Noah throwing out the first pitch of a game within the next week? I say 80%
........................................................................

Odds that he is wearing something ridiculous when he does? 94.7% is the early line.

Sandberg and Biggio are both in the top 10 of all-time second basemen. But Santo's in the top 10 of the all-time thirdbasemen (actually top 7-8) ... a lot of good that's done him.

Silent Towel said Santo's not a Hall of Famer, so that should be good enough for everyone. Lord help Biggio if he fails the Towel test. End o' subject.

Lord help Biggio if he fails the Towel test.

Not really... the Towel is rarely correct on any of his predictions, so Biggio's best best is for Silent Towel to assert that Biggio will never be in the HOF.

I've got my own personal collection of Cub videos. I have the '84, '89, & '03 celebrations, the '98 playoff game. I have the '83 Cub highlights, The '84 highlights, the '60 no-hitter by Cardwell (last 2 full innnings). I also have a neat little show called Cubby awards, highlighting the '89 team. Hosted by Dan Roan & Bozo!

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